rdponticelli: But I found funny some arguments you can found around
smickles: "it's not illegal b/c we didn't use fiat"
rdponticelli: Well, somebody should make a page with the Scammer's arguments
smickles: rdponticelli: do you remember where that came from? I want to source it
rdponticelli: Don't forget: I can't give it back, b/c bitcoins transactions are irreversible
pigeons: it's not a scam if you use bitcoin
kakobrekla: wiki still getting spammed with new users
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00040613 = 1.3808 BTC [-]
pigeons: hmm my ignore of BTC-Mining doesn't work on mircea_popescu's website
pigeons: and Iraq is the 51st state
mircea_popescu: nah, it ain't. had they the sense to make it a state it'd have actually been interesting.
mircea_popescu: pigeons you were the original source of trouble tho weren't you, with linking that blog.
pigeons: oh did I? I don't actually read the things i paste
pigeons: hmm, could have been me but probably not, i don't remember it. I like the comics a lot though
copumpkin: the best one is the one with the pony in it
pigeons: yeah i knew i wasn't that clever
copumpkin: cause the NY criminal lawyer is a brony
BTC-Mining: I'm being spread on the interwebz!1!!1!!!
jurov: mircea, good you weren't here when azephur said he abandoned development because he doesn't wanted to go to jail
BTC-Mining: He abandoned development of what exactly?
mircea_popescu: i'm much more worried about not pushing it hard enough.
pigeons: they hate us for our freedoms!
jurov: he was diong something with mpex back in may, posted some screenshots
mircea_popescu: jurov actually iirc he made a fully functional python script that most everyone uses.
jurov: yes. but he wanted to make something with graphs iirc.
mircea_popescu: jesus blog comment spammers are getting more retarded by the month.
BTC-Mining: ... how would that be illegal in the US?
BTC-Mining: Oh, wait... I remember what they say: "Everyone in the US is a criminal since everything is illegal."
dub: why are project managers universally brain damaged
BTC-Mining: Because people that are not brain damaged are needed to do actual work.
mircea_popescu: the thing is, project managers who aren't brain damaged have much better titles even if what they mostly do is manage projects
BTC-Mining: That's why you put the smart one on a computer and the retard as the manager to whip the troop and be loud.
copumpkin: not sure it's a good counterexample
mircea_popescu: the ones without no better title than pm are like the reserve nobody ever picks
mircea_popescu: copumpkin im not brain damaged, i'm brain damaging. world of difference :D
mircea_popescu: glbse was taking off ? in what paralel universe are we talking ?
mircea_popescu: thing was going to shit, the fact that i killed them back in may finally landed in their thick skulls, quick grab for as much money as possible ensued as part of the unwinding procedures.
mircea_popescu: <Azelphur> the amount of scammers, I'd probably be happier on the regulated one for most things << what are you, retarded ?! seriously now.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: scammers be everywhere
BTC-Mining: wait. Did you just attribute yourself the closure of GLBSE?
EskimoBob: "33:56 thestringpuller | EskimoBob: lets take down Usagi rough shim up." - funny :) I think usagi is taking himself down at the moment. Maybe this is his exit "strategy" and he is going to announce how he feels insulted and leaves for good. A girlish exit lol
Azelphur: perhaps but that's irrelephant to my statement
mircea_popescu: i don't appreciate the misguided attempt to turn that scandal into some sort of "oh, it's what it is"
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining when you go from being the lone player in the market to struggling to keep your 20% share...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00040613 = 1.7057 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: I do not want to start any pissing contest here but whay do you think your exchange is any different than GLBSE (excluding the looks etc)
mod6: and you don't allow any random moron to issue a security
Doffx: Apparently there are only 2 people that are not moron's in his book
mircea_popescu: and on it goes, but i won't bother with all the many countless ways glbse was UNDER the minimum conceivable standard.
EskimoBob: and how is this "it's secure" makes the crapp issued there any less crappier than what GLBSE had listed?
mircea_popescu: Doffx the problem is that most people who would be worthy to list do not want to get involved with what glbse + the forum have convinced them "investors" are
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob have you bothered to read an actual contract there ?
mircea_popescu: your laziness to inform yourself isn't really my responsibility you know.
EskimoBob: yes, thye are funny amateurish copy/paste legalese bull crap
Doffx: Obviously there was plenty of BTC.
Doffx: As far as the investors go I dont really know how to answer that part.
mircea_popescu: Doffx think about it for a second. you've made some nice business that actually makes sense, economically.
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: heh? That's it? Heh? :)
mircea_popescu: unlike the "i will pay you X from secret sources" a la obsi.
mircea_popescu: Doffx now go read the thread where evoorhees announces s.dice, and see what those assholes have to say.
EskimoBob: dude, you and Nefario/Glbse gang are actually the same :)
mircea_popescu: read the part where the girl explains to them they are fucking themselves over, and read their replies.
mircea_popescu: why would the owner want to be involved with the collection of retards that glbse has collected ?
Doffx: So alienate everyone instead?
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob you at some point have to come to terms with the harsh, cold reality that you calling something x or y has little power to make it be x or y.
mircea_popescu: people with 10 btc worth capital and 10k btc worth of bigmouth are NOT useful investors.
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: calling everyone a retard is more like usagis line of defence or proof of some make believe shit
mircea_popescu: it's inadequate to imagine you can speak for "everyone" on the internets.
EskimoBob: OK, everyone was overstatement but lets say most
Doffx: I agree that’s a stupid argument. People want to have a voice, and if educated and or kept informed are usually easy to work with.
mircea_popescu: yes, i fully intend to allienate most self-declared investors on internet forums.
EskimoBob: and that cunt (you in a derss?) is really bad PR
Doffx: I think your just seeing a lot of fallout from Pirate, and now Glbse.
mircea_popescu: i actually think it is irresponsible as a business practice not to.
dub: mircea_popescu: true true, I have a pm buddy that is currently contracted to a bank, as CIO
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: why not educate those retards a bit?
mircea_popescu: this is like saying a college turning down applicants "loses"
Doffx: I told you dummies it was a scam is not very educating, " I told you so " In general usually just puts people off and shuts them down completely.
Doffx: You have a chance to make Mpex the best thing out there I just dont think it will happen.
mircea_popescu: for instance, the cdo post which everyone shunned and then COPIED ?
Doffx: I have, I find her rude, and yes I know shes right it her tone.
Doffx: I find her information useful at the same time she needs to tone it down.
mircea_popescu: now compare the reaction to those two. do people whine about her tone ? surely.
Doffx: I'm not explaining that correctly, but she could really help people if she just went about it in a better way.
mircea_popescu: beatings, frequent and vicious, are the only right way to educate.
mircea_popescu: jurov "polimedia is a forged domain" ?! wtf does that even mean ?!
jurov: idk, just hat they insist it is registered on some restaurant address
BTC-Mining: ... it means... the domain... was crafted by a blacksmith
jurov: i'm done with that discussion and fully satisfied.
darkee: anyone else got an glbse email about an hour ago about restored funds w/o having received anything? kinda makes me wonder if I actually fucked up and gave a wrong btc address for the payout but it's too late to even see which address I put in -.-
BTC-Mining: Why do people "invest" in SatoshiDice...
BTC-Mining: and by invest, I mean bet, not get shares
mircea_popescu: (if this makes anyone feel better, there were likely people who complained about the .us tld, because neustar sent an email, received proof they asked for, declared themsleves satisfied)
mircea_popescu: darkee a lot of people have, and many were here reporting being paid.
darkee: nothing significant, ~20
darkee: still would like to have them ;D
darkee: nah it's ~20 real not power of anything, although 10^20 would be quite nice ^^
BTC-Mining: Guess I was lucky, was amongst the first to be paid and actually got paid.
copumpkin: I am known for being the most evil pumpkin in the land
mircea_popescu: darkee 20 is significant. some people never received anything but we put it down to rounding (which yes, is a horrible practice but what can you say)
Azelphur: copumpkin: don't forget that you're a fed too
darkee: yea guess I'll wait and see until tomorrow, not like I can actually do anything about it for now anyway
copumpkin: I'm thinking of maybe changing job
Azelphur: copumpkin: what you thinking of changing to? :p
mircea_popescu: copumpkin are you one of those otakus that think the janitor always works in a teenage prison school for girls, mostly cleans underwear off the floor and ends up fucking the entire roster ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4896 @ 0.00040845 = 1.9998 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00040954 = 22.0333 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14171 @ 0.0004097 = 5.8059 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20302 @ 0.00041016 = 8.3271 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.00041038 = 17.0308 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.0004133 = 21.161 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37164 @ 0.00041387 = 15.3811 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43735 @ 0.00041511 = 18.1548 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2675 @ 0.00041533 = 1.111 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.0004165 = 10.3292 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00041693 = 0.9589 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00041704 = 5.2964 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.0004171 = 5.2555 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00041713 = 17.6863 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58541 @ 0.0004183 = 24.4877 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00041887 = 21.4043 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00041934 = 7.3804 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1508516 @ 0.00042 = 633.5767 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <Doffx> You have a chance to make Mpex the best thing out there I just dont think it will happen. <<
Doffx: I dunno the links you provided me just proves my point, she turns people away.
Doffx: I dont think it will happen and Ill be honest here.
Doffx: You and her turn people away with your personalities.
mircea_popescu: listen, are you aware in the us people aren't even ALLOWED to invest unless they have millions in property ?
Doffx: Not because I dont think you have the best product.
Doffx: I invest, I dont have to invest in the bullshit markets to invest.
Doffx: Ill be sitting pretty soon as this bullshit falls apart, provided I survive it.
Doffx: I dont want to talk about what I Invest in.
Doffx: Bitcoin, investments sure.
jurov: please at least enlighten us, which product is the best, then?
mircea_popescu: now, the us implementation of many things is the pits, but most of the principles behind it are sound.
Doffx: I'm not attacking you either mircea_popescu because I listen to your advice when I find it valuable.
mircea_popescu: the notion that you shouldn't allow absolutely anyone to "invest" is, imo, sound.
Doffx: You and the girl understand whats going on with all these complicated investment strats, I certainly dont get them.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's also very impopular, given the very particular ethos of the bitcoin community, but something being impopular doesn't make it any less sound.
jurov: hehe, czechoslovakia of 1990's with millions of shareholders comes to mind
mircea_popescu: jurov or the great depression. you know that legend of the guy who overheard his domestics discussing share investments and decided to sell evertrthing ?
mircea_popescu: Joseph Kennedy, father of the late John. F. Kennedy, made the family’s fortune by selling off all his stocks right before the 1929 crash. The carefully crafted media tale, says that Kennedy decided to sell his stocks after overhearing shoeshine boys speculating on the stock market.
BTC-Mining: the S.MPOE has a full 1 billion shares right?
mircea_popescu: (it already has, just 90mn of them are locked till ipo finishes)
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1day: 0.0032 / 0.0033525 / 0.00337 (75800 shares, 254.12 BTC), 30day: 0.0001 / 0.00300231 / 0.0034 (2040952 shares, 6,127.58 BTC)
gribble: Best bid: 11.86, Best ask: 11.8812, Bid-ask spread: 0.02120, Last trade: 11.85, 24 hour volume: 35604, 24 hour low: 11.43, 24 hour high: 12
BTC-Mining: 5 million valuation, earns ~10 - 25k per month
matthewh3: the ex GLBSE asset 'RSM' is now going to use 'coloured coin' to prove ownership and pay dividends. We will look at helping shareholders issue there own assets on Open-Transaction servers valued against there coloured coins. We had enough investment for 180(GH/s) of ASIC's and will be saving 50% of profits towards buying more ASIC's.
mircea_popescu: conceptually tho, i think shares should really work in 1k blocks. so you know, like 40 dollars for "traditional share"
BTC-Mining: The whole coloured coin and Open-Transaction thing seems like a mess.
BTC-Mining: How does one keeps track of their colored coins? One wallet for each?
mircea_popescu: There are other approaches, and the one I have taken is very simple, but it is a working solution (primitively duct-taped and glued together).
mircea_popescu: hm. this may not be such a good ideea with a live company
BTC-Mining: I'd personally stay clear of any such option until there's convenient options for coloured coins.
BTC-Mining: I mean, you have a BTC address tied to asset holders, just use that for communication
BTC-Mining: People can sign requests with their current BTC address
mircea_popescu: . It will be paid to the same address which is registered as the owner of the colored coins - but the receiver will need to be careful when spending the dividends, so it doesn't accidentally spend the transaction that represents the share.
mircea_popescu: while this is in principle a good ideea, the implementation is awful.
BTC-Mining: I can already see people accidentally spending them and people receiving random payments while holding said colored coins and being "wtf?"
mircea_popescu: not only that, but here's a problem : if someone makes 1bn shares of something, this means 1bn satoshi are now out of circulation
matthewh3: no the coloured coins are kept in there own blockchain.info/wallet and dividends go where you want
mircea_popescu: tieing total float to total satoshi float is impossible.'
matthewh3: then people can trade there ownership
mircea_popescu: this means there will never be more than 21`000`000`0000`0000 shares in total, of everything.
matthewh3: yes you can reuse coloured coins from dead assets
mircea_popescu: suppose PPT.A issued colored coins, that's some satoshis colored with PPT.A
mircea_popescu: can i use those satoshis for my new company ? no, i can not, they have to be dead forever.
BTC-Mining: Because if you have dead coins in your possession, you can retag them again for another company I guess.
mircea_popescu: otherwise i inject shareholders into my new company that have no relation to it (provided they kept their original PPT.A colored coins)
matthewh3: central stock exchanges defeat the very idea of bitcoin
BTC-Mining: <mircea_popescu> otherwise i inject shareholders into my new company that have no relation to it (provided they kept their original PPT.A colored coins)
matthewh3: coloured coins and smart property are the future
mircea_popescu: matthewh3 that's nonsense. bitcoin is bitcoin, not stock exchange.
BTC-Mining: No, because you don't have the coins from all shareholders
BTC-Mining: Just part of them and those get recolored.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining i was just envisaging a sort of ICANN mess for satoshi-colored property.
BTC-Mining: But doesn't affect shareholders who kept colored coins of dead assets.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining so then i could color some active companie's coins with my own colors, arbitrarily
mircea_popescu: now a guy holding that double colored coin can't get rid of only one of the two
BTC-Mining: Yes. Now the coins you colored have 2 colors.
mircea_popescu: dude you can't be creating medieval-style tokens of indivisible ownership
matthewh3: goes against your Mpex maybe but coloured coins and smart property are the future of bitcoin
mircea_popescu: if i thought the idea has any merit i could go in and dominate the lot of you lol.
BTC-Mining: I'm in favor of each company issuing their own centrally managed blockchain and leaving Bitcoins alone.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining this may work, especially with merged mining
mircea_popescu: tho it's quite the barrier to entry to new issuers, so there would be requirement for specialised issuers to service them
mircea_popescu: and then those mgiht want to only run 1 chain for all the assets they manage
mircea_popescu: (there's the problem of chainbloat, if you have 100 chains of 2gb each going on your hdd)
matthewh3: once bitcoin market cap goes up the governments will be interested and central exchanges will be the first target. with coloured coins p2p exchanges are possible.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35581 @ 0.00040613 = 14.4505 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20419 @ 0.00040609 = 8.292 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: this may be a good point, but the problems are technical not political atm.
mircea_popescu: there's any number of ways to implement a p2p exchange, this one's pretty much a hack.
BTC-Mining: bah, best yet, have each issuer have their own 1 security exchange script and let people trade on it.
BTC-Mining: If the exchange fails, no other security is affected.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining the costs of maintaining this are non trivial.
mircea_popescu: rather than put each egg on top of a traffic light, you might be better off putting all eggs in one basket and watching that basket.
BTC-Mining: Well colored coins could work if they were on their own blockchain and were not divisible (1 coin = 1 share) and not recolorable.
BTC-Mining: You can then trade those coins for Bitcoins at whatever rate you wish.
BTC-Mining: You could even use the same address. Like if you have 1 sharecoin on address xyz, dividends in bitcoins are sent to bitcoin address xyz
BTC-Mining: You just have two clients watching a different blockchain but using the same address.
matthewh3: coloured coins can be traded at will p2p only at the moment the dividend address need changing manually on trading them.
cellofellow: I'm assuming you don't mean a peer to peer BTC-to-USD exchange? (That'd be cool, though. Not sure how it'd work though.)
mircea_popescu: have a 2ndary chain, which a. can be mergedmined with btc ; b. uses identical addressspace to btc ; has infinite number of coins.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining actually with a little help the main client could have a stocks tab
BTC-Mining: that's what we need. I'm pretty sure the sharecoin concept was already proposed however.
matthewh3: using coloured coins to prove ownership and pay dividends
BTC-Mining: matthewh, no colored bitcoins. I don't like the idea of mixing bitcoins with shares.
BTC-Mining: another blockchain using the same address space
matthewh3: I've already put up a bounty for continued coloured coins development
mircea_popescu: cellofellow tbh this would be a huge effort, nothing for 1 person. we're still playing around the outskirts of specifying it yet anyway.
mircea_popescu: something like, 1 share of each type existant per block mined ?
cellofellow: 1 coder-size jobs don't usually need much funding, but bigger ones would need to be, so once your ideas are somewhat concrete, you know what to do I guess.
matthewh3: then all we need is a p2p way to trade coloured coins for normal coin
BTC-Mining: mircea_popescu... eh... would have to think about that.
mircea_popescu: maybe fixed btc payment per block could work, if the entire thing is administered by some sort of central authority like a professional association of the stock exchanges
mircea_popescu: to make it purely uncentralised would really require some hm
BTC-Mining: I suppose the blockchain could support permanent tainting of coins by the current holders if signed by the holder's address
BTC-Mining: as such, to issue shares, an asset manager would have to buy blank coins from a miner
mircea_popescu: and there's no reward reduction, you just keep getting 1 bn new coins each block
mircea_popescu: so proposed is a paralel blockchain which can be mergedmined with btc and shares the same address space (ie, same key signatures as btc addresses)
mircea_popescu: miners get 1bn coins per block mined, and coins are perma-tained.
mircea_popescu: this could work as a support for a p2p stocks accounting system
mircea_popescu: whoever wants to issue shares has to buy the blanks from a miner that has them blank
Luke-Jr: TD and jgarzik are already working on some kind of smart property system within Bitcoin
Luke-Jr: that's what #bitcoin-dev is for
mircea_popescu: can you get a little over the procedural issues and just discuss on the merits ?
BTC-Mining: Why does it has to use the Bitcoin blockchain?
Luke-Jr: BTC-Mining: how else can you guarantee payment?
dub: might be better with a 'energy lite' coin like a PoS
BTC-Mining: Luke-Jr, by having both the sharecoins and bitcoins sharing the same address space
Luke-Jr: BTC-Mining: the way they're doing it, a single transaction changes ownership of the stock and also remits the payment for it
Luke-Jr: BTC-Mining: address space is irrelevant
BTC-Mining: the address holding the sharecoin gets paid the bitcoins
BTC-Mining: Aye, but having to isolate colored coins in the Bitcoin blockchain and provide a mechanism to not spend them yet receive Bitcoins directly on the same address seems unpractical.
Luke-Jr: BTC-Mining: and if he never gives the shares over?
Luke-Jr: BTC-Mining: Bitcoin-Qt 0.7 added a raw transaction API just for things like this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31581 @ 0.00040609 = 12.8247 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27419 @ 0.00040606 = 11.1338 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so prolly this idea is no good simply on the grounds that it has nop way to guarantee it.
BTC-Mining: Wait, if someone never gives the share? You mean like an exchange of colored coins/bitcoins being preauthorized so the exchange is made together safely?
Luke-Jr: there's a single transaction that transfers the payment (in Bitcoins) and also transfers the stocks
BTC-Mining: Well that would be a huge plus in favor of keeping everything on the same blockchain
Luke-Jr: imagine a day where cars check the blockchain to validate the key opening them :P
BTC-Mining: Yes, but with bitcoins being divisible indefinitly and being a deflationary currency, wouldn't you run into the risk a colored coin becoming more valuable than the underlying asset or being colored multiple time?
mircea_popescu: there are no more than 21`000`000`0000`0000 bitcoin units.
BTC-Mining: There's technically no limit to how much we could further allow it to be split.
BTC-Mining: Also any share blackholed would forever get dividends being blackholed...
BTC-Mining: Although I guess we could consider that a share donated to the whole bitcoin economy at large...
BTC-Mining: With dividends benefitting every holder.
BTC-Mining: Well no really, any blackholed dividends going to those shares would reduce circulating Bitcoins, raising value of remaining Bitcoins.
BTC-Mining: So it would really be like dividends spread to every other bitcoin holder.
Luke-Jr: BTC-Mining: the coloured coins are 0 value
Luke-Jr: amount = 0x0000000000000000 satoshis
Luke-Jr: Bitcoin does not have rule that coins must have a positive value
BTC-Mining: Wow... wasn't aware that was even possible
BTC-Mining: So basically anyone could create as much 0 value coins and mark them.
Luke-Jr: p2pool uses it for a hack merged mining optimization
Luke-Jr: I don't think any miners accept 0-value coins without a fee right now
BTC-Mining: Well technically, miners accept transactions with their set minimum fee, so shouldn't having a big enough fee along the zero value coins work?
Luke-Jr: Eligius will charge more than ordinary for a zero-value coin
BTC-Mining: Well we already pay fees to trade shares on exchanges like MPEx or defunct GLBSE
BTC-Mining: I don't see sending a fee with those zero value coins as a problem at all
BTC-Mining: tough luck mircea, he's no longer around
BTC-Mining: But I have just found a renewed love for Bitcoins over a feature I wasn't aware of.
mircea_popescu: people keep whining about jail ? fuck it, i see little problem in going to jail for bitcoin. i'm a bitcoin patriot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 644 @ 0.00040741 = 0.2624 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28856 @ 0.00040871 = 11.7937 BTC [+]
rdponticelli: Maybe I could concentrate a lot more if I was in jail...
mircea_popescu: ikr ? less bitches rubbing into me while im trying to type, more predictable schedule...
mircea_popescu: people with families have no business dicking around the fronteer.
mircea_popescu: especially not if they're going to whine about their families then.
rdponticelli: People with families are already on the dead end
Luke-Jr: ok, I guess you just kicked all the developers out of the bitcoin project…
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr do you know of that guy that renounced us citizenship to be able to do cryptography in peace ?
noagendamarket: I wonder why you cant renounce citizenshipo while youre still in the country
Diablo-D3: you'll just be immediately arrested and deported
noagendamarket: if you try to tell the cops you have no citizenship they still tazer you :P
Diablo-D3: they'll just execute you for being a foreign spy
mircea_popescu: "There's less chance of getting in any trouble with the U.S. government and there's also less chance of getting shot by a terrorist"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00040606 = 2.9642 BTC [-]
smickles: "I fail to faglow" wise words from mircea_popescu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3181 @ 0.00040606 = 1.2917 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Mithridates married his first young sister Laodice. Laodice was 16 years old and was her brother’s first wife. Mithridates married Laodice to preserve the purity of their blood-line, as a wife to rule with him as a sovereign over Pontus, to ensure the succession to his legitimate children, and to claim his right as a ruling monarch.
smickles: oh no, bitcoin has taken over my mind
smickles: i just tried to use the command "ifcoinfig"
dub: but really, the 80s calledplease return their retarded tools
smickles: what do you use to find out an unknown local ip?
gribble: Current Blocks: 203469 | Current Difficulty: 3054627.5269486 | Next Difficulty At Block: 203615 | Next Difficulty In: 146 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 23 hours, 45 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3061065.26839779 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.210753729952
gribble: Best bid: 11.86396, Best ask: 11.9897, Bid-ask spread: 0.12574, Last trade: 11.86396, 24 hour volume: 26620, 24 hour low: 11.43, 24 hour high: 11.9899
gribble: Error: "bt,24hrprc" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "bt,24hprc" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44619 @ 0.00040587 = 18.1095 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11344 @ 0.00040871 = 4.6364 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49348 @ 0.00040982 = 20.2238 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55044 @ 0.00041087 = 22.6159 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.0004177 = 5.6807 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00041888 = 2.5133 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 420045 @ 0.00042 = 176.4189 BTC [+]
dub: I herd kim dotcom sold some bitcoins
rdponticelli: Somebody is pretty determined to buy all the S.MPOE
rg: anyone here interested in ordering dinner for me
rg: i cant find anyone in -otc
dub: sure, If I get to choose what you have
dub: one full bag of hamster dicks enroute
BTC-Mining: Thing I don't like with that is it appears on my credit card/banking statements
BTC-Mining: Which would require me to convert more bitcoins to fiat to pay bills
BTC-Mining: I just don't want to explain that the money appearing in my account is not income but that I make credit card purchases for others.
BTC-Mining: I would actually like everything to be transactable directly into bitcoins...
BTC-Mining: I think I'd have to be registered as a money transfer service to make credit card payments for people and deduct them from income.
BTC-Mining: Otherwise if my tax reports are investigated, it's kind of hard to explain why you deducted a payment to a restaurant from your income.
dub: ./BTC-mining -vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00041999 = 4.1999 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31128 @ 0.00042 = 13.0738 BTC [+]
pigeons: i dont have iproute2 either
dub: the binary is called 'ip'
pigeons: i did apt-file search, i see its in iproute, i don't have that installed
dub: anything debian based should have it stock
smickles: and dub, thanks for the recomendation of that tool :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00041552 = 13.7953 BTC [-]
dub: problem is that once in a blue moon someone will ask you to operate a less civilised unix and enragement will ensue as you fumble around without it
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining are you kidding ? i deduct tons of restaurant bills.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20943 @ 0.00042 = 8.7961 BTC [+]
dub: I'd consider a corporate chef type gig in a porno empire
dub: mircea_popescu: that is an abomination
TheSeven: yes, nice rpi extension board :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4099 @ 0.00042 = 1.7216 BTC [+]
copumpkin: just stalking mircea_popescu via -PR
copumpkin: I was just trying to figure out if she was a real person or just your feminine alter ego
BTC-Mining: uh, what's the problem with those shrimp pastas?
smickles: huh, so usagi keeps bumping the fuck out of that thread i started
smickles: and in one post he wrote "I'm going back to sleep and if Smickles posts this publicly I won't bother commenting here further. " which i don't understand because this post was, in fact, posted by him
smickles: mircea_popescu: show him when you cooked bacon that one time
BTC-Mining: Bitcointalk.org should have a tutorial when you register. You start in a cave and an old man says: "It's dangerous to go alone. Take this." Upon which point you receive a bag containing the following books: "Trolling for Dummies", "Living Among the Trolls", "Trollslaying 101" & "How to Troll Further"
smickles: didn't jcpham put it on youtube?
dub: mircea_popescu: I'll have to look again, but what flavor or seasoning? just the 'shrimp'?
mircea_popescu: heh you're not a food snob, you're an internet superficialist.
dub: also your roux is going to taste liks shit
dub: cause its cooked too quickly for one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19864 @ 0.00041951 = 8.3331 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22636 @ 0.00041639 = 9.4254 BTC [-]
dub: mircea_popescu: its not bad
dub: the roux cooked in there offends me a little
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00041766 = 3.3413 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: He is currently the Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for Earth and Space
mircea_popescu: i Bill Clinton mean this Barack Obama bullshit has to John Perry cease.
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P200T] 6 @ 0.71152992 = 4.2692 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P170T] 1 @ 0.46756602 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P170T] 17 @ 0.45435043 = 7.724 BTC [-]
smickles: mircea_popescu: is the volume on options down recently?
mircea_popescu: During the week ending October 3rd, investors pulled more than 10 billion dollars out of U.S. mutual funds. Overall, a total of more than 100 billion dollars has been pulled out of U.S. mutual funds so far this year.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4475 @ 0.00041639 = 1.8633 BTC [-]
smickles: mircea_popescu: how much money is usually pulled out of mutual funds?
mircea_popescu: overall they have some trillions under management, so it's not like they were crunched for half or anything
smickles: mircea_popescu: oh, so 'pulled out' was a net number?
gribble: There are currently 82972.165 bitcoins offered at or under 15.0 USD, worth 1112997.84801 USD in total.
gribble: This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 132263.32 bitcoins, for a total of 2854946344805.6753 USD and take the price to 1337000001337.0000.
gribble: Current Blocks: 203491 | Current Difficulty: 3054627.5269486 | Next Difficulty At Block: 203615 | Next Difficulty In: 124 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3062275.90012393 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.250386441812
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00041755 = 13.1111 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00042 = 2.73 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: BTC-Mining: its common to fake injury
BTC-Mining: No, no... They make those people out of glass
Diablo-D3: I hate sports, and dont watch soccer, but I know this
BTC-Mining: Nah, they abduct people, removes the bones and replace them with glass, then forces them to play and hit themselves.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 379 @ 0.00041639 = 0.1578 BTC [-]
smickles: ok, mircea_popescu i'm sure there's an arb op here b/t mpex options and the future on icbit.se
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2210 @ 0.00041639 = 0.9202 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3304 @ 0.00041552 = 1.3729 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11263 @ 0.00041522 = 4.6766 BTC [-]
dub: Your GLBSE account has been partially processed for bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21592 @ 0.00042 = 9.0686 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the one time i looked (maybe a week or two ago) it was ~1btc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.0004169 = 1.3758 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0004169 = 1.8344 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.0004169 = 11.2563 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.00041679 = 0.5835 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00041586 = 3.0774 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00041586 = 2.0793 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38127 @ 0.00041522 = 15.8311 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 773 @ 0.00041519 = 0.3209 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00041787 = 3.3012 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21673 @ 0.00041519 = 8.9984 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19227 @ 0.00041517 = 7.9825 BTC [-]
jurov: smicklez is keen to contracts
mircea_popescu: MrTiggr Cannot GET /images/socnet/bitcoin-assets/bitcoin-assets-current.png
mircea_popescu: ahaha the "colored coins" stupidity is actually meni rosenfeld's idea ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5090 @ 0.00041751 = 2.1251 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9910 @ 0.00041772 = 4.1396 BTC [+]
MrTiggr: mircea_popescu: i moved it, sorry
MrTiggr: im about to update the algorithm too
MrTiggr: soon, anyone who says the word scammer will get redder and redder
MrTiggr: well ..ill make it better over time
MrTiggr: a qwik look will tell where the scammer-talk is going on
MrTiggr: which is what i use it for mostly
MrTiggr: "I don't know how much GLBSE lost that day but I wouldn't be surprised if bad coding resulting in heavy losses was one of the reasons nefario wasn't making much money from the business."
MrTiggr: ^^ ive heard a few comments like that
mircea_popescu: i know they were carrying a buncha debt on the books since forever
MrTiggr: expect new coolness soon too :D mwahahaha .. i think u'll like it
mircea_popescu: "I don't have to dispute or even answer you, because you're a whacked out loser." hey smickles, you suck nao.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1847 @ 0.00041716 = 0.7705 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00041563 = 1.4547 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: lmao so I get btctalk digests from my pr girl. this stuff is almost as funny as the forum itself. for instance :
mircea_popescu: no idea what's going on, i think last poster may be calling someone a turdlord or something but i cant actually tell. possible drugs.
dub: rampant inbreeding is the culprit
MrTiggr: * MrTiggr is now know as Turdlord ... thats a cool nichk :D
dub: for forums not your cat
mircea_popescu: course seeing how with old age i tend to do chicks in the ass more than in the cunt, i guess i could call my dick turdlord.
mircea_popescu: i never had a name for it before anyway, always kinda felt left out.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00041455 = 13.6387 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: usagi is gone completely mad...LOL
DeaDTerra: I am happy to report that I have received the BTC I had at GLBSE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00041455 = 2.3629 BTC [-]
dub: I got email saying I had been paid out but recieved no btc
EskimoBob: interesting. I haven't got any e-mails or coin
EskimoBob: Looks like this is a really slow process. Question is: why so slow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00041392 = 3.4769 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00041377 = 0.6207 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: I posted a updated contract and i think the issue of ART-OTA being a security is resolved.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00041377 = 2.0275 BTC [-]
darkee: dub: had the same thing yesterday evening but got my coins in the course of the night :)
pigeons: did any glbse asset issuers receive shareholder information yet?
rdponticelli: I haven't, at least, and I don't know of anybody who has
dub: I've been at work for 20 hours
dub: more caffine at this point could be fatal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00041377 = 0.0414 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5206 @ 0.00041377 = 2.1541 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00041344 = 14.0983 BTC [-]
pigeons: maybe the doctor will put shim back on shis medicine
EskimoBob: and yes usagi, you are sick ... LOL
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1194 @ 0.00041316 = 0.4933 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5853 @ 0.00041455 = 2.4264 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15490 @ 0.00041772 = 6.4705 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10363 @ 0.00041787 = 4.3304 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00041275 = 17.0879 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6037 @ 0.00041787 = 2.5227 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8463 @ 0.00041843 = 3.5412 BTC [+]
drekk: mircea_popescu, did u actually send 3btc to 001sonkit on the forum?
EskimoBob: thestringpuller: the last comment is spot on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16704 @ 0.00041275 = 6.8946 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11933 @ 0.00041274 = 4.9252 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: if FSA says it not money, then wtf is nefario yapping about? Has he shown any documents taht prove he ever had ANY communications with any gov agency?
jcpham: i read as his interview as this: if i never log in to glbse again, I get nothing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.0004129 = 2.8903 BTC [+]
EskimoBob: gigavps: It is so easy to ask for the documents from gov. agency. Untill I see one, I think it's all one big BS
EskimoBob: I am sure we will find out soon, what the real reason was because of the shit slinging between tyhemos etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00041372 = 0.7861 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00041372 = 3.1443 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00041617 = 9.5719 BTC [+]
pigeons: ;rate EskimoBob -10 scammer isn't even a real eskimo
pigeons: pics with igloo on your head
EskimoBob: ;rate usagi -100 is not even a real girl
PsychoticBoy: as much of a G.I.R.L. as I am (Guy In Real Life)
EskimoBob: pigeons: picture of you flying and holding a bitcoin betwwen you peek
EskimoBob: pigeons: I actually rated you +2 after the trade
pigeons: i don't negotiate with terrorists
pigeons: so tell us what this "art equipment" is?
EskimoBob: "thestringpuller | you around" - yes I am. wzz up?
pigeons: i was half pickin on you and also genuinely curious
thestringpuller: I feel strange being a btc advocate and working for a credit card processor during the day
EskimoBob: what happened to Romeny tax return fiasco?
thestringpuller: as I told smickles I'm working on a (maybe open source) solution for bitinstants debit card
vampireb_: you need a bank to process transactions
EskimoBob: card reader can be plugged to a pc or laptop and client software
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 800 @ 0.00041843 = 0.3347 BTC [+]
vampireb_: to do any kind of transactions with cards you need to connect to visa network
rg: that connects to visa
rg: direct connections to visa have volume limits
rg: *minimum volume limits
vampireb_: of course. 3rd party would be a bank
rg: there are companies who sell card readers
rg: card reader -> company -> visa
vampireb_: i have done my share of micro transafvtions and credit processing
rg: card reader -> company -> bank > visa
EskimoBob: if you have a card reader and a client, that can connect to blockchain?
rg: i used to manage a convenience store
rg: 5 years ago, still semi applies
rg: and we used to fight with credit all the time
rg: i was the one who discovered we were losing $100/mo
rg: we had a flat fee with AMEX
rg: so fi ONE person used amex to buy a $5 thing
rg: we'd get charged $100
rg: you just need the volume
rg: 1 amex transaction a month hardly justified the fee
vampireb_: ok used to be.. i dont recall rates, but it was about 3% while visa/mc was like 1.5%
rg: rates have all fluxed
rg: we only accepted visa/mc
rg: they had the best rates
vampireb_: well to issue a debit card, you need to have a help from a bank.
thestringpuller: vampireb_: you can have reloadable cards issued to your business but it requires a KYC check
rg: but not easy to do online
thestringpuller: vampireb_: but in terms of an OSS solution you would just use exsiting accounts
rg: if you were doing business IRL
thestringpuller: i have an amex prepaid card I liquidate btc to for buying lunch
thestringpuller: it's not seamless yet but with a few more tweaks it will be
vampireb_: well i am recalling from memory that someone was funding cards this way
rg: [14:38] <thestringpuller> i have an amex prepaid card I liquidate btc to for buying lunch
rg: hes the gyu who buys me food online
rg: i think nearly 80% of his cc transactions are me
thestringpuller: my division in TSYS (the cc processor I work for) processors rush card (the prepaid card by russell simmons for you def jam fans) and they have so many fees
thestringpuller: vampireb_: what i'm getting at is it takes a while to make the steps to liquidate into an account seamless, I want to make a solution anyone who wants to take the effort can set up on their own servers and spend cash with a prepaid card/debit card of their choosing
vampireb_: i am not sure what "liquidate" means, still you would need a 3rd party to process the transactions. which will be out of reach for a lot of ppl.
thestringpuller: process which transactions? converting from exchange->fiat?
vampireb_: so BTC -> exchange -> user's bank account -> card ?
thestringpuller: except in an automated batch processing world, each one of those "steps" is continuously happening each night to make it look like your doing btc -> card
vampireb_: i'd prefer of course just the card is getting funded from BTC on demand :-)
thestringpuller: you have to go through an exchange though at some point to resupply your fiat on the card
thestringpuller: if you automate that process then it seems like it's on demand
thestringpuller: even credit cards aren't processed on demand, they are only auth'ed on demand, VISA/MasterCard sends a signal directly to the processor, the processor checks the available balances of the accounts and sends back an auth response accepted/declined. only at night are the accounts truly reconciled. for btc why would it be any different?
thestringpuller: (eCommerce auth is some of the most optimized software out there)
vampireb_: that what I meant, only the required amount of BTC should be exchanged or locked during the auth
thestringpuller: you can make it perceived that way if you have pools in a warchest of sorts
thestringpuller: you have to hedge your holdings in order to overcome exchange fees so it's not traditional
thestringpuller: cause exchange rates are much higher than what visa charges processors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00041843 = 11.6324 BTC [+]
MadalyInMay: You could also go www.btcpak.com -> Mp code -> Amex prepaid or Greendot
smickles: < mircea_popescu> sorry. | I forgive you ;)
smickles: thestringpuller: sounds like your idea is gaining some traction, eh?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1467 @ 0.00041843 = 0.6138 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19833 @ 0.00041858 = 8.3017 BTC [+]
smickles: < mircea_popescu> smickles it has volume now ? | volume 232780 usd (which probably translates into 23278 contracts traded) open interest 7114
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00041805 = 2.2157 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1130 @ 0.000417 = 0.4712 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11797 @ 0.00041858 = 4.938 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15914 @ 0.0004189 = 6.6664 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11589 @ 0.00041913 = 4.8573 BTC [+]