tmsr - Log 2020-03-06

mp_en_viaje: man asciilifeform & his gravitating windbag make for SUCH a moron field... what THE FUCK is "centralizing" about http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-77 ?

mp_en_viaje: so you don't like lexis texas... fine, take her out. you wanna put eleni mitzali there instead ? fine, copy/paste it in, or instead. or change the order, or whatever the fuck. it's your fucking file. what the fuck.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-03 08:20:17 mp_en_viaje: bvt, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=J5sq

bvt: diana_coman: i have a question about leafs command: can you explain how you use it? i gave it some thought, and honestly i fail to see how it is useful: after adding the manifest which linearizes the vpatches, "leafs" reports only one leaf, without showing the split vtree branches before it.

mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i am too lazy to search where in the discussion on which blog inside which comment i made months ago the point that he's very poor at estimating anything and generally (and universally unreviewed) wrong

mp_en_viaje: but this no longer seems a sufficien tstatement of the problem. has he EVER been right ? is there such a thing as the wonder of ONE correct prediction since he went along his merry stupid way ?

bvt: i extended the examples to also show vpatches selected for presses (http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8Hrq): would this make "leafs" not needed in your view?

mp_en_viaje: because each time someone blows a fuse and ends up wanting an official word, i end up looking at some shit so stupid it's beyond this world.

bvt: btw, "vtree" command name is also subject to discussion, and it still shows the "leafs" with '(*)' mark.

diana_coman: bvt: looks perfectly fine to me; and as long as there is how to see the whole tree in text , there's no need as such for separate leaves, no

mp_en_viaje: bvt, i think a large part of it is that indeed this tool is evoloving ; and has been, but deliberately under the specific sort of pressurte, which comes with usage. you're not under some great weight of "having to get it perfectly & forever right" now, just as mod6 or ben_vulpes or anytone else wasn't 3 years ago.

mp_en_viaje: btw diana_coman is there some reason A Walk among the Trees of V stands out in http://ossasepia.com/2019/ ?

diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: well, since it does, there must be an issue; no reason though, lol.

diana_coman: bvt: cool, I should be able to give it another spin on Monday the latest (or so is the current plan).

mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2020/our-democracy-or-rather-mostly-theirs/#comment-147687 << you know, i actually live in costa rica, i ain't going anywhere. what http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958805 means is that i'll be in costa rica till late may, and then from june onwards ; it's true i've lived 11 months in 33 or some shit euro towns, but that was a brief interruption as these things go -- before that i lived in cr

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-03 12:40:10 mp_en_viaje: jfw, well, i plan on maybe going to rio late may ; other than that i'll be mostly around. pick a day, i don't specifically care which and it doesn't make any sense for you to try and coordinate with large groups at large distances -- if indeed there's a gathering you can take the hourish trip down again, at the considerable cost to you of a lunch out or w/e it is.

mp_en_viaje: a coupla years, and even if before that argentina etc, as i told the (new) manager of my old indian restaurant : "i've been coming here for fifteen years". literally, since 2005, just about this time of year, place's had at least three owners that i know of in the interval and a dozen or more generations of peacocks, but i perdure.

mp_en_viaje: jfw, incidentally, thinking about it -- the one (and, for that matter, only) item that actually needs first class, os support is user-initiated, thorough, complete and reliable storage media destruction.

mp_en_viaje: there's no real need for ctrl-alt-del to be supported. there is however an absolute need for some manner of user-set, five-keystroke wipe-everything.

diana_coman: I have no idea; that's what the spam said and it made to me ~as much sense as that log.

mp_en_viaje: incidentally, from a sadly-still-practicing anthropologist pov, this notion (that a) "all the enemy is the same enemy" and b) "the name for it is satan") is quite likely the oldest human idea ; much older than any kind of religion howsoever loosely defined, and i suspect OLDER THAN LANGUAGE.

mp_en_viaje: it likely occupies a space in time in between the appearance of laughter as a group-generating social behaviour and the apparition of the voices.

mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the armin hemel buhbye at the end is qyite lulzy ; otherwise there's loads of more or less comedic stuff on that site. https://fsfellowship.eu/gnu-censors-the-united-nations-report-cybertorture-rms/

mp_en_viaje: beings an engineer advocacy is always such a specify kind of ambiguous lulz... like slapstick with mongoloids.

mp_en_viaje: http://archive.is/7LwE5 << not that the other side is any better. imagine, all the "socially well adjusted" morons who can't add managed to re-do the same trite nonsense 50000 times, NOT ONE thinking to mention... i dunno, any of the self-obvious points, from "it depends on what is is" and onwards.

mp_en_viaje: basically, the problem of the denied middle is not merely "there's no such thing as middle class any longer possible -- either get very rich or be very poor" ; but also "there's no such thing as common sense remaining, either become moron type 1 or else moron type W".

mp_en_viaje: the odd end result of the porn revolution was the... sexualization of everything, including capital and reason. you're now welcome to find the "average" wealth or "average" thought, even "average" taste -- much like you're welcome to find the average man-woman

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/au-rebours/ << Trilema -- Au rebours

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 04:08:24 mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2020/our-democracy-or-rather-mostly-theirs/#comment-147687 << you know, i actually live in costa rica, i ain't going anywhere. what http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958805 means is that i'll be in costa rica till late may, and then from june onwards ; it's true i've lived 11 months in 33 or some shit euro towns, but that was a brief interruption as these things go -- be

hanbot_abroad: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958988 << /me says a prayer for people with impudent cats and/or fat spiders.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 05:13:18 mp_en_viaje: you do q-qw-q-w-q or w/e you set it to, that's IT, prepare the bootable isos.

jfw: re cats, there was that time when an out-of-print proprietary unix install CD, irreplaceable artifact, was destroyed. Engineers had left it on a table, y'know, in the server room, near the screwdrivers and such. Not the ideal of orderliness, sure, but not the worst either. What engineers forgot was that CEO liked to bring cats to the office (to better acclimate them to people and travel).

jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-05#1958950 - still worked, though that was on a musl gawk, perhaps it's special in a sufficiently different way. I don't have a drepper box around with that much disk atm. I'll believe it once blew up in some environment though.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-05 15:34:05 mp_en_viaje: jfw, try on say 64gb

jfw: bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958964 - with a manifest, multiple leaves would happen when there are different branches building on a common ancestor and not reground into linearity, no?

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 03:55:25 bvt: diana_coman: i have a question about leafs command: can you explain how you use it? i gave it some thought, and honestly i fail to see how it is useful: after adding the manifest which linearizes the vpatches, "leafs" reports only one leaf, without showing the split vtree branches before it.

jfw: and if, say, every gtk prog is done by building on the gtk tree (not finding the ref but I recall MP explaining it to me thus), this could be a pretty common situation

jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958985 - so a "shred" command not good enough then? Ignoring the issue that drives have brains of their own these days, is there value in an emergency self-destruct button that depends on a substantial duration of continued external power supply?

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 05:11:03 mp_en_viaje: jfw, incidentally, thinking about it -- the one (and, for that matter, only) item that actually needs first class, os support is user-initiated, thorough, complete and reliable storage media destruction.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959017 - if you mean the branches from before the manifest was introduced in that specific tree, it's not that much "with a manifest" really; but in any case, regardless of how many leaves there are, they are still obvious enough in a tree text dump so that I don't think it's needed separately as such.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:31:55 jfw: bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958964 - with a manifest, multiple leaves would happen when there are different branches building on a common ancestor and not reground into linearity, no?

diana_coman: and sure, one can still branch (effectively on the manifest file), but again, I don't see the situation where the leaves are not obvious even in a huge tree.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959012 << it's a matter of principle rather than anything ; i think it's poor practice to argue against principles on the basis of expediency. how useful the item is in practice is a fine discussion to be had, sure ; but can only be had on the actually sound basis of having the item in the first place.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:22:14 jfw: Or small children... if there's a button, it will be pushed

mp_en_viaje: in any case i'm not proceeding from an utilitarian perspective, "this should exist because the user would benefit". the logic informing the concept is rather existential, "for such a thing as an operating system to meaningfully exist, the self-destruct must be in the operator's hands at all times"

mp_en_viaje: then from that node we can proceed to a "well, how's this to be implemented ? should there eg be a wipeage button or not worth bothering with". i think it's worth bothering with for the statement it makes, for everyone, users and producers alike ; even if it's neither useful nor used. lots of things are neither used nor used, like say the us supreme court.

mp_en_viaje: they still exist for the same exact existential reasoning, which is very much the only way to have meaningful totalitarian systems in the first place.

ossabot: Logged on 2016-06-30 11:33:02 a111: Logged on 2015-01-30 05:51 mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.

mp_en_viaje: i think giving away a monopoly to existential thought away to the usg and limiting self to the merely municipal "utilitarian" perspective is not much better, nor in fact substantially different from giving them a monopoly on coinage. which i take we're not willing to give.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959015 << i think gawk doesn't actually have this problem. i tend not to use it because of all the networking bs.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:29:53 jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-05#1958950 - still worked, though that was on a musl gawk, perhaps it's special in a sufficiently different way. I don't have a drepper box around with that much disk atm. I'll believe it once blew up in some environment though.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959020 << a shred command is a command, ie, a user space program. a kernel call is a kernel call. i don't care how it is exposed ; i deeply care the kernel isn't ~built around it~.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:39:09 jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958985 - so a "shred" command not good enough then? Ignoring the issue that drives have brains of their own these days, is there value in an emergency self-destruct button that depends on a substantial duration of continued external power supply?

mp_en_viaje: in which same vein, "user password" in the shape of FS symmetrically encrypted such that withoyut password you can read any other OTP out of it that you wish, and so on.