log☇︎
89900+ entries in 0.914s
phf: but but i didn't mean gothic straight here, i think that maldoror specifically is already a parody
phf: oh ffs, you are right it is a wikipedism, since i was convinced that it was gothic genre in su school also
mircea_popescu: no i shall insist, because it's fucking annoying. buncha losers. so what, walpole thinks it's ok to tongue in cheek "a gothic novel" ? at the time the word had a meaning, and yes it is a certain forlorn grandiosity et all.
mircea_popescu: de lautreamont calls himself "a gothich character" ?
mircea_popescu: phf he doesn't even specifically want to become a scourge. he wants to "they should be punished" ; and "to become a dictator". essentially, like any good liberal/socialist, he JUST WANTS THE STATE TO.
mircea_popescu: "i'm not at greater risk because i'm black, i'm at greater risk because your mother's a whore."
phf: i think that's the funny bit about roger whatshisname, he gets alienated from society and decides to become a scourge, but him and his definition of malice are so dull, it's like a parody of a gothic character
phf: as a gothic stance, "if society rejects me, i will now serve the utmost evil!"
mircea_popescu: teen pregnancies were traditionally a white thing. this never ever changed ; except for the weirdo new york elliots (they prefer to call themselves liberals) who thought it did because they stopped looking briefly.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller black society is a bad model for just about anything.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 03:53 phf: he's like an incredibly dull, millenial take on a gothic hero, a modern day maldoror
thestringpuller: Which is 90% of niggas who impregnate a gold digger no matter how much money they eventually make.
mircea_popescu: this, in the uk, by all accounts a worse shithole than the us.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller a "great point" in the sense of it being repeated a lot online. talk to a divorce lawyer sometime, this "absolute right to divorce" does not work that way in practice.
mircea_popescu: the subjective experience of loss and inadequacy is a huge underground ocean comprising most of the human bejaviour known as art.
mircea_popescu: trinque ironically, for a long time in [the very repressive, and otherwise bizarre] austro-hungarian society, little girls thought they were castrated. literally, that ancient trick of "i stole your nose" that amuses 3yos ; they thought someone took their penis, which is why they don't look like boys.
trinque: damn, what a culturally relevant piece.
thestringpuller: "I see the devolution of Western culture upon us because the males have been emasculated with a combination of societal enforcement of child support payments along with the absolute right of the female to divorce taking all the financial support while remaining promiscuous." << actually i have no idea what gender this person is, but makes great points.
shinohai: ok gimmie a bit to sign in, i never bothered to register it :/
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "The beta-males also wish to be alpha, but for whatever reason they are realistically incapable of it, so they must accept the role of trying to impregnate a female when she is fertile by keeping her away from an alpha-male." interesting perspective. ☟︎
phf: particular transport. never the less when the conversation about current spec comes in you are eager to point out how spec is useless. it's a significant effort to drone you out long enough to actually attempt the implementation, and since in my experience attempting the implementation is a significant step in grokking, i think you repeating the same point over and over again actually lowers overall snr. ☟︎
phf: asciilifeform: going back to gossip conversation, my issue is that the gossip you talk about exists exclusively in your head, where's mp got a spec. there are aspects of gossip functionality that can be explored with current spec despite the underlying tcp transport. and like i said broken transport doesn't invalidate the application functionality. it will leak in practice through tcp shenanigans, but that's the nature of this
asciilifeform: a great many x11 proggies i use run on remote machines. and i have NO intention of partaking in the 'own one computer' horseshit.
asciilifeform: and regard anyone who advocates it as a procrustes.
phf: there needs to be a feature in logs where you only render a subset of nicks ☟︎
phf: different kind of foundations, mcclim clx backend. he was saying lets replace it wholesale with a framebuffer renderer. i was arguing that it's better to cleanup clx first that'll make framebuffer renderer easier. i misunderstood your position then. i thought you were agreeing, but i suppose your position was that there's no point in replacing x with lesser alternative at all
asciilifeform: i dun even recall a debate. there was gabriel_laddel proposing to build hybrid of bulldog and rhino, 'lisp machine with linux', a mengelian atrocity with no future, because a foundation cannot be corrected any more than one can un-drop a baby.
asciilifeform: as a teaching tool, hearts and livers are separable.
phf: as a final product -- not, but as a teaching tool?
phf: so then it's not even about gossip, it's about "lets have a replacement for tcp"
phf: but that's a very minor detail of the spec!
asciilifeform: current spec is imho only worth something as a starting point.
asciilifeform: likewise a gossip node ought never to rely on a single entry point. and certainly not on a single ~published~ entry point.
asciilifeform: and there are no sybils, even as a theoretical item, in a correct gossiptron - every receiver knows exactly who (pubkey-wise) has any business transmitting to it, and rejects packet that is malformed, replayed, or signed with ANY other key, in constant time.
asciilifeform: the cost of validation in a single-packet-authenticating protocol where you crunch the numbers at line speed is effectively 0.
phf: yeah it's a shitty transport, that doesn't contradict anything i said though
asciilifeform: but it was ~always~ possible, from day1 of tcp, and this is evident to anyone with a copy of, e.g, richard stevens's 'tcp/ip illustrated'.
asciilifeform: it can also inject crapolade, into any tcp stream whatsoever. this is not a hypothetical, the actual mechanism that is actually used was recently discovered.
asciilifeform: hence the existence of such a thing as a syn flood.
phf: come to think of it sybil is not the right word in this case, on application level there's no psuedonymity and you only talk to people in wot. on transport level an attacker can construct a valid looking (struct layout wise) pgp packet, which in my naive spec implementation is handed over to gnupg. now you have a bunch of potential attack vectors here, but assuming there's no memory attacks in gnupg, race conditions in gpgme,
phf: i don't think there's a solution to drowned in sibyl's in general. there's a cost to validating counterparty (which is continuous in case of gossipd, there's no "validate the ip, and then trust it" which is what i mean by "no trust in ip"), which can be exploited by attacker. ☟︎
phf: that's a pretty useless interpretation of trust
Framedragger: ..iirc one of the original ideas was to "pass around ip addresses" as things bound to some nick/identity; there is a trust component here; but i'm sure it's evolved since then, etc etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 01:10 phf: adlai: i think gossip spec is fine, just nobody took it to release. asciilifeform has significant changes to the spec, but if you ignore those you can still build a working implementation. in fact, unless you're ascii, i think it's better to ignore further discussion and just stick to what mp wrote. i also think it's one of those ideas you don't want nailed down at protocol level. mine for example slings gpg packets
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-26#1529496 << just curious - does the gossip spec as it is place any trust in ip addresses? this iirc was one of the points criticized by asciilifeform, i would think it to be a valid one. sorry if this, too, was extensively discussed in the logs. ☝︎
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: znc running in a fucking rubish vps. any problem please swear at me again.
PeterL: what do you consider the age cutoff for millenials? Or is it a frame of mind rather than a specific age range?
phf: he's like an incredibly dull, millenial take on a gothic hero, a modern day maldoror ☟︎
BingoBoingo: That's a pretty good looking horror game there
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> if mircea_popescu had written that rodgier ought to have ~been buggered~, or enslaved by arabs, or similar, i would have no dispute. but it is just as fantastic to posit schmuck going into pederasty willingly, as to picture him growing taller by effort of will << He probably would enthusiastically have embraced getting buggered if he was a level 70 chocolate elfhole while recieving buggery
phf: it's for a good cause
phf: mircea_popescu: i misplaced my eulora account, can i get a password reset?
mircea_popescu: i told him to touch nothing and speak not a word lest i behead him ; girls wanted to know who's that and i said pay no mind whatsoever, i got a new dog.
asciilifeform: well, a rodgier on a leash, or sumthing
asciilifeform: try it with a human dog.
asciilifeform: duded don't really come equipped with this circuit that turns on, in dan mocsny's words, 'motorized statue' mode when within 100 metres of a rodgier
mircea_popescu: not so. i don't believe he biologically had a complete set of mechanisms. there was nothign for him.
asciilifeform: imho it is an interesting question - was rodger a terminal case.
asciilifeform: hard to ~prove~ a could-have about corpse, neh
mircea_popescu: there's a blessing for everything, my dear alf.
asciilifeform: whole flavour of the piece, in my reading, is that this was a dude with no solution.
mircea_popescu: he's born a slave, like it or not. either fuck or get off the pig.
asciilifeform: why not likewise say 'the obvious resolution ... eating a pound of broken glass'
asciilifeform: how is this 'resolution' ? dude was, afaik, straight, not only preferred to eat a pistol rather than do any of this, but in fact ~did~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i got a puzzler:
phf: mircea_popescu: oof, there aren't any. i've not updated the build scripts for the new version and it's not a "some pointers" kind of process
shinohai: bit of a voluptuous girl there mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess i;ll just use a shitty fragment.
mircea_popescu: hm, anyone has a link handy to that epic steph kegels library public masturbation thing ?
a111: Logged on 2014-10-30 23:55 mircea_popescu: undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects <<< there is. you're watching it. just because leadership is not in your face doesn't necessarily mean leadership is absent and it's your time to shine. it may also mean leadership is extremely good at what it does.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 01:15 mircea_popescu: back in the days trinque was called undata i made the point to him that merely because management is not apparent is a sign that management is extremely competent ; not an invitation to try and scare up some "management stone soup".
trinque: heh, reading one's own old logs is a trip.
mircea_popescu: apparently this is a very easy mistake to make ; understandably too, anglosphere management is da pits.
mircea_popescu: back in the days trinque was called undata i made the point to him that merely because management is not apparent is a sign that management is extremely competent ; not an invitation to try and scare up some "management stone soup". ☟︎
phf: i got bogged down in config files and other such minutia, but that's because i wrote it in c and i'm not yet at a level where i can produce elegant c solutions. i also used knuth's web, and since there aren't systems that support web/c syntax highlighting and indent the whole process was very much "grinding your own telescope lens by hand"
phf: adlai: i think gossip spec is fine, just nobody took it to release. asciilifeform has significant changes to the spec, but if you ignore those you can still build a working implementation. in fact, unless you're ascii, i think it's better to ignore further discussion and just stick to what mp wrote. i also think it's one of those ideas you don't want nailed down at protocol level. mine for example slings gpg packets ☟︎
gribble: Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: filtration system, a marvel to behooold!1111 (tm) (r)
mod6: hopefully by the end of the month we'll have fourteen new deedbot deps for buildroot placed, a new V99994 build script, and an offline build script.
mod6: yeah, done a ton of testing for me this month.
mircea_popescu: shinohai's been a busy little rabbit has he.
mod6: this morning shinohai successfully tested the offline build script that i create (a slight varient from the original one).
mircea_popescu: mod6 was a pretty cool moment huh.
adlai: then maybe the RFC should be for a protocol, rather than an implementation? or at least, a reference implementation that ~nobody uses, like V
adlai: so when do we officially acknowledge that the first attempt at addressing the gossipd RFC was a failure, and solicit a second?
asciilifeform: trinque: current situation is more or less worst possible - one reads arbitrary, sig-less string from a remote box, in the clear.
adlai: mod6: reminds me of some article that tl;dred to "i should have procrastinated my phd for as long as possible, finishing it was a mistake"
mod6: but! think of the alt! Sitting there playing wow while pumped full of antibiotics and just shitting in place for months at a time seems like it'd save on costs.
asciilifeform: adlai: must also point out, 'read signed document and then found matching pubkey' still conceivably leaves you behind a 'great firewall' where all pgp sigs visible match chairman mao's key perfectly
mircea_popescu: it is possible to eat shit, as an individual. it is not possible to enact a shiteating diet.
adlai: it is possible to trust (up to a certain minimal degree) keys encountered "in the wild"
asciilifeform: (or worse yet, they encrypt a transmission ~to~ a key without any attempt at climbing to it in their actual wot)
asciilifeform: adlai: currently there is a very comical situation where chumps download a pubkey, from ?????, and then try to authenticate published material (found on mitmable www sites, naturally) ~TO~ it, rather than the reverse (found signed material, then determined matching pubkey)
mircea_popescu: pretense to the contrary has a cost ; and we're not gonna be paying it.
asciilifeform: adlai: the entire notion of pubkeys posted publicly in a way that implies that strangers can take and use'em for something, is probably going away.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529385 << the very notion of gaming on a laptop... ☝︎
adlai: (rationale for spamming: it's not a lot of data, and adding a cost to the process gives the process a cost)
trinque: deeded requires signed, and if the right material is signed, doesn't need to be a deed.
adlai: re: the revocation thread from a couple days ago: why not require/expect keys, ratings, and revocations to be at least deeded, or better yet, spammed into the chain itself?
asciilifeform: 'My laptop was getting slower and slower. It wasn’t a very powerful laptop, but it was the only computer I had to play WoW on. This was really frustrating me, because eventually it became so slow that it ruined my gaming experience. I kept pestering my mother and father to get me a faster laptop that was more efficient for gaming.' (from rodger part 4) ☟︎