log☇︎
146700+ entries in 0.092s
apeloyee: sieges are generally followed by an assault, unless th3e besieged surrender; to hope otherwise is simply suicide
asciilifeform: anything short of that, is a waste of time.
asciilifeform: a serious sw relay is not physically small, cannot hide in a tree or similar.
asciilifeform: if the enemy, on account of some internal psychosis, refrains from simply breaking in and shooting, there is plenty to do
apeloyee: if the enemy is besieging you and watching you all the time, not much you can do
asciilifeform: most of the processing is local
asciilifeform: not clear that it does
apeloyee: be a true вредитель and sabotage the spy device's uplink. they need a phat one.
apeloyee: and to detect you, has to stand next ot you during transmission of significant number of bits
asciilifeform: everyone - no. the few thou known-вредители -- totally
apeloyee: the enemy doesn't realistically have resource to stand next to everyone. see bitcoin: can't make rewriting history impossible, lets make it unprofitable. ☟︎
asciilifeform: because then you're back to the 'if they're standing next to you, you're found' item.
asciilifeform: well yes, in the sense that they spend the vast majority of time, silent ☟︎
apeloyee: if they're sleeper stations.
asciilifeform: this is where i started in the gedankenexperiment. from there went 'why not to have the sequence per se be the information carrier'.
asciilifeform: ideally said movement would consist of large number of geographically-dispersed stations, taking turns in a sequence not known to the enemy.
apeloyee: (to the enemy)
apeloyee: but also hard to hear you over all that noise. hence my "there's a fixed number of bits you can transmit before detection, assuming given ratio of intended recipient capabilities to enemy capabilities"
asciilifeform: a block of flats, full of led bulbs, quite possible is the electrical equiv of a 10watt sw station
asciilifeform: also i suspect that 'avoid gestapo' is a very small superset of the much harder 'physically undetectable'. for example, if you pirate on an already unusably-polluted band, you would probably never Have Problems for so long as you are not distinguishable from the usual polluters ( e.g. led light bulbs and other filth )
apeloyee: you stipulated detector's across the street. can do direction finding.
asciilifeform: that there's the whole noise floor thing, neh.
apeloyee: an' if you keep sparking next to detector across the street, you will Have Problems. because have to transmit enough to rsa.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i'm not convinced that the problem is solvable, apeloyee may well be right. but i also remain unconvinced that it is unsolvable.
asciilifeform: 1. if you knew exactly when and where to look.
apeloyee: you have managed thus to transmit how much?
asciilifeform: go and detect the static spark i just generated. from across the room, much less street.
apeloyee: if stands across the street, will detect. forget about it.
asciilifeform: hypothetically. problem is to make a balloon stay up for any reasonable length of time, and not loudly show up on radars wherever it goes
asciilifeform: not even from standing across the street.
apeloyee: e.g.balloon tx'ing can masquerade as thunder
asciilifeform: q is whether is is possible to turn this param into the equiv of rsa key.
apeloyee: to a reasonable value, but there's probably no escape from "keep moving" ☟︎
asciilifeform: nope, but purely physical invisibilities are a-ok. as radio per se is invisible to savages who never heard of radio.
apeloyee: can just decrease the chance of detection.
asciilifeform: but my whole q was whether it is possible to do better than the 100yr state-of-the-art of 'keep moving yet transmitter and be prepared to lose it' thing
asciilifeform: re 30MHz, i could even be entirely wrong, and unusable , because e.g. <7 has vastly different propagation characteristics, day/night/winter/etc vs 7..15Mhz, and in turn from 15..30
asciilifeform: if easier to detect for enemy, easier to detect for intended recipient. and vice-versa. neh ?
asciilifeform: i dun get how the 2 items can be separate
apeloyee: 100kW transmit only logarithmically more, but detection easiness in proportional to power
apeloyee: shannon-hartley theorem. max bit per watt is when you sit far below noise floor
asciilifeform: then i'ma transmit 100kW, why not
apeloyee: and have your transmitter move, lest it be detected by correlation attacks.
asciilifeform: then they find you.
apeloyee: simpler to just transmit 1W over 30MHz. Or 100mW. etc.
asciilifeform: if any -- then objective met
apeloyee: again, I have no data, but I suspect you won't be able to encode much data into it
asciilifeform: so long as i can force the 2 ends of the line, to differ in such a way as to carry information
asciilifeform: what's to stop it from being exactly same spectrally as motor, if that's what i want ?
apeloyee: the transmitter disguised as motor
apeloyee: Do you have any data as to how distinguishable defective motors are? e.g. it's probably an impulse filtered with a min-phase filter. whereas fake motor probably won't be.
asciilifeform: ( and that few watt, spread over entire 30MHz of shortwave )
asciilifeform: reason is so that each station can be physically indistinguishable, from outside the door, from, e.g., a defective lift motor that arcs a bit ☟︎
apeloyee: no reason to only encode the signal in difference then.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: positional mod is superset of that item
asciilifeform: the difference is that the transmitters there physically move; but is immaterial for our purpose
apeloyee: didn't you describe a scheme for 1 transmitter? in each time interval, pick many cryptographically pseudo-random orthogonal waveforms, calculate a weighted sum, transmit. the weights encode information. can split into many transmitters in various places.
asciilifeform: 1 type of 'positionally modulated' radio, that is already very old tech, is satellite nav.
asciilifeform: 2 is the bare minimum for a working ( again conjectured, whether it could work ) item.
asciilifeform: 1 , transmitting below noise floor, is equally invisible, but also gives no way to receive...
apeloyee: but "1 transmitter is visible, 2 are not" i find hard to believe
apeloyee: i could understand if having 2,3, 4,... transmitters progressively lowering the detection chance
asciilifeform: ( i have presently nfi if it is true )
asciilifeform: conjecture was, that you can transmit below noise floor, and still receive by demodulating strictly positionally.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: how do you modulate-by-position if you don't have more than 1 position ?
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-04#1733014 << this immediately smells like a magical voodoo invisibility potion ☝︎
asciilifeform: while at the same time usably fast. which is the engineering tension there.
asciilifeform: and yes i am in fact allergic to any algo that i do not immediately understand, because entire objective of ffa is to be correct-via-obviousness.
asciilifeform: i'ma chew on it tho.
asciilifeform: not the crt per se, but that apeloyee's algo doesn't leak-via-timing, or bias, or avoid some class of prime, is not (yet) obvious to asciilifeform .
apeloyee: well, is CRT nonwell, of cource I can't clain that CRT is obvious. But I think you're just allergic to it
apeloyee: in fact, using evil, heretical software, calculated that this tries ~6.5 times less candidates for ~2048-bit primes compared to the pick-random-odd-number
asciilifeform: and i am willing to make an effort and stretch muscles to expand my definition of 'obviously correct', but to a point.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:40 asciilifeform: trial division is dog slow vs gcd.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:38 asciilifeform: for the initial sieve ~prior~ to miller-rabin
asciilifeform: link to log or stfu
apeloyee: quit flipping from one opinion to another every few days
asciilifeform: i for one dun particularly care if keygenning takes a few hours.
apeloyee: do miller-rabin on the results.
asciilifeform: to set myself up to be nailed infineon-style ?!
asciilifeform: so what's the use of this then ?
apeloyee: It's a method to generate a muber not divisible by small primes. Might be still divisible by large ones.
asciilifeform: maybe i'm thick : what's the difference ?
asciilifeform: re crt, if apeloyee thinks he has found The Formula For Primes, he should not settle for small change, oughta publish...
apeloyee: how does it make bank from the captcha ? << it's just a proof of work. it's not unknown for sci-hub to ban etire countries also.
asciilifeform: ( lemme guess, spammers pay to farm theirs ? )
asciilifeform: how does it make bank from the captcha ?
apeloyee: you want sci-hub to wwork for phree? ☟︎
asciilifeform: apeloyee: can i persuade you to pseudocodize ?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 17:16 asciilifeform: imho this is an idiocy that perma-discredits everyone even tangentially involved.
apeloyee: ......p_n are independent and uniformly distributed, then the probability of tuple of these being chosen is the same (by definition of independence), and because CRT gives a bijection, all outputs are equally likely. did I repeat myself enough? ☟︎
apeloyee: ...then, by the CRT, there exists a bijection between all numbers in range [0, primorial-1] not divisible by any primes in the primorial, and the tuples of nonzero remainders from division by the primes. "numbers in range [0, primorial-1] not divisible by any primes in the primorial", obviously, includes all primes in said range (except those in the primorial). if the remainders mod 2, 3,...
a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 16:39 asciilifeform: i believe in the arithmetic, yes. but how to show that the two conditions i stated, hold ?
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 21:48 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << alternatively, can *construct* numbers which don't have very small factors. pick a nonzero remainder mod 2, mod 3, ... mod largest-prime-fit-in-your-primorial and find what number of primorial is congruent to it using chinese remainder theorem
apeloyee: so to recap, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722402 generates numbers in range [0, primorial-1]; it may yield a composite, but all outputs are equally likely, and all primes bigger than largest_prime_in_primorial and less than the primorial. Proof: since asciilifeform has admitted to believing in the statement of the Chinese Remainder Theorem (http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-07#1733392 ),... ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 15:53 asciilifeform: 13:08 < kanzure> she wants to control the access in her own way
asciilifeform: imho this is an idiocy that perma-discredits everyone even tangentially involved. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( why is there EVER EVEN ONE ?! ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, scihub seems to finally have broken, i get 11 'captchas' in a row, gave up
asciilifeform: ( exercise for n00bz : show that there is ALWAYS a prime between n and 2n, for n > 1. )