log☇︎
100500+ entries in 0.781s
mircea_popescu: there seems to me there's a field to graze upon here ; without any such sillyness as "basis is cipher"
mircea_popescu: i dunno the whole thing. the observation however stands that just as there's a way to verify a number ISNT irrational, by the same way in the same manner for the same reason the reverse can also be verified. and there are indeed very hard (as it is the case here, harder than np-complete) problems to do with such numbers, arbitrarily chosen.
mircea_popescu: what are you, a roman ?
asciilifeform: this is a pistol that shoots out the wrong end. the only one it makes life harder for is the user.
asciilifeform: just like how i can't go to my shop and machine a platonic solid.
a111: Logged on 2016-02-10 01:34 mircea_popescu: or to get back to exponential space problems : "decide first order logic propositions with real numbers, adition and comparison" is a very hard problem.
mircea_popescu: we went through a bunch of examples in one sitting, but i'm not finding it nao
asciilifeform: this has ~nothing to do with provably placing transform's inversion into a complexity class.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'At some point during this period, however, I realized that the entire problem was a complete and utter pseudo-problem. ... So I am very confident that neither of these techniques, neither mine nor Sacco and Vanzetti's, has ever been used in practice. There is no need for them, there has never been any need for them, and there will never be any need for them. And this was quite obvious in 1993.'
a111: Logged on 2014-06-11 00:48 asciilifeform: 'Sacco and Vanzetti came up with an entirely different solution to the slow-MMU problem, one which if I do say so myself was less imaginative than mine, but both more general and more practical. They published theirs in a real conference, received much acclaim for it, and I believe patented it, started a so-called company and eventually sold it to Microsoft.'
asciilifeform: one woman offered me a candy bar.
asciilifeform: got the ENTIRELY unsurprising 'what, you're a martian?' stare back.
asciilifeform: btw when i went down into the snakepit with several dozen renowned 'cryptographers' earlier this year, i asked a few folks about this. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: fine, state it like this : when someone proposes a hash, see if you can find a y for which the reverse is trivial.
mircea_popescu: yes, but if one proposes a f, doing the inverse just to see what happens is a good approach.
mircea_popescu: For any function f, the existence of a (randomized) non-adaptive reduction of NP to the task of average-case inverting f implies that coNP ⊆ AM.
mircea_popescu: If given y one can efficiently compute |f^-1(y)| then the existence of a (randomized) reduction of NP to the task of inverting f implies that coNP ⊆ AM. Thus, it follows that such reductions cannot exist unless coNP ⊆ AM.
mircea_popescu: We consider the possibility of basing one-way functions on NP-Hardness; that is, we study possible reductions from a worst-case decision problem to the task of average-case inverting a polynomial-time computable function f. Our main findings are the following two negative results:
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu apparently needs a better killing jar ? his butterflies are still flyin'
mircea_popescu: marx needs a name like my turds need individual id papers.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger : he says : "1. Assume no X exists for F-ing any A's with b ; 2. Assume no X exists for F-ing all A's with b ; 1 is safer than 2." and he is wrong.
asciilifeform: (raw n-bit string that hasn't been fed to nextprime() nor the other tests, is not a key!)
asciilifeform: a clearer approach would be to state this in terms of how many bits of entropy, such that is used in generating key, are de facto discarded by the nextprime() op.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform distinct prime pairs that make a 4kb key
Framedragger: "was a terrible answer tho)" (fuckin irc)
Framedragger: hm. *this* (i.e.: that "no polynomial-time algorithm exists for factoring the product of two random n-bit primes with some good probability") *is* less safe as compared to the safer assumption that "no polynomial-time algorithm exists for always factoring all products of two random n-bit primes". this is a much safer assumption cf. to the one you interpreted it to mean, no? (no baiting this time - just honestly confused). but eh, may
mircea_popescu: let's quantify this hell of a lot together.
asciilifeform: there's a hell of a lot.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the even more hilarious bit is that there just aren't THAT MANY primes to make different keys of a specified size.
Framedragger: i don't think 'c)' obtains? no mix-up there. otherwise, sure, blergh re. a) and b)
mircea_popescu: but yes, what he's trying to copy was originally correct : the problem with cryptosystems is that even if they "reference" an actual hard problem, they don't get to stand in for the fucking problem itself! they pick a case, and we've no good hardness measurers for mere cases.
mircea_popescu: a) not concrete b) what "some good" c) he mixed up all/never.
mircea_popescu: "Note the "random instances" part. For a concrete example, we might assume that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for factoring the product of two random n-bit primes with some good probability. This is very different (less safe) from assuming that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for always factoring all products of two random n-bit primes."
mircea_popescu: Framedragger chiefly, that it isn't. i posit that nothing good or useful can come of some kid at rutger's self importantly answering questions on a website because some 17 yo kid who thinks himself too cool for his ohio highschool asked a dumb question with the usual smattering of wikipedia his teachers usually A him for.
Framedragger: so wikipedia sux and sometimes you need to glance at it, the way a hasty businessman glances at a dubitable street food stand in a foreign city. sometimes the temporary "before pgp xamarin something" solution is to glance at that damn wikipedia. what of it
mircea_popescu: so some officious schmuck wants me to read "the section on wikipedia" where a set of snakeoil salesmen discuss their imaginary snake oil properties ? the glbgbblglbvrhl!
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:24 Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: merely point out that the "root layer of the universe structure" may be a blocker on this bug. but the root layer has needed a paddlin' anyway..
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:24 Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474455 << and in goatfucklandia it is common for everyone to fuck a goat. what of it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:02 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474264 << that's nice, but doesn't the beloved cramer-shoup also use hashes? their scheme, to quote, "requires a universal one-way hash function"
mircea_popescu: and so the matter settled : what started on may 25th as a slight disparity between the usg faux bitcoin exchanges trading at 448 (bitfinex isn't inclued here, having nothing to do with bitcoin altogether) while btcchina was reporting 455 (and 2/3 of the total volume), eventually peaked out at 510/580 (with btcchina still doing 2/3 of the volume) and eventually settled at 530/540. the moral that "you should have yielded rather
mircea_popescu: moreover, you heat on a .5 kwh/sq foot basis ?! this article is too mysterious for me.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 03:16 deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Infinity shades of solar, an erotic analysis. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/05/31/infinity-shades-of-solar-an-erotic-analysis/
mircea_popescu can already picture the kid in question, 19 yo pakistani with a few online freelancing projects under his belt "spreading out" etc.
asciilifeform: it isn't even a mega-leap, judicially, these folks knew they were going to meet allah, hence for insurance purposes can be 'suicide'
mircea_popescu: it is ACTUALLY literally a bill of attainder.
mircea_popescu: the life policy carries a stated beneficiary
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474626 << su had a judicial sentence 'with confiscation of property', which was routinely employed, and included ~all~ property of the condemned. usa presently does not have such a sentence - it has 'proceeds and instruments of the crime', and 'restitution', which amount to ~same thing. and soon will be == de jure. ☝︎
shinohai: It's ok for the USof A to collectively punish people, but not N Korea, etc ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh that's how you meant. i just reload a current page, yeah.
mircea_popescu: a market is a poor substitute of either foreign policy or governmental theology.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in usa, there is saying 'market is not invisible hand, but a tentacle - sometimes, rapes'
mircea_popescu: well so sure, but then the market isn't "a magical solution from god for all the crazy dangerous shit i don't want to have to deal with".
mircea_popescu: but without those meetings of the minds, there isn't a market, just chaos.
mircea_popescu: what was said was that for as long as you value the S for a, worth z, and for b, worth x, whereas she values the sack FOR THE SAME a, worth y and for the same b, worth x, then therer can be a market.
mircea_popescu: before it manages that, it's a shitty island on the side of the great faith empire of a man on whose dominions sun never sets.
mircea_popescu: when they don't make the same lists a market's impossible, which is why britain must "civilize" the world before it can be a "trade empire".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. a market exists when people make the same lists but order them differently.
mircea_popescu: odd that this doesn't occur to you as the obvious answer to the whole "gold brick" bs. "oh, why doesn't mouse go down THIS tunnel!" "because there's a barb at the entrance and it stepped on it" "what barb ?!?!" "there" "oh, that ? that's just a barb!"
asciilifeform: most folks are 'chukcha ain't a reader, he's a writer' and do it anyway.
mircea_popescu: tis a complicated discussion to properly have.
asciilifeform: ever meet a bloke whose hammers are red with rust ?
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:09 phf: none do, a working machine ~always~ has signs of its master's works
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474179 << nothing could be further from teh truth. with some regularity mp has to punish multi-year supposed experts for basic training items such as "who the fuck said you may leave". the equivalent'd be a research lab where one has to explain the criteria of divisibility with 2 and 5 to the research leaders. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and to teh gestapo, and in general, she's got a vocal vulvular valvule an' is not affraid to use it!
asciilifeform: yeah but petrocheese is a peculiarly demoocratic bait. muhammed has other bait.
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow muhammad offers a gram more petrocheese / unit time than usg.yelp.ceo.my, she's gone.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:52 ben_vulpes: a friend of mine recently broke up with his girl of 4+ years, and i realized during conversation about his new dating adventures and the kinds of women he was encountering that i would have patience for approximately zero reeducation at this point in my life.
Framedragger: yeah, i've been prone to this, too, but luckily by applying some "heuristic human computronium" a.k.a. common sense no truly stupid tragedies happened.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger nobody gives these kids any clear signals. their great-grandparents went "bitch, you're gonna marry the first guy with a pulse and make me two nephews!" which was maybe excessive.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:50 asciilifeform: for instance, i'm about to buy moar display. it will be an lcd. but if mircea_popescu buys another display, it won't be lcd, it'll be a thing where a gurl flips pixels manually.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474135 << nah, it'll be a lcd and an army of bulgarian nurses to run by the houses of everyone who thinks the opposite and flip them over the head. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:05 BingoBoingo: She's a transplant to the bay area failing to afford it. Likely a female to mayo transgender with asperzorsations of leaving Ohio behind.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guy's been all over everything cia for a coupla decades.
trinque: huh, must be a timeout thing
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
shinohai: Maybe a more ptent solution of chloroform is in order.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu apparently needs a better killing jar ? his butterflies are still flyin' ☟︎
asciilifeform: hell, andreas a still talks
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474385 << mircea_popescu whole point is that ~my particular lamp~ is still glowing. (i recently bought one of them tritium lamps, it is a good analogy for this actually) ☝︎
asciilifeform: this is sorta like the boojum in rsa, where generating a ~good~ key is nontrivial
asciilifeform: how do you PROVE that a particular instance is not trivially heuristicable ?
asciilifeform: it is even possible that we will never see a proof of whether it exists to be found.
asciilifeform: universe didn't ship with a warranty
Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889 ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: this is - so far - a null set.
asciilifeform: from this thread we get a trivial definition of adult cryptosystem: provably unbreakable unless complexity classes collapse.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: if it's broken, it ain't a cryptosystem now it. in that SOLVING it doesn't prove p==np for fuck's sake.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:56 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473729 << this was so common in romania (for some reason romanians were even MORE crazy book-militant than the ru), that a) there was a state-sponsored, official "books" edition/complete library (called "biblioteca pentru toti"). cheap paperbacks, fixed format made to fit preexisting standard shelving, decent antologies of reasonable titles. this was like you know, the prol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474390 << these are 'books' in the same sense that american 'house' is a house, etc. ☝︎
asciilifeform read quite a few things but KEEPS AROUND only the thing worth keeping around...
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:30 mircea_popescu: you can't find a book that's not informed by either a christian or socialist notion of theosophy. neither of these are intellectually acceptable, or even digestible. the dumb will have to be washed off books before they may be instruments of human thought again. asciilifeform does not feel this because he insists on only reading an (insignificant) fraction, math is math eh.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473683 << this is a deeply idiotic measurement. what you can't find me is a nigger that's happy with his life. that's the fucking criteria.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it is merely a variant of elgamal
asciilifeform: all we have is a) otp, trivially proven to be impenetrable, high school level exercise b) everything else, being snake oils of varying degrees of toxicity, with c-s being the least noxious known to me presently.
asciilifeform: i personally dug up every publicly accessible resource i could think of, where such a unicorn might live, and found none.
asciilifeform: an adult asymmetric (or symmetric, for that matter) cryptosystem would rely on a mathematical problem of PROVEN complexity class (e.g., np-complete)
asciilifeform: it STILL, just like all other publicly known asymmetric cryptosystems, relies on a mathematical trap door of UNPROVEN hardness.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: there is a hash-free variant.