assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2100 @ 0.00477613 = 10.0299 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1300 @ 0.0047582 = 6.1857 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.48 = 3.84 BTC [-]
smickles: nice to see more things in the ass
smickles: 22:04 <@assbot> [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.48 = 3.84 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 296 @ 0.0047582 = 1.4084 BTC [-]
Anduck: mircea_popescu: u from wut country?
Anduck: i'm just telling irl friend about you and MPEX and how much one can make btc in a month by owning such exchange
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C120T] 1 @ 0.16091948 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P120T] 1 @ 0.0647318 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C130T] 1 @ 0.132 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P130T] 1 @ 0.09130116 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C140T] 1 @ 0.1 BTC [-]
Anduck: don't you own like 800k of S.MPOE?
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 1 @ 0.12379657 BTC [-]
Namworld: Mircea is not alone working on MPEx...
Anduck: Namworld: who coded mpe?
Namworld: He got a small team of unkown size
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1800 @ 0.00463954 = 8.3512 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: one of these days you should splurge 20 bitcoins' worth of reading and read the faq lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4348 @ 0.00459059 = 19.9599 BTC [-]
Anduck: it might cause brain damage, though
Anduck: how many mpex-like exchanges there is?
Anduck: is mpex just another brick in the wall?
mircea_popescu: there's about half a dozen, but mpex has 9x% of the volume
Anduck: which was bigger at the end of glbse, mpex or glbse?
Anduck: (btw, nobody was enough as to notice my PF-references??)
Anduck: is it S.DICE that makes it bigger, only?
Anduck: mircea_popescu: s.mpoe wouldnt be without S.DICE...
smickles: mircea_popescu: how about those mpex futures
Anduck: there wouldnt be S.MPOE if there was no S.DICE, right, mircea_popescu?
smickles: not all that popular, it seems
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C120T] 1 @ 0.16089199 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P120T] 1 @ 0.06470431 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: actually mpex trade record was sometime in september, just about when glbse was crashing
smickles: mircea_popescu: a problem with them is that btc are expected to rise, so buying those futures is like cashing out of btc
smickles: if the options were cheaper, it might work
smickles: as if you could pull that off tho
mircea_popescu: the real macro problem here is that because btc and fiat are so badly decoupled
mircea_popescu: i guess in a backwards way the futures uptake is a measure of btc/fiat decouplement.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 650 @ 0.00461461 = 2.9995 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 350 @ 0.00459059 = 1.6067 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2300 @ 0.00468211 = 10.7689 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1986 @ 0.00459059 = 9.1169 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9750 @ 0.0006446 = 6.2849 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156750 @ 0.00066 = 103.455 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1689 @ 0.00449001 = 7.5836 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: beats working. Dealmaking is exciting and fun, and working is
kakobrekla: grubby. Running anything is primarily an enormous amount of
kakobrekla: grubby detail work . . . dealmaking is romantic, sexy. That's
kakobrekla: why you have deals that make no sense."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3442 @ 0.00449001 = 15.4546 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla that's why you have a bunch of sitcom people doing "entrepreneurship" rutines these days.
mod6: jurov: pass me a glo stick
kakobrekla: btw, that quote is from Buffets shareholder letter
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1900 @ 0.00450904 = 8.5672 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 314 @ 0.0045325 = 1.4232 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1508 @ 0.00457957 = 6.906 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1day: 0.00449 / 0.00469837 / 0.0047888 (544375 shares, 2,557.68 BTC), 30day: 0.0014 / 0.0033951 / 0.0048 (13880020 shares, 47,124.18 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 239 @ 0.00468211 = 1.119 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1361 @ 0.00472449 = 6.43 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: The BIGGEST NEWS at BFL @ CES is.... Android mining software
Bugpowder: Looks like their mini rig SC demo is gettin 980MH/s
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin Flakes Laboratories consist of a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.
kakobrekla: lol wtf are they gonna resell rooted nexuses
mircea_popescu: i would guess the battery cost would make phone mining impossible
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.48 = 24 BTC [-]
jurov: they can mine while charging
Anduck: why they dont use some cheap chinese tabs...
jurov: or decommissioned 386's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3907 @ 0.00458881 = 17.9285 BTC [-]
Anduck: they could even resell them with permission as a part of their own product
error3477: wtf... [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.48 = 24 BTC [-]
jurov: error3477 that's their passthrough 1000 S.DICE:1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2975 @ 0.00472449 = 14.0554 BTC [+]
jurov: no sry, it's 100:1
jurov: when assbot will report sdice pt's from btct&bitfunder...now that will be hilarious
jurov: S.DICE to rule them all, S.DICE to find them, S.DICE to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2900 @ 0.00466745 = 13.5356 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 64 @ 0.00472449 = 0.3024 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4936 @ 0.00478699 = 23.6286 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1200 @ 0.00466745 = 5.6009 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 349 @ 0.00466042 = 1.6265 BTC [-]
dub: wats with the hashrate variance on that BFL 'roid
dub: high ambient at CES making it throttle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2400 @ 0.00466042 = 11.185 BTC [-]
JWU42: they have a working prototype at CES?
dub: they have an android bfgminer skin
dub: and a rig chassis with a nexus 7 on the front
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.48 = 2.4 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 900 @ 0.00478696 = 4.3083 BTC [+]
gigavps: this bASIC drama is a bit overwhelming
JWU42: just starting idling in there
Anduck: okay i ask this again: who
Anduck: who's first shipping asics out or mining with them?
Anduck: ASICs are never coming..?
Anduck: hopefully.. but who realistically?
Anduck: i got no rigs ordered from anywhere
Anduck: except i got a few asicminer shares
gigavps: avalon is now saying they don't know how much is going to ship before cny
gigavps: asicminer still has a month to get theirs up
gigavps: basic is under the bus with all of their customers upset
Anduck: but u gotta admit that the notification was shiit
Anduck: i think asicminer 'll be first
Anduck: atleast theyve gave pics of some chips
Anduck: (might be asic, might be not)
mircea_popescu: cause at least they don't have a bunch of customers pissy
dub: somebody in #bitcoin a few hours ago said they got an email from BFL yesterday quoting a march ship
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu just like you have an "exchange" with "shareholders"
mircea_popescu: teh ppl with asicminer shares get pissed off what are they gonna do ? sell on forum ?
dub: prolly not, he named himself after his fav food
Namworld: hey gigavps, how long till your lawyer answers?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 354 @ 0.00473087 = 1.6747 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2496 @ 0.00476298 = 11.8884 BTC [+]
dub: I havent looked and don't have keys handy, is coinbr letting us place bitbet orders for the IPO?
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 8 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <smickles> as if you could pull that off tho
jurov: dub, if you want to fund, hurry.
jurov: i'll go to sleep, then before i wake up, mircea will go to sleep, etc.
dub: jurov: still 2 days away from IPO no?
jurov: yeash, we'll manage to get the funds in place till that
assbot: [MPEX:S.BVPS] 1day: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 30day: 0.00200003 / 0.0034158 / 0.0067 (14758 shares, 50.41 BTC)
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller a little more complex system, it's in teh contract.
dub: I take it the third comment is suggesting if MPOE is goes so does btc
mircea_popescu: dub i like the odds tho. it's like... 300:1 but "we win nothing"
dub: dude that captcha is HARD
dub: roman numerals, what is this, junior school
Anduck: why is there no clear odds?
Anduck: u win ur bet 1.54 times
Anduck: it doesnt say clearly how much you win if you bet x amount
Anduck: there's no multiplier!!!
Anduck: should state like Yes: 1.35, No: 1.679whatevr
mircea_popescu: i can't believe people's reaction is "we should be stolen from".
mircea_popescu: dude. the absence of a bookie means you're not being fucked in the ass.
dub: I demand an assfucking!
dub: let me click right on that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 754 @ 0.00476298 = 3.5913 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 736 @ 0.00478696 = 3.5232 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1100 @ 0.00467325 = 5.1406 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 222 @ 0.00467325 = 1.0375 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00065877 = 1.581 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1500 @ 0.00478696 = 7.1804 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00478247 = 1.913 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1051 @ 0.00471275 = 4.9531 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 383 @ 0.00467325 = 1.7899 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 376 @ 0.00467325 = 1.7571 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1043 @ 0.00466765 = 4.8684 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 31 @ 0.00466042 = 0.1445 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: mpex safety announcement : mpex uses no ruby on rails or anything else at all.
dub: vim: the one true CMS
mircea_popescu: update their systems as soon as possible to versions 3.2.11, 3.1.10, 3.0.19, or 2.3.15
dub: fuck this si some mind numbing shit
dub: building network records
gribble: Ukto was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 1 hour, 2 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Ukto> I was actually just thinking about contacting you
smickles: heh, thestringpuller has been replaced by ;;seen-bot
kakobrekla: to whoever might be interested, you can now search bitbet by bitcoin address, and mix that with keywords etc
Ukto: thestringpuller: havent had a chance to test
Ukto: my computer tried to die
Ukto: it will take me a few days to test
Ukto: i think it will take at least 10hrs of play to get to disc2
smickles: Ukto: the original baldur's gate?
smickles: there were 5 or 6 disks on that game
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 13.80302, Best ask: 13.82999, Bid-ask spread: 0.02697, Last trade: 13.83000, 24 hour volume: 39611.17893164, 24 hour low: 13.55011, 24 hour high: 13.87998, 24 hour vwap: 13.73806
smickles: agreed, I find myself going back to it from time to time
Ukto: hadntl played bg in a long time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1236 @ 0.00466572 = 5.7668 BTC [+]
Namworld: baldur's gate is nice. So is FF7
mircea_popescu: Not really. They're not at the LVCC, but at the Sands Convention Centre. That's like half an hour away from the "real" CES.
mircea_popescu: "What makes it possible to buy drugs with Tide is not because Tide is useful as a detergent. It’s because drug dealers and users have agreed that it is currency."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1079 @ 0.0046899 = 5.0604 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 588 @ 0.00469194 = 2.7589 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 380 @ 0.00469194 = 1.7829 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00469194 = 1.8768 BTC [+]
gribble: 1 BTC = 13.75002 U.S. dollars = 10.5227061 Euros
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 800 @ 0.00466572 = 3.7326 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1150 @ 0.00468285 = 5.3853 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: yeah, that entire article is full of shit
Diablo-D3: its the only one left on the market that they havent raped the forumula to
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 264 @ 0.00466572 = 1.2318 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 308 @ 0.00466042 = 1.4354 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00065877 = 3.4915 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 563 @ 0.00466042 = 2.6238 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 237 @ 0.00465713 = 1.1037 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 900 @ 0.00468285 = 4.2146 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 650 @ 0.00466274 = 3.0308 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 800 @ 0.00466274 = 3.7302 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 350 @ 0.00465822 = 1.6304 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 450 @ 0.00465713 = 2.0957 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 50 @ 0.00468285 = 0.2341 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 450 @ 0.00468405 = 2.1078 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 282 @ 0.00469194 = 1.3231 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1620 @ 0.00471475 = 7.6379 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: However, recent evidence suggests that Duqu may have been written in Object Oriented C (OO C) and compiled in Microsoft Visual Studio 2008.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1277 @ 0.00465713 = 5.9472 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 236 @ 0.00465713 = 1.0991 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1070 @ 0.0046549 = 4.9807 BTC [-]
Namworld: I have to learn to stop clicking on polimedia links.
Namworld: I don't know why but I can never read anything.
mircea_popescu: "If there were more robust security, in the bit coin infrastructure. I'd consider it, but as its setup now, not very likely. "
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoins, in theory, could become the next universal currency. However, they are a pain to obtain (if you're not buying them outright) and the security model could use some work."
Namworld: "the security model" could use some work.
JohnGalt2: yeah those morons want centralized shit and to reverse transactions. Because that's what they used to and they gave all their responsibilities to nanny governments
mircea_popescu: this very entrenched western notion that everyone's entitled to an opinion.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 330 @ 0.00471475 = 1.5559 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 682 @ 0.00472303 = 3.2211 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 188 @ 0.00473903 = 0.8909 BTC [+]
Namworld: Someone should post something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1312 @ 0.00473903 = 6.2176 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 650 @ 0.00474657 = 3.0853 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 38 @ 0.00474845 = 0.1804 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: im gonna open a chocholate beer i think
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9292 @ 0.00064183 = 5.9639 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4354 @ 0.00063645 = 2.7711 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1681 @ 0.0006363 = 1.0696 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1300 @ 0.00471394 = 6.1281 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 700 @ 0.00468492 = 3.2794 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1200 @ 0.00468424 = 5.6211 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2300 @ 0.0046549 = 10.7063 BTC [-]
Namworld: Ok, well maybe we need to get some "stupidized" bitcoin explanation
Namworld: A bitcoin for dummies kind of thing...
Namworld: Well because it needs to be super short for the short attention span of people inquiring about Bitcoins.
Namworld: Well although I guess we already have that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 710 @ 0.00474845 = 3.3714 BTC [+]
Graet: we will get them whether they want opr not
JohnGalt2: because we want the stupid people money
Graet: most of them dont really understand how fiat or credit cards actually "work" but use them daily, but feel they need to know every intracacy of bitcoin before using it
Namworld: We don't want them, we want the business. Why is apple making so much money? For selling easy to use and elegant products. And they milk their customer base as much as possible.
mircea_popescu: Graet yes, we will get them either way. they're worthless. why bother ?
Namworld: They don't need to even know that much about Bitcoin.
Graet: thats what i said Namworld ;)
mircea_popescu: we are exactly diametrically opposed in every single aspect
mircea_popescu: simple example : satoshi is dead, btc benefits from it. jobs is dead, apple is doomed.
JohnGalt2: if btc benefits from a dead satoshi, then let's kill him?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00474564 = 4.7456 BTC [-]
Namworld: Probably not that great a comparison. But they don't need to know that much about it. If they didn't have such misconception of Bitcoins, they wouldn't oppose using it and could use a third party processor. Yes, there's still the payment processor, but there's less fees and it doesn't support the archaic closed credit card/banking system.
mircea_popescu: JohnGalt2 im just making the point that in the sense jobs is dead (ie, no longer driving apple) so is satoshi
mircea_popescu: Namworld their misconceptions are for the greater good.
mircea_popescu: their business is very expensive. rape-them-in-the-ass corps like banks etc are very good at keeping their idiocy expensiveness low while turning a buck
Namworld: What impact does it make that they'd use Bitcoins?
mircea_popescu: but the effort and expertise involved in doing this are much more than what's needed to make asics
JohnGalt2: Namworld: A lot of the stupid people don't want to have fancy internet money without having a possibility to reverse transactions
JohnGalt2: They're not used it to it because of their nanny governments
mircea_popescu: it costs to supply their needs more than they are capable of paying.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 902 @ 0.00474845 = 4.2831 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 700 @ 0.00475265 = 3.3269 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00475518 = 2.3776 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2274 @ 0.00477726 = 10.8635 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: why do you think banks wouldn't take most poor people's accounts if they weren't legally forced to ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 35624 @ 0.00478695 = 170.5303 BTC [+]
Namworld: I don't see that argument as valid. As the supplier, you set the price and service provided for it.
JohnGalt2: I don't think every user needs to understand how bitcoin works entirely. I don't, I'm not interested in the IT stuff, I'm interested in the moneyz stuf
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1day: 0.00449 / 0.004709 / 0.004787 (583698 shares, 2,748.64 BTC), 30day: 0.0014 / 0.00340446 / 0.0048 (13963747 shares, 47,539.11 BTC)
Namworld: That you take bitcoins or not, your local government could force you to provide services regardless.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 13.70001, Best ask: 13.72855, Bid-ask spread: 0.02854, Last trade: 13.70000, 24 hour volume: 32942.91842052, 24 hour low: 13.61100, 24 hour high: 13.87998, 24 hour vwap: 13.76016
kakobrekla: most of people driving cars dont know how internal combustion works.
kakobrekla: its same with anything thats more than a stick and a stone and many people use
Namworld: I'm not talking about internet only. Just various other services.
mircea_popescu: point remains. we don't want the average joe and his 3-9 dollar transaction.
mircea_popescu: nobody does eitgher, but that's besides the point. we don't,.
Namworld: What if I sell 3-9 dollars thing?
kakobrekla: i dont care if joe comes or not, i just know he doenst have to know how it works to use it
JohnGalt2: Yes, we do want Joe with his 3-9 dollarz. Bitcoin needs growth, maybe he'll buy more bitcoins after that
mircea_popescu: because, Namworld, the costs of administering this sort of business exceed your profits from doing it.
kakobrekla: in RL the biggest cost of small bills are the billing itself
mircea_popescu: it doesn't really depend. we have centuries of accumulated experience in trade. by now things are pretty well known
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00478695 = 1.9148 BTC [+]
Namworld: But it does not exceed the costs... otherwise capitalism wouldn't work because pretty much nothing brings any profit?
Bugpowder: Details 2013-01-09 01:51:31 lessthan 16000 de2012c9 3148068f 1HbHbFK CONFIRMED 435.00000000 LOSE 2.17450000 41970 Details 2013-01-09 01:50:43 lessthan 16000 d463f567 faa9a2d8 19LQ1zn CONFIRMED 435.00000000 LOSE 2.17450000 53146 Details 2013-01-09 01:49:33 lessthan 16000 f3d916d3 c4273fff 1Bw9MTr CONFIRMED 435.00000000 LOSE 2.17450000 52002 Details 2013-01-09 01:48:04 lessthan 16000 881eda89 5a2d111b 1Fh2Rjd CONFIRMED 327.680
Namworld: Well than all consumerism in america is unprofitable if the 3-9 dollar transaction exceeds profits.
Namworld: That bottle of Coke that costs 10 cent to make is not profitable to sell under 1$ and Coke doesn't earn any revenue.
mircea_popescu: the 3-9 transactions work on an economy of scale model
mircea_popescu: if you aggregate one billion of them you can squeeze a little profit
mircea_popescu: but you lack all the many tools that the banks use to turn this green.
Namworld: and Bitcoin is designed to further help the profit margin. The bitcoin is designed to facilitate micro-transactions.
mircea_popescu: the fact that it is designed to do it does not mean you are the one to do it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 150 @ 0.00474564 = 0.7118 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: that is true, yet i have seen bitcoin margins so ridiculusly high, you dont need volume
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 291 @ 0.00467378 = 1.3601 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 556 @ 0.0046549 = 2.5881 BTC [-]
Namworld: For which transaction fees would be too large for 1-5$ transactions.
kakobrekla: why are the margins like they are, thats another question
mircea_popescu: the fact that asic fab plants are designed to make custom chips
mircea_popescu: in principle, for every degree of magnitude the transaction goes down, your fixed costs go up one and a half.
mircea_popescu: you need to be a multi-billion corp to process sub 10 dollar transactions effectually.
mircea_popescu: note, im not saying that by 2050 or w/e all these fabulous economies of scale baked in by design won't be working full bore
mircea_popescu: all im saying is that the average small biz does not find itself in a position to do this.
mircea_popescu: 90%+ of all small businesses that tried bitcoin discovered this on their own timeand dime
mircea_popescu: this obviously is unavoidable, seeing how they couldn't afford to hire me to tell them this, and wouldn't have made sense of it anyway.
Namworld: Well then we also don't need small gamblers on SatoshiDice or BitVPS is not profitable with it's sub 10 dollar plans. So are small sellers accepting bitcoins and etc, online or not.
Bugpowder: S.DICE benefits from small gamblers
mircea_popescu: Namworld the hosting industry may be the one single place where my above judgements may be shown mistaken
kakobrekla: Buglouse blockchain suffers from small gambers on sd
Bugpowder: and incremental transaction costs are near zero
mircea_popescu: and s.dice takes small gamblers because it's very easy to provide the service to them.
Namworld: Well it's indeed quite mostly automation and all online.
JohnGalt: 3-9$ transactions would work fine for small takeaway or coffee shops
mircea_popescu: no gambler can pick up the phone and complain about damaged deliveries.
Namworld: But that's exactly the problem that would get solved without such opposition. Bitcoin could get lower transaction costs with easier availability through more demand/offer.
mircea_popescu: JohnGalt it has been proven not to work > 20 times so far.
Namworld: using phones to pay in bitcoins wuld be feasible for a much lower fee than the credit card conglomerate/payment processors are trying to offer.
Namworld: Which would allow even small shop to process smaller transactions with more profitability.
Namworld: Agreed that it's not currently feasible.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter what the payment "costs" in your estimation.
mircea_popescu: what matters is how much dealing with people ACTUALLY costs.
Namworld: Dealing with someone who enters and at the register pays for something is fast and inexpensive...
mircea_popescu: that further means you will be spending your time doing the impossible.
mircea_popescu: such as, for instance, explaining to those idiots on that article quoted why they're wrong
mircea_popescu: this feat costs exponentially more the dumber they are.
kakobrekla: >>See that picture ? The poor schmucks in that picture are likely more intelligent, more dilligent and generally better human beings than Gobry. Unfortunately for them, they didn’t have the obscene good fortune of being born in this part of the world. As a result, they’re dicking around packing mud while this worthless fuckwit goes about farting self-delusions of “strategic global
Bugpowder: was from one guy starting with a 0.01BTC bet on less than 16000, and doubling it every loss
Namworld: Yes. But as far as I know most most brick and mortar business have to do that bitcoin or not and while not all manage to succeed at it, many remain in business, wether small or large.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason for chains and franchises and payment processors being centralised
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu are those chaps unfortunate or stupid?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the problem with macroeconomy is that those terms aren't distinct.
mircea_popescu: think in terms of girl looking for a husband. does she care if he;'s lucky or smart ?
Namworld: The reason is that it's more cost effective and branding brings clients.
mircea_popescu: no namworld. the reason is that people can't afford to stay in business
mircea_popescu: under the crushing pressure of the huge costs of the 3-9 dollars transaction.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 900 @ 0.0046549 = 4.1894 BTC [-]
Namworld: but those costs are very close for a chain convenience store or a personally owned one, for example... there's plenty of non-affiliated small businesses handling small transactions left.
mircea_popescu: go try and complain to your phone company, as a fuine example.
Namworld: Well I can't speak for Romania. But I see small businesses staying around and in all apparence, doing well.
mircea_popescu: and even those have been taking a beating of horror past 10-20 years.
kakobrekla: small businesses are small businesses cause they arent large businesses
Namworld: Just as I see small providers competing with larger corps with better services. They still turn a profit and stick around.
mircea_popescu: small businesses are either a) going bankrupt (happens to 90% ish of them) or else in a new niche.
Namworld: It's harder and there's less margins. It's just not impossible.
mircea_popescu: im sorry, you must be from an alternate universe. why would i be doing something at a competitive disadvantage ?
Namworld: Because if you work for the corporation, you get paid even less.
Namworld: Your margins are lower for the business, but the profit is better for the owner. As for employees, they're probably paid a similar pay.
Namworld: Well there's incentive as to create and keep the small business running as long as that advantage for the owner exists.
mircea_popescu: in general it's irrational to expend your resources at a comparative disadvantage.
Namworld: That you have a 20% margin and your large competitor has 30% matters not if you get enough sales at 20% that you get a nice yearly earning.
Namworld: The owners just has to work for it. But I think that's a work/reward ratio that's still attractive.
Bugpowder: the more profitable one will crush you
mircea_popescu: they might destroy you even if you have 10x their margins
mircea_popescu: but to go into this when they hold the upper hand is folly.
Namworld: It is folly, maybe. Many fails on that path. Most small businesses go bankrupt indeed. But some succeed.
Namworld: That this percentage is quite low matters not. It remains an incentive to exploit any opportunity.
Namworld: Bitcoins could help by making small transactions more accessible at lower costs.
mircea_popescu: they will make more expensive customers accessible,w hich will sink you.
Namworld: Well if it hasn't sunk small convenience stores and shops/restaurants, and still don't, I don't see why that would change anything.
Namworld: They already cater to the most "expensive" customers.
mircea_popescu: the most expensive customer in the world is the guy buying a 3-9 dollar trinket over the internet.
Namworld: Well I don't purport bitcoins would be good for users buying online for small amounts.
Namworld: I say they would in lieu of credit card for small transaction in shops.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 675 @ 0.00475997 = 3.213 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 525 @ 0.00478695 = 2.5131 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: merchant wants ensured funds, customer wants reversible transaction and balance protection
mircea_popescu: cc companies offer all these, and rely on the state to police it all.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin has not the subsidy of the state, and can't offer either safety for the merchant or reversibility for the customer.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin exists so a guy in china can be paid for 10 containers of tvs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 890 @ 0.00478695 = 4.2604 BTC [+]
Namworld: Well agreed that as a vehicle for transfer of value for large transactions, bitcoins would be ideal.
mircea_popescu: once it becomes the standard there it will trickle down
Namworld: Well I'm not saying right away bitcoins should be used in shops...
mircea_popescu: and keep fucking over small business owners and customers.
Namworld: I don't believe we're anywhere near that level.
Namworld: I'm just saying misconception and bad press hinders bitcoins adoption and that they would prove useful given the right tools.
mircea_popescu: obviously once we build scale and capital and knowhow we'll be able to dislodge larger and larger chunks
mircea_popescu: but for now the focus on small busionesses is simply the tell-talle effect of incompetence and impotence in the bitcoin camp.
mircea_popescu: people don't know the people they should be talking to, don't know how to find them, don't dare approach them
Namworld: Ah. I merely wanted that misconception be cleared so there's less opposition. Better public view/demand for something increase the chance the people that matter will hear about, either through family or other connections.
mircea_popescu: just as it was best for mpex that all the glbse idjits hated it
Namworld: I'm not sure what advantage that has.
mircea_popescu: keeps the expensive people out and so saves our resources.
Namworld: They can't pay the entry fee anyway...
Namworld: If they want something they can't, they talk more about it than something they'd dismiss.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 937 @ 0.0046549 = 4.3616 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 113 @ 0.00464997 = 0.5254 BTC [-]
Namworld: Which can attracts the attention of the people you want.
mircea_popescu: well bitcoin's problem is that it doesn't have who to put an entrance fee.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1318 @ 0.00464997 = 6.1287 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1400 @ 0.00478699 = 6.7018 BTC [+]
Namworld: You allow withdrawals as low as 0.0005 BTC? Isn't that catering to small transactions?
Namworld: I think I could hardly bother with anything less than 1 BTC.
Namworld: Oh, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I probably hallucinated my previous withdrawed bitcoins. Have a good day sir.
Namworld: But, in all seriousness, I just made a 40 BTC withdrawal request.
Namworld: It seems someone is selling my debt under par value and I wish to purchase it.
Namworld: The contract says upon request I'll pay par value and the email is right there along the contract but no one seems to bother requesting. Quite odd.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 450 @ 0.00478378 = 2.1527 BTC [-]
Namworld: I've had the notice before you notified here. I do like the confirmation speed.
Namworld: Thank you for the prompt service.
Namworld: Well, now I even get to know who put those under par on the market...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1689 @ 0.00478699 = 8.0852 BTC [+]
Namworld: Okay... they manage 1 billion... that website is so basic... They probably pay a premium for the website and they manage to screw up the contact us link...
Namworld: Things get misaligned. Seems like no one thought of the poor contact page.
Namworld: Well the contact page from either sub-section works. At least.
Namworld: Just not from the main page =/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00476739 = 4.7674 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00476739 = 4.7674 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 983 @ 0.00476739 = 4.6863 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 17 @ 0.00477127 = 0.0811 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 483 @ 0.00477127 = 2.3045 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 700 @ 0.00478628 = 3.3504 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2426 @ 0.00478919 = 11.6186 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1day: 0.00449 / 0.00468334 / 0.00478919 (362534 shares, 1,697.87 BTC), 30day: 0.0014 / 0.00341561 / 0.0048 (14083889 shares, 48,105.09 BTC)
jurov: Diablo-D3, do you watch KHL? we should set up some bets, too
jurov: i don't watch it much, but i saw todays' match in a gym so it occurred it to me
jurov: continental hockey league
jurov: ex-USSR + czechoslovakia
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1900 @ 0.00478919 = 9.0995 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 5000 @ 0.00478919 = 23.946 BTC [+]
mod6: the NHL is back from its lockout too fwiw. Just in time for BitBet :]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1200 @ 0.00476061 = 5.7127 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1087 @ 0.00478919 = 5.2058 BTC [+]
dub: how do you get to the market on bitfunder
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3800 @ 0.00476061 = 18.0903 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 653 @ 0.0047606 = 3.1087 BTC [-]
jurov: flowers for mpoe-pr, what else :)
jcpham: poor thing. no one pays her attention it seems
mod6: i thought it was a good round up
jcpham: i hope she doesn't scare journalists away
mod6: someone needs to set these guys straight. and she's been spot on for over a year.
mircea_popescu: moreover. if you scare some dood away, could he have been a journalist ?
dub: im sure I saw a market page on bitfunder yesterday
dub: or do I need more coffee
jurov: dub, why? yes there's more stuff there now.
dub: all I see is an asset list
jurov: you think there was more yest?
dub: the asset list is the market page? its just a list of btc addresses with stock balances
dub: I must be mistaking it with another site
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 850 @ 0.00477962 = 4.0627 BTC [+]
dub: nearly positivie it was bitfunder
dub: maybe its a browser problem
dub: are there any sites not in the topic?
topace: kakobrekla: assbot isnt showing havelock trades
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 150 @ 0.00477962 = 0.7169 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 350 @ 0.0047606 = 1.6662 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1015 @ 0.00478699 = 4.8588 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 35 @ 0.00478919 = 0.1676 BTC [+]
dub: pretty sure I looked at it last night
dub: but I can only find news|asset list|t&c
dub: if it is there, its very well hidden
dub: yeah tbqh accurate or not its hard to see how the post would produce anything but negative PR
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1337 @ 0.00478919 = 6.4031 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "Can someone with a seat on the board say if they're getting more update than that ?
mircea_popescu: Nope, so far board members do not have more info than what is provided in this thread."
dub: mircea_popescu: the feet kissing post
dub: its seldom productive to rub peoples faces in their own shit, expecially a bunch of nobodies
mircea_popescu: here it's important, i think, because otherwise the flavour of the entire thing slowly turns to shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 230 @ 0.0047606 = 1.0949 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 620 @ 0.0047341 = 2.9351 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Chinese new year or not this a bad time of year to rely on devices that rely so heavily on parts from countries that celebrate the near years and the up coming spring festival."
mircea_popescu: pity asicminer didn't have its shares up, it'd have made a killing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 180 @ 0.0047341 = 0.8521 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 612 @ 0.00470933 = 2.8821 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 746 @ 0.00470933 = 3.5132 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.00470766 = 0.9415 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 862 @ 0.00470766 = 4.058 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 438 @ 0.00478919 = 2.0977 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4350 @ 0.00478919 = 20.833 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: everything is under control, dont panic.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1100 @ 0.00478919 = 5.2681 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: o wait, i guess that bitfinex stolen code thing also ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [test] 1 @ 0.00000001 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.5 = 4.5 BTC [+]
gribble: Nick 'Namworld', with hostmask 'Namworld!~BTC-Minin@modemcable075.132-23-96.mc.videotron.ca', is identified as user Namworld, with GPG key id F2758D83EEEDE453, key fingerprint F12DE6B4E1EF26F5768BE918F2758D83EEEDE453, and bitcoin address 1Namjies9JeJ4ugCzjkAj6dbaWrtjAFKCk
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.49 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.5 = 4.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.49 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.5 = 4.5 BTC [+]
gribble: Time since last block: 1 hour and 23 seconds
gribble: Current Blocks: 215901 | Current Difficulty: 3249549.5844872 | Next Difficulty At Block: 217727 | Next Difficulty In: 1826 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3021412.00645230 | Estimated Percent Change: -7.02059076507
gribble: Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | -7.02059076507 % based on data since last change | -5.1399053661 % based on data for last three days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3000 @ 0.00478919 = 14.3676 BTC [+]
smickles: it's too early to tell on the next diff, isn't it?
smickles: kakobrekla: 21:51 -!- assbot [~assbot@78.46.215.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kakobrekla: im doing some changes as we speak smickles
smickles: kakobrekla: cool, just thought i'd let you know :)
smickles: Bugpowder: they are actually shipping now?