⏐︎ 6065
BingoBoingo: .bait
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1jv8weOja1qz7ltxo1_500.jpg
benkay: .bait
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m20parNqDc1qk6jw7o1_500.jpg
benkay: ozbot i am disappoint
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2996 @ 0.00088211 = 2.6428 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.14749 BTC [+]
pankkake: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 372.2, Best ask: 372.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.30000, Last trade: 372.49999, 24 hour volume: 49865.79118746, 24 hour low: 340.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 369.39209
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 151 @ 0.00108656 = 0.1641 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4444 @ 0.00087962 = 3.909 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 20000 @ 0.00023262 = 4.6524 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: .boat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.6901 = 3.4505 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Blue_Marlin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 44 @ 0.00615004 = 0.2706 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: .butt
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2013/they-really-are-buttcoins-nao/
ozbot: They really are Buttcoins nao pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
pankkake: I love the first comment "220 usd for that"
pankkake: sadly I heard a buttcoin isn't 10 BTC anymore
wao-ender: lol
wao-ender: who made that pic?
benkay: some butt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00654013 = 0.6867 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: That pic has so much jizz. Jizzy lens or a Mirror selfie?
pankkake: it's fishy
pankkake: http://cryptome.org/2013-info/11/intel-ug-lab/intel-ug-lab.htm
asciilifeform: pankkake: decoy. the real 'intel cpu vulnerability facility' is: a fax machine at ft. meade, where intel sends them the dirt directly, for free.
asciilifeform: sits next to microshit's fax.
mircea_popescu: hey, the cardano was on that site!
kakobrekla: http://www.vancouversun.com/100K+traded+through+Vancouver+Bitcoin+week/9145774/story.html
ozbot: $100K traded through Vancouver's Bitcoin ATM in one week (with video)
asciilifeform: cryptome's a classic
asciilifeform: they throw in pretty much anything that smells of nsa dirt.
mircea_popescu: and with that im off. don't break the butts!
pankkake: omg, it did http://cryptome.org/2013/10/bitcoin-usb-gpg.htm
asciilifeform: yeah
pankkake: did that bring a lot of traffic?
asciilifeform: pankkake: no idea. ask mp when he wakes up.
benkay: hey asciilifeform why would i buy and hold s.nsa if you (pursuant to 3.2b) can simply issue more shares?
asciilifeform: benkay: read the listing (written by mp, not me); there is a promise not to dilute
benkay: i see that
asciilifeform: so, the way i understand, any new shares are automatically priced at a moving average of a long period preceding the issue.
benkay: so i'm an idiot and don't understand how that's not diluting my holdings
benkay: theoretical holdings
asciilifeform: you should probably ask mp to be sure.
benkay: ;;later tell mircea_popescu please for ams to explain how issuance of new s.nsa even at rolling 30d is not dilution of existing shareholders because ams idiots
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: i'm just contrasting that to s.mpoe where the deal is "there are 1b shares and will only ever be 1b shares"
asciilifeform: if i'm not mistaken, the s.nsa listing text is based on that of s.mg (and to a lesser extent, others)
asciilifeform: i must remind you, i am not an expert on the mechanics of mpex/mpoe. by all means, ask the author.
benkay: who just went to bed :(
benkay: does anyone else have any insight on the topic?
asciilifeform: in fact, full disclosure time! i'm not a 'serious btc persona (TM)', just an amateur maths type. ~3btc to my name.
benkay: dog save us from serious internets
asciilifeform: carried on a correspondence of sort with mp since writing a piece on his creation (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108)
mod6: oh yeah! forgot that was you.
benkay: in any event, the dilution rules are a little hazy, and i'm a little stupid and prone to making outrageous claims for my betters to correct.
pankkake: As I gather, the MPEx PR department currently consists of one person, paid to post pictures of pretty girls in Bitcoin forums.
asciilifeform: pankkake: review was based primarily on the free demo, and the correspondence which led up to the latter.
benkay: the other line that's amusing in retrospect is "I, for one, will wait for the fully-decentralized systems."
benkay: (just taking the piss, asciilifeform)
asciilifeform: in a sufficiently-hostile environment, full decentralization (of mechanical function, if not necessarily administration) is the only answer.
asciilifeform: a decentralized SR would live still. etc
Diablo-D3: ;;ticker
kakobrekla: http://www.coindesk.com/shopify-integrates-bitcoin-payments/
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 332.00001, Best ask: 332.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.98999, Last trade: 332.0, 24 hour volume: 61621.37186433, 24 hour low: 305.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 360.15259
pankkake: I'm not sure I ever used a shopify website
pankkake: but this what needs to be done
pankkake: easy store creation with bitcoin processing
Diablo-D3: yeah
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.7189 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 900 @ 0.00108655 = 0.9779 BTC [-]
jurov: benkay: it's meant s.nsa will never have more than 100`000`000 shares ever
jurov: but since they did not sell on IPO, may be sold later
jurov: not all of them sold at IPO, I mean
benkay: so "authorized float" means "that as what we sold at ipo", or pre-ipo as described on cryptome
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.33383759 BTC [-]
jurov: yes. and it may be increased by future stock warrants and such
jurov: up to the 1e8 limit
benkay: that 1e8 limit is mighty implicit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 140 @ 0.00654129 = 0.9158 BTC [+] {5}
jurov: well, mircea likes to plan big :)
Duffer1: so.. it's an investment i guess but one that's guaranteed to lose you 100% of everything you put into it
Duffer1: oop
benkay: i'm saying it's not clear at all that e8 is the hard upper limit of issuance
Duffer1: totally wrong chan ^.^
jurov: (a) No Such lAbs will offer one block of 100`000`000...etc
jurov: (b) No Such lAbs solemnly promises and warrants never to issue more shares ...etc
jurov: that's it
jurov: admittedly, it may be a bit clearer
benkay: "All future share issuance will be made only a) through selling of new shares on MPEx"
benkay: it could definitely be made clearer.
benkay: intent is there, but so is ambiguity.
benkay: dat "new shares"
jurov: at least there are no footnotes like on trilema
benkay: i'm always sad at the footnotes mouseover text escaping
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4259 @ 0.00087864 = 3.7421 BTC [-]
nubbins`: ;;ident gribble
gribble: Nick 'gribble', with hostmask 'gribble!~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble', is not identified.
benkay: i love parsing 8859 by eye
nubbins`: i love huge bid/ask spreads
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 641 @ 0.00087455 = 0.5606 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 920 @ 0.00108655 = 0.9996 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.04879992 = 0.1952 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1542 @ 0.00087644 = 1.3515 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.1311 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 8 @ 0.1305 = 1.044 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 17 @ 0.04999459 = 0.8499 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.3 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00087427 = 4.1965 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.718899 = 1.4378 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1410 @ 0.00108655 = 1.532 BTC [+] {3}
uhh: omg is this teh end of bitcoin?
uhh: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 292.0, Best ask: 294.99944, Bid-ask spread: 2.99944, Last trade: 294.99944, 24 hour volume: 66527.46188700, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 352.39072
uhh: uhh ohh
KRS1: yes..go home.
KRS1: nothing here
benkay: guh.
benkay: next time i pay someone to diddle my laundries.
benkay: argentina is great
benkay: right up until you need to do something in small units of currency
benkay: and then fuck everything
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 400 @ 0.00108655 = 0.4346 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 24 @ 0.0063301 = 0.1519 BTC [+]
benkay: ;;calc 30/8
gribble: 3.75
uhh: so what's in at the moment, now that bf closed etc.?
benkay: business with profit models and proven management
uhh: sounds like 1 % per year return
uhh: but i'm curious
uhh: name your gem
benkay: 1% on what, btc?
benkay: sounds greedy to me.
uhh: then PIF is probably a good choice for you
benkay: heck yea
benkay: ;;ud piff
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=piff | superior to the average. Also a potent strain of weed/canibus of purple color.
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: piff
uhh: haha also not bad
benkay: on an entirely different topic
benkay: http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/m/pub-archive/176h/0176%20(Havelund).pdf
benkay: when will the scientific community release papers that display well on computer screens oriented normally?
aaaaasss: hey
uhh: what do you have in mind? 4 columns?
benkay: i have in mind hiring a designer
nubbins`: you know that's meant for print, right?
uhh: only because you are a printing guy doesn't give you the right to promote old school technology. who uses paper these days?
benkay: i was under the impression these humans were trying to communicate
uhh: .bait
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcezhjr7lm1r09wbpo1_500.jpg
benkay: mmm.
benkay: moar tattoos.
nubbins`: if they wanted you to not print it, they wouldn't have made it a pdf
benkay: what these academics (along with many others) want or even "think" is irrelevant
nubbins`: and yet here you are, forced to live with their decisions
nubbins`: funny, that
benkay: "forced"
benkay: funny, that
nubbins`: unless you have the option to read these papers in a format that's a good fit for your screen?
uhh: maybe we shouldn't pitchfork the printing guys and scientists, but adobe.
benkay: i have the option
benkay: don't much care to derp through it
nubbins`: what
nubbins`: 'd adobe do wrong?
nubbins`: (i know, that's a really open-ended question)
nubbins`: but pdf is great
uhh: i'd say they do have an influence on how pdfs are presented on a computer screen
nubbins`: i'd say the creator of the document specified the exact dimensions of the page
nubbins`: and, in fact, had complete control over the presentation of the content
nubbins`: because that's what pdf is for :(
benkay: we're definitely out of my domain here
mike_c: they created it like that out of habit, not out of a thought-out decision as to what would be best these days.
benkay: leastaways i haven't touched this derpy shit since high school
benkay: but we could start with absolute positioning of letters
nubbins`: there's no better way for me to guarantee that if i send you a document, it'll look exactly the same to you as it does to me
benkay: a thing about which i give zero shits
nubbins`: lel
benkay: can i get that info into my brain in a more pleasantly formatted way?
benkay: it's this whole idea of ideas as opposed to aesthetics
benkay: you have this amusing hangup on aesthetics
nubbins`: you're fucked
benkay: now don't get me wrong, they're important
nubbins`: a pdf looks the same on every system
nubbins`: what else are you gonna send, a .doc?
benkay: at least that preserves the notion of a character stream
nubbins`: oh, whoops, you don't have the right fonts or they're drawn differently or your page margins are different, etc
nubbins`: you're missing the point
uhh: now i see why my last statement was kinda stupid
benkay: ("you're fucked" - erudite as always)
nubbins`: obstinate as always!
benkay: do illuminate me.
nubbins`: there are many, many occasions in this world where it's important that the recipient of the document be shown the exact thing that the sender intended
benkay: oh and don't get me wrong, aesthetics are important
nubbins`: it's not a question of aesthetics
benkay: it's how my firm makes our bread
nubbins`: it's a question of presenting information in a standard way
benkay: presenting images, i'd amend.
nubbins`: not exclusively
benkay: the information is clearly taking it up the tuchus in the .pdf "format"
nubbins`: the information is presented exactly how the creator of the pdf intended
nubbins`: if he intended to make a shit-looking document, well, too bad
benkay: the creator of that pdf didn't give two shits about any presentation beyond getting it printed and validated by the american idiot community of "scientists"
nubbins`: okay, so?
benkay: information clearly taking a backseat to arbitrary presentation guidelines written by an obsolete industry.
nubbins`: you're trying to generalize a specific case
benkay: my complaint was about a specific case
nubbins`: presentation guidelines, etc
benkay: where's my damn character stream.
benkay: embedded in some fucking layer in that monstrosity of a transmission?
benkay: i see why you left IT
benkay: you get neither information nor technology
nubbins`: creator of the doc obv didn't give a fuck how it looked on a computer screen
nubbins`: why would he?
nubbins`: it was probably being sent to a journal to be published
nubbins`: not posted on his blog
nubbins`: i doubt he gives a red fuck how it looks on a computer screen, and why should he?
nubbins`: all i see is wailing that something's not in your preferred form, like your chicken nuggets were cut up before mom put them on your plate and now you won't eat them
nubbins`: "where's my damn character stream" ☟︎
nubbins`: lel
benkay: it was perfectly acceptable chicken to begin with
benkay: why subject it to this ammonia
nubbins`: you're like an old man in a lineup
nubbins`: stomping and huffing
nubbins`: "why didn't this scientist realize i only read things on my computer!"
nubbins`: seriously though, keep it up. people will eventually come around
benkay: "why didn't this scientist realize i only read things on my computer! (sic)"
benkay: well because scientists generally care about behavior at the limit
benkay: a calculus thing
benkay: if i contribute to the demise of print in any way it'll have been a good day's work
nubbins`: if you contribute to anything in any way it'll have been a surprise to all
nubbins`: anyway, the document is in two skinny columns because skinny columns are easier to read.
nubbins`: that's why, y'know, newspapers and magazines and scientific journals use them
benkay: not objecting to columns
benkay: those make a modicum of sense
nubbins`: so literally just the fact that it's not a plain text doc?
benkay: nah
benkay: just getting a rise out of you
benkay: print
benkay: almost too easy
nubbins`: uh huh
benkay: night nubs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.718899 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.7188995 = 1.4378 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9081 @ 0.00087277 = 7.9256 BTC [-] {2}
Ademan: Does anyone know what the current status of bASIC-MINING is? As best I can tell from the bitcointalk thread, the operator is totally MIA.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.7199999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Ademan http://trilema.com/2013/whats-a-sperglord/
mircea_popescu: but that's pretty much it, totally mia.
Ademan: I don't deny being an aspie, but did you mean creativex is an aspie or me?
mircea_popescu: tom van dyke
mircea_popescu: (the basic guy)
mircea_popescu: that's what were you asking wasn't it ?
Ademan: ah, yeah indeed
Ademan: Well, the bitcointalk thread claims he's "Eric Corlew"
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay well i can't explain why x thing isn't y thing. why do you think it is in the first place ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: Ademan ya well, who's who in the bitcoin scamspace is always an iffy proposition.
mircea_popescu: this is why people invest on mpex rather than fucking themselves over on the play-pretend "alternatives".
Ademan: mircea_popescu: can you give me a full disclosure on that statement? ;-)
mircea_popescu: i run mpex.
Ademan: was joke, attempted joke anyways
mircea_popescu: o. lol.
mircea_popescu: sorry sir, we here at internet house are proud to say no joke.
mircea_popescu: no joke at all.
Ademan: haha
Ademan: from a purely marketing standpoint, have you ever considered throwing a stylesheet on there?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: in the same way a four star michelin restaurateur has from a purely marketing standpoint considered throwing a drive-in in there.
mircea_popescu: mostly to go "hahahahahaha-hahahahaha"
Ademan: lol somehow I knew that was a dangerous question to ask
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, most interaction with mpex is programatical.
mircea_popescu: the last thing people want is more cruft.
mircea_popescu: pankkake no, actually, it's about half a dozen people, mostly engaged in an all out war with the "press" establishment of teh english speaking computing world.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: a decentralized SR would live still. etc <<< it couldn't possibly, in that it'd have been made by the guy that hired his cocaine buyers to kill his cocaine curiers.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay: so "authorized float" means "that as what we sold at ipo", or pre-ipo as described on cryptome << no, it means the total # of shares actually having been issued. this starts as that which was sold at ipo, increases every time someone executes a stock warrant and every time the company issues more shares.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: jurov: up to the 1e8 limit << actually mpex is on 64 bit systems, there's no 1e8 limit. iirc it's 1e42 or something
Ademan: mircea_popescu: 30 BTC is steep as hell, is there anything against pooling and/or "reselling" access?
mircea_popescu: nope. jurov runs a full service broker
mircea_popescu: with css.
mircea_popescu: other people do the same thing privately. which is how exchanges fucking work in the first place.
mircea_popescu: jurov : "(b) No Such lAbs solemnly promises and warrants never to issue more shares on any other venue" ; "nor in any way to fraudulently dilute existing shareholders at any point in the future". separate clauses.
Ademan: lol it's practically a boilerplate tg2 site
mircea_popescu: TeleGiornale 2 ?
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 341.1, Best ask: 342.9311, Bid-ask spread: 1.83110, Last trade: 341.1, 24 hour volume: 71989.74982744, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 345.56628
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.0065402 = 0.1373 BTC [+]
Ademan: transgender2, it's the second level
Ademan: buh uh, turbogears 2, was a neat python web application framework
mircea_popescu: o
mircea_popescu: coinbr you mean ?
mircea_popescu: or nsa ?
Ademan: coinbr
Ademan: the NSA might be transgender, I dunno
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.72848571 = 5.0994 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.00654525 = 0.7854 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.7299 = 2.1897 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6000 @ 0.00012 = 0.72 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.7299 = 1.4598 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1678 @ 0.00011959 = 0.2007 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.7299 = 2.9196 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.732 = 4.392 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.7324 = 2.1972 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00087576 = 8.3635 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 68 @ 0.0065499 = 0.4454 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00209889 = 0.2099 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.7324 = 1.4648 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 405 @ 0.00108655 = 0.4401 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.7324 = 4.3944 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.7325 = 3.6625 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://superdickery.com/images/stories/dick/1027_4_030.jpg
clamcat: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 340.0, Best ask: 342.97979, Bid-ask spread: 2.97979, Last trade: 342.97981, 24 hour volume: 71027.21107632, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 343.80987
clamcat: Bitstamp down to 307
clamcat: ;;market sell 10000
gribble: A market order to sell 10000 bitcoins right now would net 2926878.0981 USD and would take the last price down to 270.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 292.6878 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 124.7729 seconds
clamcat: ;;market sell 20000
gribble: A market order to sell 20000 bitcoins right now would net 5452647.9474 USD and would take the last price down to 230.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 272.6324 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 155.3802 seconds
clamcat: ;;market buy 10000
gribble: A market order to buy 10000 bitcoins right now would take 3918593.9166 USD and would take the last price up to 420.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 391.8594 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 174.9046 seconds
clamcat: ;;market buy 20000
gribble: A market order to buy 20000 bitcoins right now would take 16066080.2504 USD and would take the last price up to 3452.7072 USD, resulting in an average price of 803.3040 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 184.1464 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00087738 = 3.9482 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: <Ademan> [08:01:18] lol it's practically a boilerplate tg2 site << so nice to meet fellow coder :DDD
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.73249 = 1.465 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 336.99003, Best ask: 337.99997, Bid-ask spread: 1.00994, Last trade: 336.99002, 24 hour volume: 71064.95691229, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 343.56136
Diablo-D3: booo
mircea_popescu: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currencies/
ozbot: Bitcoin Charts / Markets
mircea_popescu: seems that data is stale. it's 326 24 hour vwap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2107 @ 0.00087832 = 1.8506 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: mircea_popescu iirc benkays' original question was "aint it stock dilution?"
jurov: i'd like to see some hard limit on that in the contract(even if 1e8 shares), too
jurov: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 268812 | Current Difficulty: 5.109297380161518E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 270143 | Next Difficulty In: 1331 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 15 hours, 25 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 525565264.161 | Estimated Percent Change: 2.86449
mircea_popescu: why ?
mircea_popescu: if at time t the stock is worth more than what it's trading for, people should buy it. if they can't buy it, it's not worth more.
mircea_popescu: if it's not worth more, issuing more at that price is not dilution.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrZgHBXBKJ0&t=9m45s
jurov: i personally don't have big issue with it, we'll see how it will work out. It's much much better that S.DICE was, with evoorhees throwing stuff in randomly without any announce/approval needed
mircea_popescu: um.
mircea_popescu: s.dice never issued more stock.
jurov: yes, but there were huge pools of shares not on the market and arriving all at once, which s.nsa is so far avoiding
jurov: and the contract even makes some stipulations about the price
mircea_popescu: that's really the empire of the holder. if asciilifeform decides to convert his warrants in a bulk and dump them on the market for instance it'd be similar a result
mircea_popescu: afair the major problem with s.dice was that at some point erik arbitrarily decided to reclassify an asset class in his accounting,
mircea_popescu: but that only lasted about two days and he backed off.
mircea_popescu: so it's only "major" in a theoretical sense, otherwise innocent mistake and all.
jurov: seems i should reread the mpex stuff n+1 times :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 0.143 BTC [-]
jurov: and include even the listing agreement commentary in my upcoming "missing mpex manual"
mircea_popescu: actually someone writing mpex contract commentary and adding together mpex caselaw would provide an infinitely valuable service
mircea_popescu: certainly more than all bitcoin foundation ever did in its ignominous history to date.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00088227 = 7.8963 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: which incidentally inspired a new mpex caption.
mircea_popescu: "Welcome to MPExProviding nucleation in the superheated fluid of Bitcoin. Since 2011."
mircea_popescu: bitcoincharts has been hacked. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: options quoting disabled on mpex.
kakobrekla: >On some level I feel your pain. I've long wanted to start a bitcoin-settled version of Intrade (no, bitbets/betsofbitcoin/etc are not even close to being the same thing) and an exchange-cleared market for hashrate futures. But as a US citizen and resident it's illegal for me to do these things for at least a dozen different reasons.
mircea_popescu: "chief among them, that i'm a fucktard who shouldn't be even close to doing anything of the sort, as i've clearly proven by the thick cluelessness of the foregoing."
kakobrekla: you know who i quoted
kakobrekla: ?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea. who did you quote ?
kakobrekla: eldentyrell
mircea_popescu: works.
zist: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 338.5, Best ask: 341.9, Bid-ask spread: 3.40000, Last trade: 341.9, 24 hour volume: 72059.99145526, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 341.92907
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.732499 = 2.1975 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7346 @ 0.00088473 = 6.4992 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 9 @ 0.04998279 = 0.4498 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00654999 = 0.131 BTC [+]
firedrops: lol, idiot in -hidden just sent 2BTC to tor hidden service 'bitcoin laundry'..
firedrops: asking when he's going to rec'd his clean coins.... :)
kakobrekla: tell him for next time, ill clean his coins for 50% only, instead of 100% that he is paying now
Apocalyptic: I liked BigBitz's answer
BigBitz: what answer is that ?
BigBitz: Oh that 2BTC guy... Oh man... that's like $700. Brutal.
Apocalyptic: <BigBitz> are you mental ? // one must really be to do something like this..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4243 @ 0.00088185 = 3.7417 BTC [-]
BigBitz: poor guy :(
mircea_popescu: 2 btc well spent.
BigBitz: NOT.
firedrops: nobody can take his experience away from him, and it was entertaining, so +1 for well spent.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.732499 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: some people spend some bitcents and read all of trilema. some people buy some coffeee and read the log of this chan
mircea_popescu: some people invest 950 btc in coinlenders and afterwards compliment me on how "prophetic" my gpg contract was.
mircea_popescu: it's a free world, everyone gets to the same spot on a path of his own choice.
BigBitz: Investing in TradeFortress. lololololol.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/lvm-lsa-i1ownership-1/ < if anyone cares, i'm doing an adnotation of mises' socialism.
ozbot: LvM L&Sa - I.1.Ownership (1) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
zist: "Paul: He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing"
mircea_popescu: yup
zist: extra points if you know where that comes from
mircea_popescu: it's much older than herbert.
mircea_popescu: it comes, like everything, from the greeks.
zist: yes, but taht
zist: that's luch less fun
zist: arty pooper :)
zist: party*
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.7325 BTC [+]
pankkake: artsy pooper
zist: pankkake: please feel free to correct my bad typing too. Tiring of typing twice and adding *
pankkake: I realize I make a lot of typos too on IRC
pankkake: I shouldn't be so lazy
pankkake: or have a client with spellchecking
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3210 @ 0.00087857 = 2.8202 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.732499 = 1.465 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.732499 = 2.93 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 400 @ 0.00663577 = 2.6543 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.70000011 = 2.8 BTC [-] {3}
kleinessteak: can someone explain what the {x} means at the end of the assbot msg?
kakobrekla: lotto numbers
kleinessteak: thnx
kleinessteak: :D
kakobrekla: yw!
kleinessteak: and why is there no msg anymore for trades on bitfunder?
kakobrekla: srsly, trades are aggregated over 1 min, when you see {x} it tells you how many trades were merged
kakobrekla: buttfunder was never here on #bitcoin-assets
kleinessteak: i see, thank you
kakobrekla: and if you get anything on the lotto draw, 10% cut seems fari for assbot.
kakobrekla: fair*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1781 @ 0.00108655 = 1.9351 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: mircea_popescu: doesn't dilution mean "i had x% of stock base but now after issuance i have >x%"?
benkay: x including warrants
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00646151 = 1.2923 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: ;;seen smickles
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 20 hours, 43 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <smickles> $avg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00087987 = 5.6312 BTC [+]
benkay: ping mircea_popescu
benkay: unrelated http://fiatleak.com/
mircea_popescu: benkay no, dilution means my shares entitled me to x equity now they entitle me to less than x.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> buttfunder was never here on #bitcoin-assets << i gotta hand it to you... the old "well if you delay enough the problem may go away"
kakobrekla: :)
pankkake: I have been very successful at this :/
benkay: so when there are new shares how does the amount of equity i'm entitled to not decrease?
benkay: mircea_popescu:
mircea_popescu: because new shares are sold for at least as much as your current shares are worth
mircea_popescu: which means equity increases at least at the same rate as the float.
benkay: and that btc hits the book as an asset
benkay: roger
benkay: god i'm phenomenally dumb
mircea_popescu: well, the idea that dilution = more shares is somehow very intuitively easy.
mircea_popescu: it's not correct, but in order for this point to become important some progress has to be made.
mircea_popescu: as far as forum investing is concerned... that first approximation is great really.
benkay: it's a product of the SV "investment" model
mircea_popescu: sv ?
benkay: new shares are issued, new cash hits books, value of existing shares remains stable, but then burn that cash on kegs and giant bags of refined hfcs
benkay: silicon valley
thestringpuller: bitfunder imploded?
mircea_popescu: oh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6333 @ 0.00087902 = 5.5668 BTC [-] {2}
pankkake: something new?
mircea_popescu: benkay well obviously equity is capital at risk. bad things can happen. ideally the bad things happen as a result of legitimate business ventures rather than beerkegging obviously.
benkay: anyways. questions about issuance resolved. tyvm.
mircea_popescu: np
zist: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 307.0, Best ask: 309.99498, Bid-ask spread: 2.99498, Last trade: 307.0, 24 hour volume: 75027.40204515, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 337.535
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00087812 = 8.0787 BTC [-]
jo_: ?
jo_: .pr
jo_: !help
assbot: List of commands:
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}
assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}
assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}
assbot: !jd (desc: returns relevant stats from https://just-dice.com)
assbot: !bash <lines> (desc: bashes last <lines> lines to bash) {short: !b}
assbot: !quote <lines> (desc: quotes last <lines> lines and returns dpaste url) {short: !q}
jo_: !s.nsa
jo_: !mp
assbot: Please use http://dpaste.com/
mircea_popescu: jo_ whatcher tryin;' to do ?
kakobrekla: hax ur computah
mircea_popescu: o that.
jo_: !last s.nsa
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
jo_: !last mpex s.nsa
assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.000235 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.73 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.73 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.0008771 = 9.4727 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.73449999 BTC [+]
zist: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 306.2, Best ask: 308.0, Bid-ask spread: 1.80000, Last trade: 306.2, 24 hour volume: 76962.27551906, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 335.05303
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60000 @ 0.00087253 = 52.3518 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.73 = 3.65 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00667591 = 0.701 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1691 @ 0.0066976 = 11.3256 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 59 @ 0.0067 = 0.3953 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.72 = 1.44 BTC [-]
zist: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 306.0, Best ask: 306.25001, Bid-ask spread: 0.25001, Last trade: 306.0, 24 hour volume: 78320.52789357, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 395.0, 24 hour vwap: 334.59426
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: no further takers on the bounty from http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/ i guess
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i guess not. the advantage of bitcoin however...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.72 = 5.76 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1387468/Black-couple-Francis-Arlette-Tshibangu-white-baby-blond-hair.html
ozbot: Black couple Francis and Arlette Tshibangu have white baby with blond hair | Mail Online
mircea_popescu: white powa!
mjoiii_: L
nubbins`: more like daily fail dot co dot uk!
pankkake: why is that news? I thought it was a common occurence
nubbins`: anyway, the bounty grows in value with each passing day -- you don't see that with fiat
pankkake: it's not white, it's black with white skin
mircea_popescu: well they gotta come up with something every day
mircea_popescu: "When I bent down and kissed him I got a better look at his features and could see he looked just like me and Arlette. He has my nose and my wife’s lips."
mircea_popescu: that's so crazy. they both have exactly the same noses and lips, those two people.
pankkake: don't all blacks look alike?
nubbins`: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/US_Army_How_To_Spot_A_Jap.png
pankkake: there's a game, but I can't find it, where you have to say if the person is korean, japanese, or chinese
nubbins`: lel, "or try 'LALAPALOOZA' on them! that's a panic!"
nubbins`: pankkake: koreans and japanese are more similar in features as well as in the way their language sounds
pankkake: yeah. but now thanks to starcraft I can distinguish them
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: there was a starcraft tv station when i lived in sk :(
pankkake: oh you lived there? nice
pankkake: a country that values video games players more than football players can't be that bad!
asciilifeform: the old 'shibboleth' method...
nubbins`: as a Foreigner (with a capital F), it was both good and bad
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.71 BTC [-]
nubbins`: overall i appreciated the experience, wouldn't do it again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00087636 = 6.2222 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 390 @ 0.00108654 = 0.4238 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.7333 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.7345 = 1.469 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0069501 = 0.1321 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 693 @ 0.00695002 = 4.8164 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.73449 = 1.469 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.7345 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 996 @ 0.002098 = 2.0896 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 0.205 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 46 @ 0.00645435 = 0.2969 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00086992 = 7.7423 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://www.doublerobotics.com/
ozbot: Double Robotics - Telepresence Robot for Telecommuters
mircea_popescu: this is made for mothers-in-law isn't it.
pankkake: that has to be the most impolite thing ever
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.002006 = 0.1083 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: new technology usually is.
zist: MP: are you planning on stalking your inlaws with it ??
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's all lost by now, but at a time in human history before computers,
mircea_popescu: the one joke in most ample common use was the evil of the mother in law
mircea_popescu: and how she visits uninvited and inserts herself in the ribcage of her son in law and so on
asciilifeform: there was an earlier vendor that made these. intended for factory floor overseers. those had aim-able laser pointers.
zist: mircea_popescu: ::)
zist: :)
mircea_popescu: i wonder what happened to the earlier vendor.
asciilifeform: it was a paulgrahamoid
asciilifeform: those tend to die mysterious deaths
asciilifeform: or possibly they just rebranded and this is still it.
mircea_popescu: seems likely. i was thinking "well maybe they rebranded it and took more investment"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1485 @ 0.00011102 = 0.1649 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 164 @ 0.00108599 = 0.1781 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.7345 = 4.407 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6722 @ 0.00086929 = 5.8434 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 0.04802759 = 0.1441 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 585 @ 0.0019894 = 1.1638 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 125 @ 0.0018 = 0.225 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4495 @ 0.00087076 = 3.9141 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 130 @ 0.00108599 = 0.1412 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: anyone used all4btc.com before?
mircea_popescu: nope
lyspooner: when were all those puts purchased on mpex
mircea_popescu: some were bought some were sold
mircea_popescu: a few days ago
lyspooner: are you making prices still? looks n/a to me
mircea_popescu: the bitcoincharts site died.
lyspooner: aw crap
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-11-2013#375395 ☝︎
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 157 @ 0.00108599 = 0.1705 BTC [+]
clamcat: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 332.43999, Best ask: 332.49, Bid-ask spread: 0.05001, Last trade: 332.5, 24 hour volume: 78706.08840971, 24 hour low: 290.0, 24 hour high: 383.0, 24 hour vwap: 328.91239
mod6: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 268908 | Current Difficulty: 5.109297380161518E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 270143 | Next Difficulty In: 1235 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 542730094.758 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.22402
mod6: weird, bitcoincharts.com seems to work ok for me?
mircea_popescu: it's been back for hours
mircea_popescu: i'm just giving it a little to see wtf exactly.
mod6: ahh i see.
mod6: oh and btw, eulora v0.0.3 worked & started up fine for me on linux... but the server wasn't up. but as far as the package... it unpacked and started up no problem.
mircea_popescu: a cool
mircea_popescu: the server's been having some choking issues so it's been up and down the past few days
mircea_popescu: should be mostly up next week
mod6: mircea_popescu: cool! thx.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.712 = 1.424 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.70600001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.70098817 = 15.4217 BTC [-] {5}
jurov: http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/10/5088048/british-intelligence-gchq-linkedin-slashdot-quantum-insert
ozbot: British intelligence reportedly intercepted LinkedIn and Slashdot traffic to plant malware | The Ver
mircea_popescu: no gpg, no love.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.6900909 = 7.591 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: mpex db_dump back online, hopefully won't be ever needed
mircea_popescu: amen.
mod6: werd. thx for the update jurov
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 3405 @ 0.00105067 = 3.5775 BTC [-] {14}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14020 @ 0.00087345 = 12.2458 BTC [+]
benkay: http://media.coindesk.com/2013/10/Google-Glass-Dog.jpg
benkay: hello this is dog