log☇︎
128300+ entries in 1.013s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i said 'does not cleanly compile', that is, requires a runtime component, rather than 'does not compile'
asciilifeform: have capitulated. (or this is implied, i have not asked them why it is 'part of gnu project)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is kinda why i was mocking the "lisp as its own thing" thing days back
mircea_popescu: o hey even better, i use &
phf: right, there are different namespaces for different kinds of data, like $ is a scalar, @ is a collection, & is a callable, i'm sure other things i forget
mircea_popescu: what if i make the program branch, and then load itself as $_ ?
phf: it is sad that i have this information stored somewhere in my brain, and that it eventually can be recalled with some prodding
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 21:09:39; mircea_popescu: gavrea, whom i've recently mentioned, had a very similar saying to distinguish between the "mathematical understanding" as described by funkenstein and the genuine article, by using the difference between the romanian words muzician (musician) and muzicant (roughly speaking, illiterate gypsy that can play by ear)
phf: afair perl uses multiple namespaces, so $ is explicitly a storage space, i.e. a variable
mircea_popescu: gavrea, whom i've recently mentioned, had a very similar saying to distinguish between the "mathematical understanding" as described by funkenstein and the genuine article, by using the difference between the romanian words muzician (musician) and muzicant (roughly speaking, illiterate gypsy that can play by ear) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i guess it would have to be interpreted.
asciilifeform: (or i suppose 'jit'-compiled in recent versions)
asciilifeform: and yes, it is mandated (though one may be able to pull some odd trick with the evaluator and snip it, i would be the last to know)
mircea_popescu: is support mandated throughout the whole namespace ? can i assume randomfunction knows of $_ ?
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 15:52:48; ben_vulpes: Using 'if' or the ternary operator as a function is quite common in perl. Using data structures to control flow is common in perl. Trying to learn C# after learning perl was like running head first into a brick wall. I'm really glad this guy is trying to make programming a bit more perl-like."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271293 << ironically these are all the reasons i never moved from bash to perl. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: why not ? i might have to logic analyze
mircea_popescu: i want to own my own mexicans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i actualy had to do that i'd hire a mexican to drag a desktop and use special cabling before i'd use a fucking proprietary laptop.
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 15:49:14; ben_vulpes: i do dream of having a workstation though, and the lifestyle to support it.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271285 << i hear emplacing a workstation is the first step to building a Dark Spire of Darnkess, from which as we all know all atomic dirigibles must proceed. ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: and no, i don't crypto on it.
mircea_popescu: i must have missed this, when did she gatecrash.
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 15:47:45; asciilifeform: i did try to explain this to mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271281 << you can try all you want, i've seen mod6 's portable openbsd. so has ben_vulpes ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i have a dead sand nigger on file, but his name was spelled differently.
asciilifeform: 'But he said that China should fear confrontation online: "I guarantee you we will win if we have to."' << l0l!!
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271247 <<< ya, i do ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271268 <<< fuicking americans. "i name this land This Land it is therefore my own now". ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i am now young again.
mircea_popescu: this is starting to feel like fucking highschool all over again. shit, i missed that.
asciilifeform: not only mentioned, but got to derive slightly before i did !
mircea_popescu: I AM AHEAD OF YOU HA-HA!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i fucking mentioned derive okay!
asciilifeform: and perhaps now mircea_popescu figured out how i got on my 'computer algebra' kick in recent months.
mircea_popescu: a half-baked implementation of V is what i had been maintaining in my head throughout my schooling years.
mircea_popescu: now if only i was in prison and i had the fucking undisturbed time to actually do this.
mircea_popescu: which... you know, i slept on this, and it occurs to me that ACTUAL MATHEMATICS might be the perfect thing to implement over V. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: !up i-dont-know2
phf: i was once laughed out of interview for suggesting that i want an office with a door that i can close on demand
phf: actually wait i see your point
phf: me neither, but i thought that was norm. also makes me think that bullpen programming offices are a conspiracy
asciilifeform: i, for instance, can't think about any deep problem when in a place where human speech is happening, or bodies are in motion. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but i suspect that we all have requirements that seem equally nonsensical to other people.
phf: re heaviside i don't grok how he could work in a hot room
asciilifeform: phf: interestingly, around the time dr. b retired, i fished a full ru set of knuth's aop from the library's garbage bin, along with a few dozen other (some, crumbling from age) maths texts, also ru
phf: hehe, i too had to take it twice. i skipped a semester to take it with brin again, and "applied myself" that time
asciilifeform: i think i know just what he meant.
asciilifeform: it would not be an exaggeration to say that if it were not for this man, i would be a 'respectable' dunning-krugerized waste of space somewhere, with delusions of 'knowing maths'
asciilifeform: best class i ever flunked.
phf: i remember having many lulz finding it last time, not sure if same website, but idea is the same "omg!!!worst prof eva!11"
asciilifeform: the former, i saw alive
phf: asciilifeform: oh i'm bringing them up in support to what you just said, so no
phf: trinque: it took an awfully long time, i want my utopia tomorrow!
phf: i guess ascii's point is that skullfuckers are not particularly good at ic design, etc.
asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is asleep, i will have to fill in for him and point out that cockroaches COULD develop civilization after ten million years of inhabiting the burned-out husks of the skyscrapers.
trinque: I think the problem with the idiocracy idea is precisely "here is everywhere"
trinque: I don't underestimate anyone who can handle that level of organizational complexity
asciilifeform: i should look for great cultural product from them ?
asciilifeform: what great cultural products ought i look for from the sellers of crack ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: aha, get to the moon by stacking chairs. i'll watch.
trinque: I've seen men before that fixated on a desired end result so much that they didn't bother with the intermediate steps at all.
trinque: which is why I keep bringing up incremental products along the way to rebuilding computing
phf: well, i have a 2.4 box that runs "if your dodgy stack fails, this must remain" operations, like email, sms, incidentally that is also last version i can find my way around (pretty sure massive amd/intel commit blogs came later), but it's impractical to use it as main system, unless you go to extreme measures of "my gimp 1.2 is as good as your photoshop" rms style
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think "having-been-doing-it-since-2000" is true, naggum ran into the main issue when he tried to run his own fork of 19 without the mule braindamage, gave up since merging changesets becomes unproductive. i think somewhere around those emails he talks about how he no longer has stamina to review new changes that are introduced into his system, and that's 2001 or so
asciilifeform: it has to do with 'i will not deliberately introduce undebuggable faults into my life'
trinque: I do.
asciilifeform: this is why i'm fundamentally in agreement with mircea_popescu's traditional retort 'go back in time and make better life choices'. but it applies just the same to my own sins, just different ones, not involving linux
trinque: when I say desktop, I mean place where I tape together system functionality into functions I use in daily work
trinque: if gabriel_laddel's is masamune, I guess mine can be "sting"
trinque: so you either spend the inordinate amount of time I have writing your own tools for the "desktop" or pay someone who already handled that for you
trinque: yep, so I would say I've gotten 3-4hrs while coding out
trinque: kakobrekla: claims 9hrs; I would expect with heavy use it's more like half that.
phf: in ~2015~ it's a different story, and i'm not arguing the value of gentoo here
asciilifeform: i don't want the cockroaches in the kitchen to begin with
asciilifeform: i don't want anything on my box I DIDN'T PUT THERE.
asciilifeform: phf: the point of gentoo, in my view (i've been on it for more than a decade, freebsd before that) is to BANISH CRAP from machine
trinque: don't ask me what I did to make it work, though
kakobrekla: well just once. i was trying to see how sturdy it is. and i broke it. was an easy change of part tho.
funkenstein_: i put xubuntu on an asus box last week
funkenstein_: once i moved to only open source software I have to install linux on a few laptops every month
kakobrekla: i havent had any bad luck with mine.
funkenstein_: as I see it the reason to have a crapple is you can pretend to know nothing about computers
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: funny thing is, a number of the other folks where i work got top-of-the-line 'macbooks' - one had spontaneous lcd crack a few weeks later, the other - reboots by itself...
asciilifeform: thing is, i can entirely predict, i think, what mircea_popescu will say: 'your life choices are wrong, you should not need a laptop'
trinque: I recall before that it was IBM thinkpads
kakobrekla: and ips seems to be quite scarce among non apple. sux0r. i cant see a tn anymore.
asciilifeform: i dun get it
phf: i actually think apple killed thinkpad
kakobrekla: i have a few x220 (which seem better than x230 which the girl uses)
trinque: I'm about to epoxy the thing
phf: i meant to say there are two thinkpads
trinque: asciilifeform: I've got the x1 carbon and the fucking hinge broke
asciilifeform: i shit thee not, a machine that suddenly decided that it won't even get through 'grub' 9 out of 10 times, but runs winblowz just fine. a year into its life.
asciilifeform: last year, i was given several $k by the fella i work for, to buy whatever machine i wanted, so long as it was portable. ended up with top-of-the-line (at the time) 'lenovo', and WHEN USING ONLY FREE SOFT despite MONTHS of effort, neither battery, nor 'suspend mode', nor EXTERNDAL DISPAY OF ANY KIND work.
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2015 10:18:46; phf: ascii_field: mircea_popescu: go give ben_vulpes a unix and laptop co-designed with it, then he can throw away the crapple << there's three apples in my mind, 90s one, the early 2000s one when programmers migrated from linux to a unix that Just Works, and the post iphone explosion apple. the first two are dead (10.10 is the final reason i froze my setup and migrating my entire stack away). but my point is that
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2015#1271218 << eventually they will cut their losses and demolish. but not yet, because the empties are a kind of bezzle of their own. ftr a good fraction of the town where i live consists of recently built and almost wholly empty dwellings. ☝︎
asciilifeform: i think i have the dead tree somewhere.
ben_vulpes: i have a whole company that does this.
asciilifeform: l0l srsly ? i thought ben_vulpes was a travelling www consultant