log☇︎
15600+ entries in 0.098s
asciilifeform: i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc )
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 01:00 asciilifeform: the ultimate win would be to get something other than gnat ( say, an adatron implemented in cl... ) that can build something resembling a working gnat. but sadly i suspect this is yrs away.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 16:12 mircea_popescu: i'd rather write a new ada.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894658 << there is not , in long term, any escape from 'write a new ada' (at the very least, even if there were no known gnat bugs -- and i've already found at least 1 -- on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892591 ). ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: "we wanna fight mommy just a bit so she thinks more of us, not so she gets the fuck lost and we start our own household"
mircea_popescu: there can never be such a thing as an ada machine.
mircea_popescu: #trilema, never a dull moment.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather write a new ada. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: diana_coman or rather, "how to a) kill something b) in a manner that's guaranteed to work".
mircea_popescu: shinohai just because a buncha kids take 2-3 ppm of hash and play with it, by cutting it into as many various boxes with labels on them (which are now "things" dontchaknow) as the square of the kiddypool headcount mean nothing. that's how industry works, back when the parents were atthe foundry making nails, kiddies had bits and segments of nails in all the pockets to play with.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 -> sadly I must say that I failed to find a way to terminate the program if/when one of the tasks is just looping infinitely ; I tried: abort of the looping task -> nothing,because task is "not in an abortable region"; Abort_Task(Current_Task) from the main program -> still stuck because apparently it takes it to mean "will stop AFTER all my dependent tasks stopped too!"; raising an uncaught except ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: that'd be back before they started folding left and right like cockroaches, on the slightest of pressures, each and all of them discovering they'd much rather be "media personalities" with a side-job of dishwasher than practically anything else.
mircea_popescu: anyone even recall this, btw, back when "people themselves" were gonna somehow UGC into existence the dawn of a new world ?
mircea_popescu: and should we discover that, suddenly all the early, romantic era preaching about inflation being bad ~per se~ will need to somehow be adjusted into "inflation bad because a) market-impredictable and b) government-arbitrary", and a lot of pointing out that "systems with preknown and immutable inflation are exactly equivalent to systems with no inflation", "because in functional analysis all constants are equally C" or somesuc
shinohai: "Cloudy with a chance of packeting" -freenode
asciilifeform: it will have to , unless somebody has a surprise up his sleeve
asciilifeform: imho yes. it's a c proggy, but a very small 1 -- <100kb src.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-09 20:15 mircea_popescu: in short -- i don't merely wish to import x and then end up in bullshit "kde vs gnome" faux "dilemma"s of the femstate ilk. i wish to import x in such a way as to have a sane stack. which is why i wanna saddle phf with it.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894579 << i had a half-baked effort to read & genesis 'ratpoison' -- but currently nfi if anyone aside from asciilifeform uses or even wants to use it. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, i see today a light log day also...
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:45 phf: it still works though when xterm is asking you for password because xterm doesn't know it's a password entry, and doesn't do a grab
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:44 phf: if you simply load an x app, attach it to root, and start grabbing all the events then you can come to same conclusion as any random chick with a blog "omg all teh events"
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:36 phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh)
mircea_popescu: in short -- i don't merely wish to import x and then end up in bullshit "kde vs gnome" faux "dilemma"s of the femstate ilk. i wish to import x in such a way as to have a sane stack. which is why i wanna saddle phf with it. ☟︎
asciilifeform: gl was a++ for this.
asciilifeform: there was a scene where you open sarcophagus with mummy, and monologue to it, and end up with hint
trinque: it'd be appropriate for someone to see what ebuilds are actually required for a sensible x11, and to make a vpatch containing them
asciilifeform: then that's a yes
mircea_popescu: a, btw... are we also putting an x on this thing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct, it's a 2-step process, first gotta find what yer iron actually needs re kernelisms
asciilifeform: ( change all yer 'M' to a 'Y' .. ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: wonder if there's a 'firefox' for irix..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was making a 2014 point, see. that portion of it meanwhile obsolete.
mircea_popescu: THOUGH, in fairness, the genuine ubuntu very much fucking would, http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/#selection-149.127-149.158 and all that.
mircea_popescu: trinque "it's a test of musl" in the sense that if something breaks it'll likely be that, not reasonable to expect that because you took out whatever solitaire version gets bundled with gentoobuntu then therefore your build crashes.
trinque: the genesis.vpatch is also human-sized, does not contain everything that was in gentoo portage. it contains only what is necessary to have a booting system.
trinque: yes, snapshot-and-fork of a musl-gentoo, but particularly that the snapshotting produces a genesis.vpatch
asciilifeform: really it's primarily a test of muslism
mircea_popescu: but in any case, can start talking of a much better trb sitting.
mircea_popescu: tbh this thing is moving along quite prettily ; once we've had eulora and phuctor run on it for a few months we'll know whether it's stable or not and if not what to fix.
asciilifeform: i'ma prepare a pilot box on desk for cuntooism and reproduction of pg etc
asciilifeform: phuctor is actually due for a redisking , for expanded space, would like to combine this with encuntooation, once we establish that pg runs
trinque: it'd be a decent intro to what's linux
trinque: reading the logs since I departed, seems like it'd be helpful to do another post (after a bunch of sig verifications) where I do a literate version of the script ☟︎
mircea_popescu: needs to diffuse a little more, it seems.
mircea_popescu: i don't even agree, fwiw. i'm not about to saddle you with a "now you gotta maintain magic gentoo" task.
trinque: when an ISO is cut, it will come with a corresponding ISO-cutter ebuild.
mircea_popescu: actually, a completely curl-tomated mp-wp interaction thingee would be a great addition to mp-wp itself, imo.
mircea_popescu: prolly need a coupla cookies and the exact path of wp-admin/blabla
mircea_popescu: well, put something like httpfox on a browser or w/e you use for that, BingoBoingo can set you up a test acct on their shared environment, and you can capture the request it makes and use that in the future.
shinohai: Well I often find myself using box with no X server, is there a way to say make curl request or something that would paste into web box?
mircea_popescu: though honestly, if i wanted to vim-face mp-wp, i'd put a vimterface on ~mysql~ directly, rather than the wp wrapper.
mircea_popescu: shinohai shouldn't you have a comment section or something ?
mircea_popescu: you know, you're failing to keep up! there's been at least a coupla more items hence!
mircea_popescu: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/dpb-removed-from-republican-rss-roll.html << lol, check out the skeptical/aloof/pardoy/etcetera, theological discussions, #trilema-from-a-distance, what have you.
shinohai: I wish ... would like to have a barn full of the AMD boards, not the most powerful in the world but run really great, even with own gentoo recipe.
shinohai: Yeah, I haven't a rk yet to try, that may come in few weeks
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Rather than a rk, shinohai cuntoo'd and AMD E-300 (AMD 64) laptop
mircea_popescu: a yes, preparatory phases yet. alright.
mircea_popescu: ok so basically so far the situation's that shinohai managed to get trinque's sig to match on a rk but not an intel lappy, while diana_coman mod6 hanbot failed to get it to match on a diverse set of items (laptop, desktop, racked box).
mod6: like i said, i'll stfu, and write up a post, will include my kernconf.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-03 17:19 trinque: diana_coman: might I get a tarball of your cuntoo build directory's present state?
shinohai: mircea_popescu: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/cuntoo-a-linux-that-sucks-less.html <<< I will mention that the USB version won't boot yet, only useful as chroot device.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the 9000 headaches of folx who tried to build pre-rotor trb ? asciilifeform did not resort to 'and now run this 4 hour script that builds a gcc, and then builds with it a gcc, and ~then~ builds deps, and ~then~ trb' just to make life moar interesting.
mircea_popescu: mod6 as a rule of thumb, a thing whatever it may be that took over a coupla hours of your time's ripe for blog article by the very nature of life expectancy.
mod6: anyway, I apologize for not reporting sooner, just thought that I could emerge victorious one of these attempts. I'll stfu and go to work on a blog with more deets.
mod6: i should also mention that shinohai's working cuntoo is a APU box - not intel.
mircea_popescu: good thing it has a name.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem is that 'my own gentoo' is not a defined item.
mircea_popescu not about to pull a stink about it in the instant case, obviously. but the general config still is "wtf, can't use my own gentoo for this, gotta use apple's cable ?"
mod6: on the bright side, i thought that my inital new SSD i ordered for cuntoo was just bad in some way, so i went and bought another. so now i have a spare :]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's not my fossil gentoo outside of the sense I plucked it out of the wild for a lack of anything else
mod6: i've actually been lucky enough to have shinohai's ear this whole time too, who actually has a working cuntoo.
mod6: i'll go to work on a blog post, this weekend. will try to capture all the details.
asciilifeform: rright , but this apparently requires a working fossilized gentoo. to reproduce at all.
asciilifeform: trinque: what's the obstacle currently in the way of a bootable cuntoo iso ?
mircea_popescu: won't be the end of the world if we manage to actually have a cuntoo in a few months.
asciilifeform: i gotta agree with mircea_popescu tho, the current recipe is very muchly 'wanna light a fire? take a stick, and yer old fire..'
mircea_popescu: "transition phase", whatever, but the point remains that if we're going to actually take the a) view then something very much like what she's looking for ("i took what looked like the tmsr official gentoo off the foundation site") should also exist.
mod6: after lastnights mis-adventure; i'm out of ideas, so I'll stop banging on it and make a post.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-09 18:24 hanbot: asciilifeform, trinque, BingoBoingo no, i'm aware. nevertheless, wanted to try getting a gentoo on first, seeing how it's in fact needed, and perhaps the general case of someone who isn't this good friends with this many experts is to be explored.
mircea_popescu: thinking about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894351 / http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894364 it seems to me that we've created this situation where at the same time a) there's no real purpose to still looking at heathen gentoo as anything more than crap but also b) there's not very clearly delineated "use this prepackaged thing" (nor is a all that clearly communicated). ☝︎☝︎
mod6: yeah, im long overdue for a blog on the thing.
mod6: and a whole bunch of slight variants trying to unfuck the thing.
mod6: it has a name, 'trb-test1', a simple gentoo box to run trb test builds.
mod6: right, i agree, so i don't think it's ~cuntoo~ per se... but imagine this. I've had gentoo running on that hardware for nearly a year since i bought it.
mod6: Anyway, I think it maybe just hates my iron for some unknown reason. Obviously, I leaving out a lot of details here, but i've tried everything, different boot loaders, minor adjustments to fstab, a working kernel, map and initrd from the working gentoo (ON THE SAME BOX)... a hand built initrd.
hanbot: asciilifeform, trinque, BingoBoingo no, i'm aware. nevertheless, wanted to try getting a gentoo on first, seeing how it's in fact needed, and perhaps the general case of someone who isn't this good friends with this many experts is to be explored. ☟︎
asciilifeform: a working cuntoo is the only path fwd for reproducible, reasonably-working unix box.
asciilifeform: i'd prefer to get the rk plant onto a working cuntoo as soon as it becomes practical.
asciilifeform: and incidentally ( achtung rk users ! ) if you are careless and allow 'emerge' to update, you will hose the machine, from that point it will whine ( about the prohibition on systemd!! ) and grind to a halt when asked to emerge anyffin
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there is of course the bottled gentoo i baked for rk; but it is also arguably a technological dead-end, and eventually oughta be replaced with arm cuntoo
asciilifeform: i'm not even certain that it's ~possible~ today to glue together a complete classical gentoo ( and if possible today -- may not be tomorrow )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: We've got disks both USB and a second missile code free 160G spinner
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as i understand, then would need a ~third~ disk for cuntoo.
BingoBoingo: Indeed. Yet I suspect doing a heathen gentoo on the spinning disk will provide a valuable point of contrast Cuntoo. There's 2 kinds of steps you can insert into a process beyond the minimum. Educative ones where you explore the space gathering experience which may be useful later. The other kind are pure friction a la SOPS.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seems like the sort of thing that can save work later. The supplied USB is a "live" image working off of a squashfs
trinque: yep, just needs a virgin disk. no need to stand up another vanilla gentoo on that disk first; the bootstrapper handles everything else.
asciilifeform: seems to me from the article that hanbot went to setup up a ~traditional~ gentoo 1st, which as i understand isn't actually needed ( machine already booted into 1 )