899200+ entries in 0.578s
mircea_popescu: what a fuckwit
that guy. "not open" "centralised" vs "ponzi" how are
these "the same" ?
furuknap: As in, I have no idea how
the fuck it works.
furuknap: I'm not joking, but despite having
tried, I still don't understand Ripple.
ThickAsThieves: you could say
that abiut all
the dollars never spent on bitcoin
furuknap: Cool. Of course, if Bitcoins goes
to $1M each,
then you'd also be famous for being
the person
that bought a Bentley GT for $375M.
furuknap: The site is
trading with a massive 4 full AM shares,
though (it's a 1/1000 PT) so I'm not expecting any huge market moves elsewhere.
furuknap: I haven't looked into
that exchange at all, but
the AM PT just recently launched so either someone is very stupid or very brave if
this is a scam site.
Namworld: He just kind of carried on when GLBSE closed and couldn't bother when GLBSE disclosed
the lists.
qxzn: < mircea_popescu>
trustless finance is nonsense.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, if you've never
tried having a girl sit in your lap while you're sitting on one of
those large yoga inflatable rubber balls you must do so forthwith
mircea_popescu: thats a good example cause he seemed real
trustworthy all
through and never had a good reason
to disappear
jurov: yes. and
then passthrough op vanishes
mircea_popescu: i don't
think at any point in
the > 5000 years history of arbing
ThickAsThieves: if u wanna make fukn money on arb,
take positions and risk
mircea_popescu: im not sure why
this is difficult
to digest, but finance is fundamentally fiduciary.
jurov: it's also
trust. mp seems
to
think about it as nonissue
that mpex is
to be
the apex
trusted with all shares
TomServo: I
thought
the problem was not having
to
trust a
third party?
ThickAsThieves: is u wanna arb without
the risk of
taking a position on all xchanhes
ThickAsThieves: typing from mobile, but it seems
to me you guys are requesting a feature of inter exchange xfer,
jurov: yes i know, but i'm optimistic it will be solved long
term
mircea_popescu: well, leaving aside
that
there isn't a 2nd mpex
to begin with, having no hierarchy means you'll have
to face
the byzantine problem
jurov: it's only possible
to have everything on mpex and
then passthroughs
jurov: mircea_popescu:
there is no possibility for a corporation
to have multiple counterparties on
the same level as mpex
TomServo: But it sounds promising with evidently having solved
the cross server discover issue
TomServo: jurov: I guess 'is meant
to' at
this point - it appears incomplete
jurov: TomServo: is meant
to or it actually solves? why friedcat isn't using it, for example?
TomServo: I
think open
transactions is meant
to solve
these issues.
mircea_popescu: jurov well basically listing on mpex does
that exactly.
mircea_popescu: and so at
the interface between hard and soft you will have a gap
jurov: then it will be only a question
to get exchanges
to recognize
them
jurov: i
think mp is
the wrong person
to ask
things from... you want
to have corporations
that issue something like gpg-signed share certificates
pgp: BTC assets are
the same currency, but same hassle? why?
pgp: but it
the only solution for dealing with DIFFERENT base currencies...
pgp: ok - so
the sort of
thing
that is possible
today is much like ADR and ordinary shares.
They are convertible for a fee,
they
trade on different exchange, and it's a hassle
to convert.
BitHub: true? i would love
to understand it
BitHub: BF mpex intergration example, i could have an account at bf and mpex and buy shares from bf and
transfer it
to mpex for a fee, both exchanges share
the fee. Now i can
trade my sdice shares on mpex, vice versa
mircea_popescu: paper will
take anything,
the blockchain idea will
take anything.
mircea_popescu: fact is an altchain is
trustworthy just for being an altchain
to
the same degree
that written
text can be
trusted just for being written on paper.
mircea_popescu: this fetish people have for blockchains is being exploited atm by all
the altchain scams.
mircea_popescu: as it won't push out div if
the share count is >
the declared count
pgp: but having some sort of non exchange controlled mechanism
to prove, for example,
that
there are no conterfiet share out
there, seems like a worthy goal
BitHub: digital stock cert could be linked
to a qr code or something <--n00b at
this stuff
pgp: btw, you most certainly can request a stock certificate at any
time - hassle and not common - but people do it for many reasons
BitHub: what if exchanges agreed
to allow users from one exchange
to exchange
the same shares with another user on another asset exchange
TomServo: mircea_popescu: you asking if open-transactions is being
tinkered on/
mircea_popescu: nobody wants
to administer
the physical stuff anymore,
too expensive, forgeries etc
mircea_popescu: you can "own" it but in
the
terms of, some clearance corp saying so and
that's all
there is.
TomServo: pgp: I
think opentransactions might be
the
thing you're looking for.
pgp: I don't care about delay, just
the ability
to move it
pgp: yes, but let's look at how it work for financial markets. I can hold a stock certificate in my name (personal wallet), or I can deposit with my broker and put it in "street" name (broker's wallet and
trade it on an exchange - ANY exchange - in
the US
that would mean 7 major exchanges, but 20 or so dark pools. Every share is identical and fungible.
mircea_popescu: pgp for one, you will have
the normal confirmation delay. for
the other, how do you pay
the miners ?
BitHub: but don't
think its really suited for me atm
BitHub: i would actually like
to sign up and use it, something different from BF and btct
qxzn: the problem is
that shares on one exchange have different value
than shares on another exchange
BitHub: just analysing what i should do with
the mpoe stock
pgp: but
their consensus engine does seem interesting
pgp: ok - so - why are "colored coins" such a bad idea? I am not suggesting any sort of p2p exchange, just ledgering and
the ability
to
trade you shares on differenet exchanges.
qxzn: pgp: "I'm refering
to a idea about moving asset custody. For example, why not have a mechnism "like"
the blockchain
to move ASICM
to whatever exchange you want."
this sounds a lot like ripple
BitHub: ahh back from feb, not much changing from
that?
BitHub: hey mp do you have mpex upgrade/revampl plans for
the next few months posted on your blog i could read about?
mircea_popescu: unlike
the horrorshow of glbse etc emails,
this is
the actual standard i'd say.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: I didn't realize bitvps was listed on mpex originally. Why
the
transfer?
qxzn: Has anyone else noticed
that BTCTC could easily stand for BTC
Trash Can?
TomServo: I will
take a look. Honestly, I don't know much other
than it sounds like
the glbse closure was a fuckshow.
mircea_popescu: TomServo well i don't see how it'd do better
than what's currently in place atm
furuknap: Again, now you're
thinking in BTC mode.
TomServo: Would it somehow allow a failed exchange
to
transfer shares
to another? Or is
that not even an issue?
mircea_popescu: you'd never know
the insider handles. kinda
the point of crypto currency