124100+ entries in 0.074s
diana_coman: I always read asciilifeform's "meat" along
the lines of "call of
the annoying reality of existence in human form"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:53 mircea_popescu: nothing prevents you from saying "this is
the genesis of apeloyee's fantastical funicular, it consists of a cog i stole from alf's exceptional exsudator, some other bits i wrote myself and various parts i forgot where i stole" ; but something QUITE fundamental prevents you from writing down "include #fucksticks" and
to have a helpful paperclip pop out of nowhere in your emacs guts and declare "this so far looks like you're pu
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:33 BingoBoingo: From
the WaPo: "Six buses operated by Silicon Valley
tech companies
to shuttle employees
to
their offices have been attacked on
the highway over
the past week.
The California Highway Patrol reports
that four Apple and one Google bus had
their windows shattered on
Tuesday by unidentified projectiles"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:31 phf: i half expect it
to be some kind of kafka narrative, where, when not engaged with
tmsr business, alf actually does some macabre butcher work involving big meaty hands and slabs
diana_coman: in
the "it
takes human hand"?
the
thing put
together needs
taken apart of similar nature
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:58 mircea_popescu:
the problem is
that later on, eucrypt's smg_keccak will be pulled into
the main
to be used for purposes ; if EVEN LATER it gets a patch, phf will
then not actually have a way
to seamlessly "get just
the patch", he will have
to regrind at
that
time anyway.
diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772485 <- after
things are put
together by human hand it
takes human hand
to
take
them apart, yes, unsurprising; point is it's enough
to choose and pick out of
the desired vpatch what is relevant (i.e. for keccak in
this example) and
that's as far as it goes
☝︎ mircea_popescu: which is why
the original "do not link across v
trees"
mircea_popescu: ie,
this "independent parts in an automatic fashion" is a hope impossible in practice.
the only way he can have it is if HE reads it, as it is found wherever it is found (eucrypt as it happens here), and
then HE puts it in, as a regrind, ie, yes, "de novo" item.
mircea_popescu: the problem is
that later on, eucrypt's smg_keccak will be pulled into
the main
to be used for purposes ; if EVEN LATER it gets a patch, phf will
then not actually have a way
to seamlessly "get just
the patch", he will have
to regrind at
that
time anyway.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: consider concretely
the case of eucrypt's keccak. diana_coman is writing it as a direct derivation off genesis, meaning on extant v impls if one wanted
to import it
they could import JUST it, without
the rest of eucrypt (it'll be pulled in later
through
the usual procedure in eucrypt itself). superficially
this may seem like it encourages phf
to go "o i know, i'll just link keccak patch into my codebase rather
than regring (i
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:56 asciilifeform: however it DOES mean even ~more~ work for folx using v,
than ever before. and not less.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771941 << it means
the bar for what may be acceptable primitives is slightly lower
than before ;
this is not necessarily avoidable
though,
the advantage of having alphabet starts around having
twenty or so letters only ; fifty letter "alphabet" is not much better
than 5000 hieroglyphery.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: in other words,
the only maker of independence in
the realm of
thought is
the hand of man, and
this can't be fixed.
mircea_popescu: because it'd need guile
to do and guile is shit. if for no other reason. comprende ?
mircea_popescu: nothing prevents you from saying "this is
the genesis of apeloyee's fantastical funicular, it consists of a cog i stole from alf's exceptional exsudator, some other bits i wrote myself and various parts i forgot where i stole" ; but something QUITE fundamental prevents you from writing down "include #fucksticks" and
to have a helpful paperclip pop out of nowhere in your emacs guts and declare "this so far looks like you're pu
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:55 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu's argument was
that it is wrong
to say
that
they could ~ever~ be properly independent. and
that if
they could be shown
to be independent,
they ought
to be separate v-trees.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:43 asciilifeform: fenómenos que "no
tiene antecedentes" en el país << orly?
mircea_popescu: sadly, until phf's improved diff hits
the deck
there's nothing we can do here.
mod6: yah, food for
thought here maybe.
mod6: yah,
that's actually what it added up
to: "+++ ", but no diff info / hash after it.
mircea_popescu: mod6
the magic string diff uses is "+++ " ie
three plusses AND A SPACE
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of mats from 2
to 3 << #trilema - Never has let me go into battle with an empty war-chest.
mod6: mircea_popescu: also, fwiw, we might need
to adjust our "NO '--- ' or '+++ '
to begin a line in a vpatch
to "NO '-- ' or '++ '".
There was a vpatch in development where my vtron choked on a line being added into a source file
that began with '++', and with
the diff '+', became '+++'. My vtron correctly choked here. But maybe a bit of an adjustment
to
the rule?
BingoBoingo: From
the WaPo: "Six buses operated by Silicon Valley
tech companies
to shuttle employees
to
their offices have been attacked on
the highway over
the past week.
The California Highway Patrol reports
that four Apple and one Google bus had
their windows shattered on
Tuesday by unidentified projectiles"
☟︎ mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if anyone is wondering, alf lives in a sausage plant.
there's lots of meat. << been wondering if I should move in with him, or
take bets on when he gets scurvy
shinohai: Heh, in my my mind I always imagined asciilifeform living in abattoir because of
the "brb, meats"
phf: i half expect it
to be some kind of kafka narrative, where, when not engaged with
tmsr business, alf actually does some macabre butcher work involving big meaty hands and slabs
☟︎ mircea_popescu: if anyone is wondering, alf lives in a sausage plant.
there's lots of meat.
mircea_popescu doesn't
think greek
tragedy is party
to
this discussion, but is overwhelmed by explaining why.
phf: or lovers, like what is it,
the
two gentlemen of verona
mircea_popescu: i can't
think of major examples outside of
the star wars
thing (coulkdn't
think of
that either until pointed out). commedia is mostly brothers.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> or is
that just hollywoods <<
The Greeks did it!
phf: ascii vs brother doesn't strike me as
that kind of relationship. more like "you have
to learn much little one, and i have N years on you"
phf: that would be quite a
twist
mircea_popescu: (but since we're on it --
the enduring interest in obfuscated-c is strictly
this, "let us
try and write a novel in orthogonal language ;
this should be done in c because it's very much not orthogonal". became a self-recursing joke,
that
the practitioners don't even properly understand, just sorta-feel. BECAUSE
they
talk about it in natural languages.)
mircea_popescu: and all
this goes right into
that older
thread of ambiguity, orthogonality and language -- you can never make a language
that's orthogonal and ~useful~ in
the natural sense. let alone "that anyone'd want
to use".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: you could not have written such a
tagging mechanism as it'd have permitted a machine
to recognize
the substance of what you were saying when discussing "pointers" which weren't.
mircea_popescu: and
this identity is also fluent, because different
things are
the same
thing, such as no further
than earlier
the "you really want a lisp stack".
this recognition is only
there because of personal knowledge, and absent otherwise.
mircea_popescu: the strong statement here is
that
the ~only~ possible identity bits of code have is based on ~personal memory~.
to revisit
the oft used bubblesort example -- any particular implementation of bubblesort IS bubblesort because ~you~ recognize it as such and for ~no other reason~, factual ~or possible~. consequently fits in head as
the basis of code identity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite evident ; but yes, i believe wrong problem
to solve. "oh lord, how could bits of code have an identity ?" "why ?" "so
they could be my girflriends" "Come on!"
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:34 apeloyee: files are NOT INDEPENDENT. despite CVS and v pretending
they are.
this is a problem. you could have required some form of cryptographic commitment
to either
the
tree state or even
the antedecent patches
themselves, but didn't
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:32 asciilifeform: apeloyee:
the 'liable
to change'
thing was very much NOT part of my orig design for v.
phf: never mind
then! i gotta figure out how
to do
the whole "file moved part" anyway, and i don't need a hashing function yet. i'm using a sha512 implementation from busybox
diana_coman: padding, bitstream, sponge, oaep
to follow; currently still in
the works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't
tell me you didn't
take your volkskomputi
to
the commissariat for
the mandatory urine injections or what was it.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, yes, all
that
there is still only... first part
diana_coman: phf,
those are
the keccak
transformations; do you need
the actual sponge?
phf: aye, i'll marry keccak
to vdiff
today or
tomorrow
to get a poc out.
mircea_popescu: some possible
things need
to be made before it can be decided.
mircea_popescu: why not actually do it
then, and first construct an ada circular ring lisp-memory stack first ?
mircea_popescu: note how ffa ends up satisfying
the greenspun rule,
through
the predictable entry point.
mircea_popescu: whereby
the jump is in
the item pointed
to, not in
the mechanism of pointing
mircea_popescu: ah you don't actually mean
to use pointers, just a lisp-style memory emulator for
the stack itself
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 18:07 asciilifeform: however
this introduces explicit pointerism. (
though, i will add, NOT pointer-arithmetism )
BingoBoingo: By all appearances
though
the Englishman is functionally
taking his vacation on Facebook.
BingoBoingo: And
there's an old USian chasing 80 degree
temps for his arthritis and going
to AA meetings
that at least made an effort at memorizing phrases before he fucked off
to Buenos Aires
BingoBoingo: And
the Brasileros without spanish can usually get by on
the latin language mutual intelligibity deal
shinohai: Maybe he is still searching for an app for
that!
BingoBoingo: Apparently one can have fun in Punta Del Este with zero spanish provided
they have a
Trump budget, but it is a serious WTFism.