asciilifeform: mod6: think for a minute: an orhpaned patch has no descendants.

asciilifeform: is the only way the graphs can differ.

asciilifeform: somebody has buggy vtron.

asciilifeform: of course there is

asciilifeform: waiwat

asciilifeform: hm?

asciilifeform: ad infinitum

asciilifeform: patch for whom antecedent does not exist, gets ignored

asciilifeform: you gotta recurse

asciilifeform: though mod6 probably knew this already.

asciilifeform: the flow is wrong

asciilifeform: consult phf's displayer , http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable

asciilifeform: when you zapped the sig for asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch

asciilifeform: mod6: look here: asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch should have been orphaned in your flow

asciilifeform: see where it goes with -F 0

asciilifeform: and the output would have been the expected one

asciilifeform: or patch would not have tried to fuzz at all

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: (we already learned that your antecedent checker failed, but now gotta find out why)

asciilifeform: mod6: it will at least die correctly

asciilifeform: i am still waiting for something like a logical argument for why patch fuzz existed.

asciilifeform: because, somewhere, monkeys are more concerned with 'appeared to work' than with 'correct output', or so author imagined

asciilifeform: fuzz is this horror where gnu patch tries to hammer square stick into round hole by default

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: (presumably you omitted disabling fuzz because you had, in theory, the hash antecedent check. but why not 'belt and suspenders')

asciilifeform: mod6: and yes, your hash checker apparently broke, if the fuzz thing was able to come into play

asciilifeform: (in case it isn't obvious, this was dangerous, and i did warn folks)

asciilifeform: correct, it did not, it instead invoked patch with zero fuzz

asciilifeform: look at how my vtron invoked 'patch'

asciilifeform: ever.

asciilifeform: that should NOT be there

asciilifeform: mod6: grep for 'fuzz'

asciilifeform: mod6: problem

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: priests can stay fat for so long as there is fat to harvest. for so long as ~other~ people economize.

asciilifeform: google et al are not commercial orgs in the usual sense, and haven't been for years, they are religious institutions

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is quite like saying catholic church has nfi who to hire.

asciilifeform: ftr i found bitcoin to be a very interesting thing (after, like many other people, very narrowly failing to come up with it) but couldn't stand ~bitcoin enthusiasts~ at all, barfed immediately when saw tardstalk, and #bitcoin, and will also admit, early #b-a

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'curious re bitcoin' since shortly before 2010, but no good notes; but for some reason did not occur to me to visit irc folx until 2012

asciilifeform: at the time i was doing a great deal of passive lurking, trying to draw a picture that might lead to the shangri-la where the smart folx live

asciilifeform: fwiw i definitely wasn't fully 'tuned in' until after the mpex review thing

asciilifeform: but how the hell did i wander into #b-a, i still cannot remember.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the article on oct 11 2012. so this makes sense

asciilifeform: so apparently there i was

asciilifeform: (2012)

asciilifeform: Oct 11 15:48:50 <mircea_popescu> There's no drama like Bitcoin drama. The "will pirate make contact" storyline returns tomorrow and the new season of "will BFL deliver" starts in a couple of weeks. It's like reality TV without the ads. Which well-known Bitcoin business will suddenly fail next? Who should be voted off the libertarian island?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in what year was 'Oct 06 11:33:00 <PeterLambert> I guess there is no need for glbse trading funds without a glbse' on your machine ?

asciilifeform: nope

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: #b-a

asciilifeform: Oct 11 22:25:56 <asciilifeform> Please comment: "Shitcoin: a Modest Proposal." (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988)

asciilifeform: oh hah turns out that i was wrong about when first spoke, also

asciilifeform: ...

asciilifeform: Oct 06 11:29:23 * Now talking on #bitcoin-assets

asciilifeform: **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 6 11:29:23 2012

asciilifeform: nope

asciilifeform: possibly tuned in and then immediately out.

asciilifeform: this pile consists only of what came out of the hose.

asciilifeform: nah it wouldn't be in that particular pile.

asciilifeform: 'there' in the sense of reading.

asciilifeform: i dug on my disk just now to try and recall when i ~tuned in~ and apparently it was much earlier, and i can't even recall why.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: feb.2 of 2013 was when asciilifeform first ~spoke~ there

asciilifeform: which is itching in my head, because i have nfi how i could have ~found~ it prior to the letter from hanbot

asciilifeform: hm.. looks like i was in #b-a on oct. 6, 2012, and after, but apparently never spoke....

asciilifeform goes to pull own log out of dusty pit

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142550 , http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142536 << lel, there must be a missing piece, did i really appear in the log before saying anything ☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: neato

asciilifeform: phf: is there an automagical way to query when $nick first appeared ?

asciilifeform: this was... #otc ..?

asciilifeform: ooh

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the thing is a flame, and it was not obvious to me either on 1st pass.

asciilifeform: it's the pl d00d, with the pirate tv station in the solidarity years, the antarctic expedition, etc

asciilifeform: (if a111 doesn't answer in $time) ☟︎

asciilifeform: hm for some reason i thought we had autofallover on scriba ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can easily simulate this by deleting a seal

asciilifeform: the most recent one of these to pop was the german thing

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: randos throw in pgp keys still, half dozen or so in a month typically

asciilifeform: in other non-news, https://mjos.fi << possibly interesting d00d of the dan bernstein type

asciilifeform: and will reboot again in another 5.

asciilifeform: for all i know - five seconds ago.

asciilifeform: who the hell knows when it started running.

asciilifeform: 'since it started running' sounds 100% useless

asciilifeform: aah

asciilifeform: the other bot -- broken, or wat.

asciilifeform: hm

asciilifeform: !~seen vc

asciilifeform: we had this with at least 1 d00d who i respected (spandrel/'bloody shovel') ☟︎

asciilifeform: the one with the pirate radio.

asciilifeform: aha it's the ceglowksi d00d!

asciilifeform: lulzy

asciilifeform: 'AI risk is string theory for computer programmers. It's fun to think about, interesting, and completely inaccessible to experiment given our current technology. You can build crystal palaces of thought, working from first principles, then climb up inside them and pull the ladder up behind you.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: lel yudkoswkyism

asciilifeform: on the other hand, if asciilifeform were to decide to speak ebcdic one day, we would have a problem talking.

asciilifeform: or how my display gamma is set.

asciilifeform: just as ben_vulpes has 0 particular reason to care how asciilifeform laid out his keyboard, or that it weighs 6kg

asciilifeform: that's what 'harem end' means -- that it literally does not matter how it works, except TO YOU

asciilifeform: (the seals and keys also must be public, naturally, but i am referring to the collective 'set' here)

asciilifeform: and each man -- wrote his own.

asciilifeform: hypothetically we could live exactly the same way with NO published vtrons at all!

asciilifeform: the only necessarily public part, i will point out, is the vpatches

asciilifeform: a hypothetical vtron with a correct forum-end and a disastrously broken harem-end can only hose ~the owner~

asciilifeform: the harem end -- presses, and does miscellaneous housekeeping ops (e.g., 'origin')