assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01992 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.635 = 6.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.5094 = 2.0376 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.78 BTC [+]
smickles: unbalanced_away: some of the PT ops allow what is called 'in-kind exchange'
smickles: you'd basically need to strike deals with each individual
benkay: stablized somewhat around 63? am I reading this correctly?
gribble: There are currently 11411.366 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 776280.483766 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0026 seconds
gribble: There are currently 6959.0102 bitcoins demanded at or over 60.0 USD, worth 426621.296056 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.7264 seconds
smickles: benkay: I've heard that saying 'stable' or similar causes it to crumble
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.635 = 2.54 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00069238 = 12.0474 BTC [-]
[\\\]: shipping in october, derp
[\\\]: how dare oyu question?!
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P590T] 14 @ 0.07 = 0.98 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.64999999 = 2.6 BTC [+]
unbalanced: Thanks ThickAsThieves, smickles - I didn't think I was ready for the full MPEX but maybe at some point I'll get serious with this.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.64999999 = 2.6 BTC [+]
unbalanced: Once I stop consistently doing the wrong thing at the wrong time I can begin to scale up.
unbalanced: Nothing against the funds... I'd just like to use all available options and buy at the best price each time.
unbalanced: Thanks for the link, I think I saw one from someone else the other day too but didn't get a chance to follow it that day.
ThickAsThieves: so youd want coinbr/mpex, btct.co, bitfunder.com, havelockinvestments.com
ThickAsThieves: also litecoinglobal.com if you wanna dabble in ltc thru sdice, etc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.52999999 = 4.24 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves> i'm playing a drinking game, every time tiberius quotes a % with authority <<< lol
jurov: hi mircea_popescu, another magic world: deposits
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.2 = 0.8 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "There is a realistic possibility to me, that S.MPOE is in fact not owned by many actual individuals, rather than by few with multiple forum and bitcoin accounts. So please, consider my offer and be forewarned. I am just a messenger."
mircea_popescu: in a sense i suppose as a new guy it's just as good an assumption as any other.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7169 @ 0.00069415 = 4.9764 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4782 @ 0.00069569 = 3.3268 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.525 = 1.575 BTC [-]
jurov: lol would you be capable to restrain yourself into satoshi's writing style?
jurov: i don't think that possible
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21047 @ 0.00069238 = 14.5725 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00068153 = 0.886 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068152 = 3.4076 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6203 @ 0.00068141 = 4.2268 BTC [-]
smickles: mircea_popescu: no pm yet on that offer to help rpietila short s.mpoe
ThickAsThieves: what do you guys think about an IPO consulting service
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i imagine it will become quite a revenue stream as things develop
mircea_popescu: few people understand how to play strategically. putting out the cost to register today and expending the effort to trade/think it through will make you the investment banker of tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: and i bet you in 2015 there will be idiots joining in a la that estonian dood, all indignant that the powers that be in bitcoin don't give two shits for his second rate irl accomplishments
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: because they prefer to promote people who put the time and effort in when it mattered, and already have years' experience recorded.
mircea_popescu: and lo and behold how fake and unfair it all is and how it won't survive.
ThickAsThieves: part of me wonders if i wouldnt just be facilitating scammers
mircea_popescu: except it'll survive just fine, and own their ass into a fine paste until they submit.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.25 = 2.5 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: i doubt even 75% of the assets are missing spelling/grammar errors in the prosp
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.829 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.834 = 5.004 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.834 = 6.672 BTC [+]
jurov: well, actually i'm thinking about an IPO (not coinbr) and who could be consultant
jurov: but that service needs to plug bitcoins in anyway
jurov: and i seriously doubt it will be mpex worthy anyway, more like ltc-global
jurov: both creditor and consultant of last resort :)
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.158 = 0.474 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.5095 = 25.475 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 26 @ 0.5094 = 13.2444 BTC [-]
mjr_: by far the best bitcoin channel
mjr_: loooking forward to seeing the next diff
mjr_: i think petahashes by late summer is very possible
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1287 @ 0.00068141 = 0.877 BTC [-]
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 6640584.46211 based on data since last change | 7590073.16023 based on data for last three days
ThickAsThieves: needs to increase at least, what, 25% each difficulty ti make X.IDIFF.JUn profitable?
assbot: [MPEX:X.IDIFF.JUN] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.08995 / 0.22998333 / 0.3 (3 shares, 0.69 BTC)
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: ['149 @ 0.08995']
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['60 @ 0.24995', '8 @ 0.45', '30 @ 0.775']
jurov: but it will expire long before then
jurov: so i'm not sure if i buy at 0.24995 it will be significantly profitable at all
jurov: and mp refuses to reveal the backing, don't remember why
jurov: i mean, if the difficulty oversteps the collateral, idiff expires automatically
jurov: but you don't know the collateral, you can only guess
jurov: and it seems quite successful, 381 shares sold so far (arounf 0.1 each)
jurov: aside from the cover difference, mine expire much sooner
jurov: also it has interesting psychological effect, when i raised iDiff-O backing to 0.3BTC max, someone asked whether it's prediction
jurov: maybe it was you ThickAsThieves, no?
ThickAsThieves: i just look to see if i think i might have a chance at 10% or so
jurov: ofc it isn't a prediction. the price i sell them is a prediction+healthy margin
jurov: but it helps sales anyway i guess :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00067591 = 9.1248 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.62 = 2.48 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.53 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 63.38154, Best ask: 63.79372, Bid-ask spread: 0.41218, Last trade: 63.00000, 24 hour volume: 150392.80612442, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 70.50250, 24 hour vwap: 62.64420
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 51.26732239 / 68.67982696 / 69.97754937 (21630 shares, 6,022.77 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "I've always wanted to try my hand at investing, but I don't have much "spare" money, and am currently not working at all. BTCs are offering me an opportunity to not only invest starting small, but learn so much about international monetary policy, trading, markets & so forth. The BTC community here on Reddit is amazing (minus the inevitable trolls of course), and probably the most helpful and sincere group of people I've come a
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.25 = 2.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2 BTC [+]
benkay: whoever that is isn't an accredited investor
benkay: they're going to get RUINED
benkay: someone make some laws to protect them from themselves
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.53 = 2.65 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: This guy is a genius. Lets invest 5000 BTC in benkay right now.
benkay: i don't take dumb money.
benkay: do you bring something to investor/dev rel'n beyond cash?
thestringpuller: "We need you to regulate Bitcoin for us. A system that is not backed by any government to protect themselves from themselves"
benkay: homes I was makin teh funnies.
benkay: i really feel for you real processors
jurov: that's why satoshidice has ad on reddit
benkay: the pretend money space is so much more relaxed
benkay: and by relaxed i mean that instead of worrying about governments one worries about everyone
jurov: "Win Bitcoins while stress testing the network" ftw
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0044444 / 0.0044444 / 0.0044444 (100 shares, 0.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00320003 / 0.00441309 / 0.005598 (312412 shares, 1,378.70 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00545082 / 0.00638999 (1286541 shares, 7,012.71 BTC)
ThickAsThieves: abstractly speaking i've considered in the past that as a species we should spend some effort figuring out ways to make society more adaptable to paradigm shifts
benkay: gotta get some flex in the regulatory apparatuses
benkay: and philosophically speaking, ossification of power systems is a monotonic thing
ThickAsThieves: good example being how the internet gutted business, or globalization, etc
ThickAsThieves: changes that are bigger than just one state or country
benkay: "stress testing my cock"
benkay: i hear stress test, I think
gribble: There are currently 11864.004 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 806882.964797 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0029 seconds
gribble: There are currently 7816.305 bitcoins demanded at or over 60.0 USD, worth 479145.312198 USD in total. | Data vintage: 2.9141 seconds
gribble: There are currently 3204.9602 bitcoins offered at or under 67.0 USD, worth 210775.267292 USD in total. | Data vintage: 14.9539 seconds
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.99999987 / 1.99999996 / 2.00000000 (3 shares, 5.99999987 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.9774827 / 2.00000000 (133 shares, 263.00519931 BTC), 30D: 1.40000000 / 2.32302446 / 18.00000000 (554 shares, 1286.95555166 BTC)
benkay: stress test != flight test
benkay: stress test can burn up the drives on a poorly set up cluster
benkay: you know, overload load balancer
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <smickles> i think there's money in that
benkay: i'm always down for behavioral tests
benkay: "look and feel and fit"
benkay: i'm eager to know what kind of stress tests you want performed on your dick
mjr_: i'd rather use my dick to stress test a vagina
KRS1: i'd go for the vibration test
KRS1: hey mircea u have any more gore
mircea_popescu: i tell you sir we here at house of mircea have no gore
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.53 = 7.95 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 140 @ 0.53 = 74.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.848 = 8.48 BTC [+]
Namworld: I've added Havelock Investments to my spreadsheet tools
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.2 = 1 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 2 @ 0.00983 = 0.0197 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.00366 = 0.0732 BTC [-]
gribble: Current Blocks: 227700 | Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 | Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 | Next Difficulty In: 107 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 hours, 46 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6643433.27569 | Estimated Percent Change: 37.04449
mjr_: if these helveticoin guys turn out to be legit...
mjr_: could be crazy high
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 63.60681, Best ask: 63.60682, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 63.60681, 24 hour volume: 150365.18509571, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 70.16398, 24 hour vwap: 62.60693
gribble: There are currently 12199.101 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 829607.232292 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0026 seconds
Namworld: man, getting the amount of each shares, average price and balance on each stock exchange feels neat
mjr_: Namworld: can i get the link again?
Namworld: I need to republish the updated script
mjr_: looking forward to trying it out
Namworld: lotta functions in there. Many different APIs
Namworld: and each api has different urls for different kinds of data
mjr_: it integrates with coinbr?
jurov: coinbr has no api yet
Namworld: yeah, coinbr/Bitfunder don't have API yet so I haven't included that
jurov: iirc, you had something for options too?
jurov: cool! i tried and partially succeeded to import mpex option prices into gdoc, but felt like terrible hack
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 7 @ 0.53 = 3.71 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.711 BTC [+]
Namworld: VTX doing so well I can hardly believe it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.74899 = 1.498 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.74899 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.10000, Best ask: 67.10001, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 67.10000, 24 hour volume: 116721.98905975, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 62.24099
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00066958 = 0.8705 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00066957 = 1.2722 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.22003, Best ask: 67.75000, Bid-ask spread: 0.52997, Last trade: 67.22002, 24 hour volume: 93650.08079424, 24 hour low: 55.00000, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.22593
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.749 BTC [+]
Bowjob: it was 0.39 when it launched
mircea_popescu: this is becoming a pattern. new ipo, goes to 2x, fades then
Bowjob: i made the wrong call about vtx, didnt think they were worth 3 mil.
Namworld: Actually, assets on Havelock seem to hover around or under 10% per year
assbot: Are you sure you have no tobacco?
assbot: [HAVELOCK:VTX] 1D: 0.57099998 / 0.62809414 / 0.74900000 (283 shares, 177.75064253 BTC), 7D: 0.38280000 / 0.40438482 / 0.74900000 (10630 shares, 4298.61068602 BTC), 30D: 0.38280000 / 0.40438482 / 0.74900000 (10630 shares, 4298.61068602 BTC)
Namworld: and cavirtex charges 0.5-3% depending on volume.
Namworld: and has at least 7000 BTC traded weekly. Let's say an average of 2% in fees taken and that's 140 BTC, divided by 100k shares for 0.0014 weekly per share. x52 weeks = 0.0728 BTC yearly
Namworld: At 10% yearly, VTX would be worth 0.72 BTC per share
Bowjob: 10% a year in dividends is really good for a stock.. plus, the price appreciation
Bowjob: assuming coinlab doesnt squish them
Namworld: just like MtGox, unsurprisingly.
Namworld: Cavirtex is very good for the canadian market.
Bowjob: So that malaysian guy wants to use BTC to pass customs
Bowjob: well, we dont know if hes malasian
mircea_popescu: yeah, if they play right with the capital they got in ipo
Namworld: I wonder if they'd expend to the US
Namworld: But the service is top notch and good options for deposit/withdrawals.
Namworld: You have to provide identification papers tho to benefit from all they offer.
mircea_popescu: the only catch here is for their service to STAY top notch.
mircea_popescu: here's my idea : they have say 10k bank transfer limit.
mircea_popescu: as long as their trade grows from 1k to 5k to 8k it all seems top notch and scaling well.
Namworld: Still, if it goes slow because of trading volume, I would complain of service quality but not dividends.
Namworld: Ah, sad I didn't have more funds for that IPO
mircea_popescu: if company starts doing W instead.... no Y. maybe 0.5 Y, maybe 0.1 Y maybe 0 Y
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't buy mtgox shares atm, i'd sell them short to all hell.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.747 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067969 = 0.8836 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.0006797 = 1.4953 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.26803985 = 268.0399 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.74554357 = 1.4911 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.731 = 2.193 BTC [-]
Namworld: Looks like getting those calls was a good idea.
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 10 @ 0.1607531 = 1.6075 BTC [-]
Namworld: Looks like that's not covering
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 500 @ 0.00201401 = 1.007 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27075717 = 270.7572 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27085926 = 270.8593 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27083304 = 270.833 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.000719 BTC [+]
assbot: Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.731 BTC [-]
assbot: Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.00406127 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 68.03000, Best ask: 68.38000, Bid-ask spread: 0.35000, Last trade: 68.02002, 24 hour volume: 75739.57028674, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.96990
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27093498 = 270.935 BTC [+]
error4733: "24 hour volume: 75739.57028674" x 68 = 5M$ seems legit
error4733: i read this wrong ? 75K BTC trade in the last 24h ?
mircea_popescu: redditor wants to know "How do keep your wallet on your computer synced with your wallet on your mobile?"
Namworld: no, "75K BTC trade in the last 24h ?"
Bowjob: redditors are insanely generous
Namworld: I sense coins flowing my way...
Bowjob: this one dude gave like 350 BTC free
mircea_popescu: Say I have most of my money at home in my computer. I am on the road without access to it and I need to spend some bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: Ooops I am out of luck. All my money is at home and I have no way to get at it."
Bowjob: oh and i accidentally wore shirt backwards, according to some asian culture
Bowjob: its a sign of insanely good luck
Bowjob: gee. i wonder what that is
Bowjob: id prefer a more obvious sign of luck
Chaang-Noi: i see if i go away for a weekend when i come back all is normal:)
Chaang-Noi: i have no doubt in my mind that you really where
Chaang-Noi: anyone get any deals in that flash crash to 52.31?
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27117008 = 271.1701 BTC [+]
Bowjob: we got an enterainment deal.. those bears deserved it
Bowjob: it was too risky selling at the top
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 68.03002, Best ask: 68.37999, Bid-ask spread: 0.34997, Last trade: 68.03002, 24 hour volume: 73431.39868107, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.99730
Bowjob: proudhon called it a downtrend.. so the opposite happened
Bowjob: he should get an award for consistently failing his calls
Chaang-Noi: well when i saw 52 i was wondering if 32 would get hit
Chaang-Noi: 68 on a sunday, damn... i wonder about next week!
Bowjob: that flash crash.. i speculate its just a few big sellers, then noobs jumped in
Bowjob: learned an expensive lesson. and bought back at a higher price
damientrog: what kind of dump volume would cause such a flash crash?
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27114431 = 271.1443 BTC [-]
Bowjob: yeah but why the value??
Chaang-Noi: becasue it was premined and they got the difficulty way high
Bowjob: and btc-e tolerates this?
Chaang-Noi: when you premine the shit out of a coin like that its not hard to keep it up
Chaang-Noi: they got paid like 300000 nvc before it evengot listed
kakobrekla: aparently in 2011 and 2012 all the idiots thoguht they are cool for a bitcoin biz
Chaang-Noi: "Just checked the queue, there are 5500 accounts pending verification at this very moment." at gox that is damn bullish
gribble: Error: "goxverificationlag" is not a valid command.
Bowjob: ". Since we have a limited number of available chips for the first batch, I will not, in good conscience, be taking a large swath of them."
kakobrekla: well a bunch of money is still puring in
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 6678297.40921 based on data since last change | 7641687.50681 based on data for last three days
Bowjob: So apparently if bfl gets their shit together, they will keep some mining rigs for themselves?
error4733: i'll do the same if i was running a ascis factory
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.2703313 = 270.3313 BTC [-]
error4733: i hope this Ddos attak on SwC is from a oncurrent
error4733: SatoshiPoker ! Erik if you're there, please make that real
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 30 @ 0.000674 = 0.0202 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 17 @ 0.00066 = 0.0112 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 60 @ 0.000657 = 0.0394 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 25 @ 0.00065 = 0.0163 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 10 @ 0.00061 = 0.0061 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: gox > 2. Order lag is simply linked to large/unusual activity. We are working on a new trade engine that will reduce lag for large activity (this is our current main priority alongside keeping things secure and ensuring our legal compliance). Note that even if the engine is lagging, orders are guaranteed to be executed in the same order they were placed.
gribble: Current Blocks: 227801 | Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 | Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 | Next Difficulty In: 6 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 38 minutes and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6692199.0965 | Estimated Percent Change: 38.05046
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4180 @ 0.0006698 = 2.7998 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.843995 = 1.688 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 245 @ 0.0006 = 0.147 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 9 @ 0.007 = 0.063 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.71234, Best ask: 67.97000, Bid-ask spread: 0.25766, Last trade: 67.71234, 24 hour volume: 67103.69556708, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 64.99679
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C510T] 1000 @ 0.27074638 = 270.7464 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.131 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 10 @ 0.1306 = 1.306 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 5 @ 0.13 = 0.65 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.843995 = 1.688 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.0099 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.843995 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.74895 = 2.9958 BTC [+]
Uglux: maybe he invites you in his TV show now :>
Bowjob: avalon still breaks even in 5 days
Bowjob: honestly, ill get my shit... the diff might be like 10m
kakobrekla: "i can make pancakes - so i must be able to use bitcoin"
Bowjob: we'll see single digits soon
Bowjob: 1 mBTC = $1 parity event
Uglux: so proudhon was right all the time
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 3 @ 0.021 = 0.063 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 67.22000, Best ask: 67.22001, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 67.22000, 24 hour volume: 64537.66062626, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 69.50000, 24 hour vwap: 65.00382
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 45 @ 0.0006 = 0.027 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: instead of thinking he's suffering from every entry in the nosology book, like normal interns
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00066987 = 0.8708 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 820 @ 0.00066986 = 0.5493 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150 @ 0.00066957 = 0.1004 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1630 @ 0.00066656 = 1.0865 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.843994 = 7.5959 BTC [-]
assbot: Good morning, may you serve the Lord, and may His holy dominion guide you through your dismal life.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8370 @ 0.00066656 = 5.5791 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7280 @ 0.00066655 = 4.8525 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 2 @ 0.0006 = 0.0012 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: When will there be a shareholders meeting?
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00406127 / 0.00410987 / 0.0044444 (2418 shares, 9.94 BTC), 7D: 0.00320003 / 0.00435464 / 0.005598 (288838 shares, 1,257.79 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00544752 / 0.00638999 (1286528 shares, 7,008.39 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 51.26732239 / 68.48072218 / 69.69362193 (24630 shares, 6,346.18 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21992 @ 0.00066655 = 14.6588 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3919 @ 0.00066079 = 2.5896 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: Must be dividends paying week for the price to drop that low.
Chaang-Noi: will there be dividends for dive this month?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3381 @ 0.00066079 = 2.2341 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10969 @ 0.00065768 = 7.2141 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 225 @ 0.00439999 = 0.99 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.825 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.822 = 4.11 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.82 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.52999999 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00066236 = 1.7884 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.53 = 2.12 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2148 @ 0.004 = 8.592 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 10000 @ 0.004 = 40 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 6 @ 0.009899 = 0.0594 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.0041 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 15 @ 0.00403 = 0.0605 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 18 @ 0.00402 = 0.0724 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 7 @ 0.00402 = 0.0281 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 149 @ 0.00402 = 0.599 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 215 @ 0.000585 = 0.1258 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.821 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 20034 @ 0.0006 = 12.0204 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.821 = 4.105 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.82 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.82 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.52 = 4.68 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.74879999 = 2.9952 BTC [-]
gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 14 seconds
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7488 BTC [+]
gribble: Current Blocks: 227833 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1990 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 4 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7798057.04105 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.46146
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00067516 = 0.0675 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 69.22001, Best ask: 69.89880, Bid-ask spread: 0.67879, Last trade: 69.15100, 24 hour volume: 53590.65591553, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 70.80000, 24 hour vwap: 65.02820
gribble: There are currently 13727.664 bitcoins offered at or under 75.0 USD, worth 1004783.82347 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0025 seconds
gribble: There are currently 5320.6814 bitcoins demanded at or over 65.0 USD, worth 356090.217043 USD in total. | Data vintage: 21.7412 seconds
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7487 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7488 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.53 = 1.06 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.53 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7487 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: it's funny sometimes Havelock shows - when it should be +, somehting to do with how matching orders don't get filled immediately there I bet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7488 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 731 @ 0.00065768 = 0.4808 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00065653 = 3.6766 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.53 = 4.77 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5891 @ 0.00065652 = 3.8676 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5809 @ 0.00067509 = 3.9216 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8926 @ 0.00065583 = 5.8539 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1097 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.0043999 = 2.2 BTC [+]
gribble: Current Blocks: 227842 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1981 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8074724.41934 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.5934
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 68.50001, Best ask: 68.51000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00999, Last trade: 68.51000, 24 hour volume: 52567.32160321, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 70.80000, 24 hour vwap: 65.13060
smickles: mircea_popescu: How's your NPD going today?
smickles: Have you been staying away from mirrors like the doc said to?
mpexbot: smickles: S.DICE Bids: ['2000 @ 0.004004', '352 @ 0.004', '1512 @ 0.0038512', '1000 @ 0.00385001', '1000 @ 0.00380002']
mpexbot: smickles: Asks: ['4259 @ 0.00439999', '194974 @ 0.0044', '500 @ 0.00444437', '900 @ 0.0044444', '204 @ 0.00444442']
jurov: nah, mirrors. he should rather forbid the girls to call him "master"
smickles: c'mon, that's just a healthy sexlive
jurov: you do have healthy sex life, too?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.53 = 1.06 BTC [+]
smickles: yeah, but in another way. My wife's pregnant, so she's ready and willing most all the time
jurov: pregnant again? sry if i misunderstand your family situation
jurov: congrats in any case ;)
smickles: heh, the process takes a while. She's due mid may
jurov: ic... she has no clock buffers, so you have to wait :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067508 = 3.3754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8148 @ 0.00067509 = 5.5006 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067969 = 0.8836 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 819 @ 0.0006797 = 0.5567 BTC [+]
jurov: S.MPOE, WAT UR DOIN
jurov: lol prolly i miss bowjob
gribble: Current Blocks: 227847 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1976 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 32 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7802484.10798 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.52758
[\\\]: secure the network they said
[\\\]: asicminer div just got included in a block
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 3 @ 0.05191801 = 0.1558 BTC
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 70.00000, Best ask: 70.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.70000, Last trade: 70.70000, 24 hour volume: 50443.42134716, 24 hour low: 60.31012, 24 hour high: 70.80000, 24 hour vwap: 65.36583
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 0.75 = 5.25 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 3 @ 0.05265701 = 0.158 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.8 = 4.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 44 @ 0.8 = 35.2 BTC [+]
[\\\]: DeaDTerra, time to wake up and process ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 3 @ 0.05265701 = 0.158 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.516 BTC [-]
mpexbot: smickles: S.DICE Bids: ['2000 @ 0.004004', '352 @ 0.004', '1512 @ 0.0038512', '1000 @ 0.00385001', '1000 @ 0.00380002']
mpexbot: smickles: Asks: ['4259 @ 0.00439999', '194974 @ 0.0044', '500 @ 0.00444437', '900 @ 0.0044444', '204 @ 0.00444442']
smickles: quite a bit higher on havelock
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05090501 = 0.1018 BTC [-]
mjr_: has anyone seen rogue trader?
smickles: "A rogue trader is an authorized employee making unauthorized trades on behalf of their employer."
mjr_: the movie with ewan mcgregor
mjr_: its an amazing trading movie
KRS1: market price on mt gox makes no sense to me..everything i know about markets tells me it should have been going down by now. i'm not an expert by anymeans however.
mjr_: what tells you it should be going down by now?
KRS1: maybe not go down..plateu?
mjr_: we are down from the high...
mjr_: decreased weekend volume means less liquidity
mjr_: higher spreads and more volatility
mjr_: we also had a big jump in difficulty
mjr_: that SHOULD tamp down on the supply flowing in
KRS1: which might raise it higer?
mjr_: think the miners were doing a block every 6-7 minutes
mjr_: that should go back to around 10
mjr_: yes, lower supply from mining pools
mjr_: i'm just thinking out loud
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05469641 = 0.1094 BTC [+]
mjr_: i haven't really sold at all...but i have a price target that i want to hit by 2014
KRS1: thanks ill take from that and try to grasp it
mjr_: in an efficient market, with a lot of liquidity, you would see the jump in difficulty priced in
mjr_: this aint a market like that
mjr_: signals are all weird...
wao: mjr_: downloading rogue trader
mjr_: because of inefficiencies
KRS1: which point to high volitility but overall health
mjr_: 5500 accounts waiting to open ongox
mjr_: they aint going there to sell i bet
mjr_: coinbase seems to be quite fucked in fulfilling demand
mjr_: none of these mean that it HAS to go up...any guy who wants to buy himself a nice car could drop the price signifigantly
KRS1: this is a great link thanks smickles
mjr_: speaking of which, anyone seen the 6 wheel mercedes g-wagon?
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05283951 = 0.1057 BTC [-]
mjr_: only a few military grade trucks could outperform you...and they wouldn't look as cool :)
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05197551 = 0.104 BTC [-]
smickles: jeez, that thing tears the fuck out of the land
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7448 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.7448 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 57 @ 0.8 = 45.6 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05197551 = 0.104 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 2 @ 0.05419401 = 0.1084 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.7448 = 9.6824 BTC [-]
smickles: see my refutation using actual studies to back it up
mjr_: smickles: yeah, it is a beast of a truck
mjr_: and yeah, you can retrofit any theory to back up your chart patterns...at the beginning of a "head and shoulders" very few can successfully call the head and shoulders...you see it after it has happened
mjr_: i mean that guy not you by the way
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05419401 BTC [+]
smickles: mjr_: where you around back when someone claimed to have spotted a head and shoulders int the btc/usd price a while ago? it became a small meme when someone else colored it like batman
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 48 @ 0.00384 = 0.1843 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 31 @ 0.00384 = 0.119 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.00385 = 0.385 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 500 @ 0.00383 = 1.915 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.8395 = 2.5185 BTC [+]
mjr_: haven't seen many head and shoulders but cup and handle has been going around a lot
mjr_: simple point is that just cuz it did that .5 seconds ago, means jack shit to what it does in the next .5 seconds...especially when you have such a small sample size
mjr_: how does a chart possibly tell me someone is going to unload a half a mill cuz they decided to buy a house
mjr_: only a handful of really big traders
mjr_: and they can move the price dollars up or down
mjr_: but not only is there volatility...its also volatility of volume and size
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05418651 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 70.59701, Best ask: 70.98000, Bid-ask spread: 0.38299, Last trade: 70.98000, 24 hour volume: 46477.06384271, 24 hour low: 60.37000, 24 hour high: 71.43825, 24 hour vwap: 66.26052
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 7882079.03307 based on data since last change | 7826894.02138 based on data for last three days
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05401701 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.516 BTC [-]
mjr_: ThickAsThieves: those estimates won't mean anything till we get a bigger sample size
mjr_: smickles: here is something funny to watch though
mjr_: easy way to make a shit ton of money if you caught that bottom...
mjr_: especially if you were leveraged 5 to 1 on bitfinex
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05401701 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067563 = 0.8783 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00067564 = 2.8377 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: i can sell you a code for Bioshock Infinity & Crysis 3
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 seconds ago: <smickles> heh, mjr_ fun stuff
mjr_: but damn it is fun to watch
mjr_: bunch of people working on bringing more efficiency to the market
mjr_: we'll be telling young kids in years about when it used to jump ten points
mjr_: they'll be like "it used to be 65???"
smickles: mjr_: also, i caught that. and it reminded me of the video of the guy who recorded the crash from 30 to 0 which was eventually rolled back due to it being caused by a hack
smickles: and i think bugpowder said he missed the bottom by .20 usd
ThickAsThieves: but how long was his fiat sitting there waiting for that lost opportunity
smickles: ThickAsThieves: mine? or BP's?
ThickAsThieves: just addressing that things have to dip pretty damn low to be worth the risk of sitting on fiat
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05061551 BTC [-]
tiberiusiv: well his IPO had a fair valuation imo $3mil market cap for entire company
gribble: thestringpuller was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 minutes and 42 seconds ago: <thestringpuller> ThickAsThieves: could you gift me Kerbel Space Program
tiberiusiv: unlike most other btc firms hes a fully incorporated company
ThickAsThieves: i'll skip to you telling me how there's not as much risk as one might think
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves: cavirtex has better transparency then anything out there so far imo, his statements have to be audited by multiple 3rd parties
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.83945 = 1.6789 BTC [-]
tiberiusiv: how do they have 0 profit when hes collecting 2-3% off of $150k a day?
mjr_: i don't know their profit
mjr_: but that is how you would turn that revenue not into profit
mjr_: those 3rd party audits aren't free you know
mjr_: i have no clue about cavirtex
tiberiusiv: ca virtex traded $800k in the last week
mjr_: and haven't looked into them
tiberiusiv: collecting at least 2% of that for themselves
mjr_: but i'm sure they will do well
mjr_: i am just not interested in gaining on appreciation
tiberiusiv: nobody else cashes out as fast as they do so far in north america
mjr_: revenue streams only ATM
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [-]
mjr_: the prob for my model
mjr_: is that if i believe in the company
mjr_: i don't want to sell
ThickAsThieves: "To date all revenues have been used for business and website development, legal fees, computer hardware and marketing. All available capital is being used to grow the company and complete the business plan items."
mjr_: no...they have absolutely no promise of dividends
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves: yes because volumes have increased only in the last 3months
ThickAsThieves: "In the case where VirtEx is bought out by another company or VirtEx pays a dividend to its shareholders, Bitcoin shareholders will get paid in Bitcoin at the Canadian dollar equivalent rate using the best market prices at the time"
mjr_: satoshi dice "we will pay 100% of profit as dividends"
tiberiusiv: yes because its an illegal gambling site.
mjr_: in the case that aliens land on earth...
tiberiusiv: of course it will have the highest payouts
mjr_: maybe illegal in america
mjr_: that aint the whole world
tiberiusiv: satoshi dice has a 30% dividend yield for a reason
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00067564 = 4.1214 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068174 = 3.4087 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3198 @ 0.00068175 = 2.1802 BTC [+]
tiberiusiv: it implies major risk of an event occuring
mjr_: that is only if bitcoins are regulated in gambling, which no one has said they are so far
tiberiusiv: mjr: the market is saying satoshi dice is risky
tiberiusiv: hence why it has a 30% dividend yield.
mjr_: they are simply passing through most of THEIR profits to most of their stakeholders
mjr_: ie. the 87% of the company which they own
tiberiusiv: and the dividend yield would be in the single digits.
tiberiusiv: the reason its not is because satoshi dice has a huge event risk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1 @ 0.00068175 BTC [+]
mjr_: and that is a very small window
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2 @ 0.00068175 = 0.0014 BTC [+]
tiberiusiv: 2) hes also a memeber of the "cash in" service bitinstant
mjr_: actually he is at coinapult
tiberiusiv: mjr: i dont have to keep going, the market is indicating a 30% dividend for a reason, if it was safe the price of satoshi would be 2-3x what it is now.
tiberiusiv: because even a 10% annual dividend in BTC is alot
tiberiusiv: mjr_: second off it doesnt matter if satoshidice is in ireland, they have no gaming license to make them legal in ANY jurisdiction.
mjr_: under what license are you allowed to buy milk?
tiberiusiv: the gambling friendly regions require a license.
mjr_: unless there is legislation STOPPING you
tiberiusiv: the farmer is licensed to sell it to me
mjr_: it is implicityly legal
mjr_: and ireland doesn't have that
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 10 @ 0.05003501 = 0.5004 BTC [-]
mjr_: which is why all the other gambling sites are there too
mjr_: ie. dollar online poker
tiberiusiv: they are on small islands fully licensed
tiberiusiv: gaming jurisdictions provide licenses to firms
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05003501 BTC [-]
tiberiusiv: gaming is 100% regulated in ireland. requiring licenses
ThickAsThieves: would be nice to see some development or promotion for sdice again
mjr_: well, that is happening
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.516 = 2.064 BTC [-]
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves: imo if their wasnt so much uncertainty with sdice its price would be 2-3x higher
mjr_: i have a lot of faith in the long term prospects of that company
tiberiusiv: the bigger they get the larger the target on them
mjr_: you don't get half of the volume by not being popular
tiberiusiv: especially when key executives are inside the US.
tiberiusiv: breaking numerous US laws in the process
mjr_: which they won't be for even 4 weeks
mjr_: not sure the exact time frame
mjr_: but i think it is already well known
tiberiusiv: voorhees should have never been a memeber of the cash in service as well
mjr_: that they will not be here very much longer
tiberiusiv: because as far as US authorities are concerned, he is selling casino chips
mjr_: they have done at this point...oh yeah nothing
mjr_: and they won't be here
tiberiusiv: it doesnt matter his name is everywhere and he is a US citizen
tiberiusiv: and he has no gaming license in any jurisdiction even ireland
mjr_: so you are now worried about ireland stepping in
mjr_: i'll take my chances i suppose
tiberiusiv: if satoshi dice was double in price the dividend yield would be 15%
mjr_: different risk profiles and we can leave it at that
benkay: freeze your fiat-denominated assets
benkay: and lock you in a room
mjr_: um...there are no fiat denominated assets
mjr_: all of s.dice is in btc
benkay: not necessarily true of the humans behind it
mjr_: expenses paid in btc
tiberiusiv: operating an illegal casino is still a massive fine/punishment even in ireland.
tiberiusiv: please read the laws before you spout BS
benkay: usg doesn't care about laws or your mythical currencies
benkay: they just lock you up and make an example of you
tiberiusiv: its not the wildwest like carribean islands
mjr_: lock up the server?
benkay: nope, the humans who can log into the server.
mjr_: remember...only the server is in ireland
mjr_: there is nothing in the US to lock up
smickles: < tiberiusiv> yes because its an illegal gambling site. <<< iirc, it's a legal irish gaming company
tiberiusiv: mjr: the US government can seize the server in ireland.
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05144351 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C730T] 1 @ 0.05144351 BTC [+]
benkay: and any stockholder they can track down they can arguably nail to the wall
mjr_: we have jurisdiction to seize irish property now?
tiberiusiv: smickles: they are licensed in ireland?
mjr_: kim dotcom is so screwed right now
mjr_: i hate getting off scott free
tiberiusiv: mjr: European union has agreements with the US.
mjr_: and having lots of money
mjr_: julian assange...free
tiberiusiv: thats what matters he still lost tens of millions
mjr_: hmmm who's been locked up
tiberiusiv: mjr: his assets werent unfrozen, and he losts tens of millions
mjr_: his assets are in bitcoins
tiberiusiv: being a prisoner in a embassy is being free?
mjr_: iirc you can't freeze a bitcoin account
tiberiusiv: the point is satoshi dice stock can collapse to 0 in 1 day
mjr_: i don't think you can
mjr_: there are hosts all over the world
mjr_: and its just a server
tiberiusiv: high dividend yield = uncertainty about future profits
mjr_: ok, to clarify...i think that the risk that the tin foil hat wearers see is overblwon
mjr_: hence making this stock extremely undervalued
smickles: tiberiusiv: ireland requires a license to play games?
mjr_: now obviously, the drones are just one step away right tiberiusiv?
smickles: a game of monopoly must fucking suck to get started
tiberiusiv: smickles: all legal gaming jurisdictions require the provider to obtain gaming licenses
mjr_: tiberiusiv: and what does it require to let me download music for free? who licenses that?
tiberiusiv: smickles: BTC can be defined as equivalent to casino chips.
mjr_: the govt is not all powerful you know
tiberiusiv: it would take less then 30seconds to prove BTC are exchangable for fiat
smickles: tiberiusiv: you mean gambling, right? from what i've read, the lawyers over there see playing satoshi dice with bitcoin as a game, not gambling
tiberiusiv: mjr: well you are breaking the law anonymously
tiberiusiv: satoshidice is breaking many laws with its owners publicly exposed
mjr_: i find it hilarious, that the same people who usually decry the inefficiences of govt then when convenient say that they can literally do anything they put their mind to
tiberiusiv: smickesL: you dont understand terminology do you? gaming = gambling in what i am referencing...
tiberiusiv: mjr: if satoshidice future was more certain, the price would reflect it, it doesnt.
mjr_: they can't run healthcare...but they could prob insert a chip into every american
mjr_: tiberiusiv: i totally agree
smickles: tiberiusiv: yeah, but they see the difference between gambling and playing poker with zynga credits
mjr_: the point of investing, iirc, is to try to play on inefficiences, if everyone knew what it was worth...it owuldn't make sense to buy it for more
mjr_: and the price would be frozen
tiberiusiv: zynga credits arent easily convertible
smickles: and they see playing sd with bitcoin in the category of zynga poker with zynga credits
tiberiusiv: mjr: not true, when you buy on the secondary market someone is betting against you by selling to you.
smickles: last i knew, zynga didn't need to comply with gambling laws
mjr_: yes, and the market proves us right or wrong
tiberiusiv: you only truely "invest" by buying on primary market ie an ipo to raise capital for a firm
mjr_: i have bought on secondary and primary market
tiberiusiv: smickes: bitcoin is not in the category of zynga credits.
mjr_: tiberiusiv: per what irish ruling?
tiberiusiv: zynga credits cannot be cashed in and out for dollars
smickles: tiberiusiv: the ECB seemd to think it was
tiberiusiv: mjr: probably if satoshidice obtains a real gaming license the price will double or tripple
mjr_: tiberiusiv: that is the point
mjr_: tiberiusiv: similar to investing in med company hoping for drug approval
mjr_: tiberiusiv: or new product lines which are as yet unknown
tiberiusiv: mjr_: ireland has GAMBLING licenses that you need.
mjr_: tiberiusiv: i think we are on the same page...they are cheap now, but i expect them to become expensive
mjr_: tiberiusiv: so i buy them now...instead of when they are expensive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6188 @ 0.00066482 = 4.1139 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00065585 = 0.8526 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4712 @ 0.00065584 = 3.0903 BTC [-]
mjr_: tiberiusiv: taking on risk
mjr_: tiberiusiv: in exchange for higher return
smickles: i think they launched in ireland because, if in the future what they are doing is legally considered gambling, they can get a license
smickles: currently, legally, from what their lawyers think, it's not gambling
tiberiusiv: as long as satoshidice managers are openly operating an illegal casino while having a cashin service in the United states, and a presence in the united states satoshidice is not cheap
mjr_: tiberiusiv: AWESOME! that means in less than four weeks their price should skyrocket
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00401 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 61 @ 0.004 = 0.244 BTC [-]
mjr_: tiberiusiv: since as i've said...their won't be anybody in the US
tiberiusiv: satoshidice would have been 2-3x imo if the managers stayed fully anonymous
mjr_: i was going off your points
tiberiusiv: the operators are known to authorities at this point
tiberiusiv: especially since they openly bragged about the profits a few months ago too
mjr_: <tiberiusiv> as long as satoshidice managers are openly operating an illegal casino while having a cashin service in the United states, and a presence in the united states satoshidice is not cheap
tiberiusiv: mjr: the cashin service is not leaving.
mjr_: and they will not be a part of that
tiberiusiv: 80%+ of satoshidice players are US residents
mjr_: from what i understand they aren't now
mjr_: and who cares about the players again?
mjr_: they can't shut down people playing, we already established that
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1 @ 0.05303651 BTC [+]
tiberiusiv: the point is voorhees is operating the "cashier" and the gaming table with his NAME on it.
mjr_: it uses the blockchain
mjr_: if they could bitcoin is done anyway
mjr_: hmmm...check out bitinstant
tiberiusiv: bitinstant allows some american to walk into walmart and fund his sdice
tiberiusiv: Director of Marketing and Communications
mjr_: so shut down walmart?
tiberiusiv: his name is on BOTH sdice and the cash in service.
tiberiusiv: it doesnt matter hes asking for trouble
tiberiusiv: and the market price of sdice reflects those concerns
mjr_: i would even lend you my shares to short
mjr_: so i could make more money off FUD
tiberiusiv: and your comment about kim dotcom, sure hes free but his business is destroyed.
mjr_: i would love the price to fall a bit more
mjr_: yeah, mega is done for sure
mjr_: can't keep a good man down i guess
mjr_: especially in NZ or anywhere else in the world
mjr_: change your nick to doom_and_gloom_FUD
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.107 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1052 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1051 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1051 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.105 BTC [-]
mjr_: if you remember what warren buffet said...
tiberiusiv: no im being realistic in a world dominated by government.
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.102 = 0.204 BTC [-]
mjr_: what should i do when people are being fearful?
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 4 @ 0.101 = 0.404 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 3 @ 0.100001 = 0.3 BTC [-]
mjr_: lol maybe your world is...in my experience
mjr_: there are cayman accounts...swiss accounts...
mjr_: and they do nothing about them
mjr_: they can't stop a guy smoking a joint or downloading a song
tiberiusiv: nope but they can take down the source
mjr_: no more columbian coke in US for sure
mjr_: they took it out at the source
tiberiusiv: theres a reason americans cant open foreign bank accounts
mjr_: and that is a physical substance
tiberiusiv: the original cartel operators from 15 years ago are all dead
mjr_: open foreign bank accounts
mjr_: and yet coke is still here
smickles: how did i pull off opening a foreign bank account?
mjr_: lol you are ridiculously trolling now
jurov: we are betting that they can't take down all sources for everything. too expensive and ineffective
mjr_: the source can't be shut down
tiberiusiv: mjr: the coke cartels from 15-20 years ago are all DEAD.
jurov: soviets tried that, filed and bankrupted in the end
mjr_: and yet the market found a way to bring what was requested
tiberiusiv: satoshi can be taken down, and a new one will take its place i agree
tiberiusiv: but shareholders of the first will be at 0.
smickles: tiberiusiv: why do you think americans can't open forign bank accounts?
mjr_: but again, that is why i risk my capital
mjr_: smickles: it's gotta be a troll
tiberiusiv: smickles: majority of banks in the world do not want the regulatory headache of dealing with US citizens.
mjr_: everyone everywhere knows that we open bank accounts all across the world
tiberiusiv: smickles: please read the laws over the last few years
jurov: tiberiusiv: what prevents evoorhees selling satoshidice to someone anon in the worst case?
smickles: ThickAsThieves: you conclusion does not follow from your premises
mjr_: tiberiusiv: so wait...since those banks CHOOSE not to deal with headaches...we are not legally able to open an account?
smickles: tiberiusiv: i opend a french and a UK bank account just a month ago
mjr_: it's obvious that the one whose fallacious assumptions is not ThickAsThieves
tiberiusiv: smickles: at major banks who comply with US reporting requirements.
smickles: tiberiusiv: so you admit your conclusion was just plain wrong then?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.004 = 0.4 BTC [+]
tiberiusiv: jurov: my point was, the market is indicating a unnaturally high risk factor for sdice going forward.
mjr_: tiberiusiv: it's easy, at the end of the day, to say why things won't work...it only costs you your time on this forum (probably largely offset by the enjoyment you get from trolling), but it's a lot harder to do things that do work
smickles: "americans can't open forign bank accounts"
mjr_: tiberiusiv: that is not a great return
mjr_: i have dollars lent out at almost 300%
tiberiusiv: 30% yield on a deflationary asset isnt?
jurov: yea that is whole economy problem, not just satoshidice
mjr_: bitcoin alone would yield more
tiberiusiv: satoshi dice dividend has been over 300% in real terms.
mjr_: um...if you got in at 17 they gained around 5-6X
tiberiusiv: if you bought satoshi dice the value of your dividends is in real terms is over 300%
tiberiusiv: so how is a 30% yield of BITCOINs not high?
jurov: imho much bigger factor than fear of regulation is trust problem
mjr_: ok it is a good return, and i've been quite happy
mjr_: but i do not conflate the returns of bitcoins with the returns of sdice
tiberiusiv: mjr: the point is its HIGH for a reason, if it was such a A+ asset, much more people would be willing to pay a higher price for it
mjr_: most of those super high returns i would have realized without bitcoins
mjr_: dude: limited market information
tiberiusiv: thereby bringing down the dividend yield(of which you have no clue how it works)
mjr_: i know a lot better than you it would seem
mjr_: are you saying that "bitcoin subsidizes satoshi dice?"
tiberiusiv: 30% return in a deflationary currency like bitcoin is massive
mjr_: their return is 30%
mjr_: if i hold bitcoins...i get the return on increase in value of bitcoin
mjr_: so you cannot conflate the two
mjr_: tiberiusiv: so do american stocks take into account the american dollar when the yreport dividends?
mjr_: because when evaluating investment opportunities
mjr_: you cannot say the entire economy behind this asset
mjr_: is specific to this asset
mjr_: i could invest in mpoe
mjr_: and get dividends there
mjr_: so...i have optoins in my investment choice
tiberiusiv: someone paying me 30% a year in income on my capital
jurov: duuude we're going in circles. just put your bitcoins where your mouth is.. i can provide some s.dice to shorting, too
jurov: unless you fear jail cuz unlicensed securities trading
mjr_: what backs this opinion other than hot air?
ThickAsThieves: so tiberius, does this mean you think sdice is a sound investment?
mjr_: opinions are like assholes
tiberiusiv: i dont fall in love with a stock like you do
mjr_: that is so irrational
mjr_: you should sell now
mjr_: i'm not in love with it
tiberiusiv: thicky: people that tend to be married to a stock usually get wiped out
mjr_: its not by any stretch my best performer
mjr_: tiberiusiv: the point is that management is prob the deciding factor in bitcoin ventures
tiberiusiv: thick: well the other btc business's like mpex are more viable then sdice IMO
jurov: tiberiusiv, really? if bitcoin isn't game currency
mjr_: that is why you diversify
jurov: then mpex = unregulated securities trader
tiberiusiv: thick: if you go on the bitcoin talk forums there is already threads sprouting up of people whining over their gambling losses.
jurov: and that's equally as bas as unregulated gambling
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves: nothing stopping some angry upset satoshidice customer tipping off the feds too
mjr_: ThickAsThieves: just another non sequitur
mjr_: LOL tipping them off? i thjought they had the swat team ready
mjr_: you men they don't know yet?
mjr_: i was under the assumption this whole conversation that the feds were aware of satoshi dice
tiberiusiv: jurov: the probability of mpex being around in a few years time is much higher then satoshidice, hence the lower risk profile
mjr_: thank god no one has ever thought to tell the fbi about them
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+]
jurov: tiberiusiv how so?
tiberiusiv: jurov if you need that explained to you i dont know what to say.
mjr_: guys, such a stupid point
jurov: if btc is subject to regulation they are both equally illegal
mjr_: the exchange they trade on...which is the most restrictive
mjr_: thought they were a good investment
mjr_: but if they fail miserably...the exchange would still be fine...
mjr_: ok...so if 33% of the stocks traded on nyse left tomorrow
mjr_: nyse would be just fine
jurov: no tiberiusiv's argument seems that usg inevitably cracks doen on sdice cuz illegal gambling
mjr_: tiberiusiv: obviously
jurov: and i'm asking, if illegal gambling, why not illegal securities exchange, too?
mjr_: i don't know about 0
tiberiusiv: jurov: they will crack down becuase the owners are bragging about profits, residing in the US, and running both the cashier + gaming table.
mjr_: but i think both mpex and sdice survive
jurov: and mircea isn't bragging?
mjr_: tiberiusiv: most casinos run the gaming table and the cashier
mjr_: and they don't operate here
tiberiusiv: voorhees is a US resident operating a US based cashier service that allows US residents to gamble on an illegal site
mjr_: operating is a strong word
mjr_: tiberiusiv: i work at a broker dealer...am i operating a broker dealer?
mjr_: or are the people who OWN the broker dealer operating it
tiberiusiv: and its definately indicating concerns
mjr_: the point is this... tiberiusiv constantly casts doubt about things, but usually has logical flaws that are obvious...when confronted, he finds other doubts...also flawed
mjr_: there is no one who OWNS bitinstant who also OWNS SDICE
smickles: < tiberiusiv> what cant you comprehend? << i think they feel you are misrepresenting what is happening
tiberiusiv: if i was wrong, sdice would be 2-3x higher and still offering a great return
mjr_: i think your FUD and others ignorance will keep it trading low for quite a whiloe
tiberiusiv: notice how the dividend yields of the other bitcoin based business's are nowhere near sdice?
mjr_: till good news sstarts coming out
jurov: tiberiusiv, can't it be just people cashing out of btc generally? all mpex assets went down recently
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [+]
mjr_: yes...not to mention...
mjr_: you have to realize that some people have not made money on SDICE
tiberiusiv: jurov: yes but mpex is valued higher then sdice with lower profits...
mjr_: it has plunged from 75 to like 40
ThickAsThieves: there so many places to buy sdice, all you need to do is arb yourself down to market value
mjr_: and dividends in feb where not the best
mjr_: march divs will prob be non-existent
mjr_: so short term investors got out
tiberiusiv: in theory sdice should be the most valuable BTC company at the moment
mjr_: those who appreciate the fact that anyone with that much market share and that great profit margin CAN"T be that cheap
mjr_: and who see your FUD for what it is...know that this is a bargain
kakobrekla: tiberiusiv the value of the company is not measured in dividends
mjr_: similar to buying bitcoins at $3
smickles: tiberiusiv: you know voorhees isn't even the largest shareholder of SD, right? i think he owns significantly less than half
mjr_: he also isn't an owner of bitinstant
tiberiusiv: smickles: great. hes a major player with his name everywhere..
mjr_: from what i've read
mjr_: lol: the "major player" herein referred to as the party of the first
tiberiusiv: kakobrekla: dividend yield signals many things
tiberiusiv: you purchase a stock for its future income.
mjr_: dividends are not the most important...
mjr_: look at march...0 dividends
mjr_: by your logic...with a 0% return on investment...it must be the best deal ever
ThickAsThieves: tib just keeps pointing out the one thing no one is mentioniong at the moment
tiberiusiv: sdice is more profitable then mpex yet is a less valuable firm for a reason
smickles: tiberiusiv: why is it illegal to play games with bitcoin?
smickles: why isn't it illegal to play games with wow gold or others like that?
mjr_: think the point that they are making is that sdice is not converting the btc for cash
tiberiusiv: thickasthieves: a simple example, a US blue chip like johnson and johnson will tend to have a lower dividend yield then a lesser quality firm
tiberiusiv: why? because you are more certain to recieve the income from JNJ in the future
mjr_: tiberiusiv: you are assuming financial reporting that is widespread, and liquidity that is many orders of magnitude higher than what we have
mjr_: tiberiusiv: also...investor savvy
tiberiusiv: sdice is one of the most liquid btc assets is it not?
mjr_: tiberiusiv: which is like saying it is less liquid than most pink sheet stocks?
tiberiusiv: i dont get what that has to do with anything
mjr_: but yeah, nice comparison to a NYSE DOW JONES COMPANY
smickles: I really don't think what SD is doing is illegal, and I'd like to have a firm grasp of why some people do
tiberiusiv: theres no other BTC firms that are paying 10%+ a year...
mjr_: also...your returns are decided by what YOU payed
mjr_: but pretty sure more than 10%
mjr_: cavirtex already doubled for some
mjr_: mpoe might be around 10% a year...not sure
Namworld: I don't consider anything regarding moving Bitcoins illegal and won't until I'm told to. For now it's just some virtual tokens.
Namworld: So SD is also not doing anything wrong
mjr_: tiberiusiv: that you can cash out through the casino with
tiberiusiv: based on that premise people can run gaming tables in their basements using tokens
tiberiusiv: and have someone operate a cashier service in another town
Namworld: Casino chips have a fixed USD value and are sold/bought by the casino
mjr_: hint hint...they do, it's called poker night
Namworld: They're a proxy for USD for easier use at the table
tiberiusiv: poker night is allowed as long as its not a regular occurance
mjr_: once weekly with your mates?
ThickAsThieves: also its a good example because casinos are exchanging fiat for chips anyway
mjr_: actually card tables are legal
smickles: casino chips are provided in an wholly different environment than Bitcoin
Namworld: BTC is virtual token with no fixed value. Some people happen to want to buy it. They don't have a definite USD value however, they're just valueless tokens unbacked by any entity.
mjr_: since poker is a game of skill in a lot of jurisdictions
smickles: it's a complete shit analogy: pokerchips and bitcoin
mjr_: see there is the non sequitur
mjr_: the casino BACKS the value of the chip
mjr_: the casino cannot say "those chips are worth 30
mjr_: fixed exchange set by and guaranteed by the issuer
mjr_: another distinction
Namworld: They're not in the sense that people want to buy them so you can sell them. But there's no one backing Bitcoins.
tiberiusiv: btc can be freely exchanged for dollars, just becuase sdice isnt doing the exchanging doesnt mean anything
mjr_: a chip is issued by a casino
mjr_: tiberiusiv: another flawed argument that causes you to jump to another shaky brance
Namworld: There's nothing in a Bitcoin and no backing. In that sense, they're valueless until sold.
tiberiusiv: look at this example. your friend living 10 miles from you, sells chips which can be used at YOUR basement casino far away from him
Namworld: If no one takes it for money, they're worth nothing. No one backs it.
smickles: remember that site that allowed trading 'stock' in any website?
smickles: you could buy/sell shares in curry.com, or w/e
Namworld: They're not unlike game currencies. They're worth nothing, just used in a game. You don't pay tax on what you earn in a virtual game.
mjr_: i'll leave it where kakobrekla was smart enough to...you don't really know what you are talking about
smickles: and people would pay actual money for those shares
tiberiusiv: as i said, the market shares my opinion of higher then normal risk with sdice shares.
smickles: it wasn't illegal just because there was a real money market for the stock
mjr_: this would be a great example of logical fallacies though if anyone saves the log
tiberiusiv: thats all that matters discussion over
mjr_: straw man arguments
Namworld: Well let him be with his beliefs. He can invest however he wants.
tiberiusiv: mjr: if the market did not share concerns about sdice the price would be 2-3x higher.
smickles: tiberiusiv: how do you prove that
mjr_: the one fatal flaw is this
tiberiusiv: i told you from the high dividend yield
mjr_: you say the market is always right
tiberiusiv: its abnormaly high meaning FUTURE income is shaky at best
tiberiusiv: if sdice was a licensed company it would probably be much higher
mjr_: the market is not perfectly efficient
smickles: yea, they could have a run of bad luck
mjr_: it is not perfectly liquid
smickles: there income is not guaranteed
tiberiusiv: smickles: i know nothing is guaranteed
mjr_: the point is, that people who EXPECT things to look different in the future
tiberiusiv: especially for a proven moneymaker thats around for about 12months now
mjr_: abnormally high is subjective
smickles: also there have been concerns about the higher usd/btc impacting their volume
mjr_: well dollar value of bets has been increasing if i remember correctly\
mjr_: although btc has gone down
smickles: i believe the uncertainty lies elsewhere
mjr_: lol, to hold the majority of people who use btc to the level of expertise of a mature market is simply foolish
smickles: and also, the market is fickel, ;you can't use that as evidence to their legality
mjr_: for fucks sake, it typically trades its lowest right before divs, and higher right after
tiberiusiv: market participants are simply stating an opinion with X price
mjr_: ok...with 5 market participants...how well can we do price discovery
mjr_: ex dividend means i trade HIGHEST right before dividend
mjr_: after dividend, price is low
mjr_: before it is higher, pricing in immediate payoff
mjr_: sdice does the exact opposite
mjr_: sell off BEFORE dividend
mjr_: big buys right after
mjr_: look at its price over time
tiberiusiv: if i was voorhees id be on a plane along time ago
mjr_: that is obvious evidence of immature market participants
smickles: so tiberiusiv care to say why it's illegal?
mjr_: who don't understand TVM
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.74479996 BTC [-]
mjr_: have you found a place that accepts btc for aluminium foil?
smickles: i mean, we were talking about that, then you tried to say that the market on S.DICE is evidence of SD's illegality
smickles: S.DICE is just what one shareholder of SD is doing with some of his shares
mjr_: that is the point...if you think most people, and obviously most people in this convo are excluded from this point, who trade sdice do any sort of fundamental analysis or even have traded stocks before...i'd say that is optimistic
smickles: tiberiusiv: also, evooorhees has been on a plane a long time ago
mjr_: majority are learning finance for the first time
smickles: he went to china, morocco, paris
smickles: at these plases he sold shars of SD
mjr_: and soon parts southern
smickles: he got backing from major gamblers and indirect money from one casino
smickles: in print media, conventions etc
mjr_: he's also obtained legal advice in this matter
smickles: all this outside the realm of S.DICE
mjr_: ie. people who are payed to review stuff like what you spout
smickles: i don't think S.DICE represents the market value of SD at all
smickles: considering >90% of sales have been off of S.DICE
smickles: why do you think it's illegal?
tiberiusiv: smickles: i meant not being a US resident
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 2 = 6 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0197 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.009899 BTC [+]
tiberiusiv: smickles: i already explained my position.
smickles: ok, so you don't have a good reason then
smickles: the reason I was asking was that I don't believe you gave good justification for your position
tiberiusiv: i already told you, voorhees is running an illegal gaming operation under US laws, while being a subject of the united states.
mjr_: "Well, if activity is unusual 10 times a day then something is wrong with your unusually-mometer" re: mt. gox's response to lag...
smickles: so the owners of forign casino's cant be in america?
smickles: even assuming SD qualifies as a casion
smickles: tiberiusiv: that seems quite wrong
tiberiusiv: smickles: most major online gaming places are licensed in a particular jurisdiction
Namworld: In Canada, you're taxed on 50% of your gains. Not 100%. But you can get as much as 43% tax on that 50% if you're in the top income bracket. So as high as 21.5% on gains... hmm, interesting.
Namworld: I guess it's not that bad... but not excellent
tiberiusiv: namworld: quebec have added capital gains on top of that?
smickles: tiberiusiv: so the people who own the casino's in morocco can't come to america w/o fear of being arrested?
tiberiusiv: why would they be they arent doing anything illegal
tiberiusiv: voorhees is and he is under US jurisdiction
Namworld: So does other provinces. They have provincial tax/sales tax depending on provinces
tiberiusiv: online gaming houses that cater to US customers, tend to stay away from the US..
tiberiusiv: and that lesson was taught during black thursday or friday
tiberiusiv: the warning is loud and clear smickles.
smickles: if you alread said why you think SD is illegal, can you at least give me a timecode so i can grep it
tiberiusiv: i dont think its illegal, im simply stating the position of the US government
tiberiusiv: of which voorhees is a subject to since he is residing there
tiberiusiv: and most of his customers are from there
mjr_: you referenced black friday
tiberiusiv: it wouldnt take longer then 1 month for motivated US authorities to put a case against voorhees together
mjr_: which is when BANKS couldn't transfer money to or from online gambling sights
smickles: why is SD illegal under us law then?
tiberiusiv: during the years of the ongoing trial..
smickles: i bet it'd be running the whole time the case went on
mjr_: i won! first big win for bitcoin...oh no one wants the company?
tiberiusiv: would be running, by more cautious people
mjr_: why do i keep getting sucked back in (FUD, obvious refutations, repeat)
smickles: SD would likely keep running at the same BTC addresses the whole time
mjr_: that is the point...btc can't really be stopped from flowing to SDICE
smickles: even if voorhees were jailed the whole time
mjr_: nor could they seize the btc
mjr_: which is the only part of black friday that had any sting
tiberiusiv: point is the value of the shares would collapse
tiberiusiv: what happens later makes no difference
mjr_: yep, panic can do that...then stronger hands buy
mjr_: and the price rebounds
mjr_: you only take a "loss" when you sell
mjr_: except in cases of mark to market which is usually due to margin requirements
smickles: so if voorhees is jailed, and the service keeps running as if nothing happened, you think the price would drop for any significant lenght of time?
tiberiusiv: i think mpex shares took a dive from missing out on 2 major IPOs
mjr_: but wait...assuming he is not in the US...you are saying the try to extradite?
smickles: that would be a real show of strength to my mind, SD keeps going even after the US GOV't tried to shut it down
tiberiusiv: so is havelock a stockexchange or funds?
smickles: hah, you still think S.DICE represents the value of SD shares?
mjr_: did not realize that asic miner IPO'd recently
mjr_: thought they started on GLBSE
smickles: S.DICE doesn't even have voting power
mjr_: thought asicminer was on btctc.co or however its spelled and bitfunder
smickles: all the assicminer shares out on 'the market' arn't actual shares of asicminer eithr
smickles: ThickAsThieves: you have severely misunderstood what all is hapening here
tiberiusiv: so if sdice doesnt represent sd shares what do they represent?
smickles: read the contract of all those asicminer things
smickles: which get you a share of game profits
smickles: asicminer proper is a private company
tiberiusiv: which are fully convertible into fiat currency
smickles: anything is convertible to fiat
smickles: wow gold and zynga credits included
ThickAsThieves: it is the party tht converts it that govs are looking at
tiberiusiv: they simply stated taht exchanges have to follow AML laws
smickles: or, sry, confusion in who you were talking at
tiberiusiv: nobody stated online gambling is now legal if you use bitcoins.
ThickAsThieves: so if WoW has a poker game inside using WoW gold, thats illegal too?
smickles: tiberiusiv: why is the use of wow gold legal even tho you can convert them to fiat and the issuer doesn't do that conversion
tiberiusiv: if they are running commercial gambling ventures then yes it would be thickasthieves
tiberiusiv: if its a casual gathering of friends its perfectly legal
tiberiusiv: once you start operating a gambling house for the sole purpose of profit it becomes illegal
tiberiusiv: smickles: theres nothing illegal about bitcoins themselves nor exchanging them
smickles: look at what blizzard is doing, you play a game, there is a chance you get coins
ThickAsThieves: if Microsoft sells me a poker exe and accepts fiat for that purchase is that illegal too?
smickles: you can sell those coins for fiat
tiberiusiv: smickles: you arent logging onto WoW to play poker or toss dice, or guess numbers.
smickles: how is SD not earning btc from their software?
smickles: tiberiusiv: it's still up to chance if and how many coins you get in wow
smickles: also, blizzard makes money off of the gold directly in the real money markets
mjr_: point is, to really simplify...whoever converts bears resonsibility for tax and aml
smickles: so they take a cut of people using wow gold, it's ok
tiberiusiv: blizzard is not running a game of chance
tiberiusiv: where they promise people payout multiples
mjr_: sdice...no conversion, no responsibility
smickles: sd takes a cut of people using bitcoin, it's not ok
mjr_: actually same exact standard that almost all btc gambling has been operating under
tiberiusiv: smickes: SD dice takes a cut from running a game of chance and promoting large payout multiples
tiberiusiv: you arent playing a game of chance to obtain wow items with promised payout multiples
tiberiusiv: quit argueing ridiculous statements and read the laws. if sd dice was legal everyone would have ran "token" games in the US.
mjr_: evenso...there is no precedent for an offshore company doing business in another currency to be under the jurisdiction of an american justice system unless they hold and or convert from USD
ThickAsThieves: i bet there are tons of foreign digital currencies US cant touch
mjr_: notice how he no longer brings up bitinstant/sdice conspiracy
smickles: pay money to play a game of chance and if you win you get money back; that happens in blizzard games
mjr_: i can't keep talking about this anymore
mjr_: same thing over and over
gribble: Current Blocks: 227872 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1951 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 12 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7901792.01955 | Estimated Percent Change: 18.01071
smickles: pay (what the us consideres) non-money to play a game of chance and get non-money back, it's illegal?
mjr_: i'm very interested in what is going to happen with the credit markets in bitcoins economy
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.07 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 71.21001, Best ask: 71.30000, Bid-ask spread: 0.08999, Last trade: 71.21001, 24 hour volume: 42847.49345213, 24 hour low: 62.25139, 24 hour high: 72.49999, 24 hour vwap: 67.90892
smickles: ya know, i don't think tiberiusiv is a troll. troll keep going when trolled, don't they?
smickles: but seriously, did i miss something or did they basically say that SD was illegal because it's online gambling, and it's online gambling b/c it's online gambling
Namworld: He doesn't appear as a troll...
tiberiusiv: why are you still repeating yourself smickles? the covnersation is over
smickles: tiberiusiv: just because you don't want to participate anymore, doesn't mean the conversation is over
smickles: you must be new to the internet
tiberiusiv: wager me 100 BTC that sdice gets in trouble in under 24months
smickles: i don't mean to be rude, but i can talk about you and the ideas you presented
smickles: i wasn't at the keyboard the whole time, so i might have missed tiberiusiv's reasoning as to why SD is gambling or gambling in the order that it needs to be regulated
smickles: 100 btc is a significant portion of my btc, what are the terms?
smickles: and would you accept nanotube as escrow?
tiberiusiv: no im not going to give some stranger 100btc for 2 years to hold
smickles: "get into trouble with US authorities" is a bit too vague
smickles: who would you accept as an escrow?
smickles: tiberiusiv: they could get into trouble for pot or somehting
tiberiusiv: my statement is not vague, they get in trouble for what they are doing
smickles: not for running a gambling operation?
tiberiusiv: for anything that revolves around gambling
smickles: how ofter do you do this sort of thing? you seem new
Namworld: For running SD would be a clearer and simpler way to put it...
smickles: ok, who would you accept as an escrow?
tiberiusiv: 100btc bet and no im not sending my coins to anyone for 2 years
smickles: are you kidding? why should i risk my coins on your word?
jurov: tiberiusiv then get 100btc worth of sdice and short it
smickles: there is always risk to things
Bugpowder: Why the f would you sequester coins for 2 years.
Bugpowder: you can make SO MUCH from those coins
Bugpowder: for example, you could have bought calls last night
tiberiusiv: just make sure you have them when the time runs out
smickles: I'm not doing this without an escrow because i don't trust you
Namworld: ye using my Options spreadsheet bugpowder?
smickles: no because you won't accept any escrow in the world
Namworld: But my spreadsheet gives so much info...
Bugpowder: I generally just buy around the strike
nanotube: tiberiusiv: here's the thing: if you plan to walk away if you lose, then the expected value of the bet to smickles is -50btc. (because he pays if he loses, but gets nothing if he wins)
nanotube: that's the point of the escrow, to make sure that one party is not planning to default in case of loss.
tiberiusiv: the chances of smickles not paying are higher then me
smickles: nanotube: thank you for being more articulate than me
Bugpowder: buy strikes around the currnet vwap
smickles: tiberiusiv: i would escrow too
Namworld: nanotube is the most trusted escrow arounds. He runs OTC and has escrowed far larger sums.
nanotube: smickles: at any rate, 2 years is a long time... so even with escrow i'd probably not bet on this. :)
tiberiusiv: yea im not giving someone 100btc for 2 years
Namworld: Usually people just let nanotube handle escrow for bets and such.
nanotube: smickles: make it 1btc. in 2 years 1btc will equal 100btc today :D
nanotube: tiberiusiv: i just advised smickles not to take the risk. if you both decide you want to, then i'm not going to stand in your way ;)
smickles: tiberiusiv: would you use an escrow for a different amount?
tiberiusiv: smickles: how about all of your BTC? none escrow
mjr_: stupid offer really
mjr_: you are not betting your bitcoins...you are betting your promise to pay bitcoins
smickles: tiberiusiv: I'm not doing the bet w/o a both party escrow. Are you willing to do any amount with an escrow?
mjr_: which i would not estimate is worth nearly 100 btc
tiberiusiv: my holdings are probably some of the hihgest in this chat.
mjr_: not questioning that
tiberiusiv: smickles: no 2 years is too long to have in someone i dont know escrow
mjr_: no one in any financial market would make an anonymous non collateralized bet 2 years out on a nebulous outcome
smickles: tiberiusiv: i never said it had to be someone you don't know
mjr_: you don't know nanotube?
smickles: the idea of an escrow is that we both trust the escrow
mjr_: my point is...promise to pay is not the same as coins in the bank...no one would say that it is
nanotube: well, if there are no mutually trusted third parties, i guess this is a non-starter.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nanotube!~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube . User nanotube, rated since Mon Nov 8 10:14:09 2010. Cumulative rating 674, from 186 total ratings. Received ratings: 186 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 177 positive, 7 negative. Details:
http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=nanotube mjr_: lol, is that the highest rating in all of otc?
gribble: This user has not yet been rated. WARNING: Currently not authenticated.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask smickles!~smickles@67.222.146.32 . User smickles, rated since Wed Jan 4 18:28:52 2012. Cumulative rating 90, from 51 total ratings. Received ratings: 50 positive, 1 negative. Sent ratings: 51 positive, 6 negative. Details:
http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=smickles smickles: mjr_: i don't think nano is the highest rated
smickles: Bugpowder: yeah, for saying he defaulted on that contract
mjr_: you'd need to get registered with gribble
gribble: Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
mjr_: then build up trust through transactions
Bugpowder: nanotube founded the otc market, right?
mjr_: its called the web of trust and its the closest thing to a credit rating system that exists
mjr_: the idea of web of trust systems is not unique to bitcoin, nor started by it
mjr_: anyway, without a more clear definition (stock trades below .00001 or something that is easily verifiable) it isn't a good bet
mjr_: since we are talking about risks in investing in S.DICE
mjr_: it'd be easier and smarter to do options on the stock expiring two years out
smickles: mircea_popescu: you might be interested in the logs of here starting at 21:26 utc
mjr_: either tiberiusiv selling a call or smickles selling a put...or some more complex combination
tiberiusiv: mircea would agree with everything i said about sdice
jurov: DRINK! <tiberiusiv> mircea would agree with everything i said about sdice
Namworld: What can I do to borrow some of that capital, smickles?
Namworld: Can I put some stock in escrow?
Namworld: clever idea... let bitbet take not open to the public bets. Would require some coding tho
ThickAsThieves: but still have an option to leave them visible to public
jurov: teh market says "No".. at least not till june
tiberiusiv: thats very shaky confidence especially for june
tiberiusiv: well bitbet would have to climb twenty fold
jurov: but if s.dice gets really seized this year, it would happen
mjr_: this looks like a good bank
jurov: and it's normal on bitbet that if anything gets over 90%/10% there are "just in case" bets arriving that push the odds back to middle
jurov: so it isn't necessarily "shaky" indication
tiberiusiv: we have 2 venues that are pricing major uncertainty on sdice
mjr_: do they have to take the servers physically?
tiberiusiv: 30% yes bets in 90days? 30%+ dividend yield on the stock...
tiberiusiv: yes i know bbet is illiquid, mpex is illquid and inefficient blah blah blah
jurov: tiberiusiv put some serious money on that former bet, you will get the liquidity
ThickAsThieves: actually i'd love it if you put 100btc against sdice on that bet
jurov: well, then make new one
mjr_: or should we say privately held
mjr_: as evoorhees is the only manager
mjr_: which is what smickles has been trying to tell you
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