asciilifeform: (and i will also note, mircea_popescu's method puts serious mechanical stress on a part of tmsr that is at present time not well-developed -- navigation of elaborate, deep, and TIME-VARIANT relationships between wot inhabitants)☟︎
asciilifeform: and it is worth discussing ~how~ to best live with it.
asciilifeform: in this vein mircea_popescu's answer '1 man, 1000 keys' is probably the closest thing to practical solution proposed, but imho it does not eliminate the problem, it is still something that must be lived with
asciilifeform: ( or to have to choose between this, and silence/cowardice )
asciilifeform: but until then , need tools that let folx take MEANINGFUL responsibility, rather than volunteering at every turn to hang for things that they NEVER TOOK PART IN☟︎
asciilifeform: not silicon, not chairs, knives, forks.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: understand, i would like to live to see the day when we use NOTHING at all that is not from the wot.☟︎
asciilifeform: because unfortunately lenin was right when he wrote 'we build new world from the planks of the old shithouse we blew up, not from imported brick'☟︎
asciilifeform: and trb-genesis let it be CLEARLY and PERMANENTLY marked as not-child-of-mine, for each of the signatories.
asciilifeform: but Framedragger has a larger and imho relevant point, the ecc in trb is part of the world-as-we-found-it
asciilifeform: if it were larger it would most assuredly cause me to spend considerable money to arrange its removal.
asciilifeform: the rotting beast is anything but passive from my pov.
asciilifeform: does it follow that ' tmsr uses dead groundhogs in production ' ?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: there is, at this very moment, a rotting dead groundhog under asciilifeform's shed.
asciilifeform: trinque: a good chunk of the appeal, i dare say, of trb, is the ~pedigree~
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu still does not use trb to touch actual megacoinz
asciilifeform: the problem, hypothetically, begins years from now, when i am living in nazi dome in antarctica, or long dead, etc. but at any rate moved past all of this; and other folx pick up shiva and decide that it is now 'safe'.
asciilifeform: (my original aim with tinyscheme was strictly to weld an interactive debugger into own trbtron.)
asciilifeform: it was quite clearly marked as a mortally dangerous thing, for laboratory use only.
asciilifeform: trinque: the specific cure to 'not my fault, i Just Found It' is specifically the human-readable comments. which i included plenty of , including asciiart jolly roger, in shiva glue patch.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: planning to join adlai?
asciilifeform: trinque: now consider mircea_popescu's objection to the way i structured shiva patches.
asciilifeform: all i ask is that said act not require a collective head nod.☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: in that instance, a number of people were able to sign some code without taking ~any~ authorship responsibility, but strictly to proclaim historical authenticity and provenance,
asciilifeform: trinque: consider the trb-genesis as a successful use case of the thing i am asking for.
asciilifeform: there is no mechanical way of preventing idiocy.
asciilifeform: imho this necessarily goes with 'not my code -- not my responsibility '.
asciilifeform: trinque: my aim in writing 'v' was to enable 'my code -- my responsibility '
asciilifeform: (2) can, with rivers of sweat, be -- theoretically-- subsumed into (1), but most folx who think that they have done this for a nontrivial program, are deluding themselves
asciilifeform: trinque: understand, i ~like~ docs, version histories, literate comments, and use'em in own work. but hey do not solve the problem from subj thread in a permanent and unambiguous way.
asciilifeform: docs diverge from code routinely, and it is far from always the case that someone notices and corrects immediately.☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: the real trouble comes when somebody shits and no one (including, often , the shitter) even notices until , years later, they step in it.☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: has a promisetronic flavour to it
asciilifeform: trinque: surgeon in real life makes ~astonishingly~ detailed record of ~what he found~ vs ~what he did~
asciilifeform: trinque: realize that current infrastructure is ~100% 'cow'. witness that no one has signed off on, e.g., linux, or gcc, in 'own child' mode, and i will say that you would have to be drinking, to even consider doing so
asciilifeform: smoke moar, waft away the plague miasmas.
asciilifeform: 'I read somewhere that whoever was calling for the most violence was who Bernardine latched onto and fucked silly. No violence, no pussy. '
asciilifeform: apprentice is more of a walking spermatozoid than anything else.
asciilifeform: well yes. but picture him transported, somehow, to obummer's usa.
asciilifeform: of course we get to hear from the successful mircea_popescus, rather than the 'emperor nortons' who were SWATed like flies.
asciilifeform: (very easy to 'underground' when no one is hunting)
asciilifeform: part of it is the 'uncatchable joe' aspect
asciilifeform: quite believable. my understanding is that '65s-'75 usa was undergoing a 'british empire' moment where 'youngest sons' of the elite had 'lack of breathing room' and went uppity, and threw a bit of tantrum before being reabsorbed, bill ayers style, into specially-created 'church' bureaucracies
asciilifeform: Columbia University neighborhood, where lots and lots of people knew who they were. And miraculously the FBI could not find them.'
asciilifeform: 'Let me tell you about young Bernardine. She was a strikingly attractive woman. Beautiful clear olive skin. Busty and she showed it off all the time. And usually in high black boots. Not working class engineer boots, shiny black fetish gear. Have you seen the Weather movie? Through the entire “underground” period she wore that gear. They were “underground” on the Upper West Side, in the
asciilifeform: town there was no problem ever. Someone had arranged all this and it was not the Episcopal Church. Of course the two honchos who ran our chapter were both later exposed as pedophiles and FBI.'
asciilifeform: weapons, and an infinite supply of ammunition for training purposes. If they burned out an M60 by running it too hot there was another M60 ready to go. And a little farm in Wisconsin to use as a training facility. All the farmers in the vicinity could and did hear the M60 and the BAR, so could the local police, somehow in spite of every local looking daggers at the hippies when they passed through
asciilifeform: 'Myself I started to drift out of SDS when martial arts training became obligatory. When weapons training was required that was the end for me. What sent me away was not so much the notion of using a gun for a political end as that the providers of the guns were people who until five minutes previous could not fundraise a nickel bag for a party. Suddenly they had weapons, unlimited weapons, nice
asciilifeform: 'rage' commentz also interesting, in places:
asciilifeform: lemme know if you need a hand with the algo (though imho my original proggy was pretty readable)
