116700+ entries in 0.075s
ben_vulpes: this is for
the full contract period, mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: yeah, i remember
that
text from spelunking
mircea_popescu: "Looks like you
tried
to comment off a stale page. Reload
the article, count
to
three and
try again."
ben_vulpes: actually i betcha i do know, i had
to port
the comments widgetry
to
this
theme when i mpwpd myself.
ben_vulpes: yaok, i saw a comment earlier. no idea how it got in
there.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes fix
the comments
then i'll explain what i mean by reference
to it!
ben_vulpes: well, i don't quite know what you mean by "stretch capital". republic gotta have an ISP; and it should be able
to
turn a profit and pay
the foundation back. if it fails
to do
that, it'll be disappointing and i'll probably resign for mismanagement. initially mod6 and i were considering
taking
the entire venture on
through
the foundation when asciilifeform offered
to match.
mircea_popescu: so
the logic mostly went, "whole shit's on fire, gotta do
thing x,
thing x
takes dough,
the only available dough is in
this piggy, break it" ?
mod6: I'd note
that we were a bit reluctant
to do
this
to begin with -- hence
the late entrance
to
the venture. I
think we were hoping
that others would step and run it, but alas, no one did.
mod6: Yeah, had discussions around it --
The first sentence in paragraph
three kinda covers most of it.
mircea_popescu: in other news, ben_vulpes mod6 is
there some discussion
that was had in foundation board as
to
the wisdom/opportunity of commitment here ? are you basically
trying
to stretch capital or how exactly did
the logic go ?
mircea_popescu: i
take it
the comments never got
tested or anything ? anyways.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes every
time i
try
to comment it says "stale page".
ben_vulpes back later, looking forward
to mircea_popescu's comments
ben_vulpes: i'd been drafting what
turned into
the charter from very nearly
the very beginning;
there's no arrangements or agreements
that are not covered in
the linked document.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you want comments here ? or would rather
there ?
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated punkman -1 at 2016/06/02 13:53:07 <<
timewaster.
mircea_popescu: e is, "like a republic but with secret agreements". and it proved (again, not
to some sort of emo, but in actual practice)
to not be good enough.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 04:43 mircea_popescu: now - wut of all of
this ? maybe it was
the same guy, i guess, maybe
there was a conspiracy
to reboot
the server, i guess, maybe etcetera. i'm unconvinced nor do i see it matters any.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 04:59
trinque: appears
to me
the gents are getting
things
together for a clear, coherent offering.
hanbot: wrangling re buying fg from nsa, who handles suppliers, etc. punkman already
there
trying
to silver-tongue
them back into
the velvety embrace of pantsuitlandia.
hanbot: mircea_popescu basically
they made a constitution (
http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A5yUZ/?raw=true / just moved
to
http://pizarroisp.net/?p=3 ) yesterday,
there's no releasing of whatever private discussions prior.
they're going
to do some power
testing on customer boxes as a courtesy. ben_vulpes is going
to
take a few boxes
there maybe next month. BingoBoingo "unsnarled" an mp-wp of unknown provenance, sadly he can't use
the genesis item yet. some
hanbot: mircea_popescu sure
thing, gimmie a coupla mins
mod6: Totally srs
too
tho!
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 20:01 mod6:
This is
the moment when you affirm your support, or you do not, and
throw your hat in
the ring
to
take
the reigns from mod6.
mircea_popescu: and
this is
the financial statement of why socialism is always and necessarily a scam, while at it.,
mircea_popescu: ie,
there is an unbroken
tree of outright causes all
the way
to
the prime mover, we don't say "this is a scam" because emotionally.
mircea_popescu: alternatively i might've not sold, and pursue him.
this is
the sort of option capital offers one -- you can always
take your pick of
two options in
this vein. and if you can't, you've been swindled, not doing business.
mircea_popescu: but no, it wasn't a personal loan
to bb, it was a loan
to bb's corp which bb guaranteed ; but which guarantee i let lapse when i sold (ie, didn't
transfer
to you, ie, yo ucan't now ask him for 2 btc * 8k usd or w/e
the exact numbers were)
mod6: Ok,
that makes sense
to me.
mircea_popescu: mod6
the .8 was a cash payment,
the matter is entirely resolved.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's negotiated at some point.
there's lengthy practice on
the subject, of course.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:53 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: One
thing I've learned people watching here... It
turns out boys are
the shy gender.
mod6: (fwiw, I mearly read ".8 BTC debt
to MP" as something of a personal loan
to BB since he was owner)
mod6: I may, indeed, need some education on basic finance. When it came
to
the .8 BTC owed
to you, I never figured in anything like
that. Are
there
terms
that we were unaware of? Do you feel owed more
than .8 BTC?
ben_vulpes: for a convertible note like
that, how'd you go about setting
the conversion rate? lots of yelling?
☟︎ mod6: Alright, well, I
think I might be missing something between
the lines.
mod6: you figure, one in
ten should make it,
then you get your 5%.
mircea_popescu: because, obviously, if i lend
to someone who has 10% chances of surviving, i want 10x my money so i can lend
to
ten of
them and get a (slight, 5% sort of slight) profit.
mircea_popescu: anyway,
the formula above stands :
the capital (1 above) multiplied by
the discount rate (1.05 above) multiplied by
the survival odds (3 in
the 33% survival rate example ; could as well be 10 in
the 10% survival rate example, which iirc is what start-ups historically do)
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, is why us real estate first
time buyers pay 6% even
though
the fed rate is .75% ; and
this is HOW fed rates drive monetary policy. see ?)
mircea_popescu: if his survival rate is 85%, he pays FOUR
TIMES
the discount rate.
mircea_popescu: mod6 consider it with numbers. if a guy's survival probability is 95% and
the discount rate is 5%,
then for every coin he pays
to service his debt, HALF covers
the 95% and
the other half
the actual opportunity cost.
mircea_popescu: nobody
teaches
these (basic, really, should be highschool) notions, and so people don't understand how humanity is, and was built. but bonds are a very sensitive actuarial
tool,
they react amplifiedly
to death danger. whereas equity is a very sensitive
to gains. and more generally, finance is worth studying altogether, it makes one smarter.
mod6: Alright, so as
things in a start-up start
to go south business-wise, for whatever reason, i.e. product sucks, whatever,
the corresponding revenue/credit crunch makes it more and more difficult
to service
the debt.
mircea_popescu: the only possible solution is convertible debt, ie, if
they strike it big, you have some sort of claim, for
the risk you
took. and
that is why all start-up debt is really convertible bonds in practice.
mircea_popescu: so now ...
the COST of carrying capital as debt goes up immensely as soon as survival rates drop very slightly. start-up are notoriously unsurvivey, and so
their debt would cost so much as
to ensure
their failure.
mod6: mircea_popescu: yeah, in
this sense -- 33% being
the indemnity cost?
mircea_popescu: my capital will
then cost 1 * 1.05 * 3 = 4.15. so he has
to pay 3.15
to get
the 1.
mircea_popescu: if i lend a btc
to a guy, in a market where
the discount rate (what AVERAGE capital returns are as per a, like
the "cost of hotel rooms in
this season/city) is 5% and whose survival rate is 33%
mircea_popescu: like,
the bill for
the use of a hotel room is made up of a)
the opportunity cost (what
that room would have made if not given
to you but
to another) and b)
the indemnity cost (ie, what all you wore down, ruined, stained and destroyed in
there)
mircea_popescu: mod6 let's do a side
trip here and learn pricing of capital. so what would you say is included in
the bill for
the use of capital ?
mod6: Fair enough, I may have just looked at
the debt
to be paid
to you at face value -- just a simple bill
that needed
to be paid, as opposed
to 'bonds' or something else.
mircea_popescu: "you know what's better
than
tattoos ?" "hm ?" "scars" "but why ?" "at least
they're genuine."
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:51
trinque: so reform.
take your
texan short fuse and lengthen, or what, wrong file, sorry.
mircea_popescu: anyway ;
there's a lot of business experience in disparate fields
that has
to be handled, and often
the handling drives unexpected results and so on. part and parcel of
the problem is
that bitcoin ain't consumer finance and few people have any notion of anything else in
that whole wide field.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:50 diana_coman: mod6, a stake in something is never "debt only" really
the way I see it; honestly, would you offer
to
take an "iou" while at
the same
time being
totally unwilling
to even give advice if asked?
mircea_popescu: i am assuming so
too. if
the bill is balk-worthy we figure something out.
mod6: Any idea
the cost, ballpark?
mod6: I'm assuming
the cost for
these won't sink us right
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes forward it
to phf directly ; phf sorry for
the bondogle, send me
the bill for
the mailing ; danielpbarron invoice bbisp cc mod6 for
the pile.
ben_vulpes: send
them
to me please, stand by for mailing address
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes phf currently has
two dozen
that either fly
to you or back
to dbp, so which is it ?
mod6: I expect quick
turn around on questions -- As when emailing support, most queries can be responded
to quickly. Others, maybe
take 24-48 hours
to have sorted.
mod6: If I don't know
the answer straight off, will ask ben_vulpes or whomever needs
to be asked.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes / mod6 do you want
these ? (which one of you do i
talk about re day
to day bbisp bidniss ?). << you can
talk
to me any
time about
these
things, or anything else really.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm more interested in
the remaining supplies of fuckgoats; can i get a quote for 15 of
them?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:48 asciilifeform: lobbes: but do
they ?
the old serene republic, of venice, died
to a man. and here we are, picking up
the weapons
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently i have
to flag you as F on
them ; for which we have
to both be in. so at your leisure.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:30 a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other news i registered #loper-os and #asciilifeform defensively ; whenever you feel like building
them up say and i'll pass
them along.
shinohai: ikr? Remind me of some villain from
Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles or something.
mircea_popescu: they're pretty fucking cool. apparently
there's many species, BUT! most of
them have a buzz haircut!
shinohai: Afternoon, mircea_popescu .... enjoyed latest
trilema
thoroughly. Has been week of
toucans between you and hanbot ^.^
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:15 mod6: Upon
the failure of bbisp, and Mr. Popescu's leaving
TMSR,
The Bitcoin Foundation, in a last-ditch effort
to save
the ISventure and
the Republic (
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471), has chosen
to
try
to determine how / if it can do
this without any outside interference.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron if
they dun want
them, do you
take backsies ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes / mod6 do you want
these ? (which one of you do i
talk about re day
to day bbisp bidniss ?).
BingoBoingo: This is a point. During a solid chunk of my formative young adult years my brain was somewhat insulated from a lot of
the fiat world crap
through having been preserved in cosmoline. And by cosmoline I mean cheap vodka.