log☇︎
12500+ entries in 0.333s
mircea_popescu: jurov, don't worry about it or anything, i mostly use it as an ideal construct to smack alf over the head with educationally.
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824587 dpb sent the crate to me, don't remember whether he kept some. i planned hosting, recently found out the designated "colo" place got rainwater leaks, postponed ☝︎
mircea_popescu: spyked, ill tell you why. cuz most "geeks" that are "interested" can't compile anything.
spyked: I've also found some work aimed at replacing some blobs ( https://github.com/crust-firmware/crust ), but I've currently no way of checking whether that really works (don't have an allwinner board atm), so this is where my digging stopped.
spyked: revisiting the allwinner arm blobulism discussion for a moment (re. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-08#1821639 and maybe other threads). I've looked at the olimex shithub repo ( https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/tree/master/SOFTWARE/A64-TERES ) and there are indeed some binaries that I can't trace to any source, namely: the kbd firmware and the 'scp.bin' blob. olimex also include a boot0.bin (no idea why, since this is also generated ☝︎
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform doesn't throw coins at folx who aint even truly born yet. but asciilifeform worx with much smaller budget .
mircea_popescu: "oh, don't send bitcoin to noobs unprepared to appreciate what it is".
mircea_popescu: though, amusingly, the costa rican standard of food service is "solo bueno", which literally means they'll waive charges for items you didn;t like.
asciilifeform: d00d prolly saw 'wtf masonic ritual, why am i here, in kitchen there is vodka and it won't drink itself'
trinque stopped what he was doing to help, guy couldn't lift a finger.
asciilifeform: ( i daren't to even dream about finding ones with ~whole~ )
trinque: this isn't comcast technical support, might find me getting to it when I get to it too.
asciilifeform: trinque: cut the fella a bit of slack, he doesn't yet grasp that he's come to olympus, thinks he's in village pub still
cnomad: ok then don't
cnomad: i guess i didn't update my site
asciilifeform: cnomad: i ain't about to sponsor a team of lunch eaters.
cnomad: success isn't guaranteed but you could make a lot of headway for future research
asciilifeform: at least, asciilifeform isn't
asciilifeform: cnomad: we ain't about to pay for 'tried'
cnomad: so, some advice, if you want -- competition format for long term research is not a great motivator, since it doesn't guarantee that someone will get paid for their time
asciilifeform: he doesn't show up in the deedbot www yet
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu doesn't see how the contest can be set up without creating a refereeing clusterfuck, or enriching alice_m, then i refuse to ask him to put any coin into any such thing.
asciilifeform: but if it can't be done to mircea_popescu's satisfaction, i'd rather not do it at all.
mircea_popescu: and if you want to be trusted, why aren't you trusting ?
asciilifeform: what exactly is wrong with 'if, for any reason whatsoever, pill doesn't work in fw released on aug 1, the 2nd half of prize will be returned to the pot contributors' ?
mircea_popescu: i think the principal result of the discussion is, "can't have multi-pronged or articulated contests"
asciilifeform: but if it dun get tried, than it won't have been tried. or sumthinglikethat.
mircea_popescu: maybe ~THEY~ don't swing that way ?
mircea_popescu: hence -- marriage. that prostitution contract whereby if the fuck doesn't take, worker's obliged to re-do.
asciilifeform: esp. given a politically reliable ( and why shouldn't he be ) referee.
asciilifeform: it isn't trivial. but i can only with difficulty picture a contest where it is easier than in this one.
mircea_popescu: i don't think money works like you think it does.
mircea_popescu: it may be the case, now and again, that your own fetishes aren't a worldwide concern.
phf: i don't think "can still buy and diddle of amazon in a month" is adequate test for "didn't leak the patch to google". but i don't think there's a procedure to test the goal in general (see absence of evidence above). perhaps you could restate the goal, but then whatever restatement i'm not sure it will be under the control of the participant. in fact as mircea_popescu pointed out, a restatement of this particular goal simply introduces a random element
mircea_popescu: "what the fuck is your problem ?" "i just spent all day telling teenagers they're ugly because they don't have three tits".
phf: mircea_popescu: _procedure_ is testable, but it doesn't necessarily verify the _goal_ (following my adhoc terminology above)
phf: goals and procedures inadvertently put the arbiter in the position of affirming that the goal has been or been not achieved but without following own procedures. in other words you want me to potentially call that the source has been leaked to google, but rely on a procedure that i can't possibly consider adequate for the verification.
phf: asciilifeform: my thinking is that your goals ("didn't leak to google") ought to be separate from the testing procedures ("can buy from amazon in a month"). some of your goals are potentially untestable and it's up to whoever's doing independent verification to come up with the procedure for testing, or dismiss the goal as untestable. then up to you to either find a different arbiter, or agree not to pursue one of the goals. i think that providing both
mircea_popescu: so... i can't imagine the problem you're trying tro approach even exists, which is why i can't come up with a way to solve it.
mircea_popescu: you also can't prove you don't have cancer.
mircea_popescu: because it ain't.
mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
asciilifeform: it wasn't my doing , from that point.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 21:02 asciilifeform: it isn't even wholly about the machines, from asciilifeform's pov, asciilifeform would like to see the enemy bleed some, hear the laments , see the mules driven before him, etc
mircea_popescu: kim kardashian also routinely changes hands for price of ~lawnmower ; doesn't mean she's any good. they just like having their picture taken with her.
asciilifeform: i see a number of problems, 'it wasn't worth buying for $ 600' aint one.
mircea_popescu: i think you conflate economics and coolness. for one thing, an original trinitron bought the year sony came out with them was like 5k ? or some shit like that. for the other thing, 1k from 1988 is like 10-15k today. so... i don't see the $100k price tag that'd merely cover inflation.
asciilifeform: betcha you couldn't even if wanted to.
phf: asciilifeform: i'm up for a job of contest arbiter, i don't think that what you're proposing is arbitration. i thought that you're going to give goals, and it's up to me to evaluate if the goals have been achieved. but you want me to merely verify your procedure. that's fine, but that doesn't make me an arbitrator.
asciilifeform: lol no it wouldn't, i'd prolly buy a coupla dozen.
asciilifeform: if i can't get another d00d to play the tuba while i do the drums, what merit can there be in contest.
mircea_popescu: gotta pick what you pick ; and as per the common sense notion, if your job isn't a good fit for any tool, your job's not a well defined job.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
asciilifeform: if we can't get somebody other than asciilifeform to stand up as referee, can't really have this contest imho. and a pill that gets immediately patched against by enemy , is of no use.
asciilifeform: really ideally somebody outside of usa , so they can't simply break down the door
phf: asciilifeform: i see, i'm sorry, but i don't think i can properly be called a referee under these conditions. i can do independent testing for you though, i.e. test against current c101pa, and against one that i purchase at a time you indicate.
phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own ☟︎
phf: the discussions after that though are all over the place, and introduce some requirements that i don't think i can arbitrate like "didn't leak the code back to google"
asciilifeform: i ain't about to try to get people to swear to eternal secrecy.
mircea_popescu: your idea is that "what if i don't have enough time to get to the store after contest is declared" ?
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, and if your model is correct, secret waits a month thereby ? what's in a month ?
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine we'll have such a deluge of these the clerical work keeping track is worh the hassle
mircea_popescu: why can't he just use phf ?
cnomad: i can't say i haven't considered it
mircea_popescu: no it doesn't.
mircea_popescu: !!rate cnomad 1 dood either ran off with my boards or else produced an image of some sort ; we don't know the future yet
cnomad: i don't want money, but thanks
diana_coman: funny how this hw guy can't even do as much as the girls with tits managed
mircea_popescu: douchebag, why can't he come in like normal people ?
douchebag: My friend says he's going to research it some more. He said he can have a unit by Friday, he thinks it'll be interesting because it probably hasn't had as much attention given to it due to low market share
douchebag: I didn't even know what a cr50 was 10 minutes ago
mircea_popescu: could just put a sane kbd driver in there and whatnot. i don;'t even fucking want google's kbd driver, they can shove it.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 15:46 asciilifeform: one interesting observation, is that the update mechanism lets you flash in arbitrary crapola into 'rw' section ( it simply won't jump to it if it doesn't pass rsa(sha256(payload)) ) . so theoretically could put a nop sled there, ending with jump into the magic half of unlock routine. and then expose the thing to beta/gamma, and perhaps in a few months it will Do The Right Thing
BingoBoingo: douchebag: Spiders and ticks aren't the only things that bite. Fumigate.
asciilifeform: douchebag: it isn't clear that heavy equipment is of any help. but if talented folx can be led to take an interest, by all means bring'em
mircea_popescu: douchebag, "parasite" isn't a class. but yes, arachnids.
mircea_popescu: let's not repeat the mistake that sunk america ; we don't even have an america to sink.
asciilifeform: it isn't even wholly about the machines, from asciilifeform's pov, asciilifeform would like to see the enemy bleed some, hear the laments , see the mules driven before him, etc ☟︎
mircea_popescu: well, say it can't be cleared, what.
asciilifeform: i mean this is one possible approach, when encountering a mine field that the current republicans + slavegurlz can't clear, to say 'eh it dun need clearing'
mircea_popescu: and i don't see why that shouldn't suffice.
mircea_popescu: "i don't believe in factuality of anything besides usg" is the cheapest brand of shit to eat.
asciilifeform: sometimes there is problem tho, where the prospective players don't believe in the factuality of the prize
asciilifeform: i can't speak authoritatively, but according to thirdhand folx, they had the usg naval keys for 20 yrs straight
mircea_popescu: and you know, like shinohai -- if you prod him he'll do some movements, like electrocuted, disembodied frog legs. and if you don't he'll sit. and then wonder why it didn't work out and why he's being so badly persecuted.
asciilifeform: well currently i'm out of ideas in re cr50; thought i'd try the 1 tool in the box i haven't unsheathed.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to cut this : either they do or they don't.
mircea_popescu: they won't work ; and paying them is counter-productive : it encourages them to not work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, and if zeptobars weren't fucked in the head, they'd have a !Z service here.
asciilifeform: however must point out, serious work does cost money; e.g. time on electron microscope, we saw what costs; and there is a population of folx who can make use of it, but can't steal enuff time on instruments, or , if they can, allocated it for something that actually pays the bills
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't expect that the google monkeys with access to the key, will willingly spill it ( tho this cannot be ruled out. ) idea was, possibly to get the same folks who currently sweat over ipnoje etc , interested.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does, to extent, but won't admit!11
asciilifeform: ( one even on record, as 'no i don't!111' , amstan )
mircea_popescu: ie, a) if indeed this guy exists that'd give tyou whatever for the whatever prize, and b) i know for certain that he wouldn;'t have otherwise, somehow then c) i'll send a gal over to tie him to a post, slice an inch of his abdomen, and slowly roll his inrtestine on a cat scratch pad.
mircea_popescu: if they can't do this, measured as "don't do this", a) the argument they were intelligent is tenuous and b) paying them is exacrtly thr wrong thing to do.
mircea_popescu: "it doesn't cost me anything" is how filthy person ends up with bug infestation, "oh, the jam they eat cost me nothing".
mircea_popescu: there wasn't a single noteworthy one in the whole bunch, yes ?
mircea_popescu: i didn't do that publicly for nothing, after all.
mircea_popescu: i still don't see the merit in this "pay" approach.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823965 << it will onlty follow if you exist. without a registered key, you don't. nobody's going to even pretend "that cnomad guy" is a thing, different or differentiable from any other http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ ☝︎