Namworld: lol whut. This is golden bullshit right at the first paragraph. Gotta read that.
fract4l: sell your goxcoins on builder ASAP
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1021 @ 0.0002 = 0.2042 BTC [+] {3}
Bugpowder: I'm hooping my analysis is somewhat more reality based
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 245 @ 0.00491995 = 1.2054 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 62 @ 0.004919 = 0.305 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 128 @ 0.0055 = 0.704 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 151 @ 0.00491899 = 0.7428 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00489925 = 0.9799 BTC [-] {2}
dignork: fract4l: apparently one of your nicks was PanicSellBTC, or maybe just ip match, but still, good luck
fract4l: dignork: hahah. how did you look that up
mike_c: wait.. are you saying gox is insolvent??
dignork: fract4l: otcdb street magic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 150 @ 0.0055 = 0.825 BTC {2}
fract4l: i really should start using vps's more often
fract4l: can anyone recommend a good one that takes BTC w/ instant setup?
mike_c: fract4l can i sell you my bitcoin? i'll send first.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.06089999 = 0.4263 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00489999 = 0.2156 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 92 @ 0.00475759 = 0.4377 BTC [-] {6}
dexX7: must be legit - "bitcoin" (not "Bitcoin", well at least sometimes), "Blockchain.info" (not blockchain.info) and round quotation marks.. matches the style used in previous statements ;)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00455327 = 0.9107 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00486973 = 0.3652 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00489 = 0.2201 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 326 @ 0.00489352 = 1.5953 BTC [+] {3}
KRS-One: are u guys watching these marekts
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 137.90103, vol: 102195.07906128 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 512.52, vol: 52396.43876218 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 544.756, vol: 21501.47774 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 515.0, vol: 33888.95997588 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 560.98, vol: 379.37892913 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 573.17836, vol: 13452.49200000 | Volume-weighted last average: 348.666592134
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00489 = 0.2347 BTC [-]
Bugpowder: The good news is that I have interfaced matlab with block chain.info so I can spider through these addresses instead of hand analyzing them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18622 @ 0.0008827 = 16.4376 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: wow. that sounds cool. is it performant?
Bugpowder: Soon we will see what happened to the cold wallets.
mike_c: did i just make up a word? what i meant is it is fast?
dignork: Bugpowder: how do you locate the wallets? I mean what are the graph scan conditions?
Bugpowder: but I probably only need <100 blocks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00489989 = 0.98 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: A bunch were rapidly chained down to addresses of a few 1000 BTC each then they sat for a while
dignork: Bugpowder: ok, but how do you know the owner of 1M1ZkWpHfuQthji2AVsGDvpfY2PrcXQar6 ?
Bugpowder: The list may not be exhaustive though
Bugpowder: as the mt gox green address passes it the coins several links up the chain.
dignork: Bugpowder: public sources? link?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00489089 = 0.1076 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Gox Analysis - Imgur
mike_c: pretty bad luck. chetty suggested graphics drivers. so i updated my drivers and it hosed the box.
nubbins`: might be worth setting up a VM
mike_c: so i reinstalled, switching from ubuntu 13 to 12.04
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00489 = 0.1956 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: installed drivers, ran it.
mike_c: and got a seg fault even earlier than before
KRS-One: Bugpowder: matlap + blockchain ftw
jurov: yes? i got segfault too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00489 = 0.4205 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: yeah, that's where i'm at.
mike_c: has anyone actually got it running?
nubbins`: what bundle did you grab CS from, 0.0.1?
Bugpowder: I need to go record from the mouse brains... Will put this on hold for a bit.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.00489 = 0.1516 BTC [-]
jurov: i tried CS both from gentoo ebuild
jurov: but it was 2.0 and eulora needs 2.1 ??
jurov: which isn't released yet
nubbins`: i tried compiling a couple of 2.1 snapshots
jurov: eulora doesn't ship their CS cource?
nubbins`: i feel like it's in one of the earlier bundles
jurov: maybe they patched it internally
jurov: becuse i then used CS from 0.0.1 and it segfaults
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00489 = 0.1663 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00488899 = 0.5476 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: i'm gonna set up a wordpress blog in the next couple days so we can have a permanent home for compiling/troubleshooting etc info
nubbins`: not much experience with wikis
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00489647 = 0.9793 BTC [+] {3}
mike_c: so is wikimedia. just could be good to let anyone edit it
nubbins`: didn't think so, but honestly don't know
jurov: you can ask chetty if it can be right on minigame.bz, no?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.00489989 = 0.3283 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.125 = 0.75 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: i'd be willing to host one if there's interest.
ozbot: Features - Free Wiki Hosting - Wikkii - Free MediaWiki Host
jurov: i have nice and horribly underutilized php hosting at gandi, too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.004899 = 0.4899 BTC [-]
nubbins`: well i've got a saucy domain name
jurov: only use that free hosting if they allow backups
mike_c: btcalpha isn't exactly crumbling under the traffic load :)
jurov: welll... what about the jursdiction
mike_c: saucy domain name? what is it?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.0048925 = 0.2642 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: oh, CS in 0.0.1 is precompiled? i can't use this D:
nubbins`: (eulorum being both the singular of eulora and a portmanteau of "eulora" and "forum")
mike_c: i like it. so we have a domain name. what about software? any suggestions better than wikimedia?
nubbins`: i gotta say, i don't really like wikis
mike_c: you think blog style is better than community edit?
jurov: anything can get disorganized
nubbins`: well, if you give a few people write access
nubbins`: it's not a huge effort to modify, say, a post about compile instructions based on feedback in comments
nubbins`: that said, blog comments aren't great for back-and-forth
mike_c: i prefer wiki-style, but you're the one with the hot domain name
nubbins`: jurov's the one with the underutilized hosting
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 300 @ 0.00489971 = 1.4699 BTC [+] {5}
jurov: mike_c has hosrting, too. but it's in the US?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0049 = 0.196 BTC [+]
mike_c: virginia. it's good stuff, very close to nsa for easy monitoring.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0049 = 0.196 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00088342 = 5.3447 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.12225225 = 0.489 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: well, doesn't matter much to me who hosts it, why don't you guys flip a ;;coin or have an armwrestle or something
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 74 @ 0.00485 = 0.3589 BTC [-]
jurov: well, i'd be like, here's sftp account, diy
jurov: maybe mike can help more?
mike_c: i'd be fine with putting something up
mike_c: i mean, if it's wordpress we can just let them host. but i can throw up a wiki if that's the decision.
nubbins`: let's try a wiki and see what happens
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 51 @ 0.00489999 = 0.2499 BTC [+]
nubbins`: PM me dns servers and i'll update
mike_c: sure. i'll set it up tomorrow and send you info.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 716 @ 0.00492927 = 3.5294 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: good. i'm at amazon, too, if you need sth
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2020 @ 0.00498917 = 10.0781 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 498 @ 0.00499873 = 2.4894 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.108555 = 0.6513 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.06089999 = 0.3045 BTC [-]
MisterE: " MisterE, the volume numbers on MPOE for depth are complete and utter nonesense, he's claiming that his ultra thinly traded virtual stock trading on it's own market is worth more than a mtgox because the spot price was ludicrous"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 670 @ 0.005 = 3.35 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.109 = 0.436 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: the coffee i'm drinking is worth more than gox
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10994 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0609 = 0.1218 BTC [+]
bit14: !last havelock neobee
assbot: Last trade for NEOBEE on HAVELOCK was at 0.005 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10995 = 0.3299 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.005 = 0.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.005 = 0.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.005 = 0.55 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.005 = 0.16 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.002 / 0.00205889 / 0.0021 (849 shares, 1.75 BTC), 7D: 0.002 / 0.00211812 / 0.00226762 (3958 shares, 8.38 BTC), 30D: 0.00166114 / 0.00187389 / 0.00226762 (16869 shares, 31.61 BTC)
jurov: ;;calc 1/0.00211812
gribble: 1 BTC = 529.12 USD = 385.19936 eur
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00088152 = 11.1953 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 108 @ 0.005 = 0.54 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Crytocurrency of the Working Man
dignork: lol: coins are generated at the discretion of the chairman
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49225 = 0.9845 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00488573 = 1.2214 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.004999 = 0.2999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 302 @ 0.00485987 = 1.4677 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.12879992 = 0.3864 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.12879992 = 0.5152 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00485 = 0.1067 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.12879993 = 0.3864 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.004999 = 0.175 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 417 @ 0.00499899 = 2.0846 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.12884496 = 2.5769 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 499 @ 0.0049999 = 2.495 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 155 @ 0.00499999 = 0.775 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.005 = 1 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 140 @ 0.005 = 0.7 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 750 @ 0.00499946 = 3.7496 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00088346 = 3.1805 BTC [+]
nubbins`: on the bright side, i'm getting further with compiling crystal space on osx
mike_c: i just got it running on a VM. it wasn't 100% healthy, but it ran.
mike_c: i picked up some rotten fruit.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.128 = 0.256 BTC [-]
nubbins`: you may be the first pleb to successfully get 0.0.4 running
mike_c: :) hopefully i can run it on an actual machine and get better performance
nubbins`: VMs present pretty standard hardware
greenspan_fan: so, thoughts on the legitimacy of the my gox slide deck?
nubbins`: the one that came from some random nobody's tumblr, you mean? :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 207 @ 0.00499899 = 1.0348 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i doubt he would have done such a thing just to drive traffic to his blog. which happens to be a tumblr.
nubbins`: CS still compiling... occasional bouts of panic until i realize they're warnings i'm seeing, not errors
ozbot: scottansan comments on Copy of the alleged MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft
greenspan_fan: yeah, a guy on hacker news suggests that the redacted slide is visible using illustrator
kakobrekla: mark sez price is 135, halts gox at 135.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.48 = 2.4 BTC [-] {2}
greenspan_fan: but on the other, this would be the finest example of internet trolling meets market manipulation in recent memory
nubbins`: ugh, i don't want to sign up for a scribd account
nubbins`: someone paste a dropbox link etc to that pdf?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.005 = 0.485 BTC [+] {3}
ozbot: MtGox Situation: Crisis Strategy Draft
nubbins`: i want to download it, it's asking me to log in
dexX7: did you really consider this could be real? =D
nubbins`: there was an occasion a few years ago here where some government department decided to redact their own docs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02163333 = 0.1298 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: they did this by changing the background color to black in a Word doc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.0008835 = 23.1035 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: or there really is a consulting firm as lousy as mt gox is an exchange
nubbins`: "The reality is that MtGox can go bankrupt at any moment, and certainly deserves to as a company"
nubbins`: who the fuck would put a sentence like that in an internal memo?
nubbins`: seems like a poorly-orchestrated smear
Jakamoko: doesn't look real, but it is working. bitstamp is sliding under 500
nubbins`: eeeee, ton of deprecated method calls
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.005 = 0.18 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: another possibility is that the pdf is substantially accurate, but still fabricated
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1169 @ 0.005 = 5.845 BTC [+]
the20year: alot of people are assuming alot of things
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 115 @ 0.0051823 = 0.596 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0002002 = 0.2002 BTC [+]
dexX7: blacked out the numbers
dexX7: at least his name is bound to the note
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 146 @ 0.0052526 = 0.7669 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: aka the guy whose tumblr blog this story came from.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.104 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 280 @ 0.00529157 = 1.4816 BTC [+] {4}
dexX7: yea, but is thsi the guy from the stupid blog?
Apocalyptic: the funny thing is that the halt was after the doc got released
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.05030097 = 0.1006 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.00540514 = 0.5243 BTC [+] {5}
ozbot: Bitcoin Aware | Aritcles | BitBeat: Apple Drops Bitcoin App From App Store, Bitcoiners Not Happy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 321 @ 0.00545 = 1.7495 BTC [+] {8}
nubbins`: "...wrote Ryan Selkis, who publishes the “Two-Bit Idiot” daily newsletter"
ozbot: BitBeat: Bitcoin’s ‘Honest Nodes’ Under Attack - MoneyBeat - WSJ
nubbins`: "...Ryan Selkis wrote in his Two-Bit Idiot newsletter"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00545 = 0.5777 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: so either this guy fabricated the whole thing
ThickAsThieves: “I am livid, just like so many of you,” wrote Ryan Selkis, who publishes the “Two-Bit Idiot” daily newsletter. “For them to backdoor their users like this on Bitcoin makes me want to start an uprising. (I think others may have already started it though.)”
nubbins`: or he found a legit doc and self-redacted a bunch of info for no reason
greenspan_fan: I am trying to find a btc address to see if he's dumb enough to be buying massively after releasing damaging news
greenspan_fan: alas and alack, he's not blatantly asking for tips somewhere
greenspan_fan: meanwhile, every exchange is down 20% while the dude's launching some kind of btc venture fund
nubbins`: hahahahahah what a fucking rube, you can just highlight the goddamn redacted text
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.12300001 = 0.492 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00545 = 0.109 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: yeah. I will further speculate that it's his hoax, because the slide deck is all about social media and assorted bullshit
the20year: where is this redacted balance sheet from?
dexX7: the black on the text is simply a comment, you can delete it or set the transparency to 0
greenspan_fan: when it should go into detail about the whole "not going bankrupt and not going to jail" plan
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 19 @ 0.0055 = 0.1045 BTC
nubbins`: actually in osx preview it's not even black but translucent grey
greenspan_fan: of course, the rebranding as "gox.com" is hilarious, too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 118 @ 0.00549039 = 0.6479 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: as is the "we are a bunch of cunts who shouldn't be in business" line
the20year: i got kicked from #bitcoin for posting that
greenspan_fan: the biggest coinbase booster somehow stumbles onto documents pertaining to the demise of coinbase's biggest rival
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 53 @ 0.005491 = 0.291 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: and, fwiw, the whole shitstorm started with the guy posting a link to his own tumblr on reddit
Apocalyptic: <ThickAsThieves> they are confirming the insolvency // I feel like they are
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 183 @ 0.005495 = 1.0056 BTC [+] {2}
dub__: s/compnies/dude in moms basement/
cazalla: whois gox.com does show karpeles though
copumpkin: cazalla: you can put anyone's info on a domain
cazalla: i don't see someone using a premium 3 letter domain to push a scam
greenspan_fan: or maybe coinbase's latest pivot is into straight-up crime?
dexX7: a few words of the pdf results only the gox paper itself on google
greenspan_fan: Top post on HN tomorrow: How we used social media, adobe illustrator, and bitcoin in order to destroy a rival business
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.004869 = 0.1022 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.12249 = 1.2249 BTC [-] {3}
greenspan_fan: from the unredacted link, I think some of the columns literally don't add up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.121 = 0.242 BTC [-]
cazalla: i hope it's true, great buying opp
Bugpowder: Well, I guess I don't really need to finish my cold wallet analysis.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 294 @ 0.005495 = 1.6155 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Ryan Selkis is full of shit - Imgur
dexX7: "- New brand and services ready to be launched (Bitcoin Cafe, ..." lol
gx: gox will be back, better than ever
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.12087093 = 1.8131 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00549889 = 0.4949 BTC [+]
gx: people are gonna flock to their bitcoin cafe and deposit hundreds of thousands of coins
cazalla: who in their right mind who use gox even if they fixed everything after all this
dexX7: wow goxcoins at 0.11
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.120033 = 0.7202 BTC [-] {3}
the20year: wonder if we could hit the 1mb limit?
gx: pretty elaborate hoax though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.11482776 = 0.689 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 71 @ 0.005495 = 0.3901 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.12517994 = 0.2504 BTC [+]
nubbins`: Bugpowder, so why is this guy redacting these "real" PDFs himself?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 126 @ 0.00545 = 0.6867 BTC [-]
ozbot: Joint Statement Regarding the Insolvency of MtGox | Blockchain.info Team Blog
cazalla: guess they drafted it together
nubbins`: cazalla: that's what a joint statement is :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0054 = 0.216 BTC [-]
cazalla: changing it after posting might suggest otherwise
the20year: they redacted the 'insolvency' word
greenspan_fan: if you had access to a real pdf, why would you redact everything using illustrator?
cazalla: wonder how long until blockchain redact it
Bugpowder: Well... Bitcoin-assets people called it first. Days ago.
ThickAsThieves: the redaction was likely done using a 3rd party PDF editor
greenspan_fan: and the numbers are purely speculative for the future and drawn from mt gox's reports for the past
gx: greenspan_fan they forgot to mention the 200,000BTC they're gonna make w/ their cafe though. gotta weigh that in.
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: it was probably redacted with OSX Preview
gx: you talking about the last page of the document where everything is blacked out?
nubbins`: if it was originally created with keynote
nubbins`: gx: you can highlight the text and copy/paste
greenspan_fan: but if it is a hoax, and one of those 'startup ftw!' jackasses made it, then they might be sunk as well
gx: ah, so that's why it's a hoax, someone just c+p their annual report to the last page to make it seem legit?
gx: am i reading that right
greenspan_fan: which would be, I think, the funniest thing since pirate
gx: or, projections rather
greenspan_fan: because some of the columns don't seem to add up, or I'm reading it wrong?
Bugpowder: Coinbase has too much money invested in it now by serious people for this to be bullshit
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: to make it seem legit.
greenspan_fan: you are way overestimating the intelligence of the silicon valley people
the20year: i find it interesting they're doing it jointly with compeditors
greenspan_fan: how did they all get together and become confident enough to risk getting sued in the space of a couple hours?
gx: it's members of the btc foundation
gx: which the gox guy just stepped down
ThickAsThieves: coinbase is worried theyll have less customers thats all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 803 @ 0.00509856 = 4.0941 BTC [-] {9}
nubbins`: browser is smart enough to not choke
nubbins`: Apocalyptic: i still think the pdf is fake, yes
nubbins`: [23:53:10] <nubbins`> oh, don't get me wrong, gox is broke
nubbins`: [23:53:14] <nubbins`> everything is gone
Apocalyptic: as unreal as it may appear, I think the doc is legit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00543499 = 0.2174 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: but why is it so poorly written, why did the guy who "discovered" the doc redact a page?
gx: mightve been written in haste as an initial draft
Apocalyptic: <nubbins`> but why is it so poorly written, // why is the all mtgox system so poorly written ?
gx: fired off to someone for approval and then leaked
gx: obviously they all know theyre steering a sinking ship
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: because the redactions (actually black highlights) have his name on them
nubbins`: open your pdf viewer, and enable highlights/notes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 29 @ 0.00541999 = 0.1572 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: Duffer1: some guy who "leaked" this pdf.
greenspan_fan: which is the resume of every scam artist in the space
dexX7: did trading on gox stop?
dexX7: api is still available
ozbot: Ryan Selkis | LinkedIn
gx: last 2 hrs of data missing for us
nubbins`: honestly, i think this selkis guy completely fabricated the pdf and associated "story", for whatever reason, but then it grew legs, people started panicking and issuing statements, so gox (who knew it was only a matter of time anyway) decided now was as good a time as any to give it up
ThickAsThieves: December 2013 – Present (3 months)Boston, San Francisco
ThickAsThieves: Bitcoin's decentralized, privately funded version of the FDIC. We reduce volatility for consumers while helping hedge funds invest in bitcoin.
gx: seems like selkis is in competition w/ gox in one way or another.
nubbins`: an asshole who wanted cheap coin for his business was the straw that broke gox's back
nubbins`: honestly wouldn't have guessed
Apocalyptic: <nubbins`> an asshole who wanted cheap coin for his business was the straw that broke gox's back // are you serious ?
ThickAsThieves: Founder Good-Benefits - Creator of the first ever "401k for charity" • Worked at @Summit Partners, @Former Analyst at JPMorgan Investment Bank • Studied at @BC
nubbins`: Apocalyptic: am i ever serious? :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00088369 = 5.7882 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: man, CS is still building. shoulda made a pizza
ozbot: Ryan Selkis - YouTube
kakobrekla: www.businessinsider.com.au/falcon-global-capital-offers-to-buy-the-fbis-bitcoins-2014-2
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00520006 = 0.156 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: hell, this channel could muster a better offer than them
nubbins`: let's all chip in on 14% below
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 41 @ 0.0609 = 2.4969 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 267 @ 0.00492521 = 1.315 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 251 @ 0.0021 = 0.5271 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: I wonder if it would be better just to buy mt gox?
ozbot: overview for SarahCoinBit
greenspan_fan: or visit DPR in prison? ... if you wanted to buy questionable coins in bulk
Apocalyptic: KRS-One, can you get a registration date for the account ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1071 @ 0.00478179 = 5.1213 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.12337774 = 0.3701 BTC [-] {2}
dexX7: redditor for 28 days
ozbot: historian1111 comments on MtGOX Situation Crisis Draft
jayk: lights out for mtgox?
gx: interesting point, they intentionally tried to tank the price so theyd be liable for less
gx: and froze at a low point
nubbins`: "i remember where i was when i found out mtgox was gone... sitting on my ass in front of the computer"
greenspan_fan: interestingly enough, that's also where I was on 9/11
nubbins`: heh, i was smoking a joint outside the library at uni
the20year: I was watching regis and kelly on 9/11
nubbins`: was locked in an exam room for the actual event, didn't find out until hours afterwards
ThickAsThieves: would be more fun if we were all in a real room sharing a joint
nubbins`: greenspan_fan: honestly can't recall ;(
jayk: they were allowing trading up until today
nubbins`: aww, i was going to prove it several different ways ;(
nubbins`: now it's all left as an exercise to the reader
ThickAsThieves: so if it is true, then that means the lost coins are already priced in
greenspan_fan: that would make sense, because otherwise people who traded via bitcoin builder would be furious
nubbins`: 10x = 9.99.., ergo 10x-x = 9.99... - .99..., ergo 9x = 9, ergo x = 1
nubbins`: you can do it with infinite series too
nubbins`: i really regret not selling at $23
the20year: it's like everything else , once you screw the pooch it can't be undone
greenspan_fan: assuming they have any money at all (which they might, if they were front running the market all week)
greenspan_fan: they'll be able to cover at least some of the deposits
greenspan_fan: how many black lotuses would you need to sell to cover 700 000 btc?
nubbins`: "at least some" might as well be "none"
nubbins`: greenspan_fan: depends, are you a dealer? :D
Duffer1: is that a MTG ref greenspan fan?
nubbins`: TBH i thought he was talking about sports cars
Diablo-D3: top 5 stories on hn, with a sixth further down are mtgox
nubbins`: met a girl who raced a lotus once
greenspan_fan: because HN was one of the first places to hear about bitcoin, and almost none of the people got in on it
the20year: I *got in* on bitcoin in the first 3 months, didn't do me much good by not sticking with it :D
greenspan_fan: really? did you not have a good graphics card or something?
ozbot: Joint Statement Regarding MtGox | Blockchain.info Team Blog
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 169 @ 0.005 = 0.845 BTC [+] {3}
greenspan_fan: wasn't that a scam fund from that guy who ripped off mircea?
the20year: Went to a bunch of faucets after downloading the client, the ones that were giving 1 to 0.5btc out per day per time you hit the faucet
the20year: Never did anything with teh wallet, showed up at office one day and the client was open, all coins gone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 370 @ 0.00086094 = 0.3185 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1192 @ 0.00498438 = 5.9414 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00088402 = 25.1504 BTC [+]
the20year: there was some java/ad exploit that took alot of coins from people running XP, and I was one of them, right around the time bitcoin hit like $20 for the first time due to all the silk road press, maybe that was 2011?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 363 @ 0.0008648 = 0.3139 BTC [+]
ozbot: Pope revolutionizes Vatican by opening finances to scrutiny
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1229 @ 0.00086544 = 1.0636 BTC [+] {4}
the20year: I would be too , but I have very little personal cash available for btc, but also sadly have a decent bit of BTC from investors to be converted to fiat to buy property
jurov: i'd try to postpone that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 225 @ 0.00086797 = 0.1953 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: if you use bitcoins your raised you are cheating shareholders
the20year: But we are locked into contracts on two properties
greenspan_fan: seriously, I would not be surprised if it's higher than ever in a week
jurov: or you should have insured using mpoe options
jurov: oh i forgot mpoe is down :(
the20year: That would have been the better choice, one of the bigger issues has been waiting on havelock to send me the coins, they aren't deposited on a wallet on our side
the20year: Granted I did cash out part of them at $700
ThickAsThieves: hmm i'm just realizing that last i talked to my brother he was using gox as a wallet
the20year: I have quite a few investors that have lost out quite a bit of coin at gox
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.005 = 0.15 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: don't worry, I'm sure gox.com is going to be a huge hit
the20year: I think in between bitfuner and gox, just the inevstors I've talked to have lost 150+btc
Diablo-D3: top 6 stories on hn are mtgox, 7th rising
greenspan_fan: are there any bitcoin death pools? because I don't think karpeles will have been priced properly yet
greenspan_fan: I am thinking either angry investor puts a hit out w/ the yakuza, or he commits hari kiri. Place your bets.
the20year: You guys see the video of our glorious next purchase of 2 houses on one lot?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.12212177 BTC [-]
nubbins`: just had one of those "went downstairs to find a lighter, came across a vial of oil" moments
Vexual: hes speaking literally
Bones_: wow, thought it was just some nasty rumor earlier. I come back and poof
nubbins`: greenspan_fan: to remove the oil from the vial
jurov: nubbins` gonna make a molotow
jurov: and throw it to gox office
Vexual: i listened to some earlier
Vexual: pretty good, i might need to be in the mood for it
Vexual: hard to think while listening :)
the20year: Bask in the glory of a 385sqft cottage
the20year: Granted they're throwing in a 2300sf duplex along with everything
dexX7: Bugpowder: where's that from?
greenspan_fan: Idk, I am having a great time w/ my array of proxies
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.00514814 = 0.278 BTC [+] {2}
bloctoc: It will help government determine the size of the bailout required
nubbins`: this just in, obama bails out gox
ozbot: Another "Successful Banker" Found Dead | Zero Hedge
ozbot: Can you withdraw from Mt.Gox?
greenspan_fan: man I am going to feel really bad if gox exec actually off themselves
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 82 @ 0.00518412 = 0.4251 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: I am picturing it now: suicide note partially obscured by condensation from the frappuchino placed on top
Bones_: I'm thinking more like yakuza as you said
ozbot: Hey Charlie Shrem, was this the good news on the horizon you were talking about? : Bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.000869 = 0.1738 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00518999 = 0.3892 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: or satashi nakamoto, the real brains behind mt. gox, swoops in to bail everyone out with his million bitcoin stash
ozbot: Andy Booth Sells Gox.com | DomainInvesting.com
ThickAsThieves: On February 21, 2014, Andy Booth was listed as the domain name registrant, according to a historical Whois record.
ThickAsThieves: My brother met domain broker Joe Politzer in Singapore who got excited about gox.com and then I said he could try to sell it if he wanted. He called Karpeles and Gox to find out if they wanted it and immediately they expressed pretty strong interest. I’ve asked Mark if it’s ok to publish details (no response as yet).”
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 74 @ 0.00518999 = 0.3841 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: don't think mark's going to be responding to anybody
greenspan_fan: the question remains, though, who got the 700 000 btc?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 22 @ 0.0055 = 0.121 BTC
ozbot: Mt.Gox just proceeded a bunch of JPY withdrawal today : Bitcoin
jurov: hi mircea_popescu, all according to plan?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00515 = 1.03 BTC [-]
greenspan_fan: a really suspicious slide deck about mt gox going under surfaced
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 68 @ 0.0051335 = 0.3491 BTC [-] {2}
greenspan_fan: seems like it was legit; they've essentially gone dark
mircea_popescu: listen, all this is a lot less exciting if YOU KNOW IT WILL HAPPEM
Vexual: bugpowders running gox add on matlab
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan basically, mtgox demise was decided april 2013, at the secret conference nobody went to.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 75 @ 0.0055 = 0.4125 BTC
mircea_popescu: and the fact that the scammer troop has coordinated ballet on the topic is really just a sign of how fucking stupid they are.
mircea_popescu: kinda the only reason i like vessenes. he's so fucking dumb.
the20year: did the buildabetterburgers take down gox?
ozbot: Twitter / MagicalGox: Send me 1BTC and I will resolve ...
Vexual: Bugpowder, is matlab saying when yet?
ozbot: Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox offline amid 'insolvency' charges | Internet & Media - CNET News
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder kinda what happens when you delete your posts, you know ? people start the takeover.
greenspan_fan: what is interesting, though, is that you might be able to follow the block chain from the earlier transactions
greenspan_fan: I'm betting julian assange did it, to fund his jihad against america
greenspan_fan: bitcoin becomes the national currency of ecuador and he flees britain as a citizen
ozbot: Iranians hacked Navy network for four months? Not a surprise. | Ars Technica
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10975 BTC [+]
dexX7: there is also this post from wsj earlier:
http://archive.is/NLLpV - "According to documents seen by The Wall Street Journal, Tibanne Co., which operates Mt. Gox, is expected to generate a small profit in the fiscal year ending in March from exchange transaction fees. The forecast, however, assumes bitcoin prices well above current levels."
ThickAsThieves: an IPO to buy the domain after scammers are done with it?
Vexual: nub, i think it'd be hard to miss that much btc over time
mircea_popescu: wasn't i explaining before how goxshit isn't worth money ?
ozbot: MtGox and ancient Bitcoin history - the straight dope. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
greenspan_fan: and that guy looks like he's experienced a couple "non-standard deviations"
mircea_popescu: i suppose that article may read differently in light of events.
nubbins`: "Successive emperors became the captors of various factions of eunuchs."
nubbins`: the type of shit that'd put House of Cards to shame
Apocalyptic: <greenspan_fan> and that guy looks like he's experienced a couple "non-standard deviations" // heh
greenspan_fan: did you see the latest season? I'd say it was a contender, even sans eunuchs
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: netflix-only television show based on a bbc television show based on a novel. the netflix version centers around u.s. political intrigue, specifically kevin spacey's machinations towards the presidency
greenspan_fan: with significant inspiration from caro's biography of lyndon johnson
nubbins`: worth watching, we swallowed season 2 over about 4 days
nubbins`: lots of intrigue, subterfuge, etc
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: greenspan_fan: never read the bio, HoC s2 was great tho
nubbins`: they've been renewed for a third, hey?
greenspan_fan: nubbins I am angry that I'll have to wait for a year, though
greenspan_fan: you must be the only altcoin creator without 10,000 sockpuppets
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 18 @ 0.16230094 = 2.9214 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00088332 = 18.5497 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
greenspan_fan: isn't that like the clown from those stephen king novels?
nubbins`: ^ this is the proper way to deal with this issue, not a fucking cloudflare snapshot
nubbins`: what's a snapshot of an exchange website going to do for me?
Vexual: i wonder if magicdunce will shoot thru? he must have thousands of high res passports
nubbins`: i thought the twitter fail whale was neat
ThickAsThieves: "Interestingly the folks at secondmarket called me today to say that there will be a one week halt on all new BIT purchases and their trading department is no longer taking any new positions."
mircea_popescu: <Vexual> i wonder if magicdunce will shoot thru? he must have thousands of high res passports <<< EPIC
mircea_popescu: you know how like a certain fucktarded ceo is making his own stock exchgange ? cause he knows better ?
mircea_popescu: you know how ycombinator isn't hiring BingoBoingo to tell them what's what ?
mircea_popescu: you know how the twinkleloss brothers don't feel like they need to be here ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.0005 = 0.5 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: that's exactly how second market thinks it knows better than me
mircea_popescu: the common word describing these is, of course, stupidity.
Bones_: If everyone was in here, then we wouldn't make as much money?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan or i could add spikes on my cock, to leave better marks on assholes.
greenspan_fan: but gox was able to siphon off 700 000 btc because they had javascript and css basically
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 546 @ 0.00445591 = 2.4329 BTC [-] {20}
ThickAsThieves: @Mircea_Popescu @therealaltcoin Lol even google image can tell its peter
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan you have to take into consideration 80+% of that was when btc was < $1
☟︎ Vexual: still a lot of milkshakes
Bugpowder: OK... let's get back to racking these cold wallets
nubbins`: ah, bc.info has edited their statement as well
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu but surely you have some pretty sick programmers working for you? idk much about web frontends, so idk if it's bad security
benkay: much drama and lulz today?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 46 @ 0.00518998 = 0.2387 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00518998 = 0.2284 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu presumably if you/your employees could implement a sophisticated exchange (with all the countermeasures in order to ensure continuous operation) you could at least add some css to mpex.co
nubbins`: kind of forgot that it makes a link that people can click ;(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 765 @ 0.00522621 = 3.9981 BTC [+] {3}
Vexual: i guess bp dont want prtd matleb on a machine that has blockchain
greenspan_fan: at this point idk whether it's positive (as a mark of differentiation) or whether you're losing business because it seems like it's pre-1999
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 134 @ 0.00525893 = 0.7047 BTC [+] {3}
ozbot: 3,129,573,174.52229 | Next Diff in 598 blocks | Estimated Change: 20.5183% in 3d 7h 2m 4s
mircea_popescu: leading question : how much business is nyse losing by not having a drive-thru presence in most shopping malls ?
mircea_popescu: leading question #2 : what could the concept of "Accredited investor" mean in bitcoin, and how would one go about meaningfully implementing it ?
greenspan_fan: I actually bought some options for ibm at wal-mart earlier today, so times are changing
mircea_popescu: pankkake pls to 1000 atc to 1CgNLdNUaXFawURSBuX4xBHv53GhGZ3XuC ty
jurov: greenspan_fan: clearly there's market gap for you to exploit
mircea_popescu: greenspan_ the times are only changing in the sense the us is going under.
mircea_popescu: but yes, as the j man says, nothing keeps you from doing brokerage for any market segment you identify and think you can serve.
greenspan_fan: putting it another way, given your thoughts re: art, you could consider patronizing some pre-autistic teenager with a color palette and a dream
Bones_: greenspan_fan - if anything his website exudes "dude who knows what the fuck he is doing". Not to suck your dick or anything mp but anyway that's how I saw the website
benkay: an accredited bitcoin investor accumulates bitcoins
benkay: they are accredited by virtue of having and accumulating bitcoins
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves inasmuch as one intends to measure sophistication, bitcoin holdings alone would show on the historical record an insufficient measure.
fract4l: mircea_popescu: did you predict GOX demise??
benkay: that's why the accumulation's important, mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 404 @ 0.0053995 = 2.1814 BTC [-] {2}
copumpkin: joe shmoe mined 10000 coins on his old laptop in 2009 as a joke
benkay: copumpkin you missed the part about accumulation.
greenspan_fan: Bones_ only because he's influential enough that people ought to be aware
mircea_popescu: i just got an email from a friend, it goes "hey can i have like 10-20 bux worth of bitcoin cause im testing this service and i lost all the btc i mined on my laptop back in the day"
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: hey, can you send me 10 coins? thanks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2879 @ 0.00539996 = 15.5465 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan but srsly, it's legitimate. if you think you can help some people do shit, help them. nothing wrong with that.
mircea_popescu: a large chunk of the way i designed mpex is so as to empower people to grow their own stuff
mircea_popescu: rather than try and corner the entire market. cornered markets don't grow.
jurov: he insist to help you to proper css, you know
fract4l: interesting that MP, the #1 hated guy on the forums, turns out to have more integrity then anyone thought......
fract4l: he also has spot-on predictions
copumpkin: I trust mircea_popescu to be honest
fract4l: mircea_popescu: haha... i suppose so. maybe your picture on the camel made people not take you seriously?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 442 @ 0.00539998 = 2.3868 BTC [+] {2}
Apocalyptic: fract4l, how dare you, that's a great picture
ninjashogun: Not much ThickAsThieves . I'm raising $50K for a new job web site based on applied graph theory (not to relationships/connections - something else)
ThickAsThieves: <ThickAsThieves> OneFixt did you at least diversify into other exchanges already?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3316 @ 0.00539996 = 17.9063 BTC [-] {3}
fract4l: Apocalyptic: hey, personally i think the camel picture is hilarious....
ThickAsThieves: i trolled the guy enough you'd think he'd have learned...
fract4l: ThickAsThieves: did you lose any coin on gox?
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, he claimed to have almost everything in gox
fract4l: well, losing my coins on gox is going to seriously motivate me to work harder to make more BTC.
OneFixt: Bugpowder: i have enough, Bugpowder, don't worry
ninjashogun: WhatsApp just sold for $16Billion, and there is a huge bubble in the valley . technical jobs are very scarce. we have 1) something much better than search, based on graph theory (without sayin gmore) and 2) a reason people will upload their profiles for this reason :) We can get a lot of technical profiles just from launch / announcements (on hacker news etc)
fract4l: i'm *SHOCKED* that bitcoinbuilder is still above 0.00000001
Duffer1: ninjashogun tell us more about how to invest
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun unless you manage to lay zuck you're not in this game.
ozbot: Bitcoin-Analysis (BitcoinOracle) on Twitter
Bones_: ninjashogun, will this site help me get laid
ninjashogun: No, keyword search doesn't use graph theory. It uses set theory. (In the form of database design)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla check it out, your shitty chan is about to break 200
greenspan_fan: but, for instance, facebook's whole deal is modelling via social graph
ninjashogun: database queries are applied set theory. Ours is different, it's based on graph theory and is a very novel application that results in much better matches ,and ALSO a good reason for people to upload their profiles.
copumpkin: ninjashogun: pagerank is a graph algorithm :)
ozbot: How to recover your money as a small time investor with funds in mtgox
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun basically everyone's point is that regardless how you personally look at it, mathematic reality is accessible to everyone on their own terms.
greenspan_fan: also, idk how they teach qm in romania, but you can get by OK without knowing matrix mechanics
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <mike_c> :) hopefully i can run it on an actual machine and get better performance
ninjashogun: So just to put this in context I have just connected this week with the other mathetician I am creating this site with, so it is a very fresh startup opportunity. To whoever asked about the means of investing, standard terms as you would suggest based on hearing abou thte opportunity etc.
benkay: hoo booo whaaat qm without matrix operations?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan yes, but that doesn't mean any part of qm is inaccessible to matrix.
dexX7: this is somehow sad.. i wonder for how many bitcoin was a pain instead of pleasure
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I have no idea why you wrote thta to me
ninjashogun: "mathematic reality is accessible to everyone on their own terms"
greenspan_fan: but I always conceptualized pagerank for instance as being essentially graph theoretic in nature
Duffer1: what's your business plan?
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 it's a start-up, what business plan. they maybe have an idea is all.
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: well, there's an obvious interpretation of a square matrix as a graph
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - hi, Duffer1 . The business plan is to get profiles for free, based on the novel application, which will cause people to want to upload their profiles to us, and use them to fill vacancies scraped from other sites. (Meaning for starters the other sites get the money from it.)
nubbins`: 5 if you want, all the rules still work
nubbins`: you just won't be able to make a physical model of it anymore
copumpkin: then matrix multiplication "walks" the graph
greenspan_fan: ninjashogun the scraping part could be a thing unto itself
ninjashogun: Duffer1, then when we have a set of profiles and a critical mass, we can get listings ourselves directly, and get the money from them. However, there has to be content initially.
copumpkin: you can then multiply graphs with unusual semirings to get more interesting behavior
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun specifically, what is the problem you are solving ?
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, I don't think so. I am sure every job site would be open to us sending people to their ads :)
nubbins`: it comforts me that math still works with more than three spatial dimensions
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's okay, Mr Hig Uyse proved that any set of cats can be packed in less than 7 dimensions.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the specific problem we're solving is "connecting jobs with job-seekers". I.e. finding the best qualified candidate for an employer, or the place to work for a job-seeker. BETTER than a text search where they both just blurt out what they need (exactly) on the part of the employer or everything they have done (exactly) on the part of the job seeker.
greenspan_fan: you don't need business, just data. Cash out and pass the buck to facebook or whomever
ninjashogun: which is how keyword search (status quo) works.
nubbins`: bad news for the imgur giraffe tho
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun but how do you account for flexibility in either side ?
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, that is the problem we have solved.
mircea_popescu: (some people don't want to do a specific job, but whatever, some people don't want something specific done, but whatever IS done) ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.48000142 = 3.36 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: some people don't want the best and brightest, they just want people who can do an okay job
ninjashogun: No other site does this - other sites just are glorified text searches or databse searches.
nubbins`: unfortunately all these people are in btc ;(
copumpkin: I saw my profile(s) on gild.com the other day
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 58 @ 0.00539997 = 0.3132 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: also, consider how many jobs are filled by referrals
copumpkin: it was interesting, because they thought there were two of me
nubbins`: a job search where mediocre employees can find already-defeated employers
copumpkin: and one of them had high expertise, low desirability, and the other had low expertise high desirability
nubbins`: as cheeky as that sounds, you're actually onto something there
nubbins`: tier 2 job search for people who know they're not up to snuff
copumpkin: finding good hires is actually pretty hard
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.473 = 4.257 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1571 @ 0.00463921 = 7.2882 BTC [-] {24}
ninjashogun: So I am looking for a roughly $50K investment (nominal, could be less). Is anyone here in a position to conssider that, has a portfolio and has been involved iwth other startups in the past? An interest in mathematics (specifically graph theory) helps immensely.
copumpkin: so if ninjashogun can get it up and running, he'll have a lot of willing customers
greenspan_fan: my idea for a start-up involves me applying to thousands of places for remote work, then farming out the resulting offers to india
greenspan_fan: since the netflix for prostitutes was immediately rejected by y combinator
ninjashogun: the moment I announce on hackernews (hwere I have a profile) at the right time of day, I will have some sign-ups
antephialtic: can you specify the specific graph theory problem you are trying to solve? (other than simple bipartate matching)
ninjashogun: Yes, but we have an innovation they don't.
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: Specifically, @CharlieShrem ...
copumpkin: and the good people aren't looking
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 284 @ 0.00427064 = 1.2129 BTC [-] {9}
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun people here are worth well over a billion all together.
ninjashogun: antephialtic - No, I don't want to specify it here. It's not about solving an unsolved problem, but rather applying existing theory in a novel way.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i'll bet you're not getting a dime so far.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, ok... that doesn't really help me though :) I'm not here raising Series A.
greenspan_fan: yeah, does it have CSS? that's what I want to know
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1130 @ 0.00415 = 4.6895 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17382 @ 0.00088296 = 15.3476 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, it doesn't matter if they're worth $10M altogether or $10B. As long as at least one person here has a portfolio and is interested in startups
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun they're also inclined to play, something vc's aren't normally. ATC got started because people were bored and so far cost about 50k or thereabouts.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 446.96, Best ask: 448.9, Bid-ask spread: 1.94000, Last trade: 448.9, 24 hour volume: 66688.95383623, 24 hour low: 442.12, 24 hour high: 579.34, 24 hour vwap: 529.068851738
ninjashogun: antephialitc - the specific graph theory problem is related to shortest-path
mircea_popescu: "Ice-breaking ships help keep Chesapeake Bay waters safe" <<< check out all the global warming.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00420001 = 0.42 BTC [+] {4}
greenspan_fan: my new startup idea: an automated, high-quality "human" activity generator for nascent startups looking for funding
mircea_popescu: if you manage to insert it into the next round of ycombinator a la sokal, you get a bonus.
davout_: greenspan_fan: interesting
Duffer1: ninjashogun do you have any product at all atm to show?
ThickAsThieves: customizable filter templates, fully weightable factors, totally transparent seo
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - no, I just met and spoke with my cofounder today :)
davout: no, i'm a create-your-own-exchange consultant
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, above where you say "ATC got started because people were bored" - what is ATC pls?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun for the other part of your question, i would say everyone speaking here knows a lot of math.
copumpkin: asciilifeform: which NP complete problem?
greenspan_fan: it doesn't have to be a solution, just an approximation
greenspan_fan: I get really sick of people defending btc-dev not doing important things because they're "probably" np-complete
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
ninjashogun: Here is the other person's profile that he responded with: "I am a full stack web/desktop/mobile developer. Currently my weapon of choice is C# for the back end stuff, and JavaScript for the front end. I am also versed in Objective-C (I have three apps on the app store). Daily my bread and butter is developing web apps. Lately I've been developing cross-platform mobile games. I have a degree in Math, so I know just a bit of graph theory... this
ninjashogun: project sounds interesting. I'm open and interested in hearing more about this project."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0045 = 0.9 BTC [+] {3}
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu ranking sickness of it is (probably) np-complete
ninjashogun: And for a bit of information, the team is distributed - he is in Kentucky and I am from Boston
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - is a distributed team a problem for you?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun listen, you're really misbehaving here, albeit perhaps unintentionally. the correct approach is to lurk and read the logs for about half a year. then you'll be in a position to meaningfully engage th dragons here.
mircea_popescu: i get that this doesn't help you any in the sense of getting you to do what you want to do
mircea_popescu: and while that is unfortunate, it's nevertheless what it is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 307 @ 0.0045 = 1.3815 BTC [+] {6}
Duffer1: ^and it is genuinely to your benefit to take that advice
ninjashogun: Duffer1 I can PM you the specific graph application (in gerneral terms)
ozbot: La firma pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ninjashogun: again, this is the idea that caused this startup to be created this week. (I did consult with advisors the last week or two about it.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 118 @ 0.00450001 = 0.531 BTC [+]
Duffer1: keep this chan open when you can though, hang around
gribble: You have not yet rated user advisor
mircea_popescu: and get a positive result, you haven't in fact consulted any advisors.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0045001 = 0.45 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: it isn't meant to be discouraging, just that you have to do some ground work, have something to show off (like a demo, or some sort of model, at least), before anyone can make an informed investment decision
ninjashogun: So what I was tihnking is that this isn't a real 'forum' (in that most IRC channels are basically just trolls etc) and that I would just escalate to another form of contact (skype etc) and be in touch while it gets rolled out
ninjashogun: the other thing is we don't REALLY have any capitalization requirements.
ninjashogun: it's all software, we have jobs at the moment
mircea_popescu: when the sec wanted to talk to me i forced them to come here.
ninjashogun: so out of a $50K investment, probably a few hundred would go to server costs and $47K would sit in the bank for six months. while we build it (Though I know that is not what investors like to hear)
greenspan_fan: personally, I think it would be cool to invest in a start up, but I'm kinda averse to giving cash to pseudonyms in irc who aren't incorporated, have no references, no demos
mircea_popescu: at the rate we're going i'll prolly publish the bundle in a coupla weeks.
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, so first of all obviously you would not give a cash to a pseduonmn :) We can get in touch if appropriate. Could you tell me a bit about yourself - do you have any investments in startups to date? (or been involved iwth one)? Do you like matheatics or theoretical computer science?
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Nope, it sounds like a good idea, but I don't think it will really work. the reason the pregnancy ones work is the hormone level goes up >1000x. MMPs are not that unregulated, maybe 2-3x by volume? Need to read the paper but I imagine the ROC curve is pretty ugly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.0008839 = 26.4286 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: my head goes "yes, but maybe it goes up locally ?" but how would i know.
benkay: "cool to invest in a startup"
benkay: this is what is wrong with the planet
benkay: unlike the vcs, i suppose
Bugpowder: Not to mention, early diagnosis of some cancers has no effect on mortality, but does decrease QOL
Bugpowder: and increase care costs dramatically
greenspan_fan: benkay I've just never had anyone ask me for money and it turn out well, so I am holding out hope for ninjashogun
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, I haven't asked you for money :)
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder for public benefit, mind enumerating those types ?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i take it your wife doesn't ask, just takes ? :D
joecool: mircea_popescu: congrats on mpex outliving yet another exchange
mircea_popescu: joecool well ty, tho it's kinda chearting. mpex never did fiat.
benkay: in other news, i'm talking about lisp at the Portland Python night this month. if there are any Portlanders listening, you should come and NOT TALK ABOUT BITCOIN FFS.
ozbot: Monthly Presentation Night -
ozbot: Russian units transferred from securing the Sochi games to the Ukraine border
mircea_popescu: what i hear is they moved something like 10k armored vehicles so far today.
davout: oh nice, i didn't the dip
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 52 @ 0.00509969 = 0.2652 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.0008853 = 27.5328 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.1115081 = 0.5575 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7161 @ 0.00088296 = 6.3229 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 460.0, Best ask: 463.46, Bid-ask spread: 3.46000, Last trade: 463.46, 24 hour volume: 70747.68743697, 24 hour low: 436.36, 24 hour high: 578.5, 24 hour vwap: 522.632639086
antephialtic: heh. someone should make an MPEX style exchange for usd/btc, all security based on pgp keys
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11150005 = 0.223 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.47206 = 2.3603 BTC [-] {3}
joecool: davout: you seem surprised
antephialtic: speaking of which, its a bit ridiculous that GPG still doesn't support ECDSA keys
joecool: antephialtic: blame debian
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00434673 = 0.2173 BTC [-] {9}
davout: (the localbitcoins thing)
joecool: mircea_popescu: depends on the curve chosen
mircea_popescu: joecool im suspicious as al lfuck of the entire thing.
davout: antephialtic: you can already have the same feature if you trade x.eur on mpex
antephialtic: wait it does? I'm running osx with gpg from homebrew and it doesn't have ecdsa as an option
davout: antephialtic: i think it's gpg2 that does
joecool: i'm using 4096-bit RSA for the forseeable future, but ecdsa seems attractive if i can write a javacard implementation to work on my yubikey neo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4607 @ 0.00088296 = 4.0678 BTC [-]
joecool: until then, openpgp smartcard for me
mircea_popescu: joecool how would you identify the classes of curves they have popped ?
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: I agree, DSA/ECDSA is a kludge. Schnorr signatures are much better
benkay: copumpkin: programming languages?
antephialtic: davout: thanks for the tip, going to try to set that up
benkay: i'm not even a computer science person
Namworld: What the hell is going on? I leave for a few hours and the whole Bitcoin world goes to ashes?
benkay: it's not Bitcoin, it's just Gox.
joecool: mircea_popescu: again i don't use them either, the lack of support though isn't from waryness, it's from the number of old gnupg clients in the wild
Namworld: For the sake of speculators dropping out/news/etc, damage is done.
Namworld: It's only gox, the rest will recover
Namworld: But for now everything is on fire, so to speak.
davout: Namworld: global warming hits bitcoin
mircea_popescu: i still dunno why they've never been seriously implemented.
Namworld: Global warming? NEEEEEIIIIIILLLLL
ozbot: Twitter / CharlieShrem: . @Mircea_Popescu We both had ...
Namworld: Sorry, sorry. My cousin keeps quoting that line from DBZ abridged.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I checked out mpex exchange
Namworld: I had money on gox for convenience, I must admit.
mircea_popescu: i didn't write it at all, and tech details haven't really been released.
Namworld: Withdrew it at a 10% cut as soon as issues hit.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I guess you just wrote the beautiful front-end right :)
mircea_popescu: o hey. didja help all the people buying mtgox debt learn a lesson ? lol
lnovy: mircea_popescu: that sun picture send my box whole 1GB into swap :D
mircea_popescu: and then if they don't listen sometimes they live long enough to apologize.
lnovy: mircea_popescu: 4096x4096... but I guess FF is just crap at those...
mircea_popescu: what do you do if you get like, a real monitor one day ?
lnovy: I have 1920x1080 + 1280x1024... but only a 4 gigs of ram...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10975 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: benkay fwiw, i heard copumpkin once used a lambda function to turn a iphone into an ipad
ninjashogun: lnovy - if it's any consolation, they just came out with a 128 GB micro sd card.
benkay: i once heard copumpkin use a closure to turn an Mac][ into a Genera
lnovy: i'd swap to that :)
lnovy: ok, I don't get it :)
lnovy: curring is for fools
ninjashogun: sorry I meant to quote "Spritz – read 500 words per minute without any training"
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun if you just dump the link ozbot will read the page title.
ozbot: Log In - The New York Times
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: breast cancer, prostate cancer
ninjashogun: ozbot should pretend to be the google bot - then it would get the right titles
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder how the fuck does that work man. on my list breast cancer is one where early discovery has the greatest impact. in there with skin cancer.
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun i think it just looks for the <title> element in html
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 626 @ 0.00050099 = 0.3136 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, when you said above that this channel was worth "over $1b" I didn't takei t seriously as if it has like 500 regulars then just a couple of people worth $50M - or a single Internet billionaire who drops in sometimes - would account for that
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, your own net worth is quite up there from your exchange site? (With all its glorious stylesheets)?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 271 @ 0.00086048 = 0.2332 BTC [-] {3}
Bugpowder: argh can't transfer bitcoin on work network, even when VPN'ed to elsewhere
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 85 @ 0.00509997 = 0.4335 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.472 = 0.944 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder incidentally, you know sm is in hot water over it ?
ninjashogun: guys I've received some suggestions to "lurk" and "read logs" here, which I wouldn't really have time to do. It was nice meeting you all though and I may be back as the project progresses. Overall I don't think I will be spending a ton of time building WoT, advisors, etc - as I have real-world references for the moment that I would expect anyone to consutl.
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: what is the source that all winklevosses money was in gox
nubbins`: A Goldman spokesman, after being told that @GSElevator had been unmasked, said in a statement, “We are pleased to report that the official ban on talking in elevators will be lifted effective immediately.”
mircea_popescu: antephialtic source ? what is this source thing you speak of.
mircea_popescu: how about banning fucktards from taking the elevator with you
nubbins`: i think it was a bit tongue in cheek
Vexual: noone talks to me in elevators
ninjashogun: ah no humblebrag. It's certainly nice to meet you guys. later.
nubbins`: i face backwards if i'm the first person to get in
nubbins`: occasionally other people do it too
antephialtic: glad to see dealbook is focusing on hard hitting journalism
mircea_popescu: i got news for you : those people are gay and looking.
Bugpowder: If only Lawsky had rolled out the bit license earlier
mircea_popescu: antephialtic actually a guy focusing on hard hitting journalism was here earlier.
kakobrekla: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yv6ph/some_words_for_my_friends/
Bugpowder: The 0.01% of bitcoin trying to feel the pain of the 99%
mircea_popescu: pretty sure he's in the 100 archons, and pretty sure there's over 100k people with some bitcoin dust somewhere.
davout: i hope my 300 EUR/BTC bid gets to feel the pain too
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00206827 high: 0.0021 low: 0.002 volume: 1100 btc: 2.2751 7 day: average: 0.00211705 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.002 volume: 4209 btc: 8.91064414 30 day: average: 0.00187721 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.00166114 volume: 17120 btc: 32.13776514
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR Bids: ['200 @ 0.00170512', '500 @ 0.00169213', '4200 @ 0.0016245', '100 @ 0.00153846', '1000 @ 0.001']
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['749 @ 0.0025', '251 @ 0.0026', '450 @ 0.002837', '1531 @ 0.0029']
davout: still gotta work on the bot
Vexual: make it do binladens too
Vexual: or g* is five or ten rather than 3.45565
davout: greenspan_fan: there's assbot, ozbot, gribble
davout: mebbe other that i forget/don't know about
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00508637 = 0.1933 BTC [-] {3}
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Serious question time, how will options contracts be exercised at month's end? At bitcoincharts price, or at last quoted (~$650 / BTC)?
davout: bitcoincharts 7d vwap iirc
mircea_popescu: davout was 24h vwap, except arguably bitcoincharts is broken etc.
Bugpowder: Going to have a big effect on S.MPOE results. Would like to know before.
davout: i was thinking about when you said using implied spot for futures was a bad idea
Bugpowder: bitcoincharts may fix itself shortly though
davout: we were discussing the basket, and how mtgox was kinda ruining it
davout: and that it would theoretically possible to use the future's implied spot to get the collateralization requirement
greenspan_fan: "If you’re sad about your bitcoins losing all their value, maybe you should have put out more lands so you could bring them out earlier." -- @deliciousbees
davout: not even the implied spot i guess, the actual spot
mircea_popescu: davout i recall you proposing that and me pointing out it cant happen because of backfeed.
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @niubi You only think that ...
davout: nah, i said BC's vwap, which you understood as x.eur's vwap
davout: i didn't even think about using x.eur's
davout: wouldn't it make sense if the market was larger?
davout: anyway, just wondering
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't make sense no matter how large the market is, because you arguably can still control it.
davout: at least on the x.eur side that's something that you could quantify
mircea_popescu: maybe if you were mtgox cca 2011 and had 9x% of the market you could bring the arugment that it's nonsense to empower errors by going outside
mircea_popescu: basically the french strike me as the sort of people who'd be in favour of a government accuplation scheme.
mircea_popescu: you submit your genital pictures, you get matched by le departement with some guy,
mircea_popescu: functionaries come and insert his thing in your thing, etc
cerelenius: mircea: care to comment on the price thnx
davout: lol, don't see me as french, i'm half dutch, half nigerian
davout: cerelenius: reddit seems to be doing a good job with that :-)
mod6: yoh dawg, we heard you like things in your thing
cerelenius: shrem made a total fool of himself again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.472 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you know pick something and stick to it, koin3d, whatever.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 542 @ 0.00506068 = 2.7429 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 134 @ 0.00520597 = 0.6976 BTC [+] {4}
cerelenius: is the 700k stolen figure true? how does that even make sense
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
Duffer1: i'd say it's likely true, the only question is the identity of the thieves
cerelenius: well yea but they were honoring btc withdrawals
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 154 @ 0.00526065 = 0.8101 BTC [+] {5}
cerelenius: thieves my ass karpeles is a fucking jew himself
toffoo: any guesses here on "collateral damage" of gox collapse? who will be the 3rd-party businesses/services who will now collapse because they had coins/funds tied up at gox?
Duffer1: that's what i'm saying cere
cerelenius: how would he not notice that type of leakage for so long
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00525796 = 0.3943 BTC [-] {3}
Bugpowder: counterparty exposure could be bad
cerelenius: everyone with 2 IQ points left gox last year
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Did you keep any of MPEX account funds on Mt GOx?
toffoo: it's going to bite at least somebody big out there
mircea_popescu: toffoo most of the people clueless enough to have been exposed will probably be rescued by their investors now, a la second market.
mircea_popescu: it's possible this blow actually takes out the bitcoin foundation scamgroup,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96150 @ 0.0008861 = 85.1985 BTC [+] {6}
cerelenius: mircea_popescu they held coins at gox?
mircea_popescu: obviously i'll be trying to lock any doors for mr v that i can. race against time.
cerelenius: the irony here is the exchange where nobody knows the owner ends up lasting the longest(btce)
cerelenius: bitstamp is a pita to withdraw from 5k+ they turn it into a huge Q&A session
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 92 @ 0.00539949 = 0.4968 BTC [+] {2}
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: why do you think the foundation gets taken down?
davout: btc-e and gox were are oldest, followed by BC
davout: then came the britcoin/intersango crowd
cerelenius: btce is russian run they are more clever
greenspan_fan: It would be interesting to know how many of the dev team had money on gox
mircea_popescu: yes, it is often the case entire groups of millions of people are more clever.
cerelenius: karpeles fat jew no wonder shrem vouched for him
davout: cerelenius: is there something wrong with being jewish?
greenspan_fan: if those people are toast, development might slow down
cerelenius: davout: jews have a tendency for causing chaos, it goes back to choosing barabas in the new testament..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.47142857 = 3.3 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 245 @ 0.00525243 = 1.2868 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.11064975 = 3.3195 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan considering what counts for development these days that should increase the btc price.
cerelenius: davout: not going to get into that with you
davout: cerelenius you're not getting to
davout: into anything anyway, don't even know who the fuck you are
cerelenius: well ill give credit to mircea for calling it before anyone else
greenspan_fan: I think he's just trying to be cool, because racism is controversial
ozbot: As a white male, thank you for making me feel awkward ESPN.. - Imgur
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan racism is controversial, but re niggers not re jews.
mod6: speaking of dev, i thought the most recent list of defects was pretty spot on. account naming issues, et. al.
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: can you comment on the foundation collapsing?
greenspan_fan: jesus, are you writing an article for your local freeman-on-the-land tabloid?
mircea_popescu: jurov what i don't understand is... why are all those black guys dressed like if they were white ?
mod6: it was nice addendum to the first list you made tho. but yeah.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0051 = 0.51 BTC [-] {3}
davout: mircea_popescu: no, because specification is hard, also leads to alternate implementations, which leads to bugs
mircea_popescu: white/blue shirts with lines, and the dots on white on the guy on left ? it's fucking outrageously unflattering.
B007: mircea_popescu: america makes them think they are
mircea_popescu: davout o yes i see, alternative implementations leads to bugs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 557 @ 0.00539949 = 3.0075 BTC [+] {7}
davout: no, he works for guggle
davout: mircea_popescu: oh and "bitcoin relies on bugs in openssl"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.00539948 = 0.3456 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: kakobrekla, how much do i owe on the dukebox?
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: will gavin be affected ?
davout: gavin is probably jewish
davout: mircea_popescu: wrong, the smart jews don't have anything left in gox since 2011
davout: mircea_popescu: are there?
mircea_popescu: o wait i think i must have mixed up my stereotype cards
cerelenius: satoshi was probably jewish, from the economic theory around btc at least
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 202 @ 0.00520098 = 1.0506 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00088221 = 14.777 BTC [-]
B007: where is the business?
cerelenius: bitcoin is 100% jewish monetary theory, hoard coins and watch them swell in value while adding zero value
jurov: kakobrekla, dwanna some help with bashing?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.11996649 = 2.0394 BTC [+] {5}
davout: cerelenius: actually bitcoin is jewish in the sense that you're not invited
cerelenius: well economics is a pseudo physics, adam smith essentially seperated it from moral philosophy
Vexual: he does have a good sense of humour
B007: have you guys read Atlas Shrugged?
greenspan_fan: jesus. of course. it makes my top 20 most tedious list.
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, you got results from your analysis yet ?
antephialtic: if you're going to read a rand book, read anthem, its much shorter and gets all her ideas across without 1200 pages of terrible dialogue
Bugpowder: Also I'm too tired to figure out how to recurse this nicely.
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: modern economics is all about having something swell in value(deflation) via usury. bitcoin is no exception pal
antephialtic: if you really must read a long one, read the fountainhead, its a lot better than atlas shrugged.
greenspan_fan: cerelenius usury is what deadbeats call it when they can't meet the interest payments (because they're deadbeats), let alone the principal
mod6: fountainhead was ok. i think 'we the living' was better if you must.
greenspan_fan: then don't invest in bitcoin. You'll get better returns with your trailer park meth lab.
mircea_popescu: <greenspan_fan> all monetary is jewish monetary theory << actually it's gypstalian
cerelenius: lol bitcoin is not an investment pal, its a speculation. bitcoins are sterile
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: you talking about florence
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.47010074 = 18.804 BTC [-] {6}
cerelenius: when you "buy" a bitcoin its zero sum, someone else now has what you exchanged for it
cerelenius: you arent adding capital to any project
davout: mircea_popescu: you forgot to mention the derp hour apparently
cerelenius: investing is when you combine capital with labor, ideas etc to create new value
Vexual: floating a theory is free dickhead
cerelenius: bitcoin economy you will always have everyone impoverished except about 0.001% of holders
cerelenius: the same thing under 100% gold standard
mircea_popescu: cerelenius that's fine, brains distribute about the same way.
mircea_popescu: let the idiots be poor, best thing for them and everyone else.
cerelenius: it ends up backfiring on the rich though over the long term
cerelenius: thats what occured in florence as well, you had the biggest prosperity ever yet they ended up imploding since the commoner couldnt afford to run a family
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.47 = 0.94 BTC [-]
Vexual: u wanna renaissance? do it
cerelenius: renaissance was a bread and circus to cover the economic looting of that time
cerelenius: in bitcoin large holders have to do nothing, becuase as the armies of fanatics spread the gospel and do all the work, the largest holders get all the purchasing power transfered to them
Vexual: yeah people did good shit, and other people went. whoa here have some money
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: you are clueless. renaissance was the birth of capitalism and large scale usury in the west, it ended up destroying all the participating city states
greenspan_fan: in the midst of dynastic struggle, wars, and massive religious upheaval
cerelenius: venice went from richest region in the world to flat broke
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.00539949 = 0.1512 BTC [+] {2}
cerelenius: everyone was engaged in it essentially
greenspan_fan: and yet, I am not convinced that charging interest is bad. If you want me to loan you something, then you should compensate for my not having it while you use it.
cerelenius: the problem with usury is your economy never grows fast enough to keep up with the debt + interest
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: well yea there is legit compensation and then there is usury.
cerelenius: in bitcoin you will never be able to have a functioning credit market
cerelenius: you could run a bills of exchange system if they ever figure out how to make it decentralized
Apocalyptic: <cerelenius> in bitcoin you will never be able to have a functioning credit market // as said above, it's not that bad
Apocalyptic: businesses will find finances it they are worthy of it
cerelenius: you need a self liquidating credit system
cerelenius: without credit impossible to allocate any capital
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 210 @ 0.00534999 = 1.1235 BTC [-] {3}
cerelenius: apocalyptic: im not mistaken, most people have zero idea what money is and who can issue it.
cerelenius: bitcoins grand accomplishment is the blockchain
Apocalyptic: how does that contradict the fact you are ?
cerelenius: apocalyptic: bitcoin as a currency resembles a sophisticated wealth transfer scheme, those who have more of it benefit from the work of everyone else
cerelenius: an early adopter or large coin holder just has to sit and do nothing, as everyone else "adds to the ecosystem" their coins swell in value with next to no risk, and they didnt even have to hire labor lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00522283 = 3.1337 BTC [-] {4}
greenspan_fan: if bitcoin or its like ends up becoming the main currency, or at least a sufficiently important one
mjr_: well...that all depends, you are describing the "free rider" problem
cerelenius: mjr_: all deflationary systems work like that
mjr_: some people get to (shocking) drive on roads they never paid for
greenspan_fan: so the alternative is fiat with the jews or btc with the cyber-jews
mjr_: nah, think about it this way
cerelenius: mjr_: money can be anything that extinguishes debt. and since only producers can pay off debt, they are the only ones who can issue money
mjr_: since you can have assets without debt
cerelenius: bitcoin can only work with a functioning bills of exchange market
mjr_: and you can trade those assets for others
mjr_: without any debt being involved
greenspan_fan: your line of reasoning is based off of axioms that other people don't agree with
cerelenius: say im a farmer and i need capital to grow my crop
mjr_: lets pretend we were little kids
mjr_: and i had a pb and j
cerelenius: if you lend me btc at interest, the crop price will go down
mjr_: and you had a cheese sandwich
mjr_: we can trade with no debts
mjr_: that is the basis of money
mjr_: what if we had an "abstract base sandwich", no it is not
ozbot: M.I.A. - "Bad Girls" (Official Video) - YouTube
davout: cerelenius: you're working on the assumption that money is debt, come back next year
mjr_: we can agree to disagree
davout: cerelenius: money is no such thing
mjr_: there is a difference
davout: cerelenius: well, enjoy your contracts, i'll enjoy my money
mjr_: you are mixing up "backed by" with "tradeable for"
cerelenius: tokens havent been used since tribal days
mjr_: in the first case, you have an entity willing to always exchange at a fixed ratio
davout: cerelenius: bitcoin is a commodity, money, not a contract
cerelenius: every single dollar issued must be backed by collateral
greenspan_fan: let's pretend we're talking about something that doesn't involve contracts
mjr_: what does someone owe me?
mjr_: where can i redeem this debt instrument?
cerelenius: mjr: those dollars are fed reserve liabilities backed by fed reserve assets
cerelenius: mjr: you cant redeem it, its like a self liquidating tbill
mjr_: the fed has others dollars
mjr_: oh, so it represents a debt that won't be paid to me
mjr_: it doesn't work that way
cerelenius: hence why it requires perpetual debt creation
cerelenius: mjr: of course it does pull up the fed balance sheet
mjr_: no...you really don't understand...
cerelenius: every single paper USD in existence is backed by assets the fed holds
mjr_: a debt means that i am OWED something
mjr_: in other words i can REDEEM it
cerelenius: all electronic dollars are created by commercial banks
mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar
Vexual: heres a lesson in semantics
ozbot: Busta Rhymes - Arab Money - YouTube
mjr_: what is their collateral?
mjr_: that is like saying "a mortgage is backed by a house, but you cannot ever take the house'
mjr_: then it isn't backed by the house...
mjr_: which are denominated in...
cerelenius: commercial bank collateral is anything lent against
mjr_: so i have a debt that means you have to pay me other dollars
cerelenius: mjr: yea i agree its not redeemable, its like a 0day tbill
mjr_: then its not a debt
cerelenius: mjr: thats the system they created since they got off gold redeemability
mjr_: first off, that is my point, "notes" represent assets on account
cerelenius: its impossible to repay debts under the current system because the dollar itself comes into existence through borrowing
mjr_: whatever we have done in the last 40 years doesn't fundamentally change the meaning of the word money
davout: cerelenius: by definition fiat money is a token that is assigned value because of a law, not because it represents a claim to anything
mjr_: nice, i'm glad you read "debt: the first 5000 years" but that is not actually the case
cerelenius: fiat money and credit money are 2 different things
davout: cerelenius: so what's your point exactly?
mjr_: if you cannot trade it in for a fixed amount of something else...there is no difference to you
cerelenius: dabout: my point is bitcoin cannot function on a large scale without a bills of exchange system
davout: cerelenius: you mean paper bitcoins?
mjr_: which we use to exchange value
cerelenius: mjr: a token is not a liability of someone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1279 @ 0.00051978 = 0.6648 BTC [+] {5}
mjr_: and a dollar is not a liability of anyone
mjr_: unless you are using that word in a completely differnt way than i think
mjr_: in which case i would like to borrow as much as i can from you
mjr_: liability is something which is owed
davout: by liability he means garden chair, oh wait it makes sense now
mjr_: the fed owes us nothing
mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar for anything
mjr_: it cannot be a debt
mjr_: since the fundamental core concept of a debt is that it can be "redeemed"
mjr_: that is what you would call "accounting"
mjr_: davout: exactly "assets"
cerelenius: thats why there is always a BID for dollars
cerelenius: someone constantly needs them to repay a debt
mjr_: yes i know all this, and it doesn't change the fundamental everyday reality
mjr_: not if you don't owe anything
mjr_: what if no one owed anybody anything?
cerelenius: paper dollars are liability of the fed
mjr_: i am trying to talk about the BASIC definitions
davout: mjr_: leave britney alone man
mjr_: since you don't seemm to understand
cerelenius: if there was no debt there would be no dollars in this system
davout: mjr_: it all makes sense in his system because the juice run the fed or w/e
mjr_: are you saying it is physically impossible to print a dollar bill without the fed?
MisterE: why is this happenening, CEP resigning from BTC.org?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00088225 = 15.4835 BTC [+]
cerelenius: mjr: every single dollar printed MUST be backed by an asset.
mjr_: the treasury actually creates the dollars, at least m0
mjr_: whatever you say bud
Vexual: yeah and gox has coins, tell us something good
cerelenius: the treasury runs the printing press at the behest of the fed
mjr_: fully backed of course
MisterE: what planet do you come from?
MisterE: they print $ by adding zeros to a number on a computer
mjr_: this is why you are silly
davout: #bitcoin-derp apparently
mjr_: to say that the fed has "assets" backing their dollars
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00520959 = 0.5157 BTC [-] {2}
MisterE: yea it's called a stack of IOUs davout
mjr_: you are mixing up accounting terminology with real life
mjr_: a debt is a "receivable" which is an asset
MisterE: and tell us why they no longer publish M3?
mjr_: or rather...i should say that in our accounting system, a receivable is listed as an asset
mjr_: in the human made scheme that conforms to GAAP
cerelenius: US federal reserve notes are liabilities
mjr_: i put in a book, " cerelenius owes me $5"
mjr_: that entry in the book is an asset
Vexual: months or drug abuse before personality disorder appeared?
mjr_: there is no rule anywhere that says it does
mjr_: and are not made by the fed
cerelenius: all US FRN are fed reserve liabilities
mjr_: they don't issue them
mjr_: what "debt" backs those?
mjr_: i think that you are missing the forest for the trees
cerelenius: everytime new FRNs are to be printed, there has to be a posted asset
mjr_: sure its fun to talk about retarded shit like this
mjr_: but in the real world, in your real life
MisterE: dudes we're debt backing debt insured by debt
mjr_: you don't redeem them
Apocalyptic: <MisterE> dudes we're debt backing debt insured by debt // genius...
mjr_: i don't care what they write on paper
mjr_: oh, the fed says that they should print more money
cerelenius: every single dollar in existence must be lent into existence
mjr_: well its true the fed said it
MisterE: now tell me where the bottom is :)
mjr_: that is def not true
cerelenius: the fed doesnt print money they lend it
mjr_: but they don't create it
cerelenius: the private sector stopped borrowing in 2007
MisterE: so I can get all the BTC for myself!
cerelenius: the fed flooded the system with credit but there were no takers for it, hence the huge reserve balances banks now hold
MisterE: because you have a lot already Apocalyptic ?
cerelenius: the only taker has been the government
cerelenius: private sector is borrowing for stuff like student loans etc
MisterE: poor cerelenius and the rest of the sheep who still have faitin in the financial house of cards
cerelenius: hyperinflation under such a system is next to impossible, you can have hyperdeflation instead
cerelenius: mistere: before the USD collapses youll have hyperdeflation
MisterE: cerelenius: either way it won't bother me
MisterE: no thats shit people actually need
cerelenius: under credit collapse ie deflation, demand collapses
MisterE: and if it crashes that hard we're all fucked so it's AK-47 time
cerelenius: 2008 was a shot across the bow, a warning of the future
cerelenius: and it was not an inflationary collapse
MisterE: I agree 2008 was a warning
MisterE: and we're trying to spend our way out of it
mjr_: the treasury doesn't just give the money to the fed
mjr_: the fed pays for it
mjr_: which...how can they pay for something which they created?
cerelenius: the fed doesnt order much federal reserve notes
cerelenius: theres very little federal reserve notes
mjr_: you said "every dollar is a debt, it can only be created through debt"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.06089999 = 0.609 BTC [+]
mjr_: you said dollars couldn't exist without debt
mjr_: i just proved you wrong
mjr_: not creates by lending
MisterE: where you think the money for QE is coming from?
cerelenius: when the federal reserve orders dollars in physical format
MisterE: nobody uses physical at that level
mjr_: they pay all costs to manufacture or mint
MisterE: the discount window is all 0s and 1s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.061 = 0.122 BTC [+]
mjr_: but there are dollars not created via debt
cerelenius: every single dollar in existence is backed by debt
cerelenius: mjr the physical dollars are backed by fed assets(debt)
cerelenius: they only buy printed dollars when a bank rqurests them
cerelenius: and they have to post an asset to back it
cerelenius: like if you want 100bil of printed dollars you have to post 100bil of tier 1 capital assets to the fed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00088221 = 20.1585 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00539863 = 0.5399 BTC [+] {4}
MisterE: are you saying the sum total of assets denominated in USD is less than the sum total of USD denominated debt?
mjr_: so you are saying that we have a fully backed currency
cerelenius: mjr i already told you look at the fed balance sheet its painfully obvious
mjr_: go look at gox's balance sheet
mjr_: it is a piece of paper made by people
mjr_: not like handed down by moses
mjr_: you do know that right
cerelenius: misterE: total debt+ interest always exceeds available dollars
mjr_: this is all obvious
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.0053995 = 0.459 BTC [+]
cerelenius: new dollars must constantly be created to pay off old debts
mjr_: i told you that if i gave you $5, your debt is my asset
Vexual: this is like nubbins music
cerelenius: because we dont have money in the traditional sense
mjr_: and obviously not true
mjr_: here is the most trivial example
mjr_: there is 100 dollars total
MisterE: sorry but he's starting to make sense
ozbot: All Sectors; Credit Market Instruments; Liability, Level (TCMDO) - FRED - St. Louis Fed
mjr_: you work for 100 a hour
mjr_: after one hour your debt is paid
MisterE: we're not even talking about personal liabilities yet
mjr_: sorry just not true
MisterE: most people are mortgaged to 10x their 10 year net worth
mjr_: if you had to pay the debt NOW then it would be impossible without creating more
cerelenius: look at that 08 dip and it nearly blew out the entire system
mjr_: but debts have the interesting factor of time
Vexual: cerelenius, you're a two toned fuckstick
mjr_: meaining velocity of money
mjr_: can handle interest
cerelenius: MisterE: i hope im making sense to you because mjr is on a different planet.
mjr_: in other words, 100 can circulate to pay 100,000 worth of needs
MisterE: you both are on differerent planets lol
mjr_: i don't even understand your point
mjr_: sure, money is created via debt
MisterE: I'm just running back and forth in The Enterprise
cerelenius: mjr go back to buttonwood meetings with your btc lol
mjr_: why does that matter at all
mjr_: ok...what was your point again?
cerelenius: the end game is hyper deflation on a scale not scene in 500 years
mjr_: but i meant in our lives
MisterE: no matter how it ends we all lose
mjr_: you can create money using debt and NOT hyperinflate
mjr_: or you can hyperinflate
MisterE: the soviet union was far better prepared for a crash than the US is
mjr_: the creation method is irrelevant
cerelenius: when credit is first created its inflationary for the rest of its life its deflationary
MisterE: everything was already state owned
mjr_: i seriously don't see why you are talking about this, so maybe i missed your main point?
mjr_: dollars are USED as tokens
MisterE: mjr_: you don't think the current syetm is sustainable do you?
mjr_: in our USE of them they have nothing to do with debt
mjr_: ok, i buy a sandwhich
cerelenius: someone is constantly in need of dollars to pay debt
mjr_: the price is set on the open market
mjr_: and that is where your point gets stupid
cerelenius: thats how credit currencies have a bid
cerelenius: its not becuase the government says so lol.
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
cerelenius: its becuase of debt. theres always a shortage of dollars
mjr_: again, irrelelevant point
cerelenius: debt is denominated in dollars so you need them
mjr_: there is no shortage of dollars
mjr_: if you owe someone sure
MisterE: BTC is different because the community decides on value without government influence
mjr_: if you were to sell your car
Vexual: youre broke, you can't afford to make a graph
mjr_: how many dollars do you HAVE to accept
cerelenius: mjr: all dollars exist via debt. do you understand this concept
mjr_: none, you can pick whatever number you want
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 371 @ 0.00539919 = 2.0031 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.47 = 1.88 BTC [-] {3}
mjr_: for me selling my car
cerelenius: total debt + interest surpasses all available dollars at a given time
cerelenius: meaning there is a shortage of dollars
mjr_: as long as i have some, who cares
MisterE: eventually tha check comes due
mjr_: they have "value" because someone is willing to take them
MisterE: you can blow up bubbles in the mean time
mjr_: look...lets say i owe 50 dollars
cerelenius: because everything in nature has a beginning and an end
Vexual: i al comes out in the wash
mjr_: and you "forgive" that debt if i do you a favotr
MisterE: in the end we'll knock 4 or 6 zeroes off of the end and it will be business as usual :p
mjr_: do you not live in real life
cerelenius: a bank can take loses on max 1-2% of total debt
mjr_: do you not use your eyes?
cerelenius: in the united states about 2.5% of mortgage holders defaulted
mjr_: so they CAN forgive it
cerelenius: and that caused the system to be insolvent
Vexual: 4 mental patients walk into a bar
mjr_: this is all irrelevant
MisterE: banks claim writeoffs for written down debt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3550 @ 0.00088225 = 3.132 BTC [+]
cerelenius: misterE; they can only write down a tiny % of it before they are insolvent.
mjr_: there are accounting rules for doing exactly that
mjr_: allowance for bad accounts
mjr_: they CAN and DO forgive debts
mjr_: which is what i said
MisterE: since reserve requirements are a pittance
mjr_: you said they CAN'T and DON'T
mjr_: if you were selling your car...how would this matter to you?
cerelenius: "reserve" means a tier 1 asset which is a US government bond
mjr_: which is payable in...
cerelenius: misterE lol no there isnt, the fed hasnt set reserve requirements since the 80's
mjr_: so it is a big circle jerk
mjr_: i really really don't care
cerelenius: misterE; LOL not a single bank in the US or europe has 10% currency reserves
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.11996645 BTC [-]
mjr_: i hate people who are not pragmatic
MisterE: I think we have seen the bottom today boys
mjr_: you haven't answered how empiracally this would be any different when trying to sell a car
Vexual: cerelenius, where can i sinect in your kak?
mjr_: i want either A) a certain amount of bitocoin, or B) a certain number of dollars
cerelenius: the smartest guy in here is the one with the largest stage that inflates in value when all the dumbasses do work
Vexual: yes, hes very handsome, but thats not all
mjr_: you have fun with your theories
mjr_: i'll keep living in the real world
cerelenius: you think running around buttonwood trees with your iphone and 0.001btc matters
mjr_: glad i don't have to share it with you
mjr_: well...unlike gox we have never been hacked
mjr_: and i dont even know who you are
mjr_: but i guess you know who i am
mjr_: i've never seen you around here before
Vexual: ill take your moms xanax
mjr_: and you obviously aren't smart enough to be a part of the convo
mjr_: like i said you know who i am
cerelenius: what convo lol everyone in here is clueless except 1-2 guys
mjr_: satoshi square, blah blah blah
cerelenius: mjr: i come in here once in awhile to break mirceas balls
mjr_: you are mixing up primatry market with secondary market
mjr_: i could give two shits about how tokens are created
mjr_: its what you do after that that matters
mjr_: you treat it like a "debt" and you will never be repayed
mjr_: i treat it like a token
MisterE: not when the creator given them with a promise to pay back
mjr_: and it works like a token
cerelenius: gold was what paid debts off in the past
mjr_: i could care less what the creator said or wants to do
mjr_: if i want a sandwich, i ask how many dollars
MisterE: it's over only a matter of time
cerelenius: they replace gold with the US government bond
mjr_: and give them that many if it is important
KRS-One: cerelenius: looks like it didnt break resistance, maybe we will indeed see a new low now
cerelenius: KRS-One: i dont think we take out the late december lows
mjr_: again, completely irrelevant
MisterE: soon as oil is denominated in another currency the jug will be up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.462995 = 3.704 BTC [-] {2}
cerelenius: misterE: as bad as the USD is it will be the last currency to collapse
mjr_: but that is where i think you get ridiculous
mjr_: like, if no more dollars are used
cerelenius: KRS-One: despite all this shitty news and bad atmosphere we havent even exceeded late december lows
mjr_: we will never be able to obtain things
mjr_: like, guess commerce is done?
mjr_: we just find other tokens
KRS-One: cerelenius so i'm thinking lower
mjr_: and they work pretty much the same
cerelenius: well yea it freezes up for a short term.
jurov: alternatively, we can just go into prolonged slump, that will end when we diversify away from oil
mjr_: my point is it's irrelevant
mjr_: and will continue to do
MisterE: jurov: I wish, what I really wish is we would pay the real cost for the oil
cerelenius: mjr: these types of collapses have been occuring every since capitalism was introduced, just the scale of them has been getting progressively wrose
mjr_: treat it as debt if you like
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.11064728 = 0.6639 BTC [-] {2}
mjr_: i really don't care
cerelenius: you will when your bank account is not accessible
cerelenius: im sure your bitcoins will save you then
MisterE: yea the size of the bubbles are bigger and bigger
mjr_: if you hold dollars i guess
MisterE: now we're inflating countries like Ireland and Greece
cerelenius: paper dollars will be the only thing that have value under that scenario
mjr_: cool...what do we use at satoshi square again?
MisterE: maybe they will keep you warm if you stuff them inside your clothes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.0053975 = 0.5236 BTC [-] {3}
mjr_: which don't rely on shit from anyone
mjr_: which is why i use them
cerelenius: well bitcoin is completely different then the dollar
mjr_: cuz its maybe too fucking obvious
mjr_: oh, so i can't buy stuff with it
mjr_: i can't give it to people
mjr_: i can't be paid for my time
cerelenius: the problem with bitcoin is saleability
mjr_: i have empiraccally proven that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 116 @ 0.00534929 = 0.6205 BTC [-] {4}
mjr_: illiquid != can't be sold
mjr_: so maybe you just don't get these fundamental points
cerelenius: well i like using saleability, the more btc you throw at the market what happens?
mjr_: when i sell a lot of dollars for euros?
ozbot: Pixies - Debaser (Official Video) - YouTube
mjr_: fixed exchange rate
mjr_: obviously no one trades forex
mjr_: and forex risk doesn't exist
mjr_: sorry, you are right
cerelenius: you need to sell hundreds of billions to move it 0.5%
mjr_: so you DO move the price
mjr_: i like how you agree with me every time
cerelenius: bitcoin you move the price with a tiny lot
cerelenius: and the saleability decreases as you keep moving
mjr_: difference of scale not kind
mjr_: same with anything else
cerelenius: you can get rid of dollars at any time of the day
cerelenius: you can walk down the street and get rid of all of them
mjr_: i can get rid of bitcoin at any time of day
mjr_: and you can do it with bitcoin
mjr_: so if you hold euros in the us
mjr_: are they "saleablae"
cerelenius: mjr you can walk down the street and sell your dollars for products
mjr_: i can walk down the street and buy products for bitocin
cerelenius: you never have to touch the euro to get rid of dollars
mjr_: so i am missing something i guess
Vexual: 700k and a fresh passport
cerelenius: the price of them collapses if you start selling
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.11052505 = 2.6526 BTC [-] {6}
jurov: cerelenius: you'd have problems with paper dollars of higher denominations, too
mjr_: but sure, there i could go to evr
mjr_: or use bitcoin on foodler
mjr_: same as the dollar yes
Vexual: man who walk sideways through security always going to bang cock
mjr_: anything when you sell enough, goes down in value
jurov: and don't let me start about credit cards
mjr_: since it means demand has gotten smaller
mjr_: yes, just like it would with dollars
mjr_: or anything on earht
mjr_: ok, say everyone in the world does not want dollars for oil
mjr_: they won't accept dollars for oil
mjr_: no change to the dollars value?
mjr_: since debt can be denominated in anything
mjr_: i can have a euro backed devt
mjr_: or a yen backed debt
cerelenius: majority of debt is denominated in dollars
MisterE: when stamp hits 425 I'll buy
mjr_: that is something called "competing currencies" you should look it up
MisterE: oh will you 2 get a room already :p
KRS-One: MisterE: you wont want to do that
mjr_: you are saying "this is the way it HAS to be" and proving that "this is the way it IS"
mjr_: if no one wants dollars
mjr_: the dollar is worthless
mjr_: if no one wants bitcoin, bitcoin is worthless
MisterE: if it breaks 400 it's a rout
mjr_: the value is set by the supply and demand of the item in question
cerelenius: tripple bottom off the late december lows
KRS-One: cerelenius: there is over $11 million loaned out on long positions..they're going to get squeezed out
mjr_: regardless of whether it was issued by a govt, mined on a blockchain, or came out of my ass
MisterE: I dont think traditional SA applies to CC charts
mjr_: is there another site with lending?
MisterE: that'll get you in trouble
KRS-One: yeah i wouldnt touch it though
mjr_: the variance is too high
cerelenius: what happens when your underwater then?
mjr_: trims positions, no?
KRS-One: hmm check i could be wrong
mjr_: i am betting they have some sort of autoliquidation
cerelenius: krs one you cant do 10:1 shorting with btc where are they borrowing them from
mjr_: there is no other way to avoid that scenario
mjr_: i mean, you CAN do whatever you want
Vexual: you have personality disorder
cerelenius: no you cant nobody will lend you 10x btc
mjr_: you seem to use the word can and can't in strange ways
mjr_: that aren't the ways the rest of us use them
mjr_: so, i can go bankrupt, right?
mjr_: which means i can lend coins in whatever size i wanted
mjr_: that is different from CAN'T
mjr_: like i said variance is too high
mjr_: i think that actually is why we disagree
cerelenius: your an idiot, bitcoins main issue is piss poor liquidity and overall tiny market
mjr_: because you keep using the word HAS TO and CAN and CANNOT and IMPOSSIBLE
Vexual: you're begging for 50k
mjr_: to things that i have seen happen
mjr_: it cannot be impossible if i've seen it
mjr_: or else we just throw logic right out
cerelenius: listen pal, every credit instrument in bitcoin will bust out sooner then later
cerelenius: thats what happens under a deflationary system
mjr_: have you heard of this thing called the pink sheets
mjr_: it also has poor liquidity
mjr_: so that means equities will never work
mjr_: because otc markets are illiquid
mjr_: you are saying that because of POOR exchanges
mjr_: bitcoin MUST be illiquid
mjr_: there is no world in which bitcoin is not illiquid
mjr_: but since i have the ability to picture other markets
mjr_: i can picture a market for bitcoin that is not ililquid
mjr_: and that does function efficiently
mjr_: like for example forex
cerelenius: bitcoin is too illiquid to function as anything other then a speculative tool, in terms of money in only functions as such in cybercrime for example because there are NO alternatives.
mjr_: but you just said that you were talking about the way it is now
mjr_: it could be different
mjr_: it has been different
mjr_: it has changed a lot
cerelenius: only thing giving btc liquidity is cybercrime
mjr_: and you seem to think that time doesn't exist
cerelenius: its not nerds meeting up with pennys underneath a tree
mjr_: which tree do they meet up at?
Vexual: ah theres only one fuck this mad
mjr_: you said "cannot function"
cerelenius: they dont accept btc they accept bitpay
mjr_: since I AM PAYING WITH BITCOIN
cerelenius: yes its no different then selling them at an exchange for usd
mjr_: i could give two shits what happens between me paying bitcoin and getting the product i want
mjr_: what did i pay with?
mjr_: i again, don't care
mjr_: i pay with the currency i chose
mjr_: and get the product i wanted
mjr_: you don't understand the diference between today's bitcoin and the inherent properties of bitcoin
Vexual: cerelenius, can you give me a quote on dogs?
mjr_: bitcoin is not limited to illiquidity
mjr_: it is illiquid right now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.0053136 = 0.4517 BTC [+] {4}
mjr_: like for example twitter shares were illiquid
Vexual: yes, ive got some things here and im trying to decide
mjr_: or facebook, and now, they are MORE liquid
mjr_: funny how things change...
mjr_: you are such an idiot...
mjr_: it is JUST as illiquid as it was in 2009
mjr_: you said that its state of liquidity is fixed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 42 @ 0.00539182 = 0.2265 BTC [+] {4}
mjr_: or are you going to change what you said again
cerelenius: its state of liquidity will always be poor
mjr_: so it can become MORE liquid
mjr_: at what point will it cease being able to become more liquid
mjr_: what is its inherent liquidity barrier
mjr_: since there must be one
dignork: cerelenius enough for what?
mjr_: since at some point it cannot become more liquid
mjr_: could bitcoin become MORE liquid tomorrow
mjr_: if it can, then it could keep doing so...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 610 @ 0.00539989 = 3.2939 BTC [+] {3}
mjr_: and that is what you don't get
cerelenius: dignork: enough for it to be used as settlement without having to go through shit like bitpay
mjr_: the issues you bring up have nothing to do with bitcoin
mjr_: but rather immature markets for ANYTHING
cerelenius: nobody outside of cybercrime(gambling,porn,frauds) settles in bitcoin
cerelenius: and those that do do it from necessity
cerelenius: im not talking about your little nerd with 0.01 balance
mjr_: your argument for the dollar was its "necessity"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 24 @ 0.00539989 = 0.1296 BTC [+] {4}
dignork: cerelenius in some countries you can't settle for USD, you have to go through exchange, so what?
mjr_: because we couldn't have debts without it
KRS-One: cerelenius: according to btc.sx faq: For each position opened, btc.sx will execute an open market order at over x10 the value of your deposit.
mjr_: there is this thing called "international trade"
Vexual: get off the couch cerel
mjr_: you do know they don't use dollars everywhere
KRS-One: It is important to remember that losses can also be multiplied however losses will never exceed your deposit.
mjr_: in other words they will autoliquidate you
cerelenius: dignork: im talking about nobody settles for anything other then fiat at the moment in btc, OTHER then those groups i outlined
cerelenius: krs-one: yea so they have some protection in place
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 650 @ 0.0054 = 3.51 BTC [+] {4}
KRS-One: there is also no control over this =/
mjr_: protection? yeah, you can only lose all your money
cerelenius: tigerdirect adopted bitpay not bitcoin lol
mjr_: you are fully "protected"
dignork: cerelenius i'm not a "cybercriminal" and for some transactions I settle for btc, problem?
mjr_: for every obvious real world example
cerelenius: the problem with adopting bitpay or coinbase
chetty: I settle with btc, and I am not a criminal either
cerelenius: is you can never offer clients huge discounts
mjr_: he is wrong about pretty every statement, goes back and says he didn't mean "ALL"
mjr_: we all probably settle using bitcoin
cerelenius: mircea is part of the fraud category lol
dignork: cerelenius nonsense, discounts are based on your sales strategy, btc or not
cerelenius: dignork: merchants are adopting bitpay/coinbase to tap into the btc liquidity and the free publicity they get, nobody is settling in btc outright
mjr_: so it seems that it is possible
mjr_: you see a dog swimming, you think that dogs are aquatic creatures
mjr_: that is the problem
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00548 = 2.74 BTC [+] {4}
mjr_: i will sell my products for the amount of currency i want
mjr_: at no point have you ever shown me an example of how it is different to buy something with a dollar and a bitcoin
mjr_: as far as price setting
cerelenius: who settles in btc on a larger scale? gambling sites, porn, strange "finance" operations etc.
mjr_: we listed multiple people who do settle
mjr_: and they only settle using dollars "out of necessity"
mjr_: and i've seen him do it
mjr_: he paid for our coffees using fiat if i remember correctly
mjr_: but he doesn't want to
mjr_: since the whole point is moving past fiat
cerelenius: mjr you are a child probably 20 years old
mjr_: your googling skills must suck
mjr_: this is simple stuff
mjr_: if i want to sell my car
cerelenius: bitcoin will never work on a large scale
mjr_: you cannot guarantee that
mjr_: like every asset on earth
cerelenius: between 10-50bil dependant on cybercrime
mjr_: it will behave like every asset on earth
mjr_: that is a large scale
mjr_: depends on what you meant
mjr_: since its under 10 now
cerelenius: the world is not running out of crypto
mjr_: you are talking about a 5X increase
mjr_: the world isn't running out of fiat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 185 @ 0.00549555 = 1.0167 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_: just take everything you say, change the word bitcoin to dollar
mjr_: and you come up with the same thing
mjr_: which means it won't have failed?
mjr_: people will still be using iut
cerelenius: it wont fail in the sense of going to zero
mjr_: they will still be settling debts
Vexual: no bitcoiners have jumped off something high
mjr_: you know that by your standards
mjr_: the dollar has failed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00549585 = 0.6045 BTC [+] {3}
mjr_: since the dollar has not been adopted by the vast majority of people on earth
cerelenius: well yes the dollar is a failure its a defaulted on promise to pay gold
mjr_: and it works for now
cerelenius: the dollar is accepted by the vast majority lol
Vexual: things change cere, the world keeps turning
mjr_: it isn't accepted in europe
cerelenius: the chinese yuan is defacto backed by dollars
dignork: cerelenius gosh, gold defaulted on promise to be a currency, your point?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.0054989 = 2.7495 BTC [+]
cerelenius: dignork: the same way bitcoin will because of what i outlined earlier in the chat. a tiny tiny % of holders will be filthy rich while everyone else is filthy poor
cerelenius: both are different sides of the same coin
dignork: cerelenius this will be the case anyhow, nature laws...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
cerelenius: its related to btc because as people WORK hard to build the ecosystem and create purchasing power, it gets siphoned off by the large holders
Vexual: man in the image of god
mjr_: its accepted in the US
mjr_: which is why i think they say US on them
mjr_: the vast majority of people in the world may never touch a dollar
mjr_: or have one in a bank account
mjr_: so they haven't adopted it
mjr_: so if only a few people use bitcoin to transact their business, it'll be the same as the romanian lei
mjr_: which is still a currency
mjr_: that is used by people
mjr_: to buy things, sell things, and to pay off debts
mjr_: there is no fundamental difference so far to bitcoin, you seem to think that gox is part of bitcoin or something
chetty: I am curious, why come here and argue cerelenius, whats in it for you?
mjr_: trolls love to get fed
mjr_: you do realize i could cease accepting dollars tomorrow right?
cerelenius: im pointing out whats painfully obvious for anyone who can deductively reason
mjr_: and if no one wants dollars...
cerelenius: i explained to you what gives dollars a bid
Vexual: you're not trolling, i wrote the book. you have personality disorder
mjr_: or i guess to put it in simple terms "to the extent to which someone wants a currency, based on how much of it there is, that will define its value"
cerelenius: btc will make a handful rich and everyone else will wake up one day realizing they benefited NOTHING from it
mjr_: dollars value: supply and demand
mjr_: bitcoin value: supply and demand
mjr_: i am not seeing the difference
cerelenius: dollar demand is always higher then supply
jurov: cerelenius how did i benefit from dollars?
chetty: well the fed isn't printing btc by the bucket load
mjr_: to the extent i want dollars, i will allow people to pay me in dollars
cerelenius: jurov: im not argueing the fiat system being better
mjr_: you don't understand monetary systems
mjr_: you seem to think they obey some law
dignork: cerelenius create GOOD monetary system that suits you
mjr_: no, i think that the market sets their value
cerelenius: i told you i can throw trillions of dollars around and nothing happens
mjr_: yeah absolutely nothing happening
mjr_: its like i can still buy a hamburger for a nickel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00088238 = 30.0892 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.10350208 = 0.3105 BTC [-] {2}
mjr_: its like the CPI has never moved
cerelenius: mjr: when debts become so large, inflation is impossible
mjr_: that is simply answered
mjr_: lol its always possible
mjr_: you are saying that a dollar cannot become worth lesss
mjr_: so it could still inflate further
cerelenius: any dollar inflation is followed by deflation
mjr_: mjr: when debts become so large, inflation is impossible
mjr_: except then you said "yes it can inflate further
mjr_: which means, perhaps you don't understand what impossible means
mjr_: i think that must be it
mjr_: it means "CANNOT HAPPEN EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"
mjr_: see, its super simple
cerelenius: to produce the paper to print on in time
mjr_: each apple costs 1 dollar
jurov: cerelenius the money was not actually printed
mjr_: if i print a trillion
mjr_: the apples still sit there
dignork: ok, so now we're discussing dollars, why?
jurov: the banks that got it returned it to fed or bought back bonds
mjr_: the value asymptotically approaches 0
mjr_: he apparently thinks that math doesn't apply to dollars or something
jurov: if it got really released into circulatoin, insta hyperinflation
cerelenius: jurov lol it cant get released into circulation
mjr_: like if i print more, but still have the same basket of goods, at a certain point, i can buy more
jurov: so your reasoning is deeply flawed
mjr_: yes, that is exactly it jurov
cerelenius: borrowers were too broke to borrow anymore
mjr_: and if no one wants to borrow
cerelenius: the banks couldnt lend it becuase there was no collateral left
cerelenius: they could only lend against the LAST remaining collateral
mjr_: they can lend without collateral
Vexual: broke borrowers being you celerius
dignork: cerelenius you can (will have to) release it into pension funds
jurov: so there 5 trillions are as good as non existing
Vexual: is anyone lending to you?
cerelenius: jurov: those 5 trillions have to be repaid
mjr_: so your saying that the value of the dollar depends on how many of them their are
cerelenius: but DEFLATIONARy for rest of their life
mjr_: at no point does a currency become SO worthless that it gets value
cerelenius: because they have to be repaid with interest
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00549979 = 0.2255 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_: you seem to think that magically dollars appear to pay back debts
mjr_: but there is this thing called bankruptcy
mjr_: where the money (shocker) NEVER gets paid back
cerelenius: yea it doesnt work on a soveriegn level
mjr_: i have heard of 0 countries being removed from the planet because they went broke
cerelenius: you would have a total implosion of the worldwide banking system
mjr_: make something of value
mjr_: trade it to someone else for something of value
dignork: cerelenius market crashes, happened like 5 times in last 10 years, each time tons of usd where DELETED
mjr_: if you can do those two things
mjr_: all the buillshit that goes on, is irrelevant
cerelenius: dignork: during debt collapse, USDs get deleted and the left over ones swell in value
dignork: nobody repayed them, they just vanished
mjr_: make something of value, and the rest doesn't matter
cerelenius: dignork: yep thats what happened in 08
mjr_: you can hand wave about financial instruments it doesn't change reality
cerelenius: one day people are going to wake up and see their bank accounts reduced by 95%
cerelenius: the only thing that will hold up will be paper USDs
dignork: ok, so they don't have to be repid, right?
mjr_: are you saying that no one will be able to then buy berak?
jurov: cerelenius most people in US have actually negative balances
jurov: so no problem there
MisterE: people are jumping in btc-e trollbox haha
mjr_: that is what you don't get...if i took away 90% of the wealth of the entire world...the system wouldn't have changed at all
cerelenius: mjr one thing i know is youll be poor and stupid forever
mjr_: since wealth and currency are relative
jurov: they can't take bank accounts balances like in eu
mjr_: if you have 10 dollars, and everyone else has 2
jurov: because americans don't have any
mjr_: you are a "tenionaire"
cerelenius: jurov: it depends what class of americans
jurov: it evens out, richer have just bigger mortgages
cerelenius: its difficult to take balances in america because america tends to have stronger rule of law then most of europe
mjr_: average american up to 150k can't come up with 2 grand by month end
mjr_: you seem to think, and correct me if i'm wrong, that money serves a purpose outside of me buying things with it
cerelenius: europe has a stronger history of fascism
jurov: well, they'll take the home instead
cerelenius: mjr: no i dont think that, the system does hence its FLAW
cerelenius: mjr: money is sterile, people think if they put money in a bank vault it will have children
mjr_: i saw a hammer that thought it was a screwdriver
mjr_: i used it to hammer nails
mjr_: those people are stupid
cerelenius: everyone who gained in bitcoin there has to be a equal loser
mjr_: here is the basis of money
mjr_: there is a fixed amount of "stuff" in the world
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.00549979 = 0.9955 BTC [-]
cerelenius: 1% of bitcoins cannot be spent without the market going to zero
mjr_: i may want some of it
mjr_: if i want some of the stuff, i trade some of the stuff i have
mjr_: i could buy 210,000 worth of doge coin
cerelenius: most peoples bitcoin wealth is unspendable paper gain
jurov: cerelenius, just go to mircea and buy some s.mpoe for 210k bitcoins
jurov: no problem there :)
mjr_: which would push the price up to wher ebitcoin is
mjr_: if someone is wililng to accept it
mjr_: you have x tokens, and y "things"
mjr_: there is a ratio of x to y
cerelenius: whats with the elementary school examples
mjr_: you cannot understand anything more advanced yet
mjr_: so stick to the basicsa
dignork: cerelenius so if i pay wages in BTC it will implode? elaborate
cerelenius: you dont understand that bitcoin is zero sum
mjr_: its not supposed to
cerelenius: it can always only make a tiny tiny % rich
mjr_: its supposed to represent a certain portion of actual things in the real world which i may want
mjr_: its like the rules of logic don't apply to you
dignork: cerelenius it's cash, why should it produce value?
mjr_: i have no clue if he understand that
cerelenius: dignork: it isnt cash. its a virtial commodity
mjr_: 3 apples, 3 bitcoins
mjr_: each apple = 1 bitcoins
cerelenius: dignork: cash has a tight bid/ask spread bitcoin has a wide one
mjr_: that is the situoation right now
mjr_: that is like saying
mjr_: oh that is a guy with one arm, not human
mjr_: in other words, idiotic
dignork: cerelenius got to forex and lo, currencies with low volumes have large spreads
mjr_: the relative demand will basically set the bid ask spread (since bitcoins supply grows at a fixed rate)
mjr_: if half the world chose to use bitcoin
cerelenius: i already explained bitcoin has 2 sources of demand 1) speculative and 2) settlement, break down what settlement means and you get mostly black market activities and maybe 5% of little bits and pieces
mjr_: the bid ask spread would be tighter than the dollar
cerelenius: everytime a merchant adopts bitpay or coinbase
mjr_: BITPAY says they want bitcoin
mjr_: they will ACCEPT bitcoin
cerelenius: whats important is adoption by people who actually settle in btc
mjr_: meaning they are trading bitcoin for soething
cerelenius: bitpay doesnt accept shit they just broker a trade
mjr_: how is that important, you said it is impossible for it to work
mjr_: if i wanted an apple
dignork: cerelenius if btc is good only for storage, it'd be worthless
mjr_: almost like if you paid pesos for it?
mjr_: how could that system possibly work?
dignork: any currency is worthless as a value storage
cerelenius: certain things on the internet have to use bitcoin becuase of necessity
mjr_: which is why bank balances are worht 0
cerelenius: like cybercrime and those gambling sites
mjr_: and certain people have to use dollars out of necessity
mjr_: you are not describing anything different between bitcoin and dollars
cerelenius: you really think bitcoins value is from guys like mjr buying $20 in a forest?
dignork: cerelenius i used btc to move small amount of cash between two coutries
cerelenius: its from people who settle in it, in SIZE
chetty: If all the dollars in the world went poof tomorrow there would still be as many apples :)
mjr_: if there are 500 million of them buying 20
dignork: just because tx fees on wire transfer where much higher
cerelenius: thats not enough for a 10bil market cap
mjr_: there is STILL things around me
mjr_: things i may want to buy
mjr_: if there was one bitcoin
mjr_: it would be irrelevant to the number of things
dignork: cerelenius lol, check evaluation for western union and such
mjr_: i can "map" the number of bitcoins onto any number of things
cerelenius: you bought btc and sold it you didnt settle in it
cerelenius: thats not whose providing a bid for btc lol
cerelenius: and i broke down who is settling in btc
mjr_: i don't care what they do after i paid for the product i purcahsed
mjr_: the restaurant owner is just going to use his dollars to pay his accountant
dignork: cerelenius, you with your settlement, i got btc and payed it for a coffe
cerelenius: bitcoin did not pay for your purchase go ask tigerdirect for a bitcoin refund
dignork: i didn't settlem coffe shop did
mjr_: which could be handled by bitpay in reverse
mjr_: they are pegging the value to the dollar
cerelenius: if the exchange rate changed you are taking a loss
mjr_: i think you are mixing up a numeraire with something else
mjr_: have you heard of fx risk?
dignork: cerelenius you are in US, paying to chinese company for some product
dignork: in the middle there is a conversion to their curremcy
cerelenius: dignork: i agree the payment network(blockchain) is excellent
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.0054998 = 0.385 BTC [+]
dignork: now you want in refund, but exch rates changed
cerelenius: dignork: the currency doesnt change 50% in a day
dignork: depends on currency and timing
cerelenius: bitpay has zero exposure to bitcoin risk
mjr_: if i bought servers from china
mjr_: and the exchange rate changed i could "take a loss"
mjr_: if you calculate your gains and losses in bitcoin
mjr_: if you calculate losses in dollars
BingoBoingo: Argentina might have something to say about exchange rates moving...
mjr_: if you dno't want fx risk to hurt you
mjr_: you hedge so you end up with what you wanted
cerelenius: theres nobody in the world dumb enough to sell insurance against it
mjr_: which is why futures markets are a thing
mjr_: like when you buy a tv on sale
mjr_: and then they wn't give you full price whenyou refund it?
mjr_: tell me how i can't
dignork: cerelenius hence the derivative market, to hedge this
mjr_: you are obviously an idiot...no one hedges using insurance
cerelenius: mircea? with extremely overpriced options?
mjr_: they give you an option
dignork: cerelenius somebody wrote this options, and somebody bought it
mjr_: insurance automatically PAYS if an event happens
mjr_: you miss the key word
mjr_: i have the right BUT NOT THE OBLIGATION
dignork: so you might say stock options are insurances, fine
mjr_: and barely understand how our current system works
mjr_: you don't even know the difference between insurance and an option
cerelenius: dignork: nobody is stupid enough to hedge bitcoin with 50% price swings daily youll go broke.
mjr_: i could show you a place that will do it right now
cerelenius: mjr: why wont tigerdirect refund you in btc
mjr_: they don't want to?
dignork: cerelenius lol, previously you claimed mpex has high margins, now deduce why...
mjr_: that is a pretty easy question
mjr_: the option is expensive
mjr_: so hedging is expensive
mjr_: and you obviously can do it
Namworld: Going on and on and on about the "MtGox PDF"
mjr_: unless you are too retarded to figure it out like cerelenius
MisterE: KRS-One: not going down like expected
cerelenius: mjr right so if a retailer hedges and its super expensive
mjr_: which means that is just the price of bitcoins vs dollars
cerelenius: everyone smart knows it doesnt matter who "adopts" bitpay and coinbase, it means zero for the price
mjr_: they are just serving blank page
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 83 @ 0.00530002 = 0.4399 BTC [-] {4}
cerelenius: whats important is those who settle in bitcoin
dexX7: yup, this line is new
Apocalyptic: it's blank in appearance bur source has changed
cerelenius: well they are implying a 9-10% chance of recovery
dignork: cerelenius mpex CAN probably go broke, but not because what you;re thinking
cerelenius: dignork: well no he never will hes smarter then that, hell just cancel trades
dignork: basically default, ok, but it's unrelated to options as a mechanism
mjr_: sorry i am going to ignore cerelenius now
Duffer1: unforseen circumstance befalls us all
mjr_: i just can't deal with the stupidity any longer
cerelenius: dignork: if mpex sold a put option big enough even a decline like today would clean them out
mjr_: while i look for the ignore command
mjr_: that is probably why you don't write options that big
mjr_: and why you'd never program a bot to do so
mjr_: and why you raise money in bonds to cover your trading
mjr_: don't know though, he could have chosen those things at random
cerelenius: what mpex does is collect nickles infront of an oncoming train
mjr_: do you remember how much the losses were last april?
mjr_: but if you sell options on both sides of the train?
mjr_: so you stay delta neutral?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.058302 = 0.1166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1200 @ 0.00088222 = 1.0587 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.11967988 = 0.4787 BTC [+]
mjr_: in case you don't know
mjr_: anyone can create options
cerelenius: like i said mircea is to clever to actually bust out
mjr_: he absorbed losses that were pretty huge
dignork: mjr_ well, in reality market maker might be not delate neutral
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0583 = 0.1749 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
cerelenius: infact as he ever used the blockchain to provide evidence of anything? or is it all self issued statements
mjr_: well everyone got paid
mjr_: that is the goal though
mjr_: but that is why the derivs market can be trillions while the actual assets are not that big
mjr_: because the vast majority offset
ozbot: MPOE, April 2013 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mjr_: so typically mpex bot will probaby not try go either direction, but rather move the price so it maintains a baance
mjr_: which is what we were talking about
mjr_: bond holders getting paid and taking losses
cerelenius: im talking about payouts to whoever cleaned him for those 20k
mjr_: nah, he didn't do it, and they just accepted it quietly
dignork: cerelenius unless he is dead we'd probably hear from him
mjr_: but maybe he DID steal 2k coins
mjr_: and no one just thought it was worth bringing jup
cerelenius: thats the irony of mpex, huge btc advocate, zero useage of the blockchain to verify any of his claims
mjr_: yeah he addressed that too
mjr_: if you, you know, read anything
mjr_: you'd know all this
mjr_: we can hopefully bring you up to speed with enough links i guess
cerelenius: mjr you need to bring yourself up to speed lol
mjr_: or you can just read trilema
cerelenius: im not concerned with mircea, as i said hes clever
mjr_: yeah, you were the one who asked if he actually paid out
mjr_: thats why we answered you?
cerelenius: and nobody produced any evidence of it
mjr_: what i meant was "i'm not worried about mircea"
mjr_: those statements are not internally consistent
cerelenius: mjr one day your going to wake up broke and hungry, wondering what happened
dignork: cerelenius, if mp did not pay we'd probably hear about it
mjr_: what if no one complained about gox
Duffer1: you could just ask him to sign from the cold wallet
cerelenius: dignork: thats my point, you cant even verify if the losses are legit.
mjr_: why, the whole problem would just go away
mjr_: um...we know the prices
cerelenius: mircea can decide if bondholders lose or win
dub: yall niggers gettin trolled
mjr_: lol tell me about it du
mjr_: it sounded like him
mjr_: <disagree> you are poor/young/stupid
cerelenius: i come in here once awhile to troll mircea
mjr_: <evidence of you being wrong> well...i guess thats true <switch to subject x++>
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
mjr_: so about the whole gox thing
mjr_: that is pretty intersting
mjr_: couple interesting theories
Apocalyptic: mjr_, apparently there is an acquisition going on now...
mjr_: they are making it seem worse than it is, so they can bounce back upon releasing "good" news
mjr_: i was involved with a few people trying to make that happen
mjr_: but that was before today
mjr_: i mean 100,000 verified accounts is worth something
mjr_: we were reaching out to them, with some people who i won't name
mjr_: but who had some contacts
mjr_: but i don't know anything about it
mjr_: we hadn't gotten that far
dignork: mjr_, gox verified accounts are usefull, but not for gox itself
mjr_: this is a classic case of bad management
mjr_: if they were public they would have been taken over long ago
mjr_: since there is a ton of unexploited value
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1818 @ 0.00549983 = 9.9987 BTC [+] {8}
mjr_: i mean, i never thought their shortfall would be a 3/4 of a billion bitcoins though
mjr_: i mean of a billion dollars
mjr_: or whatever the number is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00088336 = 23.2324 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_: but, another theory is that they were hacked and held for ransom
Monarch03: guys, can I somehow filter messages from @assbot only for HAVELOCK NEOBEE trades? I dont want to see anything else on bitcoin-assets-trades
mjr_: that would be a good explanation for the code appearing in their empty html page
mjr_: no one can be stupid enough to actually leave your server on and then put that into the production source code
mjr_: so it is intentional by someone
mjr_: one could assume that it was meant to move the bitcoin price...
cerelenius: mjr_: did you meet them under the buttonwood tree?
mjr_: some people have said there is increased buying in china...so that could be the source of a hacking attack
mjr_: we mostly talk via encrypted chat
dexX7: Monarch03: go to #HavelockInvestments
dexX7: there is almost no one talking, so it's just you and the havelock tradefeed
Monarch03: I am in #bitcoin-assets-trades for tradefeed, but i dont want to see trades of different stocks, only NEOBEE
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 44 @ 0.00285 = 0.1254 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00549999 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.00549999 = 0.176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 35 @ 0.00459832 = 0.1609 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00088249 = 22.5229 BTC [-] {5}
gribble: vexual was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 18 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <Vexual> its eternal
ozbot: trick daddy chevy - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 59 @ 0.00549998 = 0.3245 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.114 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 920 @ 0.0052572 = 4.8366 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1004 @ 0.00520049 = 5.2213 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 565 @ 0.0052 = 2.938 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.00514719 = 1.0449 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 745 @ 0.00501653 = 3.7373 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.005 = 0.35 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00500001 = 0.5 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 117 @ 0.00500001 = 0.585 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 64 @ 0.0055 = 0.352 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00500001 = 0.43 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 656 @ 0.005 = 3.28 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 185 @ 0.00543986 = 1.0064 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 344 @ 0.00544773 = 1.874 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00088072 = 22.3703 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 720 @ 0.00546882 = 3.9376 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.00549998 = 0.1705 BTC [-] {2}
Neil: Has Gox actually said anything yet? Or is it all just 3rd parties talking?
Neil: I guess you can't say much when you fled Japan over the weekend.
Neil: Bitcoin is fucking 24*7 entertainment, all for free.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.0054997 = 0.11 BTC [-]
Namworld: But gox.com was recently acquired by Mark Karpeles. Blank page on mtgox.com shows this source code:
Namworld: <!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->
Namworld: That's the only thing official.
Namworld: That you can see for yourself.
Namworld: The rest is all speculation and etc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.0054997 = 0.44 BTC [-]
Neil: Fact: colleague at work had 1m JPY on MtGox, was paid to his bank account this morning
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00549978 = 0.4125 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: like they wanted to get rid of JPYs to avoid domestic litigation
jurov: but... what do we know
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28150 @ 0.00088777 = 24.9907 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 890 @ 0.00086966 = 0.774 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1680 @ 0.00086994 = 1.4615 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 800 @ 0.00087076 = 0.6966 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 4929 @ 0.00087477 = 4.3117 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 3282 @ 0.00088224 = 2.8955 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.00088799 = 1.776 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00088552 = 14.9653 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 756 @ 0.000889 = 0.6721 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.10768512 = 2.6921 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 20 @ 0.11471414 = 2.2943 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 100 @ 0.00285 = 0.285 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00088346 = 9.7181 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00549995 = 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00549997 = 0.5445 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 19 @ 0.02189999 = 0.4161 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 72 @ 0.00549999 = 0.396 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.00549999 = 0.297 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.06149999 = 0.3075 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.114899 = 0.5745 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00549999 = 0.275 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 8 @ 0.02199999 = 0.176 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 244 @ 0.000889 = 0.2169 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.02199999 = 0.22 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 751 @ 0.000889 = 0.6676 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00549999 = 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 210 @ 0.00549999 = 1.155 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00088359 = 16.479 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 137 @ 0.00549997 = 0.7535 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 8 @ 0.02199999 = 0.176 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 162 @ 0.00549995 = 0.891 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11101 @ 0.00088451 = 9.8189 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 337 @ 0.00549999 = 1.8535 BTC [+]
ozbot: Element 14 Holding Orders Based On US Government Watch List | EEVblog - The Electronics Engineering
azi`: hm.. this gox fiasco is getting more and more interesting
jurov: azi`: there's some new info?
azi`: jurov: apparently they are missing 750k coins
azi`: right, but it hints that they have some insovlency document?
jurov: oh that's the old one
azi`: anyways they stoped trading
azi`: i.e disabled trading
azi`: and this one is weird as well
jurov: yes i know. just wondered something happened in last 2 hours
azi`: what you think is going to happen?
jurov: someone from gox will have enugh and leak more? karpeles will get detained or injunction issued?
Mallstromm: Karpeles has been spotted getting breast reduction + facial surgery. Reliable sources say he has been negotiating to buy an island in international waters
jurov: he'll be able to hide easily betwee penguins somewhere near antarctica
chetty: haha yeah forget injunctions, a world full of angry users ....
cazalla: Mallstromm do you have coins on gox?
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 47560.32477655 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 487.0, vol: 113337.81736716 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 486.2, vol: 65120.41363 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 485.0011, vol: 90433.68727634 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 496.61, vol: 453.76762071 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 527.459, vol: 26741.78700000 | Volume-weighted last average: 440.76722333
BingoBoingo: MagicalTux has used the Gox Bitcoin to secure himself passage to the moom
BingoBoingo: Moom being like the Moon except actually made out of cheese.
Mallstromm: cazalla: do i look like a fucking retard?
cazalla: assumed you were due to ad hom
Mallstromm: of course I don't have coins of Gox. Only a retard or a poor clueless noob would have at this time
cazalla: only people who are making those seem to have coins there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.0054999 = 0.209 BTC [-]
Mallstromm: cazalla: I'm just having fun. I left gox for good in August after I requested a SEPA withdrawal of just 30k EUR and after 6 weeks I didn't receive it
cazalla: sounds like you escaped just in time
Mallstromm: there's only a reason for that in my book: fractional reserve. I work with banks and I know by hear that there are no "banking limits"
Mallstromm: if you have the money, you can move it - full stop
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00549999 = 0.242 BTC [+]
cazalla: that's why i don't feel any sympathy for those affected by this
Mallstromm: if you need people to wait 6 weeks before paying them... Is because you have cash-flow problems and you need to cash in before cashing out
Mallstromm: that for an exchange just screams insolvency
cazalla: i really hope they did get ganked for 750k coins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18101 @ 0.00088451 = 16.0105 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05966402 = 0.2983 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.106 = 0.53 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-] {2}
Mallstromm: cazalla: I do believe that there is a small amount of noobs/newcomers who probably just wired money to Gox because it was the best known exchange. I would have researched in forums, etc. as I did when I bought my first coins in 2012
cazalla: if they didn't lose it to gox, they would've lost it to some penny stock anyway
Mallstromm: but I can understand some noob would just send them the money. But people that has been around for months? How come they have been caught with their pants down?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 892 @ 0.00549999 = 4.906 BTC [+] {5}
Mallstromm: Having funds on gox was like playing russian roulette. The risk was huge, and what was the reward?
cazalla: i dunno, surely a noob would do research
jurov: for some ppl i know its like hazard
the20year1: the idea that maybe, just maybe they would let you wire USD or some other currency
the20year1: i asked those questions 6 months ago and every sign was leading to gox insolvency
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05831239 = 0.2916 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.106 = 0.53 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00088451 = 17.9556 BTC [+]
the20year1: But for some reason daytrading on gox was important
Mallstromm: I meant, I was a VERY happy Gox customer. I've bought hundreds of coins on there, sub $10. I have wonderful memories of Gox
Mallstromm: but as soon as the red flags are raised... Its just stupid to risk your hard earned money.
jurov: my very first sepa deposit took over 2 weeks
jurov: and that was 2 years ago
the20year1: when a company takes 3 months to process a withdraw, something is wrong
Mallstromm: jurov: fuck. I've done at least a dozen deposits to Gox, a couple of them 6 figures of EUR -> and they arrived within one week
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 300 @ 0.00569229 = 1.7077 BTC [+] {5}
Mallstromm: jurov: seame thing about withdrawals, I had "trusted" status and everything went smooth (and by smooth I mean deposits that arrived to my bank in 2 days) until they weren't
jurov: also successfully used cryptoxchange, tradehill, intersango...now all gone
Mallstromm: what I can tell you is that as soon as I had a +6 weeks delayed withdrawal I left for good. I didn't give them a second chance. There's really no point in risking your hard earned money when the insolvency signals are so strong
Mallstromm: jurov: well, daytrading is risky business indeed. I only daytraded during my "accumulation" phase. Now 90% my funds are in deep cold storage and 0% of them are on third-party services.-
jurov: many people do need that thrill
Mallstromm: I just send the coins to the exchange when I reach my profit-taking targets - to sell them for good and to withdraw the fiat immediately
cazalla: i don't get it though, it doesn't take an intelligent person to figure out this was going to happen sooner or later minus specific details
deadweasel: cazalla, when did bitcoin users = intelligence?
Mallstromm: or, when I want to buy: just today I wired quite an amount to both Bitstamp and Kraken. I'm betting on a shitstorm happening in the media, noobs panic selling and thus I'm ready to buy all the sub-$500 coins I can
jurov: we tried to talk a friend out of it, he sent fiat to gox anyway 2 weeks ago anyway
jurov: it was irresistible for some
Mallstromm: but as soon as I buy the coins I'll transfer directly to cold storage. Daytrading is really not worth it IMO
cazalla: i would bet the average bitcoiner is more intelligent than the average joe
deadweasel: afaik, this chan has told people about the fractional reserve system repeatedly.
jurov: cazalla i would bet againt
Mallstromm: jurov: TheKoziTwo has wired $100k to Gox just two days ago
chetty: Did you see Voorhees admit he got caught with 500+ on gox?
cazalla: jurov: in regards to using a computer i should add
Mallstromm: chetty: probably 500 coins are nothing to Erik. He got paid hundred of thousands for SD
Mallstromm: I mean... I also have like 0.0004 (or something like that) left on Gox. Probably 500 coins feels the same to Erik :D
jurov: cazalla computer ability has no relation to risk profile
deadweasel: are they really going to try this rebranding bullshit?
cazalla: deadweasel: people will line up to use it, that's the sad thing
Mallstromm: deadweasel: don't underestimate the general level of retardness
jurov: even if the leaked plan is fake, it portraits their mindset accurately
jurov: they must "save" the bitcoin image at all costs
jurov: because they are bitcoin
cazalla: i guess the new investors assume that whatever amount of goodwill is left in the brand is valued at more than what they are paying
jurov: 700k is very hefty amount of goodwill
cazalla: maybe they won't take the debts on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10076 @ 0.00088628 = 8.9302 BTC [+]
cazalla: karpeles goes out the back door, new outfit in through the front, relaunch on gox.com and play the typical we are not taking on debts and only bought the assets line
jurov: like tradehill? i can see them trying, but dunno
cazalla: maybe they'll do a bitinstant - we'll be back any moment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00088451 = 14.5944 BTC [-]
jurov: oh they were already doing it
cazalla: glad i took the gox out of business 2014 bet now
jurov: i took the litecoin one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17924 @ 0.00088628 = 15.8857 BTC [+]
azi`: i am somehow fascinated that they still keep support on irc
azi`: answering patiently to querries
azi`: even karp appears to be on the chan
jurov: like, what do they say?
azi`: the last time i spoke they said they are fixing it but have no ETA
azi`: even karp is not really idle on irc
azi`: i would assume they'd had to run at this point already?
deadweasel: azi`: they are coming around again for another con.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.0056 = 0.14 BTC [-]
azi`: al this is giving me dejavu's about
azi`: full tilt poker when it went down
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00574899 = 0.2874 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 24 @ 0.00574899 = 0.138 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 170 @ 0.00575 = 0.9775 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.11588043 = 1.5064 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 105 @ 0.0055 = 0.5775 BTC
cazalla: why play anywhere else but stars
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 223 @ 0.00579 = 1.2912 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 23 @ 0.00579 = 0.1332 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 178 @ 0.00579 = 1.0306 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: average player is much better now so it really isn't +EV
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00579 = 0.579 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00579 = 0.1448 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3762 @ 0.00088704 = 3.337 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00579 = 0.5211 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.00578 = 0.4046 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00578 = 0.2601 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 246 @ 0.00577953 = 1.4218 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 80 @ 0.00449998 = 0.36 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: Oh, looks like Russia is taking back Crimea
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00577 = 0.577 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 114 @ 0.00577 = 0.6578 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.005788 = 0.3994 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.005788 = 1.0476 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 978 @ 0.00578852 = 5.6612 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1107 @ 0.0008453 = 0.9357 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 244 @ 0.00579 = 1.4128 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17145 @ 0.00088428 = 15.161 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00018944 = 0.4736 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 188 @ 0.00571787 = 1.075 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.005785 = 0.162 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.06149977 = 0.5535 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 89 @ 0.00578981 = 0.5153 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.00555666 = 0.4834 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 23 @ 0.00578999 = 0.1332 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00088562 = 21.7863 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00088708 = 18.6287 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 117 @ 0.00578998 = 0.6774 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.0057899 = 0.3879 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49799998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.0057899 = 0.1158 BTC [-]
ozbot: Mt Gox CEO Karpeles says bitcoin exchange is at "turning point" - Yahoo Finance
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 19 @ 0.00551579 = 0.1048 BTC [-] {3}
deadweasel: how can you turn when you've smashed into the pavement after a freefall?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00578405 = 2.892 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00088353 = 2.2972 BTC [-]
jurov: but nobody actually saw anyone fell :D
jurov: mybe golden parachutes were involved
jurov: you have seen the gox truck?
ThickAsThieves: seems like now would also be a good time for a new zhou tong jam
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18013 @ 0.00088346 = 15.9138 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00088662 = 6.1177 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00578965 = 5.7897 BTC [+] {8}
ThickAsThieves: one gox.com NS record points to buy.internettraffic.com
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.00579989 = 1.0498 BTC [+] {2}
MCM-Mike: did you have a look at the sourcecode , of the index page?
MCM-Mike: <!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 26 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1508 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.11599997 = 0.464 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1624 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 291 @ 0.00085481 = 0.2487 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00088326 = 6.1828 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00579 = 0.3995 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00088274 = 21.7595 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2018 @ 0.00018498 = 0.3733 BTC [-] {4}
ozbot: SecondMarket to launch first U.S.-based Bitcoin exchange - The Term Sheet: Fortune's deals blogTerm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05830106 = 0.1166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1085 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.058301 = 0.1749 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.107 = 0.321 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 227 @ 0.00085746 = 0.1946 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.058301 = 0.1166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1065 = 0.213 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.005799 = 0.116 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.000865 = 0.2595 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13102 @ 0.00088111 = 11.5443 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: people are so dumb, i have 3 voicemails from a webhosting client asking for my email address, my domain for the business is literally just a logo and an email address
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 647 @ 0.0008801 = 0.5694 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: In the event of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1276 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31998 @ 0.0008795 = 28.1422 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6102 @ 0.00087836 = 5.3598 BTC [-]
jurov: prolly copied verbatim from some bezzle manual
jurov: like previous announcements
Jere_Jones_: This whole thing makes no sense unless Mark decided to run and the rest of the team is trying to pick up the pieces.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1972 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.11599997 = 0.464 BTC [+]
cazalla: he doesn't look the type to be willing or capable to rough it out for a bit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.11599998 = 0.812 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.11688888 = 0.5844 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36400 @ 0.00087792 = 31.9563 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: love those days. bitcoincharts down yet?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.0057999 = 0.435 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 19 @ 0.005799 = 0.1102 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11749998 = 0.235 BTC [+]
taub_: mtgox is dead for real now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11749998 = 0.235 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: but it's gox so anything is possible at this point
taub_: hope people get their money out if they still have some in it
jayk: mtgox probably had been cashing out coins all along til they ran out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.005797 = 0.2029 BTC [-]
jborkl_: I was on RTBTC trading when they locked it - it was exactly 8:00 on the dot my time - roughly 15 minutes later they took down the site (if you tried to trade it said trading disabled)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 61 @ 0.005797 = 0.3536 BTC [-] {2}
jborkl_: the price was getting hammered and volume was getting thin, so take what you want from that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 285 @ 0.005797 = 1.6521 BTC [-]
jborkl_: the price was getting knocked both ways very quickly due to the thin order book
ThickAsThieves: i don't think it's got a strong enough signal in all the altcoin noise
jborkl_: Tat, I think you are right on
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00579747 = 0.4986 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13144999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 179 @ 0.00579783 = 1.0378 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Facebook chief depicted as hook-nosed octopus - Europe - Al Jazeera English
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.11749997 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00589228 = 17.6768 BTC [+] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0058 = 0.174 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 428 @ 0.00589955 = 2.525 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0059001 = 0.177 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00596134 = 17.884 BTC [+] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.11749997 = 0.3525 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.1175 = 2.585 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00465 = 0.186 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.06149998 = 0.615 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00464745 = 0.2091 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0615 = 0.615 BTC [+]
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.06195454 = 0.6815 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0615 = 0.1845 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10600001 = 0.318 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0615 = 0.246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.106 = 0.424 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0615 = 0.123 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00597899 = 0.1794 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06125001 = 0.1225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (2771 shares, 15.24050000 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (6234 shares, 34.28700000 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (39460 shares, 217.03000000 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.005979 = 0.1853 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.46510003 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 111 @ 0.0058012 = 0.6439 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.106 = 1.272 BTC [-]
dexX7: KRS-One: is this personalized? i don't even see a picture.. only text links somewhere inbetween.. "More woe for Bitcoin exchange Mt.Gox" + "U.S.-based Bitcoin exchange coming"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.06125 = 0.3675 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.106 = 0.636 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.16230094 = 0.9738 BTC [-]
dexX7: coinlab? they are still promoting the mining failure on their website
davout: coinlab isn't an exchange
davout: neither is coinbase strictly speaking
davout: Duffer1: looks like it's surviving, sort of
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34749 @ 0.00087769 = 30.4988 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06249548 = 0.125 BTC [+]
davout: they report 500 BTC volume on bcharts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00580118 = 0.116 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00088173 = 16.0916 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0058012 = 0.174 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06249548 = 0.125 BTC [+]
dexX7: speaking of us bitcoin business. i'm somehow impressed about circle. came out of nothing, did nothing till now, but allaire participated as witness at the senate hearing, they joined the circle against gox etc..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.0053252 = 0.1331 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 63 @ 0.00580119 = 0.3655 BTC [-]
pigeons: why is circle doing nothing impressive?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 43 @ 0.00580119 = 0.2495 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.061252 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.1065 = 0.5325 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: I don't give a shit who saw what and who did what or who did who.
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.EXCH] 1D: 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 (212 shares, 34.40779928 BTC), 7D: 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 (678 shares, 110.04003732 BTC), 30D: 0.02010015 / 0.19616302 / 0.24310363 (2798 shares, 548.86413075 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.MINE] 1D: 0.05700000 / 0.06012384 / 0.06249548 (393 shares, 23.62866718 BTC), 7D: 0.05700000 / 0.0617085 / 0.06849999 (1174 shares, 72.44577658 BTC), 30D: 0.05610001 / 0.08000289 / 0.44000000 (3256 shares, 260.48939362 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.SELL] 1D: 0.10101010 / 0.10790614 / 0.11489900 (156 shares, 16.83335801 BTC), 7D: 0.08500000 / 0.10273955 / 0.11489900 (358 shares, 36.78075930 BTC), 30D: 0.06000001 / 0.11423134 / 0.14990000 (1939 shares, 221.49456512 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.0008822 = 12.7037 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 77 @ 0.00580119 = 0.4467 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: pigeons: are you saying all skaters and rappers are delinquents and should be locked up?
pigeons: not should. its a saying from the 80s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 206 @ 0.00580119 = 1.195 BTC [-] {2}
pigeons: its an exaggeration on the supposed oppression of skateboarding
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 69 @ 0.16230094 = 11.1988 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
ozbot: A brief history of the DOW jones - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: “We believe that everyone has the right to preserve their heritage”
thestringpuller: oh ThickAsThieves my friend started a Bitcoin business in Tifton
thestringpuller: as an experiment to see if he can educate the local populace
ThickAsThieves: educating the populace is a thankless, stress-inducing task
ozbot: Why Bitcoin Matters for Bankers - American Banker Magazine Article
ThickAsThieves: "but it was once nearly as important a port as Savannah[according to whom?]"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.30274502 BTC to 2`866 shares, 80347 satoshi per share
ozbot: The Evolution of Protest: The Bay Area Has Been Shaped by Dissent, But No One Can Stand in the Way o
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00088119 = 11.2792 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06125 = 0.1225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 18 @ 0.106 = 1.908 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.06249513 = 0.375 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 636 @ 0.0058008 = 3.6893 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 21 @ 0.00580118 = 0.1218 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0610002 = 0.244 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.106 = 0.424 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 234 @ 0.00580119 = 1.3575 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 68 @ 0.05997501 = 4.0783 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.16230094 = 0.9738 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 53 @ 0.0058012 = 0.3075 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.1175 = 0.47 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 14 @ 0.16230094 = 2.2722 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1017 @ 0.00597995 = 6.0816 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 515 @ 0.00597998 = 3.0797 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00597989 = 0.897 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11984 @ 0.00088265 = 10.5777 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.11478468 = 0.8035 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 762 @ 0.00597994 = 4.5567 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 457 @ 0.00597989 = 2.7328 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.0582 = 0.9894 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10896699 = 0.3269 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0582 = 0.2328 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.1060075 = 0.424 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1963 @ 0.00088397 = 1.7352 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 63 @ 0.00597989 = 0.3767 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 18 @ 0.16230094 = 2.9214 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0582 = 0.1746 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 58 @ 0.00598 = 0.3468 BTC [+]
moiety: nubbins`: i think they have died from laughing at gox
nubbins`: people knew it was a bad idea but they put their coins there anyway
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 12 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <mike_c> !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 84 @ 0.00598 = 0.5023 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: [14:13:29] <nubbins`> down to only two errors when executing jam on osx, related to duplicate symbols in libfparser
nubbins`: [14:14:05] <nubbins`> had some issues with the Breakpad stuff so ended up commenting it all out for now
mike_c: 2 errors! of course, the last two are always the worst.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 78 @ 0.00598 = 0.4664 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 147 @ 0.00598 = 0.8791 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 850 @ 0.00598 = 5.083 BTC [+]
nubbins`: ah fuck, hot water heater is busted
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00598 = 0.1316 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49377998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 41 @ 0.1175 = 4.8175 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00582646 = 0.1457 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.13099999 = 0.393 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 320 @ 0.00088509 = 0.2832 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.00597999 = 0.1914 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00088119 = 6.1243 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 18 @ 0.1175 = 2.115 BTC [+]
benkay: is the world less insane today, boys?
gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 19 minutes and 48 seconds ago: <nubbins`> ah fuck, hot water heater is busted
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 167 @ 0.00598 = 0.9987 BTC [+]
moiety coughs and looks at benkay
moiety: :) lol and nope the world is not less crazy today benkay!
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 36552.87216276 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 508.0, vol: 114074.61626242 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 512.687, vol: 72239.04597 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 509.24, vol: 99344.6243518 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 540.01, vol: 504.57606884 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 530.269393, vol: 27708.25900000 | Volume-weighted last average: 472.216913778
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00581117 = 0.5811 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: gox is dead, correct? dead dead?
TomServo: no, no, it's a "turning point" :P
BingoBoingo: Proposal, since Gox last will now always be 135, Instead of Quoting BTC/USD in terms of dollars, it should hence forth be quoted as a percentage of Gox last.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49377998 = 0.9876 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.06250047 = 0.125 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: MagicalTux has gone to the Moon where he hides in exile with the Doge creators, Trendon Shavers, and Usagi
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.10600001 = 0.212 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00088509 = 0.177 BTC [-]
moiety: they have even taken the office plants i hear
pankkake: apple left the "get your phone rooted by a pdf" bug open for a month, so, nothing new
pankkake: also, the java flaw, for months
cads: hey what's a better channel than #math to talk about quantitative stuff?
cads: I have a question about the basic black scholes model
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 165 @ 0.00580119 = 0.9572 BTC [-] {3}
cads: I'm looking at the definition of geometric brownian motion as the sum of a normal brownian motion and a drift function, and I'm having a hard time believing it actually lets us model real world stocks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 35 @ 0.0055 = 0.1925 BTC
cads: but one of the basic assumptions of the black scholes options valuation model is that the stocks are geometric brownian motions.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00597895 = 0.2392 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 42 @ 0.00597895 = 0.2511 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
cads: so I guess this leads to efforts to quantify and estimate the actual brownian "volatility" in a given stock, given past observations.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 37 @ 0.00597896 = 0.2212 BTC [-] {3}
cads: What gets me is that the other assumptions, like no arbitrage or market friction. seem reasonable and we might expect to weaken the assumptions later.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 163 @ 0.00597895 = 0.9746 BTC [-] {3}
cads: but when it comes to what actually creates the knowledge of the history, we have a brownian motion.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1571 @ 0.00017226 = 0.2706 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 59 @ 0.00597896 = 0.3528 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00597897 = 0.1495 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00465 = 0.186 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02199999 = 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 265 @ 0.00597895 = 1.5844 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Apple issues fix for major security flaw on OS X | The Verge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00597899 = 0.6696 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: wonder will they fix their implementation of clang next ;p
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1884 @ 0.00018548 = 0.3494 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.47000211 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.47000201 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 5 @ 0.13099999 = 0.655 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00597898 = 0.1196 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 618 @ 0.00088509 = 0.547 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 69 @ 0.00464745 = 0.3207 BTC [-]
ozbot: The Incompetence of MT GOX-How it all began - Imgur
twizt: i dunno y people advocate for web apps
davout: just ftr that was jed, not karpy
twizt: the most unsecure crap ever
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 51 @ 0.00597897 = 0.3049 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05935 = 0.1187 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10600001 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00597897 = 0.6577 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.058405 = 0.3504 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.106 = 0.636 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: mircea_popescu coinpunk.org and coinpunk.com are indeed same folks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00585737 = 0.5857 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0575 = 0.115 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 125 @ 0.0058 = 0.725 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2841 @ 0.00088008 = 2.5003 BTC [-]
Urushiol: people putting funds in securities for the expected decline?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.00591416 = 0.7097 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0057353 = 1.1471 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00591899 = 0.3551 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 17 @ 0.00591901 = 0.1006 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.057 = 0.171 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 77 @ 0.00591901 = 0.4558 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8860 @ 0.00088029 = 7.7994 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 18 @ 0.00597897 = 0.1076 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00088129 = 15.026 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 223 @ 0.00591903 = 1.3199 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.1175 = 2.82 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Mt.Gox: Decision was made to close transactions for the time being
jurov: and the situation will be very closely monitored, don't forget!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 407 @ 0.00591903 = 2.409 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 490 @ 0.00591925 = 2.9004 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00591391 = 0.2425 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 24 @ 0.0055 = 0.132 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19350 @ 0.0008814 = 17.0551 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 480 @ 0.00571002 = 2.7408 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.1175 = 0.235 BTC [+]
ozbot: "I have read your website and it is obviously that your a foggot."
benkay: "yes you will" "no i won't fag"
ozbot: Slow Ride- Foghat (Full Version) - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00597883 = 0.1315 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6340 @ 0.00087997 = 5.579 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 174 @ 0.00597887 = 1.0403 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00597895 = 0.4484 BTC [+]
deadweasel: .Why, if it isn't my old friend, Mr. McGreg. With a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.00597897 = 0.8251 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.11749131 = 0.8224 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 229 @ 0.00597899 = 1.3692 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00597898 = 0.2989 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: ;;later tell nubbins` ping me for eulorum nameservers
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00597899 = 1.4947 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 46 @ 0.0055 = 0.253 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00597897 = 0.5919 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 240 @ 0.00464756 = 1.1154 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00088076 = 31.6193 BTC [+] {2}
dub: real world gox news feedback thus far "so this is a good time to get in right?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 214 @ 0.00597897 = 1.2795 BTC [-]
twizt: and the banking system is any better
twizt: they are just pissed they couldnt use tax payer funds to bailout gox lol
TomServo: It's a steamboat not a rowboat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00597896 = 0.1973 BTC [-]
mike_c: regulation is always effective at keeping unsuspecting "consumers" safe in financial markets.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05999998 = 0.12 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 240 @ 0.00597894 = 1.4349 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 93 @ 0.00597895 = 0.556 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00597894 = 0.2451 BTC [-]
benkay: the best way to keep people who shouldn't be playing with dangerous financial instruments from doing so is to just disallow them from it. this is the MPEx model.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.06 = 0.3 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 121 @ 0.00597715 = 0.7232 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 66 @ 0.00597799 = 0.3945 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.0059 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.1175 = 1.7625 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0059 = 0.236 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0059 = 0.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00088169 = 31.1237 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: MtGox has barely moved S.MPOE I guess it was much less important than either OpenBSD Charlie Shrem's bong
benkay: heh i got that from you, mircea_popescu
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 523.68, Best ask: 524.7, Bid-ask spread: 1.02000, Last trade: 523.68, 24 hour volume: 112246.41622198, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 552.06, 24 hour vwap: 480.668707869
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 31617.24142445 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 523.68, vol: 112246.41622198 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 516.001, vol: 71134.23069 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 523.4, vol: 93598.92141544 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 530.01, vol: 431.92813782 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 540.524633, vol: 27601.08600000 | Volume-weighted last average: 486.862785055
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.005898 = 0.118 BTC [-]
dexX7: it's frozen for more than 12 or so hours
BingoBoingo: Goxlast is going to be 135 forever it seems. Prolly prudent to quote USD/BTC as a percent of Gox last nao.
mircea_popescu: and geometric brownian motion is a rather general case of stochastic process. it fits a bunch of natural phenomena.
BingoBoingo: Woe unto the poor bastard who sold those Puts to the bot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6617 @ 0.00088108 = 5.8301 BTC [-]
cads: I guess I should look into empirical studies to see how applicable it should be considered for options
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Nah, I just want some IT drone to throw him some Trilema showing that Bitcoin regulated Gox out of existence using only death by exile as a regulatory tool
mircea_popescu: cads you can make your own empirical study. pick a stock.
mircea_popescu: " Today, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Tom Carper (D-Del.) release the following statement"
mircea_popescu: for your protection, obama govt abolishes the s on verbs.
cads: I believe that's, "release dat following statement"*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00588 = 0.441 BTC [-]
KRS-One: think poor black kids care to use English properly? Hell no honky.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.1175 = 0.3525 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's compare and contrast for the permanent record :
☟︎ mircea_popescu: “My staff is working closely with relevant federal agencies to determine what lessons can be learned from this failure to help ensure this does not happen here in the United States.
mircea_popescu: “As any industry matures it will face growing pains and there will be individuals who believe they can use the fog of uncertainty to cover up their follies. When it comes to policy, it is the responsibility of the federal government to steer the boat, not row the boat. Our Committee will continue to work closely with relevant U.S. government entities to steer the boat away from nefarious actors - and it’s up to l
mircea_popescu: egitimate, law abiding industry partners to row the boat into law abiding waters.”
ozbot: Digging through archives yields gold pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: Government sponsored enterprises enter the business, in due course bad behavior is made mandatory, and the evil financial network is bigger than the honest financial network, with the result that even though everyone knows what is happening, people continue to use the paper issued by the evil financial network, because of network effects - the big, main issuers, are the issuers you use if you want to do business.
mircea_popescu: Then knowledgeable people complain that the evil financial network is heading for disaster, that the government sponsored enterprises are about to cause a “collapse of the total financial system”, as Wallison and Alan Greenspan complained in 2005, the government debates shrinking the evil government sponsored enterprises, as with “S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005″ but the
mircea_popescu: y find easy money too seductive, and S. 190 goes down in flames before a horde of political activists chanting that easy money is sound, and opposing it is racist, nazi, ignorant, and generally hateful, the recent S. 190 debate on limiting portfolios (bond issue supporting dud mortgages) by government sponsored enterprises being a perfect reprise of the debates on limiting the issue of new assignats in the 1790s.
mircea_popescu: The big and easy government attacks on money target a single central money issuer, as with the first of the modern political attacks, the French Assignat of 1792, but in the late nineteenth century political attacks on financial networks began, as for example the Federal reserve act of 1913, the goal always being to wind up the network into a single too big to fail entity, and they have been getting progressively bigge
mircea_popescu: r, more serious, and more disastrous, as with the most recent one. Each attack is hugely successful, and after the cataclysm that the attack causes the attackers are hailed as saviors of the poor, the oppressed, and the nation generally, and the blame for the the bad consequences is dumped elsewhere, usually on Jews, greedy bankers, speculators, etc, because such attacks ar
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 84 @ 0.00589798 = 0.4954 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: The Federal Reserve act was the best thing that ever happened to the US
mircea_popescu: because such attacks are difficult for ordinary people understand. I have trouble understanding your proposal - ordinary users will be easily bamboozled by a government sponsored security update. Further, when the crisis hits, to disagree with the line, to doubt that the regulators are right, and the problem is the evil speculators, becomes political suicide, as it did in America in 2007, sometimes physical suicide, a
mircea_popescu: the us government, it's agents and assigns are cordially invited to go suck an onion.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you already predicted the collapse of MtGox for those very reasons
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yes but in typical commie style, the evil empire is trying to turn things around
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 737 @ 0.00571275 = 4.2103 BTC [-] {11}
thestringpuller: but then you disregard both teh media and what the government states
thestringpuller: so just listen to the people who know what they are talkinga bout, don't play into the huxley mentality
ozbot: Erik Voorhees on Bloomberg TV : Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seems like a better alternatives to the peppers, Prolly spec any actual offers though to use horse radish rather than ginger for the thick root
BingoBoingo: Oh, already a thing. I guess that means there are standards to compare to then.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 815 @ 0.00583951 = 4.7592 BTC [+] {10}
cads: mircea_popescu: that's kinda awesome
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00587499 = 0.47 BTC [+] {2}
cads: I was just reading an article on tha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 62 @ 0.00589997 = 0.3658 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 419 @ 0.00589998 = 2.4721 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00088212 = 19.6713 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00589999 = 0.59 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 133 @ 0.00465 = 0.6185 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 609 @ 0.00589998 = 3.5931 BTC [-] {7}
BingoBoingo: Eh, We'll make offers to the next person who wants a Macbook Pro
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 434 @ 0.00589998 = 2.5606 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 190 @ 0.00589998 = 1.121 BTC [-]
benkay: mircea_popescu: are you familiar with SkySails?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm off. looking forward to reading more derpage from clueless uninvolved people with delusions of self-importance tomorrow.
ozbot: SkySails GmbH - SkySails Marine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.00589999 = 0.413 BTC [+] {3}
benkay: everything old is new again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.1175 BTC [+]
benkay: everything is technology.
benkay: you'd be well served by actually reading how they work, ThickAsThieves
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.11453543 = 0.2291 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: and today i learned what figging is
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.06 = 0.36 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.11463545 = 0.6878 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I still think though turning a nuclear aircraft carrier into a portable farm could be a fun venture though.
ThickAsThieves: <benkay> you'd be well served by actually reading how they work, ThickAsThieves /// i dunno about well-served, but okay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.16230094 = 0.9738 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 462 @ 0.00050097 = 0.2314 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.1175 = 0.235 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 482 @ 0.00088508 = 0.4266 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 296 @ 0.00589999 = 1.7464 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00088378 = 17.7198 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.06124996 = 0.49 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.1175 = 0.47 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00589999 = 0.59 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 56 @ 0.00589999 = 0.3304 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00588009 = 0.147 BTC [-]
ozbot: tour-de-babel - steveyegge2
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00589419 = 3.5365 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Tin cans filled with $10 million in gold coins found buried in California |
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.131 = 0.262 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.00464745 = 0.395 BTC [-]
davout: kakobrekla: oh someone found the stamp engine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 139 @ 0.00587 = 0.8159 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00587 = 0.1761 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00088059 = 29.1035 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00587 = 0.1996 BTC [-]
BitcoinPropagand: The posters are 18x24"(46x61cm) printed in the best quality and shipped to anywhere in the world for $30
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00088414 = 13.7042 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00587 = 0.2935 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.0057003 = 0.2793 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00087932 = 26.2037 BTC [-] {2}
TomServo: I was surprised to learn the gold coin find already had a website (saddleridgehoard.com)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00570029 = 0.228 BTC [-] {2}
TomServo: Also surprised to learn it was reg'd 17-Feb-2014. I still call shenanigans!
ThickAsThieves: mod deleted my post of "This more closely resembles a bowel movement."
ThickAsThieves: in response to "I believe this is evidence of the social movement we're witnessing." (re: destroying iphones)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00087902 = 10.5482 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.1174 BTC [-]
MisterE: BingoBoingo: LOL, 4th post is from an ambulance chasing lawyer