115200+ entries in 0.648s
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:55 asciilifeform:
trinque: lisps on cmachine may or may not have ever 'lived'. rather
than 'killed'. extremely hostile environment , where
the conventions of civilized life are unavailable , os api passes unbacked promises around, barfs mid-op in midst of arbitrary ops without any error handling, etc
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:51 phf: lisp failed
to even identify
the need for ffi, when it was standardized i don't
think
there even were lisps
that could or needed
to ffi, since
they all ran on lisp machines
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 15:02 mircea_popescu: (this is
the deep, and political meaning of
the rowhammer class of attacks : it has rendered amazon's business entirely worthless ; much like basic physics make
tesla be a paper-only usg venture, so now
the last remaining flagship. all hopes now pinned on googles artificial "intelligence" [and i guess "quantum" wank].)
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 15:46 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787216 << it seems rather,
that first you should evaluate
the
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787207 and see if indeed it makes sense, or it's just
the proverbial "first notion
that formed in head upon quarter seccond's apprehension of $item" ; if indeed it is needed, legitimately,
then
the next step is
to make a file handler
that eats your file as you want it on one hand and emulates fg
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:
the directly analogous
to 'hong kong' algo would be (brace yerself) separate processes for ada and c-crapolade, connected via ipc (under a unixlike, prolly 'domainsocket'). because otherwise,
they live in same process, and if c-crapolade is entrusted with making e.g. a valid adastring, it can lie about
the length and hose
the ada routine, or simply fandango over address space as c-crapolade is wont
to, and so forth.
mircea_popescu: and sorry for
the lengthy pastes, but guess who doesn't have
the sense
to permit /#selection
mircea_popescu: soldier
to be able
to effectively shoot enemy ;
to achieve
this goal we've provided some .45 caliber bullets, an array of nato-chambered rifles and a copy of alf's favourite panzer manual." holy fuck who
thinks like
this!
mircea_popescu: "It is very important for Ada 95 programs
to be able
to interface effectively with systems written in other languages.
To achieve
this goal we have supplied
three pragmas for interfacing with non-Ada software, and child packages Interfaces.C, Interfaces.COBOL, and Interfaces.Fortran which declare
types, subprograms and other entities useful for interfacing with
the
three languages." reads
to me like "it is very important for
mircea_popescu: if "hey doods, we're making a major fucking design change for
these reasons" doesn't get prominently communicated,
then what
the fuck does ? "girls can code" !?
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:21 phf: so ada95 only has from_c/to_ada, using char_ptrs/char_array, pointers only appear in ada2000. ~maybe~
they ran into limitations of
that interfaces,
that are somehow imposed by
the spec,
that we're missing (but running into effects of
that), so
to address
the issue
they introduced yet another method.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787272 << and maybe
they never said anything about
this anywhere nor is
there anyone in charge of
the project i could ask and he could point me
to
the log line nor anything else. bloody fucking hell. maybe. maybe i fucked
their mothers and
they never
told me
they got caught, and now i have a bunch of idiotic sons with congenital clap.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: also fucking
terrible comments interface you got
there ; how do i know how many
there are ? before clicking on
the article ; and how do i visually separate
them, and why aren';t
they numbered and so on.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: yes well. not what we're
talking aboot. and now i shall proceed
to reread
this monsterball.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite. anyway,
to summarize : some idiot (from argentina -- and you should have seen his overwhelmed, $10 an hour cafeteria worker expression when
the herd of pubescent latinas pinned him against
the wall) and some other idiot (luis whatever,
the director) COPIED
THE STRING "bram stoker's dracula" from a coppola production, unaware of either coppola or stoker, or even
the MEANING of
the ' possesive convention.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 00:22 mircea_popescu: but
this paradigm where "we will cater
to
the peniless but opinionated female herd, instead of
the rich and actually powerful white male" fucked
them over.
mircea_popescu: (the social milieu in which old men had, and alone had,
the gold
to pay for squeezing
the manna out of
the young hussies, which even created "dracula"
the original in
the first place, is of course long gone under
the weight of
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787190 idiocy)
☝︎ mircea_popescu: hence, successes. strikes me as
the c-ing-est, most adnotated, meaningless drivel approach possible. innit ?
mircea_popescu: what
they did, referentially, as hanbot cleverly pointed out, is
they called it "bram stoker's dracula" because
the coppola version, which is what spawned
this modern nonsense of young-male-vampire, CALLED it
that.
they have nfi who coppola was, or stoker for
that matter.
they just COPIED
THE STRING.
mircea_popescu: the lead was a YOUNG man. whereas stoker's dracula is fundamentally
the old guy.
mircea_popescu: they had been
to
the "theater", in
the very coquettish baroque building here, where i have coffee.
the play was some "Bram stoker's dracula" production, but of course it had nothing
to do with it, and you can
tell by
the following sign :
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 17:51 asciilifeform: c,cpp, not only do not have 'standard ffi' (
try an' link libs made by microshit, say,
to gnu's, or intel's ) but not even has standard... integer handling ( e.g. overflow is ~undefined~ condition ), didn't seem
to hurt its, if one dare use
the word, 'successes'
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787294 << but one wouldn't so dare. yes, i'm aware what passes for
theater among
the huts has more in common with punch and judy and organ grinding
than anything. speaking of which -- yesterday my coffee wasd disturbed by chorus of overexcited pubescent girlies.
☝︎ trinque: could still be said
that it helped kill lisp, if getting lisp
to
take root
takes longer
than c.
phf: lisp failed
to even identify
the need for ffi, when it was standardized i don't
think
there even were lisps
that could or needed
to ffi, since
they all ran on lisp machines
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 16:13 mircea_popescu: (this
team-up disparity, incidentally, can readily be explained in republican
terms ; it all revolves around
http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ -- specifically,
thinking people need a much larger sunken cost
to evaluate
their choices and come
to
the correct conclusion
they got none.
this is a lot more evident
to idiots. as
this disparity flows from
the definitions of
terms...)
mircea_popescu: phf back upstack,
the argument can be brought
that lisp failing
to standardize [the only item
that actually needed it]
the ffi is actually why lisp failed ; both as a standard and as a
technical solution.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can allocate actual arrays, rather
than pointer-arrays neh ?
mircea_popescu: in any case,
the english didn't force
the chinese
to understand what contracts are.
they just gave ~themselves~ passports and acted as if
they were in england.
mircea_popescu: phf i can't resolve
the antecedents, what is "that" in "that explanation" and what is "that" in "that would be
the concern" ?
phf: in
this case
though hong kong would be if we could beat
the authors of c code into providing ada conformant interfaces for us. because if you're
the same person who's writing ada and who's writing
the interop code (in ada or C, it doesn't matter) you're still "talking in orc"
mircea_popescu: evidently "entropy" requires, conceptually, a socket. a file is
thje opposite of
this, and
the opposition is rendered by
the word "specifically". a socket and a file differ in
that files have lengths, sockets have widths.
phf: i don't
think
that explanation quite addresses
the analogy,
though
that would be
the concern
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a lot of interfacing problems are actually exposed by ave1 's comment above, which could also be read in
the general form of "hey,
the fundamental problem of electric communications (ie, how
to make file and socket work
together) is STILL unsolved".
mircea_popescu: "hong kong", as in, "what
trade happens in your country will happen in english and as per english law" would be
the opposite of "unicode", conceptually.
mircea_popescu: "you can only
talk
to orc in barbar" problem was
traditionally resolved
through "extrateritoriality", ie make a base and shoot
the orcs
that fail
to grok what perimeter means.
mircea_popescu: but why can't you just have a
tolkienring class, in c,
that spits out proper data ?
phf: you can, of course, symbolics did it by writing own c compiler,
that
targeted genera. but "we" don't have our own os, or our own c compiler. so whatever calling conventions, data representation conventions and such
that C imposes and
that are baked into compiler/kernel/architecture is what you have
to write
to
mircea_popescu: im not sure i understand
the problem. explain
this
to me, why can't i
talk
to c world on my
terms ?
phf: common lisp sidestepped
that issue by not standardizing
the ffi at all, and
there are still hairy parts in all
the implementations.
there's fundamentally folly in
talking
to C word, which you have
to do on C's
terms
phf: so ada95 only has from_c/to_ada, using char_ptrs/char_array, pointers only appear in ada2000. ~maybe~
they ran into limitations of
that interfaces,
that are somehow imposed by
the spec,
that we're missing (but running into effects of
that), so
to address
the issue
they introduced yet another method.
☟︎ phf: mircea_popescu: my
thoughts exactly.
phf: i
think i'll write it up separately, because i like
the approach. you have a generic package pointers,
that you specialize with C
types, like Interfaces.C.Pointers (Index => size_t, Element => char, Element_Array => char_array), and
then you do explicit pointer arithmetic using procedures on
that.
mircea_popescu: i
thought
that kitty item is a bot at first, which is why i said hi. it's a woman.
mircea_popescu: jesus
that was a spelunking exercise, finding
that log.
phf: i
think i might've still used yet another ada/c interop. it's not
the char_ptr, it's interfaces.c.pointer
mircea_popescu: "the log" being
today 70 lines or 2k words. i don't
think
this ever happeend before in
teh history of irc.
mircea_popescu: ave1 is your dancing around
the entropy problem with files etc driven by
the fact you don't have a fg, incidentally ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and
that "good enough"... anyone reading
through
teh discussion of gpg in eucrypt comments, or in channel for
that matter can readily grok just how fucking uselessly broken gpg is. yet "good enough" for everyone else.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 23:49 mircea_popescu: hey shinohai where was
the official kleopatra sauce ?
mircea_popescu: we will evidently have a ffa-based, canonical gpg replacement. EVENTUALLY. until such an eventually, i don't feel so great recommending anyone gpg (or, heavens help us,
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774477 -- just as i had
to do, and recently). so a drop-in, eucrypt-based, "good enough" item is more
than useful.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 14:38 ave1: I've started on
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-28#1786498, in Ada code and now I'm debating if I shouldn't just move
the code
to C as
the eucrypt interface is C. But
then maybe eucrypt will move
to FFA someday in
the future and Ada will be a benifit. (Working on code with lot's of C calls in Ada is not nice...)
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787224 << i don't expect eucrypt will ever move
to ffa.
this is in no sense a disidence, or any negative comment on ffa whatsoever.
they are intended and designed as very different usecase solutions -- note
the speed differential incumbent. eucrypt works as a "good enough" item, it principally intends
to support a game, and same-level crypto needs. it's consequently
to be light, fast, and ~r
☝︎ mircea_popescu: (this
team-up disparity, incidentally, can readily be explained in republican
terms ; it all revolves around
http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ -- specifically,
thinking people need a much larger sunken cost
to evaluate
their choices and come
to
the correct conclusion
they got none.
this is a lot more evident
to idiots. as
this disparity flows from
the definitions of
terms...)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: sadly
the idiots
team up faster and easier
than
thinking people do, so instead of linux driving nvidia out of business,
the vice-versa occured.
mircea_popescu: whole fucking IDEA of a kernel was exactly
this, "fuck you $vendor, if you need a whole programming language
to init your pos peripheral YOU support it ; we'll just grin from
the sidelines while
the marketplace drives your inanity out of itself".
mircea_popescu: but just like we don't do
the esthlos "o hai guise, i contribute half hour every
third week between my radiomodelling hour and my watching cheerleader sports in
the den" github dev model, we also don't do
the "we'll underwrite your complexity under our brand"
torvalds approach.
mircea_popescu: it is not an idle comment
to observe
that
the universalist nature of pantsuitism manifests here exactly as everywhere --
their sad, broken cargocultish
tech-ersatz does exactly what
their sad, broken fake of an economy etc : rolls up
the small costs into a larger one
to be paid "in
the future", which
to
them is a
term of art specifically meaning never.
mircea_popescu: this a) would be actually simpler, in engineering
terms,
than
the other possible approach your mind immediately ran
to (simple, here, is a
term of art -- it includes all costs, maintenance, readability, etc) ; and b) it keeps complexity where complexity belongs, which is
to say upon
the shoulders of
the
thing
that wanted it in
the first place.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 14:20 ave1: I want
to use a single "entropy" file.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 14:27 ave1: I'll have
to
think about it, I do not want
to make changes
that make
things more complex for "reasons" and
then more complex enzovoorts enzovoorts. And
then end up with PGP
a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 14:23 ave1: nice code BTW, very easy
to read and understand.
ave1: k, will install
the client
this week-end (instructions seem not
that hard
to follow)
diana_coman: as
to
trying eulora: it's not
time consuming really; I guess
the initial jump can seem intimidating until you figure out what is what and what
to do
diana_coman: trouble with
the future is
that it is...the future; I'd have gladly avoided C all
together but unfortunately mpi is in C and
then eulora relies on a lot of C code still
a111: Logged on 2018-02-28 15:57 mircea_popescu: ave1 you should ; also read
through
the eucrypt
thing, ima (for instance) need someone
to package it into a cmd line gpg replacement as soon as next wek.
ave1: I've started on
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-28#1786498, in Ada code and now I'm debating if I shouldn't just move
the code
to C as
the eucrypt interface is C. But
then maybe eucrypt will move
to FFA someday in
the future and Ada will be a benifit. (Working on code with lot's of C calls in Ada is not nice...)
☝︎☟︎ ave1: No, not yet, I want
to do
that one of
these days. (Real life keeps interfering)
ave1: Well
the nice code comment was not about
the MPI part!
diana_coman: but for now it survives as it is because
there are so many other
things
that are more pressing, sigh
diana_coman: heh,
there is
that slippery slope; and note
that in all
that
there, it's still
that darned mpi
that is
the biggest part and I am absolutely not convinced it has
to be
THAT big
diana_coman: for completeness:
there is in fact a performance penalty for opening/closing
the entropy source repeatedly, so from
this point of view yes, you'd want it open and reused;
that being said, it's not a massive penalty and atm I can live with it
ave1: I'll have
to
think about it, I do not want
to make changes
that make
things more complex for "reasons" and
then more complex enzovoorts enzovoorts. And
then end up with PGP
☟︎