assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 13 @ 0.02400009 = 0.312 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: if i had bought bitcoins instead of lunch a few years ago id be rich!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.02449999 = 0.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.0249 = 0.3735 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.6401 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4399 BTC [+]
furuknap: I'm not joking, but despite having tried, I still don't understand Ripple.
furuknap: As in, I have no idea how the fuck it works.
mircea_popescu: what a fuckwit that guy. "not open" "centralised" vs "ponzi" how are these "the same" ?
mircea_popescu: Ripple is led by Jed McCaleb (founder of MtGox, eDonkey) and Chris Larsen (e-loan, Prosper.com), both successful businessmen who do not have an interest in sullying their good name
mircea_popescu: (and he was the "auditor" in the 1st mtgox heist, incidentally)
mircea_popescu: i'd blog about that retard but the problem is the 1% idiots that read trilema and don't understand wtf would probably triple his trafic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02449999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 1 @ 0.73999 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 1 @ 0.74 BTC [+]
Namworld: The thing is, XRP isn't really a currency. It's tokens to make transactions...
Namworld: and they're not really being sold
Namworld: The issue is, Ripple is just plain stupid...
furuknap: Wow. Crypto-trade may actually launch in less than 24 hours. I'd buy shares, but I can't seem to get my jaw back up from the floor.
furuknap: Ever heard trhe term vaporware?
furuknap: They'll shortly be upgrading the wikipedia article to list Crypto-Trade as a typical example.
Namworld: All money on Ripple is just IOUs... you have to trust certain issuers... which tends to be exchanges... which trade virtual currencies and fiats...
furuknap: I still don't get it. I get an IUO from whom and why could that be worth squat to me?
Namworld: So Ripple is kinda superfluous...
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [+]
Namworld: It's worth something if the IOU issuer is an exchange, like BitStamp for example
Namworld: since you can deposit this IOU at that exchange for BTC or USD or whatever
furuknap: So... You run exchange X and I buy an IOU from you to sell it back to you? In other words, a plain, regular loan?
Namworld: You could, for example, trade a Gox 1 BTC IOU on ripple for 130 USD IOUs from BitStamp with another Ripple user.
Namworld: Since all virtual currencies can be just sent directly to that other exchange
Namworld: You could trade one exchange's fiat IOU for another exchange's other fiat IOUs
furuknap: Yeah, because why would I want to do that? I could just trade it for USD or any other currency.
furuknap: Nobody, but my friends would buy a BTC from me an pay me in Norwegian kroner.
Namworld: They can't track who traded the fiat and just add it back to an account? AML clusterfuck
ericmuyser: banks work on IOU's. people give loans to eachother. ripple is real life, without the cash in hand
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4399 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.469 BTC [-]
Namworld: Ripple can render fiat transfer easiers, by allowing fiat from Bank/Exchange X to be traded with someone else for fiat from Bank/Exchange Y. Then each can instantly deposit the IOU at that bank.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.47 = 9.88 BTC [+]
furuknap: So... I start with 1 BTC. What benefit will Ripple give me that I can't get form just having and using my BTC?
Namworld: But that's a complete money laundering headache
Namworld: Ripple is not a currency. It's not a type of money. It's a platform.
Namworld: But Ripple itself doesn't hold any money
ericmuyser: furuknap: it's an exchange and it works well to get people OUT of fiat. otherwise nothing?
Namworld: People can trade IOUs from Issuer X for IOUs from other issuers
Namworld: and then cash in those IOUs at the issuing bank/exchange/whatever
furuknap: And you have to trust that issuer. I understand so far. I just don't understand what it gives me as a normal person, having X of currency Y, beyond the ability to change X of Y to Z of W.
Namworld: Because transfering money from one exchange to another can be hard if you want to avoid fees for example.
furuknap: And that's where it all falls apart for me...
Namworld: Suppose you want for example to withdraw USD from Gox to get USD on BTC-e where BTC is cheaper.
furuknap: Why would I want to transfer my money through an exchange? I just want to buy a cup of coffee or tip the stripper...
Namworld: If both were issuing fiat IOUs on Ripple, people could theorically trade those on Ripple
Namworld: Ripple is not made to make purchases
Namworld: It's a platform to move money around
furuknap: Hang on... Is this just an elaborate currency exchange? That's it?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.02449999 = 0.1225 BTC [+]
Namworld: A currency exchange which skips banks and other things
furuknap: Holy fuck. And we're blowing ourselves over that? Why not just use BTC or LTC or whatever? Geez.
Namworld: Cause people are retarded and use XRPs like a currency
Namworld: When they're meant to be tokens to make the transactions
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0032 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: but I think it's in the grand design to use them as payment
ericmuyser: and there's no reason you can't, it just hasn't been built yet
furuknap: So... One more question... If they are tokens, why does it matter that the founders premined and kept XX% themselves? It's like having a gazillion postage stamps that can be used only to send mail but with no other value?
Namworld: wait what? It's in the grand design? Why would people make payments in XRPs?
ericmuyser: it is built to make transactions, but it's currently only an exchange because no one has adopted it, in the same way no one has adopted litecoin - is litecoin a currency?
furuknap: Litecoin has been adopted! I'm a Litecoin fanboi so don't speak badly of my second mistress.
Namworld: XRPs are already being used as a currency, just like litecoins
ericmuyser: Namworld: because at some point they expect people to have a wallet of xrp of course, the same as btc. but they could make payments from their ripple wallet using btc. either way, you're in ripple world
Namworld: I guess XRP could be used as a default currency
ericmuyser: currency for what? it's being converted as a currency on an exchange but not used in transactions
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.47 = 7.41 BTC [+]
Namworld: Trade your USD IOUs from Bank of America for XRP, use XRP to buy fiat from some other bank. Redeem fiat at 2nd bank.
ericmuyser: that doesn't make it a currency? it's an asset
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00072783 = 8.2973 BTC [+]
furuknap: Yeah, which is exactly what I'm trying to avoid by using BTC.
ericmuyser: whatever you call it, it's not used in transactions directly but that is the plan
Namworld: Could be used as a cement between various IOUs, since it might be hard to find a trader to trade your IOUs for another specific IOU
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 25 @ 2.47 = 61.75 BTC [+]
furuknap: Well, I'm officially, completely, and utterly underwhelmed. Thanks for the explanations, guys.
Namworld: But again, it's kind of absurd... because it skip every darn anti-money laundering stuff. What kind of institution would start issuing IOUs on Ripple they can't track, and let anyone cash them in?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02499 = 0.2249 BTC [+]
furuknap: I think anyone who issues bearer bonds?
ericmuyser: I heard they intend on allowing more strict IOU configuration but I have no source for that
furuknap: But these IOUs are fungible, right?
ericmuyser: furuknap: if an exchange or another person trusts you
ericmuyser: i can go on there and say i have a million dollars or 100 baseball collectors cards, and you can say you trust i have them and what you value them at
mircea_popescu: <Namworld> The issue is, Ripple is just plain stupid... << the more i learn about it the righter this seems
ericmuyser: i would trust my friend has 100 bucks at any point to lend me, so i add him to my trust network
furuknap: Sure, but if I get a $1000 IOU from BofA, I can sell $124 of that without having to get BofA to issue a $124 and a $876 IOU.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024997 = 0.05 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: i trust he has the fiat and when i make the exchange he will give it to me IRL
kakobrekla: yeah like banks trusted that ppl will repay their house loans or smth
Namworld: That's not really because it wouldn't be great to easily move fiat around. It's because fiat holders are AML regulated.
Namworld: Plus replacing fiat for Bitcoin or any alternative seems better.
Namworld: Then we can just send that around
mircea_popescu: ericmuyser the unsurmontable problem is that ripple trust is blind
furuknap: Exactly. So, for anyone other than currency traders and speculators, I can't really see any benefit to Ripple. It doesn't have value beyond the value of a stamp, it doesn't solve any problems that haven't already been solved, and it's just another headache for users when they want to just pay the damn bill at the restaurant.
ericmuyser: mircea_popescu: i do not trust you at all.
mircea_popescu: as far as ripple is concerned, you trust me, end of story.
mircea_popescu: whether i make 100 or 100 bn dollars, you've trusted me already
mircea_popescu: irl trust is always to something. i trust you to suck my cock, but not to bake me a pie.
chad6: any theories for the recent run-up in the price of N
ericmuyser: I would like to see approval requests/convos and whatever else. i trust a friend with 100 but i want to review what i'm trusting him with and for what, if it's a good reason etc.
Namworld: Actually you can trust each issuer for a different amount...
ericmuyser: and i dont want my friend giving away my money to a friend in need
mircea_popescu: Namworld but can you enforce that much is how much they make ?
mircea_popescu: the way it works now, he can make 100bn and just give you 10k of that
mircea_popescu: you don't trusty him with 10k out ofg 100 bn. you trust him wioth 10k total.
ericmuyser: mircea_popescu: you're talking about loans and interest?
Namworld: No, the trust level is just how much money they owe you you can tolerate... not the total they issue... sadly
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i mean, remember that guy issued like 10k btc of debt to dozens of people didn't know about weach other ?
mircea_popescu: ericmuyser i kind of suspect you're not quite qualified to discuss systems.
Namworld: It depends... basically if you trust someone for let's say 1000 USD, you're saying you trust the person not to abuse the issuing IOU feature AND you're willing to risk up to 1000 USD on your belief, as such if the issuer is abusive, you can lose no more than 1000 USD.
Namworld: The problem is no one else recognize these IOUs unless they also trust the same guy.
Namworld: Effectively, only large entity will work at all as issuers
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.55 = 1.65 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but! you are in effect saying you will take X of this person's issuance with no backing.
ericmuyser: or they trust someone who trusts that guy
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.024997 = 0.275 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: then that person they trust is the one taking the loan with the other guy
Namworld: You're saying you trust the issuer to not issue more than what they can back, and that you'd be willing to bet up to X on that.
Namworld: Not that there's no backing... obviously if you're willing to accept X IOUs, it assumes you're also trusting that the issue has backings
mircea_popescu: you're basically providing liquidity, the only sane way this works is if you get a % fee for each guy you trust
ericmuyser: lol you really need to bake fees into it eh
mircea_popescu: if i accept your stuff for 10k btc i expect you to pay me whatever, 2k.
dub: the credit issuer gets a cut right?
Namworld: credit issuer gets nothing. Unless they charge a fee for creating these IOUs
Namworld: and giving them to you to go trade around
dub: I thought ripple just replaces physical credit cards
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 2.47 = 14.82 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: basically there's a reason retards were trusting each other randomly
mircea_popescu: that reason is that you need to get paid. nobody this stupid has any money
dub: you still rely on at least two 'centralised' parties to transact with anotehr person
Namworld: I tried Ripple with the 40k XRP I received for free in one of those giveaways.
Namworld: What I basically did is, trust BitStamp as an issuer for BTC
Namworld: Sell XRP for BitStamp BTC IOUs
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.4778 = 9.9112 BTC [+]
dub: thats not trusting ripple
dub: thats speculating with xrps
Namworld: and BitStamp gave me my BTC which I withdrawn
dub: you didnt transact over ripple
Namworld: I said trusting BitStamp for IOUs
Namworld: Normally, I could have traded these IOUs for another issuer's IOUs
dub: no you traded some 'IOUs' for btc
dub: you didnt use ripple at all
Namworld: I used ripple at the XRP for BTC step
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.02449999 = 0.098 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: and BitStamp is a single node many people trust to exchange on their behalf, and not die
Namworld: WHich is a trade between two users
Namworld: Just as much as exchange an IOU for another IOU
ericmuyser: except for BitStamp IOUs and XRP (baked in)
dub: you got btcs because people are stupid and dont understand ripple
dub: you didnt participate in ripple beyond that
Namworld: yeah... but XRP for BTC IOUs trade works the same way as IOU X for IOU Y trade.
Namworld: I effectievly tried the trading system
Namworld: That XRPs are overvalued is not my problem, and if users want to buy them...
mircea_popescu: the worse part is that not only have they no way to specify da fuck exactly you trust,
dub: you tried the trading system in the same way that selling credit cards is using the credit system
dub: which is, not really at all
mircea_popescu: they tokenize this trust. so basically... instead of having properly identified units you just have one "ripple"
Namworld: The "credit cards" appear in the system and are traded the same way as IOUs...
mircea_popescu: same disaster of commons spiral of death as the price for used cars.
mircea_popescu: Arthur Britto, Stefan Thomas, and David Schwartz are major contributors to Ripple's development, and all played an active role in Bitcoin's early successes.
dub: Namworld: so sure, you can buy and sell stolen credit cards right now, its not really using credit cards though
Namworld: I'm saying I effectively used the trading system.
dub: moneypaks is probably better than CC's for this example
Namworld: Not that I sent money in a transaction
Namworld: I used the intercurrency/IOUs trading orderbooks
Namworld: Of course I could also have sent IOUs or XRPs as a payment transaction
dub: I don't think thats what the system is intended for
mircea_popescu: "Even Roger Ver, a.k.a. "Bitcoin Jesus" has to pay his supply chain to keep the Bitcoin Store running, so he can't use Bitcoins either. Roger Ver doesn't accept Bitcoin, he accepts US dollars from BitPay. If even Bitcoin Jesus isn't interested in Bitcoins themselves, then why not let customers use their local currencies from the get-go and take out the Bitcoin middleman?"
dub: well, not publicly :)
Namworld: Which is technically what I did when I sent BitStamp's their IOUs back. It's sending a payment through the send money feature.
mircea_popescu: complete "i fucking don't understand what bitcoin is so here's a cat with a pancake on its head. just as good"
Namworld: Instead of a good being purchased tho, I got funds redeemed, actual BTCs
Namworld: Ripple is a multicurrency trading platform.
dub: its 'sold' as a way to transfer value between two parties, not transfer value to holders of XRPs
Namworld: I know that... doesn't change the fact I used all the damn system and it works the same way...
Namworld: Not my fault if people give so much value to XRPs
dub: its just convenient that its turned into a system to transfer a lot of BTC to its creators
dub: Namworld: agreed, you didnt use ripple though
mircea_popescu: dub ideally people stupid enough to put btc in get releived of the btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.02449999 = 0.0735 BTC [+]
Namworld: Why do you insist on the fact I didn't use Ripple, I fuckin damn well used it, trading on the orderbook and sending money.
mircea_popescu: Namworld you're uysing a literal definition, he's using a more metaphorical one
dub: Namworld: you didnt send money, you traded your ability to send money for some btcs
Namworld: If people valuate XRPs it becomes a currency traded on the system just as much. Technically, XRPs are designed to trade exactly the same as any other issued currency on the system.
Namworld: Also, I sent money when I sent the BTC IOUs in a send money transaction
Namworld: Except instead of paying someone, I send the payment to the issuer which gave me BTC for the IOUs
dub: anyway I think we can agree ripple is retarded
Namworld: The dumbest thing I've seen in a while.
dub: it might have some merit but its been misused and broken
Namworld: I posted on the thread for my free XRP, didn't understand the system, left my XRP there
Namworld: suddenly, people started buying XRPs for a fuckton of BTC
Namworld: I took the time to figure out the system and use it.
Namworld: Not my fault if XRPs is designed to be a currency like any other IOUs, on top of serving as tokens for transactions.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00072687 = 1.4901 BTC [-]
Namworld: They should just not have allowed trading them and charge like 1 cent per XRP, and use 1 per transaction.
mircea_popescu: i mean, other than getting retards priced out of BTC some playground where they can pretend like they'll matter later.
Namworld: Low cost transactions, they get financed.
Namworld: Well anyway... I got 5 BTC for 40k XRPs... 600 bucks for nothing...
Namworld: except ~1 hour to use the Ripple orderbook to trade XRPs for IOUs and sign up and cashout on BitStamp
Namworld: oh, plus making a post when I saw the Ripple thread
Namworld: I'd do it again anytime. 600 USD/hour is decent.
dub: mircea_popescu: I don't really see it in the current system but I'm not ruling out the utility of a !btc transaction system of some form
mircea_popescu: very theoretical and not particularly related to ripple.
mircea_popescu: anyway. unless i'm missing something fudnamental (which gets less and less likely as time goes by), ripple is the down syndrome suffering child of some people who really really wanted to matter
dub: at some point you realise that prolific masturbation doesnt pay the bills
mircea_popescu: i have my doubts this will pay much in the way of bills
mircea_popescu: my bet is that Namworld's 5 btc is coming from the naive investors trying to push it
kakobrekla: could be just one of those scams that doesnt fail.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024996 = 0.125 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: paypal is a scam and half of the world uses it
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024997 = 0.075 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 2.4778 = 27.2558 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 17 @ 0.02449999 = 0.4165 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.650001 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 4 @ 0.0032 = 0.0128 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024597 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024596 = 0.0492 BTC [-]
[\]: mircea_popescu: what was I handling a year ago?
[\]: I was just keeping track of who was owed what
[\]: and paying out as funds were made available
[\]: I wasn't a partner or anything
[\]: all maybe 40 btc of it
[\]: owed like 1k or something
[\]: shakaru was the name, you had that right
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024997 = 0.075 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4839 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.483997 = 9.936 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.024997 = 0.175 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: [\\\] finally came to me when i saw your dasehs. magic.
aknap3: thought there was something about ripple trust being transitive, so if you trust someone, you are also trusting their judgment of others, but maybe I misunderstood it
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 20 @ 0.0101 = 0.202 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.2449 BTC [-]
aknap3: guess that's pretty much your defect #3
mircea_popescu: it's worse tho, in as you can probably traverse up the tree
mircea_popescu: (start with 100 scam bux, trade for 100 cvasi-scam bux, trade these for 100 not reallt scam bux, cash out 100 bux)
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024997 = 0.125 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: pigeons you want to give that a read say if i've fucked up anything ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024998 = 0.125 BTC [+]
[\]: sounds like you should give him some ripples
mircea_popescu: [\\\] he's the only person afaik who seriously looked at the thing
Namworld: To be fair on point #2, the issuer doesn't get anything either out of the issued IOUs. It's not like it requires you to lend them money. It's more like "pay to the bearer X silver/gold coins" IOUs, like early banks did, before state money.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024997 = 0.075 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02456 = 0.0491 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02455 = 0.0491 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02455 = 0.221 BTC [-]
Namworld: Where those paper IOUs are practical to go trade around without the need to burden yourself with carrying money all around
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.0245 = 0.686 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0245 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 46 @ 0.0245 = 1.127 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024145 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0252 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the fact that his debt is accepted is exactly giving him money.
Namworld: Those IOUs are no different than the balance at the exchange, which if it is showing 200 BTC, it means they owe you 200 BTC. They don't pay interest either on that balance. Same for Ripple IOUs.
mircea_popescu: as far as i know, if your bank is showing 200 dollars in your account
Namworld: The same apply for both thing, and often the trusted issuers are an exchange (at least for now)
Namworld: The difference is you expect the bank to invest your money round and make money on that.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.024998 = 0.1 BTC [+]
dub: presumably the entry/exit points to the network charge for the service?
Namworld: So you wouldn't deposit money in MtGox because they don't pay interest on your balance?
mircea_popescu: Namworld i wouldn't deposit money in mtgox because the mtgox risk requires a premium
mircea_popescu: if they credited my acct with ~300 bux for every 100 deposited i'd consider it.
Namworld: Well it's pretty much the same. Bitstamp is an issuer on Ripple. You either have a number on BitStamp or on Ripple of have X of currency Y owed to you by them.
Namworld: So typically people wouldn't expect interest.
mircea_popescu: but! when i accept this, i undertake someone's CP risk
mircea_popescu: to rephrase : do you have an inkling of an idea what the 2008 meltdown would have looked like if indeed repo was free ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.5505 = 1.6515 BTC [+]
Namworld: Well history shows people are trusting 3rd parties with their funds all the time, expecting nothing in return.
Namworld: Other than being able to request their funds back
mircea_popescu: the developers stupidly assume this happens because never before have there been on the face of the earth genius developers to make a ripple.
bdk_kluge: They expect gains in terms of service. In the US, interest-bearing demand accounts are practically dead. They pay out in service, usually ~1.5-3% of deposits on overhead.
mircea_popescu: the real reason however is that the system doesn't work
mircea_popescu: and will be raped in the mouth just as soon as someone cares to.
Namworld: dub, pretty much every exchange. They won't give you anything for entrusting them your funds
dub: they give you access to a market for one
Namworld: Plus they'll even charge you when you do stuff with your funds on their system
mircea_popescu: anyway, moral of the story here being, "don't start revolutionary financial shit without an actual financial mind available to suckle on the cock of"
Namworld: Well yeah... access to market is the only thing that is given in exchange
dub: its kinda of an important service
dub: its not like you would be handing them money without the intent to use the market
cole_albon: mirce_popescu what do you mean by " system doesn't work"
Namworld: As for #3, I think you got your facts wrong...
Namworld: I might be mistaken... but I didn't notice any such chain trust effect
[\]: there's a reason why its called ripple
Namworld: One BTC issued by Weexchange.co is different from 1 BTC issued by BitStamp. If you have 1 BTC issued by BitStamp, you can't trade it for someone wanting a Weexchange.co BTC
mircea_popescu: cole_albon no, i meant the naive stone age "free rate repo" system
Namworld: Well I didn't notice any kind of mixing...
Namworld: Maybe if I had a more complex trust network...
mircea_popescu: how did the tradefortress guy manage to cause all that havoc
Namworld: He shows that he can have a 1 billion BTC balance by issuing it.
Namworld: But no one will accept it if they don't trust tradefortress as an issuer
Namworld: So people must be careful about the issuers they trust? If you decide to trust some random guy for 10000 BTC and take his BTC... of course Ripple will show you have 10000 BTC, but try to trade those with anyone and no one takes them.
mircea_popescu: listen, the way i find out what the president of the republic ate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1620 @ 0.00072783 = 1.1791 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00072784 = 14.1929 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: is that his cook knows, and the cook fucks this girl on the side who's owned by this guy who owes me a carrot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11580 @ 0.00072845 = 8.4355 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is how things work. social graphs degrade towards the edge
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 15 @ 0.000857 = 0.0129 BTC [-]
dub: this is another one of those Namworld conversations where we wax on for hours about how when one looks up they find the sky and shockingly upon looking down observe the ground
Namworld: That's not how I understand and witnessed Ripple to work.
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 4 @ 0.00256 = 0.0102 BTC [+]
Namworld: From the giveaway thread, as I said.
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 4 @ 0.000658 = 0.0026 BTC [-]
dub: from the ripple teat
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 3 @ 0.0151 = 0.0453 BTC [-]
Namworld: Or any sub party assigned with the task of distributing the ripples around
mircea_popescu: were these 5 btc put in by the user you got your ripples from /
Namworld: I trusted Bitstamp as an issuer. Then traded these XRPs for BitStamp issued BTC IOUs
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024146 = 0.0483 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: thus there fore wtf you on about. it's exactly how you witnessed it to work
Namworld: But it doesn't work like you said in #3
Namworld: You can't randomly end up with USD issued by your boss's little girl
mircea_popescu: you took Y's lunch in exchange for X's scribbled paper.
Namworld: XRP is exclusively issued by Ripple
Namworld: So X's scribbled paper is Ripple
mircea_popescu: you don't even know who the fuck y is you have his btc
mircea_popescu: so then how exactly is this diff from the guy in the cab.
Namworld: In #3 the guy in the cab realizes suddenly he's holding valueless USD issued by a little girl
Namworld: Which is impossible if he never directly trusted said person as an issuer
Namworld: He didn't trust the little girl
Namworld: Issuer's X BTC is not mixable with Issuer's Y BTC
mircea_popescu: if you were able to take out y's 5 btc in exchange for x's 40k ripples
mircea_popescu: so, little girl takes out 5 btc for her dad's 40k ripples.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.483996 = 4.968 BTC [-]
Namworld: That's not how it work... the only way the little girl can take the 5 BTC is if she traded something for it.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.483997 = 7.452 BTC [+]
dub: I think you're talking about different things, Namworld is still talking about some idiot paying 5btc for his ripples while mircea_popescu is talking about how ripple works
Namworld: Either she's holding IOUs accepted by someone else (like Bank of America USD or whatever) and someone wants those IOUs in exchange of the BTC, or someone must trust her directly to issue IOUs
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024994 = 0.05 BTC [+]
dub: Namworld didnt extract 5btc from ripple, he extracted 5btc from the idiot via bitstamp
Namworld: User uses BitStamp as a gateway. He gives bitstamp 5 BTC, which then gives that person a 5 BTC IOU issued by BitStamp.
dub: idiot gives 5btc to YOU, you give him 40k xrp
dub: ripple had nothing to do with it
dub: bitstamp matched the trades
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024995 BTC [+]
Namworld: That's what I'm saying, for fuck sake, when did I included ripple in all this?
dub: you were just talking about gateways and IOUs in the last sentance
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.024996 = 0.6249 BTC [+]
Namworld: Mr. Idiot gives BitStamp 5 BTC. BitStamp gives the user a 5 BTC on Ripple, issued by BitStamp.
Namworld: I decide to trust BitStamp's IOUs
jborkl: ripple did not create any value, or take any effort to create.therefore in a proof of work/effort concept of monetary supply is worthless
Namworld: Then I proceed to check the XRP to BitStamp BTC orderbook
Namworld: I see someone is offering 5 BTC BitStamp IOU for 40k XRP
Namworld: Ripple executes the trade, I get the guy's IOUs, he gets my XRP
mircea_popescu: Namworld well ok, so then you are copiously unqualified to discuss how ripple works lol
Namworld: I then send BitStamp IOUs to BitStamp, including my BitStamp account # in some field
Namworld: Wheres BitStamp redeems their own IOUs
jborkl: why i dont want your IOU for a cheeseburger, thanks anyway
Namworld: How is it limited to how BitStamp works?
jborkl: and ripples are destroyed in each transaction
jborkl: that defies the laws of physics
Namworld: [22:53] <Namworld> I decide to trust BitStamp's IOUs
Namworld: [22:53] <dub> you withdrew in BTC
Namworld: I can't get BitStamp's IOUs or withdraw anything without trusting BitStamp IOUs
jborkl: I read on their website they just go poof
jborkl: annd do not go anywher
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 129 @ 0.0252 = 3.2508 BTC [+]
jborkl: conservation of matter mass ftw
dub: I think that scene from Dumb and Dumber explains ripple best
jborkl: the one where he is pissing on his cause it is on fire?
dub: jborkl: well, yeah the whole movie is pretty much it
jborkl: lol, or selling the dead parrot to the blind kid?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.46 = 7.38 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 317 @ 0.025212 = 7.9922 BTC [+]
Namworld: Guess I'll have to go back to Ripple and mess around, testing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.02501 = 1.2505 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02450003 BTC [-]
Namworld: Ok, so I have purchased 0.01 BTC from Weexchange BTC orderbook and 0.01 BTC from Bitstamp BTC orderbook. I had 0.02 BTC in my account in balance summary. I then proceeded to place a 1 BTC sale order on the Weexchange BTC orderbook.
Namworld: Only 0.01 BTC shows up on the orderbook, regardless of the account holding 0.02 BTC and the order being for 1 BTC
Namworld: Because I only have 0.01 fucking Weexchange BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 26 @ 0.0242 = 0.6292 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0241 = 0.6025 BTC [-]
Namworld: The various issuers' fund are not mixable...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.2439 = 1.2195 BTC [-]
Namworld: and although my balance shows 0.02 BTC, if I go on trust tab...
Namworld: I have an indication of how much I hold of which issuers
Namworld: Each issuer's IOUs are currencies of their own...
Namworld: As far as Ripple is concerned...
ThickAsThieves: i dunno what aspect is borked but ive seen him discussing
Namworld: Well that's somewhat irrelevant
Namworld: It was just to show an issuer's currency is not mixable with someone's else
cole_albon: I think the speed of ripple transactions makes it superior to bitcoin as a payment system.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8220 @ 0.00072845 = 5.9879 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00073088 = 16.5544 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.483997 BTC [+]
Namworld: But it's centralized as of now...
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 5 @ 0.0032 = 0.016 BTC [+]
dub: Namworld: where was that refuted?
dub: Namworld: its obviously not acutally transfering btc, its just a distributed credit ledger
Namworld: of course not. Just an exchange to trade credit from various issuers
Namworld: I haven't really used the payment system
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 39 @ 0.0241 = 0.9399 BTC [-]
louong: so liberty reserve just got taken out?
louong: go to libertyreserve.com
Namworld: oh, I see what mircea meant about the chain stuff
Namworld: Yeah, looks like the sending payment system does work that way
Namworld: So i guess the payment system is borked, but not the trading platform
Namworld: So as long as you stick to the trading platform alone...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 17 @ 0.0241 = 0.4097 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 10 @ 0.19 = 1.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.1939 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.483997 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.545 = 1.635 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.025 = 0.1 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024997 = 0.05 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.489 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00075331 = 5.3485 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 22 @ 0.024997 = 0.5499 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.483997 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.4898 = 4.9796 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.024997 = 0.225 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.024207 = 0.1937 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 48 @ 0.109988 = 5.2794 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 6 @ 0.109989 = 0.6599 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 13 @ 0.2439 = 3.1707 BTC [-]
bdk_kluge: Wait... Who were the jerk-offs who made the metal coins and put a nominal dollar amount on them?
Chaaang-Noi: anyway LR is dead. more people will use BTC
Chaaang-Noi: kludge i know who you are talking about, that was liberty dollar
Chaaang-Noi: libert reserve is like web money os something
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 85 @ 0.009523 = 0.8095 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 10 @ 0.009522 = 0.0952 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00952 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 7 @ 0.01018 = 0.0713 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 13 @ 0.01019 = 0.1325 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: Bringing up kiddie porn & drug trafficking sources is kind of ridiculous in the article.
bdk_kluge: Lord only knows how many rapecoins, cokecoins, and murdercoins are in our wallets...!
bdk_kluge: I'm still shocked by - who was it -- HSBC in Mexico with the drug cartels - or was it RBS? Now I have to look it up again...
louong: welcome to one hour ago
ThickAsThieves: Namworld needs a new way to store his ill-gotten money
ThickAsThieves: I had a HSBC credit card a long time ago, and one day they sent me this offer that essentially would result in a much higher APR through some scheme
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.194 = 0.97 BTC [+]
dub: HSBC are crooked as fuck
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.451011 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: the black market is so huge, odds are 1/4 of all money is dirty in some way, if not more
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.194999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4899 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.195 = 0.78 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.489999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6247 @ 0.00075171 = 4.6959 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.024993 = 0.2499 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3639 @ 0.00075171 = 2.7355 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 13 @ 0.024997 = 0.325 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.195 = 0.975 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02479 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024997 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 290 @ 0.0032 = 0.928 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 30 @ 0.00321 = 0.0963 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3130 @ 0.00075097 = 2.3505 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1434 @ 0.00075331 = 1.0802 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00075715 = 2.0064 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.489 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 24 @ 0.024997 = 0.5999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 2 @ 0.01019 = 0.0204 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 13 @ 0.024996 = 0.3249 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024996 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 2.49 = 24.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.000857 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.195 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.02505 = 0.0752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2832 @ 0.0007609 = 2.1549 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2068 @ 0.00076528 = 1.5826 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00901 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 5 @ 0.009 = 0.045 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 13 @ 2.49 = 32.37 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.199 = 0.398 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.000858 = 0.0043 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 2.49 = 27.39 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00075789 = 3.7895 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3786 @ 0.00075789 = 2.8694 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0249 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.452101 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 2.7494 = 8.2482 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.488999 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: That TipTopGem guy's in Thailand, I believe.
Chaaang-Noi: yeah, he is the one selling, so i want to ask someone else :)
Chaaang-Noi: trying to get a value on something he is selling, but i think its just way too high
bdk_kluge: Oh. I don't know jack shit about diamonds, but he designed a ring for me something like a year ago and was pretty great throughout. I don't think he liked our design choices, though, lol
Chaaang-Noi: but i dont know, the size is large, but the quality is low so i dont even know
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 2.489 = 24.89 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: lol... why even bother including the ultra-subsidized shipping cost?
bdk_kluge: Ohhhh... TBD... different from converted THB.
Chaaang-Noi: i just looked up the value, its only worth 10k usd :(
Chaaang-Noi: why would he try to sell a 10k usd car for 20k usd?
Chaaang-Noi: people are going to ahve to be less stupid if this is to take off
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.452101 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4521 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.452002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.452 = 4.904 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.45 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.442113 = 4.8842 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024996 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 29 @ 0.024997 = 0.7249 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.024998 = 0.15 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: on lazor printers, ink is not needed to be replaced correct?
Chaaang-Noi: like if i use it once a month it will be fine?
Chaaang-Noi: i got the ink jet and i did not use it enough and the ink always dried out, was crap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00076527 = 7.6527 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2830 @ 0.00076528 = 2.1657 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: If it's just powder, I'd assume you want it dry :p
Chaaang-Noi: buying new ink to print 5 pages is soo fail
bdk_kluge: Yeah... I have an Epson inkjet. It "runs out of ink" every time I want to print something -.-
Scrat: that's the deal with every fucking inkjet on the market
Scrat: they also don't seem to last for more than a year
Chaaang-Noi: but what about low end black and white lazor printers?
Scrat: they're better, but low end usually means that they'll break often
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2689 @ 0.00076528 = 2.0578 BTC [+]
maz0: you printing paper wallets?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.02499 = 0.125 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024997 = 0.05 BTC [+]
maz0: man seems like a waste. thats what I use the printer in work for
maz0: when no one's looking :)
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.024997 = 0.25 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: and i would rather waste $100 on a printer than lose $100,000 in btc
maz0: ah well, if your dealing with that amount then...
fiat500: Chaaang-Noi: i have a laser printer here that i use once or twice a year
fiat500: i think it cost $40 or something ridiculously low like that
Chaaang-Noi: fiat500 and the ink will not dry out or whatever?
fiat500: you get like 22k pages or something
fiat500: then you have to replace the toner
Chaaang-Noi: i think im goint o pick one up $50 to $100 is worth the risk
Chaaang-Noi: my ink jet the ink on the heads just dried up cuz i did not use it enough
Chaaang-Noi: so i had to buy new ink each time i wanted to print, was fail
fiat500: havent used an inkjet since 2001
Chaaang-Noi: honestly that is about the same for me maybe 2003
Chaaang-Noi: i just dont want to go to the copy shop anymore esp btc stuff
fiat500: lol yeah dont print your paper wallet at a kinko's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10050 @ 0.00075593 = 7.5971 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.025 = 0.05 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.46 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.3 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.3627 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 2 @ 0.363 = 0.726 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1352 @ 0.00076098 = 1.0288 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 151 @ 0.0246 = 3.7146 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.45 = 4.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 18 @ 0.024997 = 0.4499 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2827 @ 0.00075809 = 2.1431 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.7494 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 2.7495 = 5.499 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 2.75 = 13.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.46 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00076528 = 9.8721 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.459 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1214 @ 0.00075973 = 0.9223 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 16 @ 0.024997 = 0.4 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0247 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.0247 = 0.0494 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024996 = 0.05 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024996 = 0.075 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 39 @ 0.024997 = 0.9749 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00075973 = 7.0655 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.44 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00075992 = 3.2836 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15038 @ 0.00075973 = 11.4248 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00075973 = 3.2828 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.024996 = 0.1 BTC [-]
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}
assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}
assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 128.29000, Best ask: 129.37234, Bid-ask spread: 1.08234, Last trade: 128.29000, 24 hour volume: 47920.23401049, 24 hour low: 127.80000, 24 hour high: 133.98000, 24 hour vwap: 130.65310
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 9 @ 0.000857 = 0.0077 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024801 = 0.0496 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0248 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0247 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4145 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4144 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4143 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4142 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.414 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4122 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4051 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.405 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.402 = 7.206 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 4 @ 0.00335 = 0.0134 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.6001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 54 @ 0.025 = 1.35 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0246 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0245 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0245 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0245 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.024372 = 1.2186 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.024372 = 0.6093 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.024371 = 1.2186 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.02505 = 1.2525 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02436 = 0.2436 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.024301 = 0.0972 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.024301 = 0.1944 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00075558 = 2.0401 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00075492 = 6.3413 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00075421 = 0.9805 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.000858 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.02505 = 0.501 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.0247 = 0.0988 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 30 @ 0.02505 = 0.7515 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.0247 = 0.1482 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024302 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.109989 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 32 @ 0.0250999 = 0.8032 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 129.80501, Best ask: 130.39999, Bid-ask spread: 0.59498, Last trade: 130.39999, 24 hour volume: 46859.30230998, 24 hour low: 127.80000, 24 hour high: 133.98000, 24 hour vwap: 130.72146
furuknap: OMG IT'S CRASHING! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! SELL, SELL, SELL!
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024888 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.024302 = 0.1701 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024301 = 0.0729 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.02505 = 0.1002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.437999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.438 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.0245 = 0.49 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 54 @ 0.0243 = 1.3122 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.02425 = 0.2425 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 21 @ 0.02420001 = 0.5082 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 155 @ 0.02420001 = 3.751 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 40 @ 0.0242 = 0.968 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.444 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 200 @ 0.025 = 5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.0251 = 2.51 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.444 = 4.888 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0251 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0251 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.444 = 4.888 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00251225 = 2.5123 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 225 @ 0.025 = 5.625 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.025 = 0.225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.025 = 0.05 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11341 @ 0.00075833 = 8.6002 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4061 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.406 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.35 = 0.7 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 80 @ 0.0249 = 1.992 BTC [-]
fiat500: what is AM doing halving their hashrate like that? if its intentional thats one thing - if its a hardware flaw thats a problem
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 533 @ 0.01019 = 5.4313 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.0102 = 0.102 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 35 @ 0.0102 = 0.357 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 250 @ 0.0102 = 2.55 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 21 @ 0.01021 = 0.2144 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 40 @ 0.0245 = 0.98 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 5 @ 0.01023 = 0.0512 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024147 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.024147 = 0.1449 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1500 @ 0.01025 = 15.375 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 35 @ 0.01025 = 0.3588 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.01025 = 0.1025 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1000 @ 0.0103 = 10.3 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.01035 = 0.1035 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4112 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.411 = 4.822 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.41 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.411 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024146 = 0.0483 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 66 @ 0.024145 = 1.5936 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.41 BTC [-]
gribble: Error: "e" is not a valid command.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.41 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 80 @ 0.0249 = 1.992 BTC [-]
fiat500: ThickAsThieves: im having the hardest time getting btc into my bitfunder
fiat500: wex completely choked on my signup email
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.414 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 2.43 = 12.15 BTC [+]
fiat500: yeah it completely choked :P
fiat500: havent been able to get past signup
fiat500: ukto is looking into it anyway, fingers crossed
deadweasel: "“Budovsky’s businesses in Costa Rica apparently were financed by using money from child pornography websites and drug trafficking,”
deadweasel: he probably ran a tor relay once so they are saying he funded his busiess via cp
Chaaang-Noi: seems to me that child porn and drug trafficing could theroriticly be done in usd
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0244 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: cuz a drug dealer and a pedo uses usd , we should make it illegal
Chaaang-Noi: if i was predident of the world, i would use drones to kill off people like that reporter
Chaaang-Noi: all we need is to find one pedo making a drug purchas and we can kill of fiat right?
deadweasel: lol, i think you should be able to pick up a drone online in the next 10 years
Chaaang-Noi: pretty sure i would be called a terrorist by many jounilist ffor killing off stupid journilitz
Chaaang-Noi: anyway i was just kidding, im all about free speach and free prees but what that guy said was just ignorant
Chaaang-Noi: <fiat500> cute COG divs yeah, but you buy goc for its potential, not its current divs. they are honestly small next to AM
ThickAsThieves: mircea_popescu, I'm gonna be one of those people to thank you for prying my eyes open after our conversation about AM yesterday
ThickAsThieves: AM's path must be to control and even insitigate the total commoditization of mining hardware
ThickAsThieves: while sorting a way to transcend the traditonal mining market
ThickAsThieves: like custom ASIC design, or government contracts for custom decryption or whatever
ThickAsThieves: which makes it more likely that any notable competitor of theirs would have to also be there
Chaaang-Noi: i bought into AM just cuz they were in china
fiat500: Chaaang-Noi: at this scale they shouldnt be paying divs out, they should be reinvesting and trying to get their hands on as much hardware as possible, soon
Chaaang-Noi: right now they have shit loads of btc to spend
Chaaang-Noi: fiat500 i agree, but they are buying lots right now
fiat500: the more they wait, the longer it will take for them to get started
fiat500: their only hope right now is to cash out big before the nethash skyrockets
fiat500: corollary: shut up and spend my money!
fiat500: anyone know how many USB miners were sold?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.407 = 7.221 BTC [-]
ericmuyser: fiat500: but i dont think the divs are much to them really
fiat500: ericmuyser: they are even less to us
ThickAsThieves: because HP didnt want to the PC business after they got it
ericmuyser: "i want 0.02 divs!" *buys in and loses 0.8 from the drop*
Chaaang-Noi: <ericmuyser> "i want 0.02 divs!" *buys in and loses 0.8 from the drop* you will be even in a month :)
fiat500: ThickAsThieves: its a bit of a stretch though, HP built hardware that people could do work/play on
fiat500: a 300MH/s usb stick that generates < $1/month isnt that
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.024146 = 0.2656 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.024145 = 0.2173 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: he merely helped me clarify my desires for them as a company
ThickAsThieves: I was already caring less about the growth of their mining farm
ThickAsThieves: selling hardware at the highest quantity and cheaper than competitors is the real cashcow
Chaaang-Noi: but we more or less picked this path like 2 months ago
Chaaang-Noi: once auctions were 70 btc plus we were like fuck.. lets do this...
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4072 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.407 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.10997 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00075421 = 4.5253 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1800 @ 0.00251225 = 4.5221 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.43 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.02450001 = 0.049 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.02450001 = 0.147 BTC [-]
orkaa: it's not that perfect it would seem
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.02435 = 0.1218 BTC [+]
fiat500: fuck em anyway, charging 6%, what is that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 200 @ 0.0245 = 4.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.0245 = 0.098 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00075421 = 0.0754 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00075268 = 7.4515 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 33 @ 0.02432 = 0.8026 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.43 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02431 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 460 @ 0.0242 = 11.132 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2096 @ 0.00251225 = 5.2657 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 99 @ 0.0242 = 2.3958 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0242 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.02415 = 0.0966 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 21 @ 0.0245 = 0.5145 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 26 @ 0.024145 = 0.6278 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02412 = 0.2412 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.02412 = 0.1206 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 17 @ 0.0241 = 0.4097 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4385 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4448 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 45 @ 0.0243 = 1.0935 BTC [+]
gribble: There are currently 13709258 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 18594766.4567 USD in total. | Data vintage: 18.2833 seconds
gribble: There are currently 104685.69 bitcoins offered at or under 1.11111111111e+17 USD, worth 6.99157250609e+13 USD in total. | Data vintage: 25.4900 seconds
aknap3: ;;eightball sex with sister?
aknap3: well, it's random right?
aknap3: ;;eightball sex with myself?
error4733: the ghost of satoshi is on gribble
error4733: kakobreka : yes, drama of the day :)
error4733: ;;eightball LR is down, it's good for BTC ?
error4733: yep, is mad ! so eric you still have a chance
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1075 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1072 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 27 @ 0.0245 = 0.6615 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.02450001 = 0.2205 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 329 @ 0.0249 = 8.1921 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 36 @ 0.0249 = 0.8964 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.262 BTC [-]
deadweasel: Chaaang-Noi, where do you pick up cog shares?
deadweasel: i dunno, i figure it's the ltc of mining, but I was gonna take a look
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 58 @ 0.0241 = 1.3978 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.0241 = 0.6025 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.435 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 41 @ 0.02405 = 0.9861 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: it wont get better than AM ever imo but it was undervalued when i bought in massivly at .115
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.0242 = 2.42 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.02425 = 2.425 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.0243 = 2.43 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: i think it might peak near 1 btc each if his preorders hit at the right time
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.199 = 0.398 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.199 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 18 @ 0.02425 = 0.4365 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.43 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.435 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.44 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02405 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.02425 = 0.097 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.445 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.44 BTC [-]
furuknap: I need to be proven wrong again... Give me your best estimate on network increase (in percent) per month over the next 12 months on average.
furuknap: Impossibe to give me your best?
furuknap: Did I say I wanted your best or good?
furuknap: We know it's not going to be 10000% or 1% so it's somewhere in between.
ThickAsThieves: that gives you an easy number to make a formula with too
furuknap: And is that just a complete random number or do you think it is based on at least some rational thought?
furuknap: Not looking for formulas right now, and difficulty really isn't part of that equation at all :-)
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 13355540.2437 based on data since last change | 12915952.6158 based on data for last three days
furuknap: Sure, and some weeks, it may be a bit lower, but doesn't really matter, I'm just picking some random scenarios for an article.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.42 BTC [-]
furuknap: Actually, since 10% means 20% per month, 5% would be better, but I don't want to be too unrealistic.
furuknap: What was the previous increase btc? Just to have as a point of reference...
furuknap: How much of an increase was the last retarget in percent?
gribble: Current Blocks: 237893 | Current Difficulty: 1.2153411709775832E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 239903 | Next Difficulty In: 2010 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 13355540.2437 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.89128
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02405 = 0.2165 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 89 @ 0.02401 = 2.1369 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024 = 0.048 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.415 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.412 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.411003 = 4.822 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.40782 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.40782 = 4.8156 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4077 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00075389 = 0.0754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1210 @ 0.00075389 = 0.9122 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.55 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 19 @ 0.0244 = 0.4636 BTC [+]
furuknap: Didn't I read that ASICMiner can put 1TH online for around $10K?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.0244 = 0.1464 BTC [+]
fiat500: why would they do that if they are selling 10GH/s miners for $5k?
furuknap: They're only abale to do that because nobody else is shipping. Will you still pay $5K for a 10GH/s in one year?
fiat500: no, i wouldnt even do that today
furuknap: Right. So either they stop mining or they pay some sum of money per TH, and I believe that number to be $10K.
furuknap: I just need a number to illustrate reinvestment cost to maintain hashrate, but my Google-foo couldn't find a friedcat mention of that number.
furuknap: It's not terribly important, though.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00075389 = 1.6209 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02401 = 0.2401 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024006 = 0.12 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.024005 = 0.2641 BTC [-]
fiat500: topace: does havelock have a (pull) API?
trzu: anyone got an email by crypto-trade?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.409 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.409 BTC [+]
fiat500: im looking for an alternative to bitvps
ThickAsThieves: no point hacking yourself without taking some coins with you
trzu: they are worse than bfl
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 97 @ 0.0151 = 1.4647 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.015 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01392 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 10 @ 0.01361 = 0.1361 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 300 @ 0.013005 = 3.9015 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 50 @ 0.013004 = 0.6502 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4399 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.024749 = 0.099 BTC [+]
furuknap: Two hours left of the crypto-trade deadline... Which number is this, the sixth?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4375 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4377 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.02434 = 0.0974 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4375 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4375 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 2.4377 = 21.9393 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4399 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 27 @ 2.44 = 65.88 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.54551 = 5.4551 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 11 @ 0.54551 = 6.0006 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.5455 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.5452 = 1.0904 BTC [-]
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}
assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}
assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4349 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.435 = 9.74 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 29 @ 0.024749 = 0.7177 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.199 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00335 = 0.0101 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02434 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00075268 = 0.0753 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00075266 = 7.1503 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.435 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.567999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4091 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 17 @ 2.409 = 40.953 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02435 = 0.2435 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02439 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02439 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 14 @ 0.02439 = 0.3415 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.199 = 0.796 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 9 @ 0.1999 = 1.7991 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.199998 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 31 @ 0.00335 = 0.1039 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00075266 = 1.4301 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1063 @ 0.00075255 = 0.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.02439 = 0.1463 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00075201 = 5.3393 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00075155 = 4.7348 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.199999 = 0.4 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 13 @ 0.2 = 2.6 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.02475 = 0.2228 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02475 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 21 @ 0.0248 = 0.5208 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.0248 = 0.124 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.02439 = 0.0732 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.0244 = 0.122 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 474 @ 0.0248 = 11.7552 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4101 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 2.41 = 12.05 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.425 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 131 @ 0.0248 = 3.2488 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.567999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 170 @ 0.02485 = 4.2245 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4347 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 500 @ 0.0249 = 12.45 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4347 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.4348 = 9.7392 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 600 @ 0.02491 = 14.946 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 2.4348 = 14.6088 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 485 @ 0.02494 = 12.0959 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 2.435 = 12.175 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 252 @ 0.02492 = 6.2798 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.435 = 4.87 BTC [+]
tbzu: neotrix failed again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 7 @ 0.0249 = 0.1743 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 2.435 = 19.48 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: furuknap, while you mentioned repeatedly in text that AM sells hardware and 100TH bonds do not have that benefit, you exclude hardware sales from your outlook numbers. This is misleading, no?
furuknap: No, it's explained just befoire the numbers.
furuknap: I can't control what people do. I can only give them the numbers.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.0244 = 0.366 BTC [+]
furuknap: Good point, I'll add a reminder.
ThickAsThieves: because you also argue that the stock of 100TH would be very profitable
ThickAsThieves: yet you dont prove whther it is actually MORE profitable than AM
furuknap: It is more profitable in a two-year timeframe with all the assumptions coming true. If any of them don't then all hell breaks loose...
furuknap: Not according to the numbers I've run. In 2 years, the bond will have repaid itself many times over and still produce small (ie above US Treasury, but just barely) profits.
gribble: Current Blocks: 237919 | Current Difficulty: 1.2153411709775832E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 239903 | Next Difficulty In: 1984 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 14 hours, 27 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11618514.1606 | Estimated Percent Change: -4.40121
furuknap: Cool, I'll recalculate with -4.4 instead. We'll be rich in a few days.
furuknap: The difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, no?
furuknap: So yeah, there are a few percents off.
dub: would be nice if there was per thread ignore on shitcointalk
dub: I'm going to end up with everyone ignored at this rate
furuknap: Still, 20% is quite high and likley not sustainable.
dub: trying to keep up with actual AM updates
fiat500: ^ what a horrific headline
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.0249 = 0.498 BTC [-]
furuknap: Note: Please remember that these numbers carry with them certain assumptions. These assumptions may or may not hold true, but are required to make any analysis possible. Make sure you evaluate the assumptions and whether they fit your own research.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0244 BTC [-]
furuknap: Well, disclaimer added, for what it's worth.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4399 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0249 = 0.6225 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.2447 BTC [+]
fiat500: ThickAsThieves: what does smiguel mean by this "Blockchain.info network percentage * total network hashrate"
fiat500: ThickAsThieves: he pmmed me (not sure if he copied you on it), and he says he gets the solomining rate that way
fiat500: hard to estimate hashrate from solved blocks
fiat500: erm, im assuming they do, at the very least it must be possible to parse
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.4399 = 7.3197 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.02459 = 0.1475 BTC [+]
furuknap: [00:45] <fiat500> hard to estimate hashrate from solved blocks <- Just make something up. That seems to be the way most others do it.
fiat500: its pretty darn impressive tho, that there is a long sequence of blocks solved by ASICminer themselves
fiat500: ThickAsThieves: so +/- 100%?
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 12157712.0899 based on data since last change | 13059194.2661 based on data for last three days
gribble: Current Blocks: 237925 | Current Difficulty: 1.2153411709775832E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 239903 | Next Difficulty In: 1978 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 20 hours, 15 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12157712.0899 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.03538
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 2.4399 = 12.1995 BTC [+]
furuknap: OMG, it's up from -4.4 to 0.03 in just 30 minutes. At this rate, it will be 7905 PH/s in a year! We're all gonna die!
fiat500: and difficulty predictions
furuknap: It's not a lie if I believe it!
fiat500: jurov: u might be in for a rough ride
fiat500: the july one, june ur fine
jurov: i'll prolly scam TAT then... he has too much money already :P
furuknap: Damn, I want to short some shares that aren't shortable.
jurov: yes, but you expect me to give you more back... if diff goes over 19m
furuknap: Crypto-trade extended deadline by two hours. One hour left.
furuknap: Why to tech people handle business stuff? They wouldn't want a BA to come in to their data center and start mucking around. Why do they assume that it's OK for them to try it at business?
fiat500: because business is common sense
furuknap: It's not Bitcoin, it's everywhere.
furuknap: "Yeah, but we gots skillz". No you don't. You're trained monkeys, just like me. We suck at business and need extensive training to succeed.
fiat500: there are tech people who are colossal morons however
jurov: we know we're morons
fiat500: im the biggest one there is
jurov: "failure to fail" is better
fiat500: if this were the real world, their stock price would have plumetted three times over by now
ThickAsThieves: if this were the real world no one would have let them IPO
fiat500: but in this fairy tale land of cryptocoin, investors have one of two things
fiat500: i havent sold my shares of crypto-coin, i wonder what that makes me
jurov: you can exchange them for my ziggap shares :)
furuknap: Yeah, I hold a few too. I have a nagging feeling this may be my first loss this month :-(
furuknap: Well, technically, I still had a few SDICE to unload at a slight loss, but I had written that off before the whole US thing burst.
KingCoin: yeah canadian gov says bitcoin exchanges are okay
furuknap: Yeah... Well, the problem is, I don't understand the exchange business much so I find it extremely hard to evaluate shares. I bought a few more in support of Neotrix than from a hope of profit.
KingCoin: and virtex charges like 3% fees to start
fiat500: 23:17 < KingCoin> and virtex charges like 3% fees to start
fiat500: makes me wonder why people still use them?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.024895 = 0.0996 BTC [-]
KingCoin: cause for canadians its the quickest option
fiat500: but canada has like 2 people total
KingCoin: well look at their volume last month
fiat500: not bad, 700btc daily volume
KingCoin: the site is not that great though
KingCoin: but you can get some good deals
KingCoin: libertybit.ca is, but volume is low
KingCoin: another canadian exchange will open and people will move there
fiat500: (not the fees, i mean market-wise)
KingCoin: i want to start a candian exchange
furuknap: Geez, people are bidding ฿25 for a single Jalapeno in hand.
furuknap: <jurov> we know we're morons <- He did.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02459 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5937 @ 0.0007525 = 4.4676 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6263 @ 0.00075257 = 4.7133 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0244 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02436 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.0244 = 0.2196 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 60 @ 0.0243 = 1.458 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.02435 = 0.1948 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.02411 = 0.0723 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 23 @ 0.0241 = 0.5543 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 131.12800, Best ask: 131.75700, Bid-ask spread: 0.62900, Last trade: 131.12800, 24 hour volume: 17214.88181096, 24 hour low: 128.20000, 24 hour high: 133.50000, 24 hour vwap: 130.93016
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02459 BTC [+]
taub: anyone else think mtgox fees are still way too high?