log☇︎
12600+ entries in 0.12s
diana_coman: onth I can't see anything wrong in adding "feel like x" to a pizarro add if that does anything
PeterL: recently I saw an ad for some brokerage service, they actually included as one of the selling points "you can feel like a trader!"
asciilifeform: diana_coman: tlp had the piece re 'they get faux-brokerage acct to Feel Like a Trader'
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 11:51 mp_en_viaje: moreover, and overwhelmingly important, some duning-krugerands retarded enough to not understand that their cunt map they made (coming from the same place their "let's make a pact to get laid before highschool starts" "pact" came, ie, complete insanity and a ridiculously nonsensical worldview, wherein they're magically the only agents, and the world exists on the basis of their mental processes and in no other way, notwithstanding the obvious probl
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907456 << linked item is a hybrid of exactly this, and ye olde 'stone soup' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 11:34 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907141 << im not so sure the generalized problem is that interesting. he has a solid point, "are you kidding me, i can identify your ethernet stack with a fucking pickup needle".
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907441 << i'ma come back to this some time we both have a whole hour, it deserves own thrd ( and possibly -- article ) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 09:47 mp_en_viaje: but! c) i show up, explain i got 3 people but ~200kgs of luggage (i'm fucking diana ross over here) and their idea was to.... pay for ticket, after which show up at airport, ~with no carrier guarantee whatsoever~. "pay us so many thousands to put yourself in such a spot, we can ask for any moar moneyz we think of".
asciilifeform: bigendian is sadly ~extinct on extant market iron tho. to the point that i haven't even a working one in torture room to test on presently.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 09:57 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907026 << i can't conceive what small endian ~even is for~. what is it for ? i'm against even supporting it altogether, you want to computer, use a computer that netowrk oders.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 21:57 PeterL: seems to be a function of how far from the price listed elsewhere that you start it
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 21:48 BingoBoingo: Quite a lot of bidding this month
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 16:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << i formerly thought that this was obvious from the docs , but you ~can~ operate on vpatches without a vtron ( they're edible by trad. unix 'patch' util, and you can verify the sigs with anyffin roughly gpg-like , also by hand )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 13:24 phf: OriansJ: so i've thought about it, expressing concepts in forms for general consumption is a bad coping mechanism from a life time of being the smartest person in the room (assuming that it's not a ruse or self-delusion and you _are_ actually capable of clear thinking). problem is that it makes you lazy and rots the brain, and then when you're in the room of equals or superiors you suddenly discover that you're not practiced at
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907308 << not to mention a) insulting and b) counterproductive. whenever you say something dumbly you steal from the smart, to give to the dumb. this is both shameful, ie ethically wrong, and evil, ie, morally wrong. if you've decided to steal, always steal from the dumb to give to the smart. they make much better friends. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907307 << the map his vpatch viewer spits out should work with that subset ; so should something like http://wot.deedbot.org/6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452.html ; if you don't see a circle of links under the fingerprint, i expect your "subset of svg" is actually not functional on some level. though as he says, the actual possibility of having such a custom svg is dubious altogeter. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 12:01 OriansJ: now I am willing to build from source tools (after an audit) that will work with v; so that I can interact with the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor trust anyone who has previously audited the code; I am left with the bad option of setting up a burn box to view the patches.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << this is not a bad option lol, we do this exact thing alllll the damn time. how the hell else ? ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907276 << as a factual matter, it seems to work fine without javascript : http://browsershots.org/http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=v ; it does not however work fine on broken browsers, which admittedly is quite the overwhelming majority of all browsers however counted. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 00:34 OriansJ: the javascript requirement is a bit odd though for the patches page
mp_en_viaje: that's what effective means, preventing the uncommitted. http://trilema.com/2013/the-disadvantage-of-teaching-people-the-alphabet-and-nothing-more-is-that-you-have-to-somehow-put-up-with-a-bunch-of-retards-that-can-now-express-themselves-in-writing/ and all that.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 14:43 phf: i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 23:46 OriansJ: asciilifeform: honestly, the chemicals and the patents are still a mess in that field plus the never could produce a chip that could exceed 100khz
mp_en_viaje: and so no, it is very much not a step, directions indifferent. it's a nonstep, very specifically what kanzure is famous for here -- nonsteps like these can readily take decades and deliver 0. exactly like masturbation (which the whole exercise precisely and transparently is, masturbation for the erectile dysfunctional).
mp_en_viaje: 30 yo dorks with a weird beard, living in cramped, shared, squalid accomodations and "preparing a phd" aren
mp_en_viaje: moreover, and overwhelmingly important, some duning-krugerands retarded enough to not understand that their cunt map they made (coming from the same place their "let's make a pact to get laid before highschool starts" "pact" came, ie, complete insanity and a ridiculously nonsensical worldview, wherein they're magically the only agents, and the world exists on the basis of their mental processes and in no other way, notwithstanding the obvious probl ☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 23:44 OriansJ: asciilifeform: It is a guide for groups of people to pool together resources and setup a 1 micrometer fab to generate trusted chips. Yes it is far from optimal but it is a step in the right direction.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907171 << but a guide written by the blind. there's some very drastic limits to "good intentions", and ESPECIALLY to self-awarded "good intentions", you must understand. the best of intention do not permit a bunch of poor kids from rural idaho to write a half-useful (ie, useful in more than 50% of cases) munchen subway map. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 23:40 asciilifeform: looking at the 'process steps' docs in the linked page, it seems to be a straight wikipedization of ordinary schoolbook description of ic fab process
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907145 << this is a more doubtful claim. what patterns, tcp/ip ? ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907141 << im not so sure the generalized problem is that interesting. he has a solid point, "are you kidding me, i can identify your ethernet stack with a fucking pickup needle". ☝︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: there's a reason early airplanes "flew" rattan bodies on denim wings, and it ain't to do with science. it's just that aluminum machining comes once there's a reason for it, not before.
mp_en_viaje: " belong. you wish a bitstream to appear a certain way on yoru terminal, step right up, ~adjust your terminal~.
mp_en_viaje: there's entirely no need of "utf/unicode/bs" ; the place where these go, as a mask atop bytes, is where "strings
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 23:13 mircea_popescu: IF you can't configure your termina, either get a better one or understand you're at fault for your own pain.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 23:07 OriansJ: asciilifeform: no where did I say null terminated strings; it could be length prefixed strings but support for strings needs to exist in a human readable bootstrap.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907101 << why ? consider the problem of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869285 ; what ELSE is supposed to be an os primitive ? maybe, code colorization too ? maybe the os should have a native concept of "what the data means to you" ? ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 21:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907023 << whytheFUCK wouldja want the nullterm-string warcrime to exist on a brand-new arch ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:59 OriansJ: Mocky: Don't get stuck on the idea of Floating point, it is just an example of classes of instructions that are complex to implement in hardware that a proper illegal instruction trap will allow us to move between hardware and software with no one else having to care what we are doing. As we want people programming to standards not to systems.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907069 << no, but see, we discovered a significant disconnect here. we DO. NOT. SUPPORT. ANYTHING. fuck them all. there's no pseudo-"friendly" postelism contemplated, there's no incumbent desire or inclination to "provide" for a vague, imagined "audience" clamoring somewhere downstream. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: likbez : any machine that can simulate itself is turing-complete. the word "machine" is meant most abstractly, something as bare-bones as maths people would call "a function" could conceivably qualify. an ~imagined~ tape with a theoretically defined reading head associated eminently qualifies. and so on.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:41 OriansJ: Mocky: floating point support is part of being turing complete. We can either bitch about how bad it is (Like the old MIPS engineers) or accept the reality and figure out a why that costs us the least.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907057 << it was remarkably painless in munich ; some turkish i think dood in a tobacconist-7/11mix, took all of five minutes. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: it's arguably a defensive hack in the era of the 8 bit byte ; but with 64 bit bytes... gimme a break, what does legacy nonsense buy anyone. no "floats".
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 01:00 OriansJ: We definitely don't need hardware support for floating point though (just a set of defined encodings for floating point instructions and a clean exception mechanism which allows an operating system or a library to implement via software routines)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907044 << i actually don't think "floating point" is a good idea altogether. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907040 << this is actually a solid point. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: "The system used to run several central message servers around the world for redundancy, but in 2017-2018 upgraded to Amazon Web Services that provides a geographically-redundant cluster of virtual servers with dynamic load balancers and global content-distribution." ie well ripe.
mp_en_viaje: but since ima be this side for a while...
mp_en_viaje: depends what you're doijng, you know, if i go to visit prague for a week i don't take the whole menagerie.
diana_coman: it's not hard to have a lot of luggage, sure; though I never really regretted having smaller luggage as it were (and I almost always find it too big, too much anyway!)
mp_en_viaje: 200kgs for one thing ; and then... at a bitcoin a kg or some shit...
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907026 << i can't conceive what small endian ~even is for~. what is it for ? i'm against even supporting it altogether, you want to computer, use a computer that netowrk oders. ☝︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: but! c) i show up, explain i got 3 people but ~200kgs of luggage (i'm fucking diana ross over here) and their idea was to.... pay for ticket, after which show up at airport, ~with no carrier guarantee whatsoever~. "pay us so many thousands to put yourself in such a spot, we can ask for any moar moneyz we think of". ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: and talking of zee germanz : a) lufthansa dun have offices anymore, it only deals through agents ; b) which charge a fee ON TOP OF A FEE. because lufthansa not only doesn't operate offices anymore -- it charges anyone who does 16 euros. it's like they think they're a happening nightclub or something, gotta pay a cover to be allowed to pay for drinks.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:12 OriansJ: If one doesn't want to have a boot rom; one needs either a hardware tape reader (which writes tape to memory on power on and jumps to address 0 to run it or a toggle board. A serial bus just moves the bootstrap trust issue to another piece of hardware
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:57 bvt: to my understanding there are two questions: 1. what are the requirements to the architecture 2. what is the first interim stop after a post-M1 assembler?
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907014 << actually my own questiosn are different. line 1 : is this a live project or is it mostly scar tissue left behind a dead dude a la http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/ ; line 2 how pantsuit-infested is it, actually, can we work together or will we have to fork if we intend to. basically, "looks remarkably good, i wonder what's the catch" phase. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: got a blog ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:53 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards to bootstrapping.
mp_en_viaje: meanhile in local flavour, /me is having a very credible sasuage, bean, poached eggs on toast, extra stout guiness breakfast at this rather coquettish pub, while watching the waitress tryina pick up the maintenance man.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:51 OriansJ: well let me ask it this way; are you planning to use a posix subset or a subset which will portable upon posix and other OS bases?
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907005 << this part is actually up in the air ; and premature yet for me to call for discussion or attempt a standardization process. from your pov, however, likely the most shocking aspect is that the republic doesn't consist of the usual developer, ie http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/ aka the enthusiat dork who sees himself as some kind of trailblazer, finding new ways into the ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906994 << the long term expectation, along with the only possible direction, is the republic prevailing, in this as any other matter. there's a lot of ideological debt you may be interested in i guess. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:26 OriansJ: bvt: well to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier to implement than a C subset; the problem however is always available contributors.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906987 << the lordship list is over at http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ ; those are all (if not the only) contributors. in the immortal words of joe polito, "i'm telling you, as a courtesy. i need to do this thing, so it's gonna get done". ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906980 << yes ; progressing from a gentoo fork end, from an ada-as-systems-language end, from a bitcoin-has-to-be-an-os / needs-own-fs end, and from a few other too small to list yet. ☝︎
PeterL: seems to be a function of how far from the price listed elsewhere that you start it ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Quite a lot of bidding this month ☟︎
asciilifeform: OriansJ: you may find it interesting that a number of noobs wrote own vtron, rather than bothering to audit the old; the former is generally easier than the latter
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 08:49 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 <-- don't you find it weird, though, that you say this, and then after just a few lines you http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907238 ? this is not a rhetorical question: you're unimpressed by the recorded 5+yo history of discussions of a group of ~actual people~, and the reflection therein of their ~actually doing~ things; and then immediately you go on to referen
asciilifeform: iirc we encountered 1 of these at least 1ce before -- a fella who didn't want to keep either python or perl around on his machine, but wanted to v
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 00:29 asciilifeform: OriansJ: then have, e.g., 'v' : http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 12:01 OriansJ: now I am willing to build from source tools (after an audit) that will work with v; so that I can interact with the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor trust anyone who has previously audited the code; I am left with the bad option of setting up a burn box to view the patches.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << i formerly thought that this was obvious from the docs , but you ~can~ operate on vpatches without a vtron ( they're edible by trad. unix 'patch' util, and you can verify the sigs with anyffin roughly gpg-like , also by hand ) ☝︎☝︎☟︎
OriansJ: phf: I have always felt precise and clear communication can only occur when both parties are open to the expression to incomplete thoughts with the goal of synchronize understandings. Otherwise the communication style is forced into a form of data dumps with long load times and a general ineffectiveness of cooperation between individuals; particularly when the delta between individuals is large.
phf: OriansJ: so i've thought about it, expressing concepts in forms for general consumption is a bad coping mechanism from a life time of being the smartest person in the room (assuming that it's not a ruse or self-delusion and you _are_ actually capable of clear thinking). problem is that it makes you lazy and rots the brain, and then when you're in the room of equals or superiors you suddenly discover that you're not practiced at ☟︎
phf: oh you just don't support html in general (presumably you still http with something like wget), i think your position would've been a lot stronger if you just said so, rather then something something tor browser. i'm vaguely curious what "non-turing complete svg subset" is, but that's a stone that will have to be turned some other time
OriansJ: now I am willing to build from source tools (after an audit) that will work with v; so that I can interact with the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor trust anyone who has previously audited the code; I am left with the bad option of setting up a burn box to view the patches. ☟︎☟︎
OriansJ: phf: It is on a seperate machine; The svg subset that isn't turing complete is enabled and working.
phf: oh, why not put your explorations on a separate machine, and have one machine that's in actual working order? unless you've made a conscious choice not to support svg in your stack, your stack appears to be broken
OriansJ: phf: the cost of trying to interact with those that don't share one's values; for the sake of hopefully learning something of value or finding a fruitful cooperation.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907277 << it works fine without the javascript, i use it regularly in lynx (and occasional exotic browsers like netsurf), but i suspect it will fail in a browser, that both fails to display SVG and then fails to display a link map ☝︎
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 <-- don't you find it weird, though, that you say this, and then after just a few lines you http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907238 ? this is not a rhetorical question: you're unimpressed by the recorded 5+yo history of discussions of a group of ~actual people~, and the reflection therein of their ~actually doing~ things; and then immediately you go on to referen ☝︎☝︎☟︎
OriansJ: the javascript requirement is a bit odd though for the patches page ☟︎
asciilifeform: ave1 has a bare-iron gnat port.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu & diana_coman for instance have a multiplayer game. lobbes has various useful automata (e.g. auction bot) . http://therealbitcoin.org exists. and plenty else.
asciilifeform: ^ is what we use for a versionatron. exclusively.
asciilifeform: OriansJ: then have, e.g., 'v' : http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system ☟︎
asciilifeform: OriansJ: lotsa folx over the years landed in the logs, and thought 'these people sit and philosophize and what'. but plenty of examples of working mechanism , if yer interested to study. http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=49 for instance is a just-short-of-done constant-time 0-dependency cryptoarithmetizer.
asciilifeform: it's a straight single-purpose logic circuit, would fit in a hundred or so 74xxx discretes if you felt like it
asciilifeform: fg doesn't even contain a vonneumann cpu
asciilifeform: ^ i.e. a unit suspected of containing hidden functionality vis-a-vis any other existing unit, can be 'slaved' to the latter , and the outputs compared.
asciilifeform: ( and deterministically testable for 'doing what's printed on the box' . you pump a coupla TB of known bits through it, and observe that the expected outs in fact came out )
asciilifeform: OriansJ: if you're interested in concrete approach of asciilifeform to design of iron, i invite to study http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html , item asciilifeform designed & sold ( two runs sold out 100% , possibly in near future we bake a 3rd, on ice40 and photoscintillator , as discussed in logs )
asciilifeform: there's, y'know, a whole net of elsewhere to be
BingoBoingo: Some futher organization of the literature would probably help with initiations, but first asciilifeform needs to catch a transcription slave
OriansJ: and have you put all the possible enhancements into a common place for reference?
asciilifeform: from pov of this thread, it is a practical example that sane (i.e. typechecking & boundschecking of ALL memory accesses) iron in fact existed, and even fit in 1980s vlsi (2um)