log☇︎
13000+ entries in 0.153s
mircea_popescu: malleable in what sense ? as in childhood malleable ?
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda happy with my mind as it is, myself.
deedbot: 557D9486765678B52BA698560040F7B6EE331885 registered as tittybang.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 18:35 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797532 << as far as i can tell the 'rsa has structure! but aes, surely not' is instance of minsky's empty room ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920444 )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: don't fixate on the cooling ; i proposed it as simple means of producing 'dry' air
ben_vulpes: "The Use of the Expansion of Gases in a Centrifugal Field as Cooling Process"
ben_vulpes: it'll cool, sure, but nowhere near as much as if it were a gas, as the gas will condense and pull further heat out of the local system.
asciilifeform: for so long as you can make a pressure gradient at all.
asciilifeform: ( as well as the fact that it has to work 'from parking lot to mach X' )
asciilifeform: as i understand, would be constrained by possible length of the tube and the strength of the material from which it is made
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: gives you clean, h2o-free o2, if the spigot is placed correctly in the vortex, as i understand
trinque: spyked: any chance you want to do mircea_popescu's requested RSS bot? I've got plenty on my plate as it stands.
trinque just ran the same command as from cron, pretty weird
avgjoe: after seeing that raiblocks was just some random coin, i tried to understand better bitcoin and found trilema as a very valid starting point, no-frills like, to use bitcoin in a responsable manner
trinque is fine with putting it, so long as avgjoe here reads that WoT article.
ben_vulpes: hey it is your faq, you may answer as f as you like
trinque: my point was that you can't answer the question of whether to trust me as you sit there now
avgjoe: ok, so as long as i see trinque alive on irc i can feel safe about my test bitcents on it
mircea_popescu: nobody cared about him back when he was a good actor 20 years ago as much as they care now, that he delivers wooden monologues of sheer nonsense.
asciilifeform: i've no particular objection to snake oil from king cobra vs from japanese viper; but as i observed earlier, the sudden popularity of bernsteinism has never been explained to my satisfaction.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what your experience with "peer review" is, but as far as anyone involved is aware, exactly no review goes on in those circumstances. see sokal & all.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-13 23:07 mircea_popescu: In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797532 << as far as i can tell the 'rsa has structure! but aes, surely not' is instance of minsky's empty room ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920444 ) ☝︎☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 18:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797142 << understand, the discussion here is re cryptographic hardness, not mathematical hardness ; as discussed otherplaces in the logs, the mathematical notion of difficulty is "what's the absolute hardest case this problem can yield", because they want to offer maximal flop guarantees ; cryptographically it is kinda opposite : what's the LOWEST difficulty a problem in this class may yield
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797142 << understand, the discussion here is re cryptographic hardness, not mathematical hardness ; as discussed otherplaces in the logs, the mathematical notion of difficulty is "what's the absolute hardest case this problem can yield", because they want to offer maximal flop guarantees ; cryptographically it is kinda opposite : what's the LOWEST difficulty a problem in this class may yield ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:12 zx2c4: things like RSA boil down to number theory problems. but that's in a sense scarier than the set of problems that good block ciphers tend to boil down to. because it means that those primitives have lots of _structure_, and generally structure is something that can be exploited. just look at all the amazing and fantastic attacks on things with structure. so just boiling down to a [currently considered] "hard problem" doesn't provide as much solace
ckang: 'pull request are always welcome' :) as they say
mircea_popescu: the line 332 explosion is a fine example of this as any could be had.
mircea_popescu: generally the alfajor as a commercial item is two wafers, ddl in betrween, whole dipped in hard chocolate.
ben_vulpes: experiments from the kitchen, im sure more variants with chocolate will appear as soon as i mention the idea
mircea_popescu: hey, i didn't think i even liked girls, as a 14yo. people get strange ideas in their heads.
ckang: whats your opinion on it, as it stands currently?
asciilifeform: zx2c4: performance is difficult to compare; if you remove various safeguards, you get ~same binary as equiv c proggy would have produced on same ver of gcc.
mircea_popescu: could you guess, zx2c4 , why we would favour ada for finnicy work such as crypto libs ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, as to the other one : v is the republican... well many things, but also works as a versioning system. here's a pretty picture to help the notion along : http://btcbase.org/patches << you can select from the drop menu to the left, see vaqrious trees extant. you can click on any item to see the patch it represents.
mircea_popescu: the problem is fundamental, though. the same EXACT thinking informs this problem as informs the earlier discussion with asciilifeform over null ciphers.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point here isn't that padded protocols infoleak in multiples of the paddiong., the point is that 0 is a special case invariant, and yhou can never leak a multiple of 0 safely. because, again, a message of arbitrary length n can be presented as m messages of length k ; but 0 messages can never carry anything.
mircea_popescu: in any case, cryptography comes in two sorts : sort a), known here as "this must be secure, it's so confusing to me", and sort b). the moment you say "i can't see what this gives attacker" you force-shove yourself in group a. it's not your business to know the attacker, that's the whole fundamental philosophy of ciphering, that you do not need to know the attacker.
mircea_popescu: zx2c4 the fundamental problem with "set to empty" is that ciphers can be and many are vulnerable to this, as a particular case of "known plaintext"
mircea_popescu: so in no case a dizzy operator could naively set up noise 7.4 so as to send his payloads in plaintext.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what i see is, the cell is there, but there is no indication that it is connected , as it ought to be, to red lights, siren, and dropping of reactor moderator rods
asciilifeform: i understand the bare fact, zx2c4 . my question is, why do you think the protocol author permitted an unsecured mode as a valid mode of operation ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:36 zx2c4: - minimal state machine, as mentioned above, which means 1-RTT: if something goes wrong with a message being dropped, the solution is always to just "start over the protocol", since it's only 1-RTT. this saves amazing amounts of complexity
mircea_popescu: the deed in deedbot comes from the republican system for registration of deeds. think of it as your county clerk, you can go to him to register your wedding or business or w/e.
deedbot: AB9942E6D4A4CFC3412620A749FC7012A5DE03AE registered as zx2c4.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol notyet, i did the 'civilized' thing as you suggested.
asciilifeform: i don't see 'not publicly smashed to bits of just yet' as a proof of strength, given as it is true of literally every system ever devised, until the moment of public breakage
zx2c4: blake2 came from blake which went through the sha3 contest as a finalist
asciilifeform: i am skeptical of all symmetric ciphers and hashes, given as there exists no scientific basis for considering any of them to be actually strong.
asciilifeform: sadly enough, there is not, as of my last look, a proof that rsa reduces to hardness-of-Factoring
zx2c4: as you'd hope
zx2c4: things like RSA boil down to number theory problems. but that's in a sense scarier than the set of problems that good block ciphers tend to boil down to. because it means that those primitives have lots of _structure_, and generally structure is something that can be exploited. just look at all the amazing and fantastic attacks on things with structure. so just boiling down to a [currently considered] "hard problem" doesn't provide as much solace ☟︎
zx2c4: same source as /dev/urandom
zx2c4: KEMs like RSA are more complicated to implement in as few round trips as DH-based protocols
zx2c4: - ease of system administration. since its interface-based, things like iptables and whatnot work as you'd expect.
zx2c4: - denial of service resistance. as mentioned, you should be able to put this on the outer edge of a network
zx2c4: - minimal state machine, as mentioned above, which means 1-RTT: if something goes wrong with a message being dropped, the solution is always to just "start over the protocol", since it's only 1-RTT. this saves amazing amounts of complexity ☟︎
zx2c4: wireguard is supposed to be implementable using simple algorithms with as small of a state machine as possible, so that the code size and complexity is kept at a minimum. in otherwords, it aims to be easily auditable so that people can actually read it and feel confident that it doesnt have horrible vulnerabilities. with massive codebases and highly complex designs like openvpn or ipsec, this obviously isnt possible. so with wireguard i was trying
ben_vulpes: i am unsure as to how serious you are being.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: as in actually trying to talk to itself over http?
mircea_popescu: ah, lol. are you referencing the mp-wp as "localhost:800/whatever/index.php" ?
mircea_popescu: does it take just as long for a dummy index.html ?
ben_vulpes: moreover i got the same behavior out of the php_fpm and proxy setup last night, but had trouble believing my eyes. now i've reproduced it with mod_php and am just as baffled.
ben_vulpes: there are a few threading models in apache as i understand it, prefork, worker and event
ckang: he was looking for sponsors it sounded like though as he wants to focus on it full time
asciilifeform: trinque, douchebag : not nearly as permanent as proper tattoo , but low-tech enuff and good for year or 2 -- print a negative and expose under one of those uv lamps that idiots 'suntan' under
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:38 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796216 << the whole thing is phrased as "asking questions". one can never be in a rabbit hole so deep they can't ask questions. it's not your job to make any determination, so why stress.
deedbot: 8F578B57149263815191B121BE2B714B46966398 registered as saturn_.
lobbes: Re: process restarter, I ended up using a method trinque suggested (in logs somewhere but no time to dig): essentially the bot gets started as a child process to the parent proccess
mircea_popescu: ely equivalent to "let an ultralarge integer be defined as that integer which is larger than all irrational numbers."
mircea_popescu: but since i've mentioned good, let it be stated that "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,'" is a self-contradictory definition, entir
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you recall, the thing that got all the inept "science" press hot and bothered in the 80s, and nosnense such as hal 9000 / space odissey etc (ie, the first iteration of "lesswrong" wankery) was a demonstration by sussman & goode that "you can have artificial brains growing in the same way as real ones", ie, neural networks that algorithmically expand
asciilifeform: in principle there's no reason why every single board needs clock, so long as owner is friends with somebody who does have clock, in same rack
asciilifeform: not only sniff test, but , may as well proclaim it here : 1) 6 rockchiptrons are to be installed at pizarro 2) each subscriber gets a clean , asciilifeform-recipe gentoo image to start with 3) 128GB flash by default , upgrades negotiable , talk to ben_vulpes & mod6 4) each machine comes with full kernel src for asciilifeform's custom rockchip kernel recipe
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing, as there never was such a thing.
mircea_popescu: it's hard, you know, middle class parents keep telling girlie she's valuable and important and in charge and whatnot, when none of those are the case. then as adolescence is drawing to an end, all those kited checks of "safety" and "better not have unprotected sex with random people if you're not 100% sure they know your name" come to be paid and well... there's nothing to pay them with.
deedbot: 2FD0EEEC595AE266F3DFDED3BF9FF1C7D1A9EF2E registered as heyleeecx.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo doesn't she want titmoney ? << Maybe? I am inclined to wait until she tires of paying for things to present the opportunity or I get bored. She's español as a single language and does not understand technology.
asciilifeform fell in luvv with 'sokoban' as a boy, it was ~the~ game, and only many yrs later realized the appeal: so much like in actual life, player spends good % of time in 'yer phucked, whether know it or not, all yer moves are futile' state
mircea_popescu: (and this is also why i pronounced http://trilema.com/2016/the-story-of-elliot-rodger-by-elliot-rodger-adnotated-part-one/ as the ultimate hero : because he, unlike "the smarter" lot of them, actually wanted a girlfriend TO USE HER, not so that his dumb head can finally function, oh, $woman-in-head is here to tell me all will be ok, now i can pour myself a glass of milk whereas before--couldn't. this much is categorical advan
mircea_popescu: what the fuck do i care "what it all means in the end". let the end fucking care. and how the hell could any process baked in "$the end". imagine if there was a language which required as part of any function call the exit code of the program. wut ?!
BingoBoingo: In other news after spending a Uruguayo/a free night slaying the Inca in bed my mood is not quite so dismal. As long as there's no "want of a nail" cascades alf shouldn't be greeted by Eeyore. This still does nothing to solve the indexing problem.
mircea_popescu: and in general, the cockcages are optional, even if misrepresented as mandatory by mommy.
mircea_popescu: also, if nuclear weapons ended the world in 1970 ~good for them~, and if the supercollider "ended reality" in the 2010s (as various imbeciles proposed as a valid reason "not to do it" all over the oh-so-useful-and-valuable "science press"), GOOD FOR IT.
mircea_popescu: now, it's evident where this misrepresentation of intellectual process comes from -- the inept notion of caregivers kid should be "responsible". kid shouldn't be nor is responsible in that sense ; if one of my girls sets the house on fire through unforeseen effect of reasonable application of item, she may feel guilty as a residual side effect of the sexual abuse her parents and broader society put her through, but she won't
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 14:26 spyked: but as it is, I could only ask stupid questions such as "what's wrong with modelling this using petri nets". or any other simpler method.
mircea_popescu: trade wars, dood, the first step of "governments" coming to terms with malthusian shock (also known as "when the ideology of abundance runs ashore on the jagged rocks of reality")
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796216 << the whole thing is phrased as "asking questions". one can never be in a rabbit hole so deep they can't ask questions. it's not your job to make any determination, so why stress. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 08:11 avgjoe: Basically segwit it could be reprhased as the "i'm a good politician that will enforce the ---good--- policy but to enforce this i'll need to take some of your sovereignty (keys), but bear with me, hashrate is gonna protect you"
asciilifeform: speaking of which, apparently AS OF TODAY gentoo portage latest ver DEMANDS gpg2. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
spyked: but as it is, I could only ask stupid questions such as "what's wrong with modelling this using petri nets". or any other simpler method. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i do not have anything against mechanized proof per se. but in practice it is in ~100% of published cases used as an attempted 'i can't believe it's not self-evident correctness!' margarinesque substitute for fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796220 << that's because... it IS salad. with a perfume of 'proofiness' sprayed on , as described in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390 re urbitists ☝︎
avgjoe: Basically segwit it could be reprhased as the "i'm a good politician that will enforce the ---good--- policy but to enforce this i'll need to take some of your sovereignty (keys), but bear with me, hashrate is gonna protect you" ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 03:42 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1795922 << this is broken in the same way as the subjects of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-03#1792556 discussion.
lobbes: I certainly wasn't planning on it being a long-term solution, but I see what you mean. Plus, if I'm burning time anyways on this I may as well just learn some lisp and use the trinquebot. Have an actual republican item out of the effort rather than another pile of stapled dildos >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796013 ☝︎
asciilifeform: ckang: this makes 0 sense as 'flaw'
ckang: it is 'better' in same sense as ethereum 'better than' paypal <- so its slightly better than the worst? ;)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796071 << it is 'better' in same sense as ethereum 'better than' paypal. ☝︎