log☇︎
128100+ entries in 0.075s
esthlos: hmm...is there a way for reflow not to break diff...
mircea_popescu: esthlos because if put in separate places they'll automatically personalize ; hence the blogposts comment.
scriba: Logged on 2018-01-05: [19:03:26] <mircea_popescu> as i say -- i see no way out here ; we'll end up with the v-code + blog-commentary ostrich-camel and god help us./
esthlos: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20180105/#802 << I have an intuition that this is missing a higher symmetry. Why not use v for prose documents?
mircea_popescu: "now we're getting somewhere" better predictor of failure ; and there being english names anywhere inside the item -- almost perfect predictor.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what pantsuit may be whispering in ear, "here i am, with this 10lb book of which i can read not a word" is a very poor predictor of failure.
mircea_popescu: and, for completeness : leaning german off kant is perfectly acceptable manner of learning german altogether, for the sufficiently intelligent ; much like learning greek off homer. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 15:53 asciilifeform: ' fauns, beings of double sex, brutes with six-fingered hands, sirens, hippocentaurs, gorgons, harpies, incubi, dragopods, minotaurs, lynxes, pards, chimeras, cynophales who darted fire from their nostrils, crocodiles, polycaudate, hairy serpents, salamanders, horned vipers, tortoises, snakes, two-headed creatures whose backs were armed with teeth, hyenas, otters, crows, hydrophora with saw-tooth horns, frogs, gryphons, monkeys, dog-
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 17:11 mircea_popescu: they had all sorts of (utterly nonsensical) "cars of the future", their features being that they were "warlike" (in a dysfunctional, anti-mechanicistic, looks-are-everything-and-hot-beats-cute girl pov) and that they had mechanisms exposed
mircea_popescu: exactly a problem of "where the fuck is your engine" ie http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763930 ie "your problem is that you aren't fucking thinking. AT ALL." ☝︎
mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck already, car-paintjob-toenails-sunscreen-beachbod.
asciilifeform: and come to think of it, damn near any eng trans of substantially complicated philosopher
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a place where he was integrated into the borg, but it's a dubious weld.
mircea_popescu: but yes -- russian translations of kant, fichte, heidegger, husserl, spinoza, frege absolutely acceptable ; heck, even ro ones are fine. french is getting iffy.
mircea_popescu: hey, there's plenty, just not really on the topic [i inferred him to have] asked.
asciilifeform tries to think of most recent englischer worth reading... ...turing??
mircea_popescu: absolute ban on english as an avenue to this much in the same way absolute ban to barking as an avenue to opera. i don't care if you're a dog and i don't care if barking comes naturally to you
mircea_popescu: so do not fucking dare read anything having any ENGLISH SOUNDING NAMES anywhere at any point involved, which includes the fucking best grip.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 07:03 mircea_popescu: other than the lovely "if you launched all pantsuit in outer space, do you expect seti would manage to find any ?" putdown, valuable lesson from naggum : inept bureaucrats / insufferable cucks / other "people themselves" try to barnacle their inept nonsense (in original, scheme) on pre-existing "brand" (as they perceive it ; in the original -- lisp) for the transparently transactional reason that this way they "get to" (as th
mircea_popescu: and since this was mentioned : "kantian ethics", ie the item on which lazy-because-dumb-because-lazy-because-dumb-because esltards have gelled in their attempt to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764883 ie spuriously pretend "oh, WE ALREADY DID KANT!!" etc is about as relevant to the man's work as newtonian alchemy is relevant to newton's work. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 17:50 lobbes: In other incidental preguntas: mircea_popescu, can you recommend good "introductory" reading on the subject of thought classification? It seems like the obvious fundamental to improving my cognitive processes
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765023 << sadly, not in this language. but otherwise, the german school is the canonical introduction ; read ye yer kant, then proceed to http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=frege (not the other fucking way around ; english is a liability to the thinking man, and the latter's accessibility a burden). ☝︎
mircea_popescu: now let's see if this log can be caught up with.
ben_vulpes: figured that you would find it eventulolly
asciilifeform: if there's anybody else who signed , but not currently visible in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch5_egypt in appropriate spot -- plox to write in.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch3_shifts.vpatch.benvulpes.sig .
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.benvulpes.sig , ty
asciilifeform: i really gotta automate this 'meta' , the existing 'eyeball-powered' one is rather laughable.
asciilifeform: it's the typical 1.
asciilifeform: post the coad!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 07:13 mircea_popescu: o the fuck he is!!! ie, the world's heavyweight champion. ayer explained that he's the ex wykeham professor of logic, and since they're both pre-eminent in their respective fields, how about they indulge in discourse rather than intercourse. oddly enough tyson accepted, and naomi campbell slipped out -- apparently undamaged enough by the experience to actually do those not-even-terrible shots with madonna.
asciilifeform: this is what distinguishes us from the apes, we can do experiment, rather than argue over empty table.
asciilifeform: i promise to try it.
asciilifeform: hey trinque why dontcha write your variant vtron. then we'll talk about the output. rather than this headache.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 00:00 asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo ; and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc
asciilifeform: understand, trinque , asciilifeform does not suffer from an irrational hatred of people who start with letter 't' , and thereby balk at $algo. asciilifeform genuinely does not see how it results in anything other than a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765616 horror show. ☝︎
trinque: there are two questions conflated here; 1) what is the expected state of the patient and 2) what is to be done to him
trinque: by simply naming the files that would've received the junk-comments as antecedents, with hash of their expected state
asciilifeform: ( btw does trinque have an existing variant-vtron that i can look at the output of ? )
asciilifeform: suppose this algo were in use. and it is time for trinque to write the 'makefiles' patch . how does the latter coalesce the strands ?
asciilifeform: trinque: let's consider the 2nd then
trinque: I proposed two schemes to better model it, and actually like the second better. one was including the entire concatenation's hash in a vpatch. the second was being able to name arbitrary antecedent files without the requirement that diff material follows
asciilifeform: but they aren't meaningless. they signify 'you will have ~this~ db.cpp and ~this~ db.h and ...'
trinque: you are *already* naming arbitrary antecedents in this ad hoc manner of ~meaningless~ junk edits that do not well convey why they happened by sitting there.
asciilifeform: how does $scheme differ from the old practice of signing tars ?
asciilifeform: trinque: is the observation factual or not ?
asciilifeform: you can sign tarballs right now. i dun see why to even use a vtron then.
trinque: it's certainly easier to criticize that way, isn't it
asciilifeform: if asciilifeform misread trinque's scheme somewhere -- will reread. but my current understanding is that it is exactly equivalent to signing tarballs. like in dark ages.
asciilifeform: and it is the correct way to coalesce strands.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is nothing mechanically 'speshulcase' about it, the vtron has no dedicated execution path for it. it'sa patch like any other.
asciilifeform: if every patch were forced to do it, you could not have a tree at all -- only radiating spokes.
asciilifeform: note that this is an item you have ~option~ of doing.
asciilifeform: trinque: it in fact put comments in unrelated file. just as i described must be done to tie up strands, when i released v
ben_vulpes: but this is the magic political speshul case of a patch that ties together other patches for the political object that is a release!
trinque: ben_vulpes: don't cloud the politics with facts!
trinque: second, does my memory deceive or did the thing end up with a comment in an *unrelated file*
asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo ; and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc ☟︎☟︎
trinque: first off, I wrote the makefiles, mod6 modified. speaking of political fog.
asciilifeform: i thought it was clear
ben_vulpes: ehehehentirely unrelatedly, asciilifeform, what's with the odd capitalization of mUx in ch4?
asciilifeform: mod6's 'makefiles' was able to cleanly build on 'asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected' , without regrinding anything. i still fail to understand what would have been gained by forcing mod6 to ~manually~ regrind the entire history of entire fucking world in order to produce 'makefiles' ( and for the latter to consequently weigh a megabyte , instead of 10kb !!! )
asciilifeform: and at the risk of repeating , trinque can ~already~ do his style, in the existing v. whereas asciilifeform can't do worth shit in a trinque-style v.
asciilifeform: the patches are readable because they are minimal, and local changes stay local.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:48 asciilifeform: srsly i dunget why all of you lot so much want to break v. it WORKS.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765599 << I'm not dignifying this shit. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: not going to go break everything, at least today.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: arguing has honed how i see the problem at least
asciilifeform: ( and moreover, if operators INSIST on committing war crimes, it makes cleanup trivial. called negrate. )
asciilifeform: and yes it relies on operators not to do blitheringly idiotic things. this is why v is possible in tmsr and not at microshit.
ben_vulpes: can dig trench here or ten feet sideways, literally does not matter to me.
asciilifeform: srsly i dunget why all of you lot so much want to break v. it WORKS. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: i'm going to tap out, will wait for mircea_popescu to pour some more fuel on this one.
asciilifeform: that's what 'hash the codebase' equals. 1 file.
asciilifeform: but i'ma rewind upstack : trinque is entirely free to begin using this type of v right now ! by coalescing whole proggy into 1 file. then he can see what ends up happening to his tree.
asciilifeform: y'know how this ends,trinque, it ends with having to line yer house with rope ('eruv'), pay some d00d to dial a modem to turn yer stove on and off...
asciilifeform: superflous constraints, 'just in case', is how the talmudists ended up the way they are.
asciilifeform: trinque: the fact that the patch gets to be small, readable, and cleanly coalesceable . it correctly reflects the fact that it nonconflicts with items outside of db.cpp .
asciilifeform: if trb tree can continue to look EXACTLY like http://btcbase.org/patches ( with new leaves growing ) -- your vtron is usable. if not -- not.
trinque: hasn't yet been any reason someone benefits by having your edit to maxlocks but having done something batshit to say, a file db.cpp depends upon
asciilifeform: i will not tie OWN hands to possibly constrain some idiot somewhere.
trinque: there can be multiple trees just fine in that world
asciilifeform: think, if EVERY patch requires global regrind of all of world history, you ain't using v, may as well throw out all of the unnecessary equipment -- you're passing a monolithic turd around ☟︎
trinque: the more constraints against idiocy the better.
trinque: we come to a deep political disagreement there
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes and this is coarse error in pilotage. THIS, not the fact that v permits you.
asciilifeform: if instead it demanded that your tree, to apply it, be bitwise-identical to asciilifeform's tree when he made it -- you could only build on this patch if you reground ALL of EVERYONE's work every single fucking time ☟︎
ben_vulpes: the point that trinque is making is that you can change other files in such a way that ruins maxint_locks
asciilifeform: want moar ? or get the idea
asciilifeform: and i'ma have nothing to do with any project that makes use of such a system.
asciilifeform: that it completely thermonukes the usefulness of v, to me personally.
trinque: I am not going to sidestep onto that point. I made one, have anything to say to it?
asciilifeform: trinque: your tree ends up a spaghetti of radiating strands that can never recoalesce.
trinque: I do not need to edit the fucking thing to depend on a particular state of it
asciilifeform: patches that do not touch db.cpp , in any way shape or form, should not lock it into a state or depend on a particular state of it
asciilifeform: and imposes nonsensical constraint that would not otherwise be imposed.
asciilifeform: this TAKES AWAY detail that is currently preserved.
trinque: to date no one has critiqued that view directly.