asciilifeform: phf: it would be absolutely trivial to send blocks in a sane way to compatible clients. 'embrace & extend' protocol

asciilifeform: it will snap shut, and a new set will be born

asciilifeform: if the miners want to march into a usg mousetrap, no problem

asciilifeform: phf: in case you missed it, my nodes are not stuck

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu suggested at least one alternate scheme, iirc

asciilifeform: the current one mostly works. if sufficiently abused, and folks with actual stake in the matter get sufficiently annoyed, another one will be used

asciilifeform: there are 1,001 possible ways to queue up transactions for miners to choose from

asciilifeform: think of it this way - the mempool isn't, by the same token, really 'part of bitcoin' either

asciilifeform: it was just a piece of shit stuck to the skin, not a tumour

asciilifeform: hence it was not part of 'bitcoin' at all.

asciilifeform: while remaining compatible

asciilifeform: i shot that problem in the head

asciilifeform: i still utterly fail to see what is so wrong with classic bitcoin

asciilifeform: decimation: in what sense would that look like 'bitcoin' at all ?

asciilifeform: hence 'jam tomorrow'

asciilifeform: decimation: re: the orphanages, if you have them at all, what you're doing is 'i'll store this piece of shit on your say-so, and MAYBE it will be shown to be a valid block (rx) later'

asciilifeform: decimation: it is as doomed as the cartoon wolf who walks off the cliff and does not necessarily notice - at first

asciilifeform: there is NO circumventing this, because ultimately it is a thermodynamic law

asciilifeform: in NO possible universe does this lead to anything but grief

asciilifeform: there is a basic principle which applies equally to the 'orphanage' discussions and to today's ddos thread: NEVER give derps something valuable just for showing up

asciilifeform: iirc he still thinks that ip as it exists now can be entirely abstracted over, and that the spec ought not mention details like packets

asciilifeform: again, it wasn't in mircea_popescu's spec ☟︎

asciilifeform: ~i~ mentioned it ☟︎

asciilifeform: payload (incl. the signature) is in the crypted blob ☟︎

asciilifeform: decimation: attacker cannot glean identity from an rsa-encrypted packet sent to a known public key

asciilifeform: generally speaking, your machine - to an attacker lacking the keys - must look exactly like an empty wall socket to the enemy.

asciilifeform: it is the one and only pill against ddos

asciilifeform: but the aspect i'd like to emphasize - one which mircea_popescu thought to be an optional frill and did not include in his spec - is the single-packet authentication.

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: gossip net is rather more like anarchist 'cells' than anything else.

asciilifeform: decimation: this is rather like saying 'proposed something like a chair, except that it flies through space and takes pictures'

asciilifeform: or even to remain the same from day to day

asciilifeform: and since we aren't a usg wankatron like tor, there is no reason for all of the 'gates' to be publicly advertised

asciilifeform: approximately

asciilifeform: why is there only one gate ?

asciilifeform: jurov: the point is that the million wolves are, in your example, all lining up at one gate

asciilifeform: can build on anything you like

asciilifeform: wolf gets to stay in the forest, outside city walls

asciilifeform: a network that a wotless wolf cannot even connect to in any meaningful sense.

asciilifeform: jurov: understand that the solution has to be deployed as a network, rather than in one point

asciilifeform: the only thing you need the fast logic for is to mux/demux to the processing pipes

asciilifeform: jurov: checking sigs parallelizes linearly

asciilifeform: rather than hll synthesis

asciilifeform: probably needs to be designed the old-fashioned way, to get real performance

asciilifeform: decimation: wouldn't go that far

asciilifeform: none of this is an open problem in any sense

asciilifeform: what it means is, designed for the occasion

asciilifeform: jurov: recall what asic means

asciilifeform: with asic

asciilifeform: jurov: aha. and you check them at line speed.

asciilifeform: 'mother taught me never to speak with strangers' (tm) (r)

asciilifeform: decimation: wot routing

asciilifeform: the heroic bandwidths are, imho, unnecessary - the only thing it needs to do extremely quickly is to reject enemy garbage

asciilifeform: jurov: asic

asciilifeform: this is also why every packet is rsa-encrypted to the destination's pubkey.

asciilifeform: at all levels, too.

asciilifeform: or no route.

asciilifeform: SIGNATURE IN EVERY MOTHERFUCKING PACKET ☟︎

asciilifeform: ^ and for other reasons.

asciilifeform: a stateful solution is ipso facto a wrong solution.

asciilifeform: jurov: that part's easy.

asciilifeform: have fun with tx fees and hour-long confirmations for packet

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: (iirc one of us suggested this experiment nearly a year ago, but noted that the proper whitehouse oughta be used)

asciilifeform: so why did mircea_popescu clobber a random derp site ?

asciilifeform: decimation: i think so

asciilifeform: this re: http://trilema.com/2015/the-lulz-of-today-or-you-think-its-only-some-kids-that-will-exhaust-their-resources-soon

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu whitehouse .org ?! iirc that was a parody site...

asciilifeform: unix patch util is diagnosably retarded, we knew this

asciilifeform: possibly ought to be a shell script rather than patch.

asciilifeform: i'm still not entirely grasping how all of this came about

asciilifeform: wai wat

asciilifeform: (what kind of imbecile thought that this was appropriate ?!)

asciilifeform: which pissed me off

asciilifeform: it removes files by shitting out the whole file as a minus sign delta

asciilifeform: ah i recall

asciilifeform: hm

asciilifeform: this is all in the logz.

asciilifeform: mod6: iirc patch cannot remove dirs. which is why i wrote 'chicken' the way i did

asciilifeform: i've been waiting to hear somebody describe ~some~, even very theoretical, down side for those ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206294 << share plz ☝︎

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://cryptome.org/2015/07/1-7B-anonymous-comments.htm << lulzy re: 'reddit' et al

asciilifeform: made largely by hand, in ragtag workshops

asciilifeform: japan was supplying 'cartel-breaking' edisonian bulbs, to the great annoyance of cartel, in the '30s iirc

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you recall the philips cartel? the history of 'squeeze the third world out of light bulbs' is almost a century long !

asciilifeform: so only so much of it in there, at one time.

asciilifeform: it's a decay daughter

asciilifeform: but it was spent. (how? homeland severity! neutron detectors at border checkpoints, $maxint)

asciilifeform: until recently - helium was a u.s. monopoly

asciilifeform: usa is poor in rare earths

asciilifeform: the white led has got to be an asian revenge for the ccfl though

asciilifeform: full of rare earths

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and when they gear up to blow the glass, fill it up? time for white led

asciilifeform: 'envirowhinerism: expensive, shoddy, deadly.' -- uncle al

asciilifeform: can

asciilifeform: ^ nah, that was quite a bit more like the fuel cna

asciilifeform learned that he still has the pieces of that thing, in a box, somewhere

asciilifeform: like that chinese flashlight, with micro and eeprom

asciilifeform: make it seem inevitable, wholesome, capitalistic.

asciilifeform: normally they find some way to 'market-wash' the suck