log☇︎
104100+ entries in 0.799s
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm not doing more shit for free in this context ; not only because it is outrageous for the recipients of charity to direct the disbursement of charity, but most of all because the end result of a world kept clean, warm and humming along on charity is a disproportionate feeling of power in the idle denizens, who then end up running into "steel walls".
mircea_popescu: these are deeper issues that what can be addressed in plain conversation, i'm sure.
asciilifeform: as far as i can see, the only chance of it resolving cleanly involves mircea_popescu doing a multitude of 'things for phree' which is one of the reasons he is in none too happy a mood.
asciilifeform: anyway, i am not involved with any of this, and for very good reasons (see mircea_popescu's explanation.)
asciilifeform: as i understand
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i must confess, i was never on tardtalk, etc. and have very limited experience with this item. but i think i know what it is, from logz
solrodar: mircea_popescu: as I understand the listing agreement, both you and kakobrekla need to agree before either of you can sell your joint 50%
phf: mircea_popescu: hey some people clearly want to see blood. i think judgement should exclusively affect only people's wot ratings and is necessary for when the issue is complicated and needs an investigation. sort of like a write up that supreme court judges do. nobody even needs to agree with it
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 16:13:22; mircea_popescu: by all means. hence, " and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it."
solrodar: I think the real problem here is not the solvency or otherwise of bitbet, but the fact that mircea_popescu and kakobrekla have had a breakdown in trust and no longer want to work with each other
mircea_popescu: i'll piss on his grave, judge or no judge.
mircea_popescu: phf exactly how is this "not comply" going to work ? cuz i dun follow really.
asciilifeform: i don't know which direction detonator in claymore unscrews, either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not think you have sufficient brain. business is business, there's nothing "technical point of view" about it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i mean, from purely technical point of view, i think i have sufficient brain, but if it became known that i have the ignition keys to xxx btc in my house, i will last maybe a day before gestapo.
phf: jurov: and when judge passes a verdict and mp does not comply or whatever the outcome is we can say "tmsr as an instituation has failed and we can walk away" i mean, what's the problem there?
mircea_popescu: jurov i said, at the time, that i can't in good conscience allow people to vote largesse out of mpex. plox, read the thing you're talking about.
jurov: so am i lying when i say, that you resolved not to subject to any judgement?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432312 << wai wut, i am by no stretch of the imagination qualified to clear the bbet minefield ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:32; phf: i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision
mircea_popescu: i would think so, yes.
mircea_popescu: i was here before you, phf , doing exactly the same thing. so count the whole list thx.
phf: i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision of what has transpired, ☟︎☟︎☟︎
phf: nubbins`: the core of the issue (the way i understand it) is whether or not mp can use personal funds to pay out bets, and whether he can later ask for those funds back from shareholders. that seems to contradict the contract, so the accusation goes, he's in breach of contract. seems simple enough. ☟︎
phf: nubbins`: i think it's a pointless to discuss (and takes away from the core of the issue) whether or not miners are conspiring against bitbet. ascii's been known to say that lizard hitler personally disconnected his node, nobody cared to pipe in then, because it's an established local way of talking and thinking (не веришь прими за сказку). miners are a cartel, they can collectively decide what the protocol behavior should be ☟︎
mircea_popescu: if you ever throw a party somewhere that isn't in a swamp i wanna come.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432087 << i lollered. ☝︎
solrodar: so I have proven a certain amount of technical skill, but this role would also need proven good judgement
mircea_popescu: solrodar ah i recall.
solrodar: I did the trb call graphing work last year
solrodar: I am considering it, but doubt I have the necessary reputation here
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 14:39:06; kakobrekla: it would be trivial for me to generate a list (and for him to confirm its legit) of bettors that need to be refunded, he can then take a haircut for the expenses that brought bb down (nothing i can do bout it) and case closed
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432065 << if you wish to help the receiver along through donating all/part of the work in a publicly verifiable manner, that is your privilege and i am sure will be appreciated by the beneficiaries who they may be. ☝︎☟︎
snorera: i aint no arbitrator
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 14:04:26; asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i did also. and we had a sorta diploma work thesis at the school i went to, and mine was re: feasibility of solving go via neural net...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> i will be astonished if bitbet actually goes into receivership. >> and i will be astonished if one day you get off ass, actually do something. but then again, that's our respective problem. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: i will be astonished if bitbet actually goes into receivership.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla, et al: is bbet for sale for the cost of the shortfall? or do i entirely fail to grasp the algo here
snorera: i am qualified tho
snorera: if there isnt i certauinly dont get one
davout: i have an interests in more things that can fit in 24 hours
asciilifeform: snorera: i dun think there is vote.
snorera: i just voted for alf
snorera: i guess you've an interest davout?
snorera: i can see me moreso
snorera: i meant its likely the reciever woould try to maintain, but i can see yuo as it
asciilifeform: snorera: i'm pretty sure i don't meet at least 4 or 5 of the qualifications.
asciilifeform: or do i catastrophically misunderstand.
asciilifeform: which is why i said 'rot'
asciilifeform: i expect it is still there.
ben_vulpes: how could i be so thick and naive! asciilifeform points out that the coffers might not even contain anything.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431714 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432045 << upon consideration the (absurd! ridiculous! i don't understand how the world works!) schelling point is for kakobrekla and mircea_popescu to split the haul ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: as far as i can see.
nubbins`: i'll leave you with one more nugget of applicable advice from hanbot
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i have nfi why he transmitted without fee. just as i have nfi why the operators at chernobyl reactor 4 wanted to 'test'
nubbins`: i'm not interested in discussing what my conclusion would have been if something that didn't happen happened.
thestringpuller: I'm still confused I guess as to why no fee was used for the payouts..........
nubbins`: "i shouldn't have to pay fee because i'm me"
thestringpuller: i would say brian armstrong
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i thought you did not believe that mpoe was a market ?
nubbins`: i'm clean-shaven these days
kakobrekla: nubbins` i dont have any data on mempool backlog during the period
kakobrekla: speaking of: i had a 0 fee transaction confirmed today. it was made by mistake on or before 26 feb. and was not visible on any block explorer for the period of 18 days.
nubbins`: asciilifeform at the risk of once again putting words in kakobrekla's mouth, i think it's just a case of kako being unwilling to sign off on "expenses" introduced by mp that kako felt were not legit
kakobrekla: i dont think dividends ever paid the bills.
asciilifeform: but i think i can infer what it was, from above
asciilifeform: i will read it, for my own education
kakobrekla: i can publish if someone wants to read. in very short, its: no skin in the game - no game
asciilifeform: because right now the only thing i read was mircea_popescu's 'and kakobrekla refused...' thing
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i forget, did you ever write at length re: your side of the unpleasantries ?
nubbins`: if i couldn't bear to wait X amount of time
nubbins`: no, i'd tell bettors to sign a statement with the address they used to fund their bets, in order to receive a refund
kakobrekla: it would be trivial for me to generate a list (and for him to confirm its legit) of bettors that need to be refunded, he can then take a haircut for the expenses that brought bb down (nothing i can do bout it) and case closed ☟︎
nubbins`: asciilifeform i'm not the one who introduced "rest of your life" absurdity here
asciilifeform: i have nfi
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 21:02:11; ben_vulpes: "I will simply consider the matter moot." << and keep bettor funds if no receiver steps forward?
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431630 << if the summarized version of this is "it sometimes costs money to do things", then i guess all businesses have an uncontrollable, unspecified expense structure ☝︎
thestringpuller: I'll text-ify it later. But I guess point it, don't you think computational power plays a role in what AI does in practice?
asciilifeform: i would read it, but it barfs, 'ad blocker detected', etc
asciilifeform: i will also point out that google INVENTED NOTHING for this item
thestringpuller: that was what I focused on the most in 8th grade - LTM in neural netowkrs
asciilifeform: (even worked lisp into it. but this was a dead end thing and i guarantee that it is not interesting to anybody today)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i did also. and we had a sorta diploma work thesis at the school i went to, and mine was re: feasibility of solving go via neural net... ☟︎
thestringpuller: I have a soft spot for neural networks cause I spent many of my 8th grade lunches in the library building them.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will love http://woodcoin.xyz/woodcoin/2016-03-14#i_35977
mircea_popescu: i guess either we see a bunch of more games where this theory is tested, or else the great achievement goes into storage to keep the d-wave company.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 10:20:24; mircea_popescu: ascii_field> anyone else here read the lee sedol games? << i've looked through.
polarbeard: I don't commute, code can be transfered over the wire :)
polarbeard: but I'm still working in my little scheme-abomination, just slowly
nubbins`: so the outstanding liabilities to shareholders could be as high as 50%, tho i doubt it.
nubbins`: altho i guess technically they also could have sold 1mn shares each from 3.2 (f)
mircea_popescu: punkman ah, no, i can't read it that way.
mircea_popescu: of both kinds, i guess. with any luck, balance shifts slowly to the left as time goes on.
mircea_popescu: a "bitbet is in receivership, send no more bets" thing, give it a week or w/e. i doubt the receiver would have to wait out any ongoing bets, can prolly just refund if the reasonable resolution is too far away in the future.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> anyone else here read the lee sedol games? << i've looked through. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431681 << a) a rose by any other trust backers would smell as sweet i'm sure b) i missed the part of this saga where this is not the ☝︎
danielpbarron: i was gonna say, it took you all weekend to read them? but that last bit is probably more than a weekend long read
nubbins`: i'd say many people are reading the listing agreements
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 20:38:09; ascii_field: is this traditional? (i am not connected with any of this, merely curious how it worx)
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-03-2016#1431596 << i can't imagine any good-faith receiver honouring these terms, no. ☝︎