tmsr - Log 2019-12-11

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 13:52:05 nicoleci: it's something to watch the stone trinque cast three months ago go meanwhile round the world and come back to hit him in the back of the head - kind of ironic...

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954808 << yes, we did. and we are in the same place on that one, at this time too.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 18:29:38 trinque: mp_en_viaje: I put it to you that without money inflow... what republic? I'd thought we'd arrived in the same place on that one, at the time.

mp_en_viaje: that doesn't mean now i'll permit a whole "lost tech" fantasy fiction to erupt on fucking gentoo, as fucking if the symbolics idiocy wasn't ENOUGH of a waste of time / ready rug to sweep it under..

mp_en_viaje: nor can i eschew signalling this point to dorion for the merry gang, specifically because he has little fucking idea about the underlying truths in the thick "engineering" sauce.

mp_en_viaje: that if you're not here to represent gentoo, they have really very little business bothering with it.

mp_en_viaje: and that they're certainly ill advised to deputize presumably their more active set to go on some kind of dubmass expedition through the remains.

mp_en_viaje: ~that~ is what i'm signalling ; and that that's what i'm doing along with that i have to do it is self-fucking-obvious on the extant record, wut!

trinque: but gentoo's a piece of shit. if it's not apparent why, I'll definitely have to say why.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954809 << look, it's very fucking simple : there are 62 cities in the world larger than houston ; of the 4.5mn living there about 300k own more than a million dubaloos' worth. if you go from nothing to 1mn dubaloos, you go from nothing to being in the top 300k pantsuits in pantsuit conglomeration #62.

mp_en_viaje: nobody cares, it's not like i'm particularly threatened by the notion god help me ; but if you quit your day job to spend a decade or whatever's left of your active live becoming the 285`666th most popular singer-songwriter in the 63rd most popular genre AND you also expect someone will drop what they're doing to clap for you... you're insane, in so many words.

mp_en_viaje: what, you think i'm hobby police over here ? go, win the fishing competition, be the greatest pitcher on diamond #8, municipal sportscourt #11 etcetera. just, again, if you stop showing up for work because THAT's what you're doing, you're off your rocker, for srsly.

mp_en_viaje: paintsuit world is as fine a hobby as any other hobby, and what the fuck's wrong with having hobbies now. but if you stop distinguishing between vocation and avocation, if the hobby takes over activity as a sort of parasite, it's not ME "declaring" you an otaku. i'm like the coroner in that sad context, nobody died because the coroner pronounced them dead. at the time the coroner showed up, the deed was long done.

trinque: we don't disagree on that point either; I don't give a shit how many funnybux I have.

trinque: the only context in which I brought it up was getting pissed at alf that I couldn't have a chip, and w/e.

mp_en_viaje: yes, but nobody knows what the fuck you're either thinking or doing, because you don't express yourself neither consistently nor well. so we're stuck guessing. i'm trying to do as good a job of it as possible, but god fucking help me it's my least favourite activity.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954813 << they're doing a consulting gig, it's somewhat detailed on his blog, he even has a business plan / some description of actual sales activity in there.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 18:39:12 trinque: dorion_road: ftr I have no problem with trying out your thing and offering critique either. I do have a problem with armies that don't eat, so I'd love to hear how you plan to sustain the effort necessary to maintain an OS.

mp_en_viaje: it's not much as it stands, but i do believe they've targetted exceptionally well, and might perhaps be able to execute also. maybe even surive to iterate. in any case i intend to help them, within reason.

mp_en_viaje: the exceptional part goes from being peripherally connected to the wealth management consulting behemoth, it's what he did in panama.

mp_en_viaje: but yes, putting the above 20 log lines (in context-adequate form) under the eyes of a few hundred thousand pantsuits in fifty or a hundred pantsuit congomerations is not a half-bad plan.

mp_en_viaje: "soo... well done on the 50mn exit. now, why are you at walmart with a credit card, in the same outfit as the single mother over there with her govt-issued scrip ? you know the same social worker can cut your access that gives her the electronic meal ticket, yes ?"

mp_en_viaje: whether it ends up working or not, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954814 is however not a fair description of what's going on.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 18:40:37 trinque: and this retort that real men manifest food with sheer will, great. there's nothing actionable in that comment.

trinque: if the gents have somehow managed to communicate to the "offshore money" crowd that computing infrastructure matters, that'll definitely be something.

mp_en_viaje: yes, but meanwhile i had an exceptional aged steak yest, and then retired for a glass of port, coffee, sweets and a cigarette. you understsnd this, if i ask for an ashtrey at this poshest place in town, THEY FUCKING BRING ME ONE.

mp_en_viaje: contrary to the pantsuit fantasy, "this is everywhere" does not hold. there's a lot of power to be put behind the "you're fucking stupid, amerikanski" in very simple exemplar form.

mp_en_viaje: in the end, nobody fucking cares what the hillbillies are used to. experience shows time and again the young female;s willing to move on, and with her the whole fucking world moves, from outhouse to indoor plumbing arrangements, and so on.

trinque: last thing I begrudge is your success, and I'm well aware that at 32 so far I've knocked down middle class walmart retirement.

mp_en_viaje: not a point of my success ; the point is -- yes i'm aware texas oil money is rather... ok, your term, dipshits.

mp_en_viaje: the nile also flooded every year, in a regular process that seemed to most everyone, certainly everyone in the ancient world, fundamental. yet it wasn't fundamental ; i twasn't even self-perpetuating. as it turns out, the nile's stopped flooding altogether, it's been decades.

mp_en_viaje: i guess the converse statement's that im some kind of half-baked optimist. but anyways.

mp_en_viaje: o look at that, the only google reference is... a trilema piece. god help us, it's true mp will always return a "wait, what ?!" moment, but...

trinque: so dorion_road, is the idea that there's a tmsr stack upon which what, systems are built for these folks holding piles of database money?

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954816 << you know, my slaves meet the "found item, chiseled". not thereby owned ? or is it animism magic, "rule only applies to non-sluts" ? this'll be a hard argument, objectification of women and all that.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 18:42:43 trinque: and a found item with TMSR chizeled in it is not thereby owned

mp_en_viaje: trinque, do you recall that time asciilifeform couldn't get a ro lawyer to talk to him over gpg ?

mp_en_viaje: my understanding is that they're basically fixing that : giving the guy the laptop's evidently not enough (i gave mine one when i left ro), it needs to be supported culturally / with habits, mental and otherwise

mp_en_viaje: anyway, that's what they seem to be doing, "here's the hardware, here's the mental floss slash bible, here's the daily prayers rules regulation and prayerbook", a complete package like that.

mp_en_viaje: it seems self-evident their plan as it stands is missing the 4th and final ingredient of churchly success, "and this is the congregation", but that can be discovered in time

mp_en_viaje: anyways, it seems all very neoprotestant ("compile your own bible out of letters found around the house!!) which my rather catholic description doesn't do justice to. but it's just summary, i don't mean to rule by misrepresentation.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954818 << this "he doesn't need you" thing is such nonsense. i also don't need any other of the things, what the hell, since when it's a needs-based economy.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:24:08 trinque: nicolewhatever: and by the way, repeating your master's opinion for him says very little. I heard him; he doesn't need you going "ayyyyyy", but good girl all the same.

mp_en_viaje: if want the bitches to express themselves or not express themselves, in the end ? it's gotta be one, can't be both.

trinque: at any rate, folks that are handling money overseas for clients are obviously a target.

trinque: they're using shockingly primitive accounting tooling, shockingly primitive processes for e.g. wire authorizations and all the rest

mp_en_viaje: the actual important part is that "the industry" is looking for recovery after the whole "panama papers" etc circus.

mp_en_viaje: and yes, as it happens there DOES exist exactly one jurisdiction where they can move to, after being betrayed by all the toy pretend-states.

deedbot: jfw rated mircea_popescu 5 << Father & overlord of the Most Serene Republic. Reads ~everything worth the mention and writes in abundance at trilema.com.

deedbot: jfw rated BingoBoingo 3 << Aaron Rogier: bingology.net, qntra.net, moved abroad to start ISP, knowledgeable on diverse topics, responsible custodian of computing equipment. Met in person Dec 2019.

deedbot: jfw rated diana_coman 5 << ossasepia.com, long-time Trilema scholar, develops Eulora, knowledgeable on computing, writing & other topics; committed to seeing things for what they are & solving the right problems. My mentor & Master at Young Hands Club.

deedbot: jfw rated asciilifeform 2 << Stanislav Datskovskiy, loper-os.org, seeks the Right Thing in all matters even if it would take ten lifetimes. Has honored promises in commerce in my experience.

deedbot: jfw rated dorion 6 << Robinson Dorion, close friend & business partner, known since Jan 2014. Studious and dedicated. Writes at dorion-mode.com.

deedbot: jfw rated trinque 2 << Knowledgeable on system administration, Lisp, Bitcoin. Develops & operates deedbot, holding its wallet keys. Writes occasionally at trinque.org.

jfw: mp_en_viaje: thanks for those blog comments btw, looking forward to a proper read + catching up on the juicy looking log here in the coming days. I see dorion_road's and my venture was discussed just above; I'll give him the first word as I believe he's more up to date here.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-11 00:44:23 mp_en_viaje: it seems self-evident their plan as it stands is missing the 4th and final ingredient of churchly success, "and this is the congregation", but that can be discovered in time

ossabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-15 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006282 - heh, how long until they register a key and find their way in here?

mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in linear improvements : i'm thinking of setting up #trilema to forward the useless / idle / etcetera to the feeder chans. apparently freenode has support for this, in that in setting a ban one can also specify a channel wherein the banned to be dumped.

mp_en_viaje: so what i'm thinking is, what if deedbot set a ban on any nick it sees unvoiced for >1hr, setting the forward channel alternatively #ossasepia and #trilema-hanbot on it ?

mp_en_viaje: this'll prolly need management in the sense that i suspect the banlist is limited, so after a few of these it'd be stuck expiring the oldest ban to enact a new one, meaning it'll need a round buffer of them.

mp_en_viaje: so specifically trinque is this feasible iyo ? and everyone else also, is an hour too short a time ? other comments ?

diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ahaha; and designer overalls, lmao; the exquisite sheep worming attiree.

diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I don't mind it or anything; tbh only the other day I had a look at the list of names and picked RubenSomsen to pm & he got at least in #ossasepia, presumably still reading now through the mountain of links he ended up hit with.

diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: the only potential trouble I see with your proposed model is when the new voice model is implemented since my pageboys will not be able to hang around here at all anymore.

diana_coman: they won't be able to self-voice and then what, someone has to voice them every hour or they end up kicked to one of the other chans?

mp_en_viaje: so for one thing, if you're not willing to rate them enough so they can voice, why should they idle here ?

diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ugh, what??? the new model is that only those rated by you with 9 can self-voice, no?

mp_en_viaje: for the other thing, the original reason the thing was set to auto-devoice in 30 minutes was to avoid the burden of hostility upon the devoicer, and the situation of voice inflation, where randos have it just as good as actual people, like thios were athens or something.

mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i thought the model was that those rated by my as 9 are on the list of ratings deedbot looks at to establish l2

diana_coman: if that's the case, then there is no problem indeed since yes, they would still be able to self-voice for sure; in my mind it was that only your l1 can self-voice, hm.

mp_en_viaje: iirc that was discussed re flexibility for ~other~ chans, which is how the 9 came about, "just don't rate people 9 if you don't want a l1/l2 in your chan"

diana_coman: now I see it; I read depedent on ~my~ wot and I didn't get it was just moving the centre but keeping the l2 as well, hm.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:06:31 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : hey trinque, now that there's actually multiple functional castles the time's prolly come to update the deedbot voice model into awareness of this situation. so how about a patch making voice in #trilema dependent on ~my~ wot, rather than deedbot's own ; and similarily in any castles that ask for it / you come to an understanding with the lords thereof, so they can use the voice model there if the

mp_en_viaje: i suppose i should prolly write a proper article about this, seems it's unhelpfully all over the logs ?

diana_coman: it is really because that's the start but then it gets discussed and the different values talked about and so on; so yes, I for one would very much prefer to have an article as ref.

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/server1-hotelmoskva-rs/ << Trilema -- server1.hotelmoskva.rs

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-11 03:11:06 mp_en_viaje: ha, that's a point huh.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:07:06 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954750 << to be perfectly clear, i'm not at all inclined to lend support to this sort of misbehaviour. young man has no excuse to act like a cunt, "oh, hurr durr, LET OTHER PEOPLE". by and large, if he's not here to work his shit, nobody cares about his shit.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 11:31:41 dorion_road: Right now my approach is to draw from the experience with cuntoo and gales and understand : what strengths can be taken from both, what do they both lack that tmsr os requires.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:08:15 mp_en_viaje: if trinque fails to work within the framework (which yes, DOES mean jan 15th is a firm deadline, not because you made it so or could, but because i can, and do), and nobody gives a shit about cuntoo, everything that was thereby lost is upon trinque to pay.

dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954799 << hmm. I know python is discussed at length in various log threads, for the sake of clarity, would you mind summarizing the most important marks against it ?

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:25:02 mp_en_viaje: anyways, i have serious reservations about anything-python. it's the first time for me, i never thought before a lang is basically the satan ; but it seems to me anything derived off python's going to be stupid, for that reason.

mp_en_viaje: dorion, i wouldn't. let's use the call-and-response format for this. so, what would you say is the problem the republic's formed to resolve ?

mp_en_viaje: ever heard / seen someone say "bring it" ? as in you know, the challenge, there's some kinda threat an' the response is... bring it

mp_en_viaje: the job of gnoseology, the collected product of thought, is to enact partitions, and record them. some of these are more interesting than others, as illustrated through experience ; an examined life is exactly this "following phenomena while aware of the partitions list"

mp_en_viaje: i'd say the most interesting partition available upon "living things" is whether they are ready. there's the living things that are, and the living things that aren't. hence that whole discussion of http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/

mp_en_viaje: now, people as a particular class of living things are perverse (this is called "intelligence" in pantsuit gospels), meaning they also have a recursion built in there.

mp_en_viaje: now there are three groups : the ready, the willing unready, and the dumb unready. in more traditional terms the middle class is denoted as organized stupidity.

mp_en_viaje: they'd like to be ready, see. they just... aren't. and because people are perverse, this tends to manifest rather as exam taking than actual improvement. they don't become any ready-er, they just become adept at pretending they are.

mp_en_viaje: this having progressed unchecked for lo these many years, the principal problem of the republic is dealing with organized stupidity. this is a lot like any other cleaning job, because yes there's no difference between the filth that supports vermin infestations and the "collective action" that supports the marauding idiots.

mp_en_viaje: my objection is that foremost and before being any other thing, python is a tool for the wilfully stupid.

mp_en_viaje: hence the link relating it to wikipedia recently that now of course i can't find. basically what it does seems to me in any and all particulars based upon the forwarding of the "group action" agenda of the only evil in this world ; much like the republic's in all workings promoting itself python's in all its workings first supporting the enemy.

mp_en_viaje: the problem with this argument of course is that it can be applied quite well to A LOT of the things we use ; most notably c++. but it's at the core, i suspect, if unexpressed, of why nobody ever pushed for say c#.

dorion_road: python is then not available to meaningful examination because it has been exam taking and pretending to be ready (e.g. usg.mit now uses it instead of scheme), rather than actually making itself ready for human use.

mp_en_viaje: but i do mean ~very~ bad. fractally bad, it even gives them the impression they have been. without prejudice to lobbes, look at his experience, not necessarily just since sept.

mp_en_viaje: i am not proposing bash is good ; but i made a point of it in that context because i believe it is in this respect opposite. it has all the ills naggum finds it, yes, but it does not have that one thing that produces pete dushenskis out of otherwise promising young men.

mp_en_viaje: this'd be to my mind the string holding pantsuit online together : python, wikipedia & wediditreddit.

mp_en_viaje: i dunno i support any particular action on the foregoing basis. but i also ain't gonna pass it in silence no mo.

dorion_road: python primarily comes up due to portage. Gales uses a shell script based package manager, so the point about bash will get further practical consideration as that gets explored.

mp_en_viaje: before coming up due to portage it came up due to flask ; and after portage it came up due to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954347

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 22:53:10 mircea_popescu: (notice, incidentally, how my bash / awk didn't betray me in "if($2 != day)" like your python betrayed you)

mp_en_viaje: and it's not ~the language~, either. there's nothing magically great about "how it handles conditioanls", "if($2 != day) is not god's own notation or anything LIKE that. it's that python breeds and fits upon and further breeds and further fits upon the sort of thought process that'll produce the sort of thing that fails.

mp_en_viaje: much like any other drug addiction, by supressing the wrong pain signals (which is what it set out to do, guido van dorkum's idea was exactly this, if coding weren't painful more people would -- yes, but BADLY) it produces positive feedback harmful loops.

mp_en_viaje: there's a trilema somewhere explaioning how positive feedback loops are the only dangerous thing in nature, but...

mp_en_viaje: well... actually it might not be it, it might be only reference to the it, but i am intellectualy exhausted by now

diana_coman: it didn't seem like it because it's a statement, not an explanation really; onth it doesn't link it either and supposedly it should, if it can be found and so on.

mp_en_viaje: i dunno, sometimes i think 2018 was spent doing a LOT of drugs, i can remember it like hippies can remember the 60s

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/ << Trilema -- The contemplated update to the #trilema voice model

BingoBoingo: Not explicitly but Aunt Dumb does get beat by the sex good, condoms cheat Aunt dumb outta babies from sex, more sex happens loop

mp_en_viaje: yueah but this was a belabouredly explicit explanation of how all serious threats are positive feedback loops. iirc was in a medical context

mp_en_viaje: i dunno, maybe the peroration i have in mind happened orally in the harem or who knows.

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/12/hell-freezing-over-afl-cio-endorses-trump-trade-agreement/ << Qntra -- Hell Freezing Over: AFL-CIO Endorses Trump Trade Agreement

deedbot: BingoBoingo paid lobbes invoice 8

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 22:39:24 trinque: you will see this article sooner than the 15th, too.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 22:34:51 trinque: dorion_road: ftr I have no problem with trying out your thing and offering critique either. I do have a problem with armies that don't eat, so I'd love to hear how you plan to sustain the effort necessary to maintain an OS.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 22:27:34 trinque: I'm going to write something on why eating a product of socialists is stupid, and if we must eat shit, eating the least shit is the move.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 03:42:21 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954808 << yes, we did. and we are in the same place on that one, at this time too.

ossabot: Logged on 2017-12-02 17:16:42 mircea_popescu: but otherwise -- everything's sough. you got tits ? make money. you can code ? make money. you can draw ? make money. you "got relations" / can pr/whatever the fuck you got ? MAKE MONEY!

ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 18:29:38 trinque: mp_en_viaje: I put it to you that without money inflow... what republic? I'd thought we'd arrived in the same place on that one, at the time.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 03:44:44 mp_en_viaje: nor can i eschew signalling this point to dorion for the merry gang, specifically because he has little fucking idea about the underlying truths in the thick "engineering" sauce.

dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1954831 << perhaps I'm dull, but I'd appreciate it stated plainly in texan straight talk.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 03:53:10 trinque: what is it you think I'm signaling to diana_coman's bunch?

dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1954839 << I'd say it's worth spelling out once and for all in an article, I'd read and comment. Publishing it would probably be cathartic too.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 03:56:53 trinque: but gentoo's a piece of shit. if it's not apparent why, I'll definitely have to say why.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 04:13:36 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954813 << they're doing a consulting gig, it's somewhat detailed on his blog, he even has a business plan / some description of actual sales activity in there.

dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1954853 << yeah, it's still early, working with our first few clients since September, expecting more to start in February.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 04:14:22 mp_en_viaje: it's not much as it stands, but i do believe they've targetted exceptionally well, and might perhaps be able to execute also. maybe even surive to iterate. in any case i intend to help them, within reason.

dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1954854 << if you're up for it, I'd also like to read about your experience there.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 04:14:42 trinque: I've been in that business. It's hard, wish them well.

feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/pizarro-isp-closing-statement/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Pizarro ISP Closing Statement

ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-11 04:37:25 trinque: so dorion_road, is the idea that there's a tmsr stack upon which what, systems are built for these folks holding piles of database money?

dorion_road: With tmsr os, how much work to support the implicit clients isn't clear yet. I'm also not 100% clear on spyked, bvt and lobbes situation apart from gathering they've been consistently productive while working salary mines.

dorion_road: I defintely have to think more about the long term monetization, but I see big potential.

dorion_road: In the short term, jfw and I are going to integrate it into our service, which, at this point, aims at guiding the right people in learning how to lower their risk in

dorion_road: Right now we're delivering the service primarily face to face, which mircea_popescu advised against. More thinking about the pivot needs to be done, but with more sales, there will be more opportunity to make an offer to people that's competitive with salary mines.

BingoBoingo: In very Uruguay things, an Asado related incident has lead to a relatively large wildfire in Rocha which is leading to closure of some of the few roads up that way. What a way to start tourist season.

mp_en_viaje: i guess im putting some bitcoin aside for when they start selling portland "yazidi" girls in a few years ?

BingoBoingo: I'm guessing 'Portland Yazidis' will be a sorta budget substitute for the real thing?

mp_en_viaje: nfi. it seems to me "yazidi" is practically how you say "bovine local population of no particular utility"