950800+ entries in 0.676s
mircea_popescu: atm im goingthrough
the summary of
the bitcoin-dev session for
the 12th
Ukto: but would you stop whining about
trades? :P
Ukto: if I put a
test bot
trade announcer in here
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 44.52000, Best ask: 44.55501, Bid-ask spread: 0.03501, Last
trade: 44.55501, 24 hour volume: 182706.33065327, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.39999, 24 hour vwap: 43.75828
dub: you aren't on a quest
to rescue bitcoin from mediocraty?
dub: heres some low hanging fruit for you mircea_popescu. <pjorrit_> we really should get a SD on
testnet
Lyspooner: I was
thinking:
The Bitcoin Best Guess Foundation
mircea_popescu: P
T Barnum's Magical
Trading Cards & Bitcoin Esoteric Foundation ?
mircea_popescu: you can have
trade without contracts but it's a recipe for disaster.
mircea_popescu: spec stands
to code in
the same relationship contract stands
to
trade.
mircea_popescu: if you only start
them, work for some,
then start new one... lot of wasted work man.
mod6: yall should be doing
the same
thing.
mod6: i wont start by making any changes
to
the source, just review it as I can.
mod6: anyway, I'll pull
to linux and go
through
the code.
mod6: cause i feel like i want
to clone and start going
through
this
thing again. last year, I made a shit load of my own changes
to get it working on freebsd properly.
mod6: (12:08) < mircea_popescu>
that;s usually a good step
towards specification.
mod6: (12:08) < mircea_popescu> mod6 actually once you're done with
the iphone app, a very good use of someone's
time is
to go
through
the codebase and summarize it
mircea_popescu: idiot parade is lucky
that evoorhees is a sweetheard, even if
they
treat him like dirt.
jurov: that would be funny if satoshidice kept functional on both sides of
the fork
maximian: SatoshiDice bet sizes not being affected by
the exchange rate is a nice surprise
maximian: market doesn't seem
terribly concerned about about all
this
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 45.97092, Best ask: 46.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02908, Last
trade: 46.00000, 24 hour volume: 179859.80684158, 24 hour low: 36.65000, 24 hour high: 48.39999, 24 hour vwap: 43.75220
mod6: but
there can always be a little guidence on how it is designed, why something is implemented
the way it is, etc.
mod6: cause
the source speaks volumes itself
mod6: but... it doesn't have
to be 50 volumes
to be helpful either.
mod6: i've read
tons of
technical manuals. i quite like
the strangely.
mod6: (13:35) < jurov> mod6 yea but if you don't painstakingly document it it just won't go past some
threshold << documentation is amazing
mircea_popescu: Lyspooner not detachedly from
the general "trusting devteam" risk
Lyspooner: but
that's
the risk
that mining pool ops assume
mircea_popescu: and speaking of
that 120... YET MORE MAGIC NUMBERS FUCKING HELL
Lyspooner: maybe i misunderstand mining pools' payouts. but if i do work now, i shouldn't be paid until
t+120
mircea_popescu: as miners submitted current work,
they were paid for
their share of contribution
to
that low difficulty
jurov: Lyspooner pools attract noobs on fast payouts, is
that surprising for you?
mircea_popescu: as
the blockchain was being downloaded,
the difficulty was corresponding
to very old blocks, ie, very low.
Lyspooner: they are paying miners with fresher coins
than is safe
Lyspooner: anything faster
than 120 blocks is
the ops fault
mircea_popescu: yes,
the op was quite clear about having lost
the 1.2k
Lyspooner: mircea_popescu were
they auto-paying miners with coins older
than 120 blocks since mined?
benkay: i optimize for pleasure within my in-group, and i let
the rest of
the world experience
their own mistakes.
mircea_popescu: Lyspooner
they lost ~1.2k because
the new .8 redownloaded
the chain and
they autopaid miners submitting as if low diff
jurov: yes bitcoind usually works,
too
mod6: i've said
that before. but usually my code works
too.
Lyspooner: where'd
the 2k btc figure come from?
jurov: mod6 yea but if you don't painstakingly document it it just won't go past some
threshold
benkay: dunno if i agree about
that.
mod6: but
then you know, you review, you
think about it, you make changes and it gets better.
mircea_popescu: this keeps up, soon enough idiots will not have
the dough
to keep going
mod6: even
the other night, i wrote
that code quick
that worked. i mean, it kinda worked, in
the way
that it fucked a donkey.
mod6: I
think, at least for myself, every
time I had
to write a paper, or have written some code; I've gone back
the next day or at some later date and done a `wtf?'
benkay: in retrospect, i'm a little surprised
they didn't
this
time
benkay: there will eventually be an incentive for
the miners
to disregard devsquad
mod6: So, what I'm saying is, I
think it's a really good
thing
to create a spec, and
then everyone can punch eachother in
the nuts over it until its perfect.
This is
the way
to go.
jurov: lol
the vride isn't up
to specs
benkay: what are you
taking offers on, dub?
dub: because numbers look different
than
they sound obviously
mircea_popescu: jurov i bet you i can
tell you have just by reading his output
dub: so
this fucking agent calls me in yesterday
to show
the same offer as last week, only on paper
mod6: well, i
think
this bitcoin project is again an "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG
TO US."
type of
thing.
jurov: maybe i'll hire amir
taaki.. he'll do gladly for food and shelter
jurov: just hire someone.
this muppet argument will ensue but code/doc will remain in
the end
mircea_popescu: + "it's not enough" drama +
trying
to get
the pruize with as little work as possible etc
mod6: right. no,
this needs
to be something
that is adopted by
the users of
the system.
mircea_popescu: b. i set up a prize which anyone may claim. well...
this opens
the idiocy problem of "oh, I don'tneed his money, what does me
take for, a starving artist????"
mircea_popescu: a. i hire someone. well...
this opens
the political problem of "oh, he's mp's puppet".
jurov: oh,
that happens with all opensource without paid devs
mircea_popescu: why it's called open source after all, sits
there and waits for when / who has
time for it
jurov: well, i'd love
to and have no problems
to read others code.. just
that i'm neck deep elsewhere atm.
mircea_popescu: of course it has
to first get
the cat into
the washing machine.
mircea_popescu: hiowever, once it's complete
there's a few day's worth of facepalming and going "wait, we are doing W?HAT ?!"
mircea_popescu: in my experience any devteam resists such an effort like cats resist washing, because coders love
to write but hate having
to read code.
mircea_popescu: this wouldn't
take much longer
than a few weeks for a first draft, which can
then be argued and refined
mircea_popescu: but i
think if we can get one (or ideally multiple) people
to summarize
the code
mircea_popescu: jurov anyway,
the problem isn't as much
the drama, but moreover
that a single-source codebase is both non-bitcoiny and suspect.
mod6: anyway, drives me up a wall, I'll
tell you. :)
mod6: im not sure what planet
these guys are on, but if
this is
their baby and
they have commitbits
to
the most widely used full-node base,
they aught
to make sure it functions correctly.
mod6: i just feel like,
this should be like a HACK
THE PLANET
type
thing, and people who want
this
to work will make it work.
mircea_popescu: then once we have spec
they can fix
their fucked codebase and release a proper client
jurov: and who will do
the spec? have any allies
to do it
together?