log☇︎
12000+ entries in 0.104s
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910005 << this is very much a matter of http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/#selection-145.0-145.299 : i'm sure they do, because they're there. the question is not whether the siamese twins are connected, but whether their mother can be fucked into delivering any babies that aren't. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: granted, my old style library i grew up with was two to three degrees of magnitude larger than 9mb ; but it sure as fuck took a bunch of people way the fuck more than 15 hours to stitch it all together. and there's 60 seconds in a minute, not 10, and there's 60 minutes in an hour, not ten. and so the fuck on.
mp_en_viaje: takes 13 seconds and a working box to acquire a library these days ; whole thing can be done while coffee brews.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, this is both the traditional as well as a quite effectual way of learning things.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-25 15:09 asciilifeform: e.g. an auto-installable cuntoo that runs on commonplace irons and includes working gnat, vtron, etc. would save massive amount of work, vs. current situation where 'oh you bought a new box? here's a buncha toothpicks and glue'
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1909985 << quite very much so ; and it is i hope a shared goal to bring this item to the state of ye olde eulora client, where it jus tsplendidly worked, like apple shit always claimed to. ☝︎
spyked: diana_coman, tbh I'm not sure, so I'm posing it as a question. there's also prolly some merit to the idea of each bot having, optionally, a logotron attached to it (since it's already listening...)
asciilifeform: if it aint a seekrit, what do they make there ? accounting soft for ancient ibm iron ?
Mocky: no but working on my own team is pretty much a cake walk so I'm branching out to helping other teams and meetngreeting across business units making myself generally well liked and enjoying new friends ☟︎
asciilifeform: i could go on for literally a week and not even scratch the surface of this house of horrors.
asciilifeform: ditto unix 'signals', structured entirely around lack of a sane standardized tasking system
asciilifeform: ( the concept of 'memory protection', for instance, is entirely a product of the tardlang )
asciilifeform: re gcc, the obv. 1st reaction 'so fucking make it all conform to standard' leads nowhere, you cannot write e.g. a device driver in 'standard c' , as it dun give you even such basic thing full bitwise control of struct
asciilifeform: i.e. there is not and cannot be such a thing as a nontrivial c/cpp proggy that 'uses only what is in the standard'
asciilifeform: c lang 'standard' was such a sorry joke that this kinda thing is inevitable
asciilifeform: ( we know that a 15 y.o. kernel did build on tcc sans eggog, but afaik that's all that is currently known ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: bvt: as for c, i described in the prev. mp thread re the subj, it can certainly ~exist~ as a zoological specimen on sane iron, as it did on bolix. sorta how you can put cobol on yer box nao if you feel like it.,
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 14:36 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 << the idea isn't to get tcc to compile ada. the idea is to destroy gcc -- cut the "useful compilation half" into an ada compiler ; cut the shitlands compilation half into a small weight something else. there is no republican future for gcc as a gcc in the foss / linus-stallman sense of the term.
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1909969 << that clarifies the issue, thanks. i got momentarily confused because imho cuntoo (as gentoo repo snapshot) is too large to pull off http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909621 - i see no way to replace gcc with tcc and 'rebuild world' without rewriting ebuilds/getting a ton of errors; but should be realistic with something smaller (which i plan to do). ☝︎☝︎
PeterL: proof-reading welcom, I included a link to the pdf in a footnote
asciilifeform: ( not a specific criticism of ^item, but rather the unfortunate reality of 'meat ocr' )
asciilifeform: PeterL: nifty, nao just needs somebody else to do it again and see if ya missed a plus for a minus somewhere, lol
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:03 asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
asciilifeform: e.g. an auto-installable cuntoo that runs on commonplace irons and includes working gnat, vtron, etc. would save massive amount of work, vs. current situation where 'oh you bought a new box? here's a buncha toothpicks and glue' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: if, in the flow of that work, we discover something important enough that it requires a change of direction significant enough to actually use a new name, it's still improper to say the work put into finding the something was either lost or "not put into ultimate product".
mircea_popescu: this is basically a drill.
BingoBoingo: In local news the courts are the only thing keeping natural gas running in the country. https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/justicia-prohibio-en-forma-definitiva-control-obrero-a-sindicato-del-gas-201942417033
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909683 << do you mean the pdf/word in the vm1 directory? or whole repo with e.g. http://archive.is/E2iex#selection-3535.0-3561.54 ? if there is a single document, i'd definitely read ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 14:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << drop gcc entirely ; drop all c code entirely ; rely on tcc as a scripting language to turn whatever snippets of c into object code that we haven't yet thrown away ; and for quick prototyping, where one's stuck getting a mass of 1mn shitlocs interop with 10k loc's worth of a whole universe
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909614 << i can do some experiments with tcc-based linux; this may be a too big chunk if i start with cuntoo, but should be possible with some very minimal linux. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
BingoBoingo: And were the old bags in a rush to take up arms against anyone?
a111: Logged on 2014-03-21 17:44 asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is a rebuke,
mp_en_viaje: a forty-something galivanting about the world having girls strip naked in the middle of the mall to try on slutwear and kneeling in supermarkets is very unlike an eighty-something visiting new york in his tent.
BingoBoingo: Then there's the decades the Colonel had getting comfortable because the thought Europe wanted him to keep Africa in Africa. Maduro's always had the US beast bearing down on him, entire regime has had to be kept on a war footing.
mp_en_viaje: very unexpected at mp central ; wouldnt have made the book this way in a mn years.
BingoBoingo: The young one is a cucky dude
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:40 BingoBoingo: The old Pantsuitist Party the Colorados have a nearly 90 year old former President running even in their polls with some young derp. Colorados don't ever break 15% in intention to vote.
mp_en_viaje: at which point the olteni are a little taken aback, and one guy in the 2nd rank whispers in boss' ear
mp_en_viaje: "but do you understand there's more than a billion chinese people living in peace bla bla bla ?"
mp_en_viaje: chinese folk spend a while trying to figure out wtf happened, eventually manage to spot this Oltenia on german wehmacht maps from the 1800s.
asciilifeform still has a... towel. that father bought in bucharest, where it came from china -- in contravention of sovok fatwa
mp_en_viaje: there's a small ethnic group in sw romania, "olteni". one day they declare war to china.
mp_en_viaje: the whole "i just want to" item is just an artefact of this same problem ; examtaking is just a manifestation of the same behaviour. the principal-agent problem is the same damned thing. the brokenness of domestic arrangements in the us flow from the very simple "it
asciilifeform: ( fiber is a++ winner, it dun give a shit re capacitance, inductance, other devils of high-freq copper cabling )
asciilifeform: worked a++, and that's with hand-cut cheapo plastic fiber.
mp_en_viaje: yeah there was a galena thing
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 18:04 asciilifeform: ecl is a 'black art' incidentally. for instance, it runs 'backwards' voltagewise, with ground-as-positive, and needs negative supply
mp_en_viaje: possibly because for a long time the optic modems slow.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. mp_en_viaje is not the 1st to notice the absurdity of plugging a 2kg, 200watt eater into pc mobo )
mp_en_viaje: pump as you will. as a factual matter, conncted gpu fucks your board like a solid drinking habit fucks your slavegirl.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909764 << There was a window where the Radeons were much more efficient when it came to mining. Depended on the flavor of math getting fed to the card. AMDs loved the repetative bland stuff. ☝︎
asciilifeform: i actually have a (heathenisms) box here with '1070'
mp_en_viaje: even a 30w one has terrible effect on mobo lifetime.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, to sum up this thread before it runs away from us : i expect that if you design your own gpu, and we compare it (through what, who knows, maybe by then phf comes up with a magical differ that woerks on circuit designs) to the top of the range efficiency gpus (~100% of them nvidia products, tho not 100% of the nvidia products) you'll discover they're very similar.
mp_en_viaje: but the thing i interpreted that "tumour mass" you talked about to mean was this specific pattern, a sorta circular bundle.
mp_en_viaje: (note, i'm not even remotely saying 100% hand-made. but they had ~something~, that afaik was never found. and it sure as fuck wasn't just a software layer on whatever off the shelf verilogizer.
mp_en_viaje: not so hard to decap a 1070 or w/e and looksee.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you ever get hold of a die shot, it is possible to distinguish with naked eye, when 'compiled from rtl' and when 'hand-massage' . practical example of the former : https://s.zeptobars.com/baikal-Si.jpg
mp_en_viaje: and admittedly nvidia also had some shittier chips in this vein. but they also had a skunkworks core that did something that i dunno what it is.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, nah, listen to me, there's a lot of ways to prove this, including the massive gap in efficiency between the competition and nvidia's chips
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 19:49 asciilifeform: asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'
asciilifeform: they're actually an off-the-shelf item, asciilifeform at one time nearly bought a 2ndhand unit
asciilifeform: it's a quite large box of fpga, programmed in much same way as asciilifeform prototyped fg.
asciilifeform: they published a piece re the prototypetron.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i know for a fact that they do.
mp_en_viaje: and what i'm saying is that any meaningful gpu will be very similar to extant items. i do not expect there is ~any meaningful overlap, from a purely graphical pov, between extant cpu and sane cpu.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, not necessarily a matter in those practical terms. a bike / ride-on lawnmower "suffices" as automobile, but it is still ~ridiculous~, specifically by the very poor fit of design to usage.
BingoBoingo: Talvi has a campaign office a block and a half away. The campaign office is topped by a billboard selling Luis
BingoBoingo: Then there's about 20-40 fringe candidates spread across the major parties, their subdivisions, and the "why are they trying to compete on a national scale" parties
BingoBoingo: The old Pantsuitist Party the Colorados have a nearly 90 year old former President running even in their polls with some young derp. Colorados don't ever break 15% in intention to vote. ☟︎
BingoBoingo unsure what Harvard Pantsuit would want the salary of a Uruguayo Minister
asciilifeform: if the orcs suddenly woke up to this being a bit much of a lopsided exchange for 1 rattled old meatwagen, perhaps some of'em even have sumthing like a brain
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'phree gift' from reich invariably comes with 'and we get to appoint a harvard grad as yer minister of health' etc
BingoBoingo: And the thing ending over a couple bucks for an apostille
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: dunno what is this mythical beast, a 'phree' gift from usg
BingoBoingo: In efforts to stay poor, won't take a free ambulance: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/la-burocracia-de-asse-freno-la-donacion-de-una-ambulancia-para-minas-2019417152938
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 1st i saw the link to that thing, went 'eh, fossil', then went and ~read~, and 'wtf, where do i buy a chip with even half the doc of this'
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:12 asciilifeform: imho the so-called 'civilized' world ought to have to answer re why it failed to produce a product like this.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909569 << long list of shit they're to answer for. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: the ~exact same process~ through which an acceptable republican artefact is constructed is the ~exact same process~ through which a mind grows into republican form. the way you convince us to use your proggy is the way 15yo learns how to write a proggy we'll use. and so fucking on forever.
mp_en_viaje: but it is doubtless worth commenting upon how design-with-a-view-to-wot automatically resolves the "work/education '''disparity'''". ie, they "become" the same exact fucking thing that they were all along.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:06 asciilifeform would luvvv to read 'ffa-style' incarnation of such a work, where the chip is 'built up' from empty space in ~hour-long chunks. but prolly this won't exist until asciilifeform writes 1..
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909566 << who knows, maybe a 15yo now reading grows up to be useful, actual human being, as opposed to pantsuit mouthbreather. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:03 asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909564 << and the meat that'll do it will need a planet like saturn to live on. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
asciilifeform: as in the old sea story, 'move over, we are a 100,000 tonne battleship' 'no you move' 'no, you, we are battleship' 'we're a lighthouse'
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, or as buffett put it back in the day his brain still worked, "when a manager with a reputation for success attempts to tackle a problem with a reputation for intractability, it is the manager's reputation that ends up tarnished"
asciilifeform: sorta how there cannot be a serious engineer in liberia. ( why would he live in liberia )
mp_en_viaje: the "let there be a javascript interpreter for c, call it tcc or w/e, people can play with if theyr'e bored" is really the outmost of concession i can make to what is, ultimately, a shameful, abortive and utterly reprehensible outgrowth on human culture = the totality of everyone involved in computer systems design and implementatio nfor the past few decades.
mp_en_viaje: thus therefore, i do not see the need to continue supporting c as a mental construct. even having to reimplement "everything" (ie, practically, nothing at all) from outside is preferable to an attempt at continuing c.
mp_en_viaje: if i make someone work with c, it's perceived as a punishment.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, in general, i do not see there's any need for having a musl gcc in the first place.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. this item may be solvable w/ a bit of archaeology )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'gcc ladder', the orig boojum was the 'catch-22' where a musl gcc can only be built w/ another musl gcc , and the only working specimen trinque was able to find in the wild, was a gcc6
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 14:10 mircea_popescu: now in other lulz, check this out : http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.9948-9.10055 "This is a special mix of insertion sort and heap sort, optimized for the data sets that actually occur."
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 << the idea isn't to get tcc to compile ada. the idea is to destroy gcc -- cut the "useful compilation half" into an ada compiler ; cut the shitlands compilation half into a small weight something else. there is no republican future for gcc as a gcc in the foss / linus-stallman sense of the term. ☝︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: so a light and cheap shithead-interpreter
mp_en_viaje: the whole point is to turn c into what it actually is -- a sort of javascript the niggers to rakim'd in the head to use computers keep pissing out.