log☇︎
88800+ entries in 0.042s
asciilifeform: prolly bad example, nao that i think of it, pretty much any multidecade driver, incl. asciilifeform , would've handled the eggog correctly, in 50ms ( allowing for length of his legs )
mircea_popescu: i never taught anyone how to drive, i don't even drive myself.
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu fredericus-drilled his driver chix to never stop without order, neh
mircea_popescu: "utterly fucking broken down system of major complexity -- i have identified correct way out and the pedal goes down"
mircea_popescu: girl drove ~through~ rather than stopping and choking my engine.
mircea_popescu: well... consider the recently discussed case of amphibian landing.
asciilifeform: all broke down in snot ? or did a leader arise among'em, and direct repairs, give marching orders to the rest
mircea_popescu: well in this case we all laughed.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wouldja care to share how they reacted, in 2+ mass, to the water outage ?
mircea_popescu: if you don't watch at least two of them interact, then what can you say.
asciilifeform: i am not equipped to discern. all i got, is what's visible from my perch thus far.
mircea_popescu: there's no way known to measure individual particles, they use particle interaction, yes ?
mircea_popescu: how do you discern if you're measuring the fermion's flavour rather than the tool's flavour ?
asciilifeform: arbitrarily deeply trainable in specifics, but they tend to collapse under 'this system i did not even know existed, has broken down', is my impression.
asciilifeform: granted asciilifeform has 1 pet, and not 9000. but regularly witnesses the water pump scenario.
mircea_popescu: i don't see this.
asciilifeform: and afaik is not trainable.
mircea_popescu: yes, but it ain't about "minor unexpected" either. it's that i was there, it has everything to do with me and how much she wants to please/impress/etc.
asciilifeform: but about ability to deal with the unexpected, the nonstandard. this i see as measure of 'capital S' skill.
asciilifeform: i can only presume that the subj gurl was as well-taught as any mircea_popescu patient
asciilifeform: and the wastebaskets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the episode with your burned out water pump ?
mircea_popescu: no, genuinely, it's both easier and faster to teach a girl ~anything.
mircea_popescu: i wasn't saying this at all.
asciilifeform: the tailor's 'skill' and the biorobot's.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is unfortunate that same word 'skill' is used to describe both items
asciilifeform: old man tailor disappears, replaced with '9000' biorobot seamstresses working 'singers' in pre-drawn pattern, etc
mircea_popescu: ironically (at least from my experience), girls significantly more dedicated and skillable than boys.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the link is.
asciilifeform: he was discussion the deskilling. which, yes, related.
mircea_popescu: you think these related ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-18 22:29 asciilifeform: '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.'
a111: Logged on 2012-08-24 01:31 EmanuelDeOrtego_: I like that there are so many women involved with Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: variously repeated item, it is in one of the programming-related trilemas at the very least
mircea_popescu: in less lofty matters, do you happ[en to recall where the fuck i said essentially "women are the societal scar tissue, by the time males start leaving a field and women start joining it, it's fucked" ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: and we'd still be able to run it.
asciilifeform: if it had been written to a standard of 'i throw a dart, and you , programonkey, WILL justify the existence of this line, or die' the coadbase would weigh 1MB .
mircea_popescu: ye olde dos fit this, yes ? ye olde lispm, perhaps, also ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the extant babel does not contribute to nonspecificity-of-diddling. if anything, quite the opposite.
mircea_popescu: well yes, the protabilityhell starts with printf, which is why phf was using that as example.
asciilifeform: i deliberately wrote portable proggy. not even married, afaik, to 8bit byte.
asciilifeform: observe that ffa runs , per PeterL, on winblowz, despite asciilifeform having made 0 effort in this direction
mircea_popescu: and if effort is made, no more specificity of diddling, cr51 for them all ?
asciilifeform: likely if no effort at all is made to debabelize.
mircea_popescu: seems the likely course, neh ?
asciilifeform: if folx continue to operate 27 pointlessly incompatible platforms, and burn their lives fiddling with otherwise healthy coad to make it go on'em, what can i say, the gods have cursed'em and it is not in my power to uncurse
mircea_popescu: the dispute is as to whether contributing.
asciilifeform: and whatever is in my hands that can contribute to the extermination of the pointless babel, i'ma push.
mircea_popescu: no, this is simply "27 different proggies, no longet try to masquerade as 1"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunno if i will live to see the end of nonstandard iron / os / junkyard wars. but would like to, at any rate.
asciilifeform: and this specifically includes, tho not limited to , #ifdef pdp11 ...
mircea_popescu: but i suspect you will rue this day if you were to actually get your way, and at some point in 2118 all the work available consists of "try and write this thing from tree y for tree z, we don't currently know why it's a broken polymorphism to the x tree"
asciilifeform: my orig point -- asciilifeform won't be in the future signing coad that he is not equipped to run / study in detail.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, not all these choices can actually be made into meaning.
asciilifeform: it is my understanding that they tossed'em 1500 or so yrs back.
mircea_popescu: to bring this flock back to the manger : what you choose to cut out to stay afloat in the postmodern deluge of intellectual objects is your choice!
asciilifeform: but possibly i dunno where to look
asciilifeform: i looked in my copy of talmud and did not find ifdefs, lol
asciilifeform: i am unequipped to comment in detail on the rabbis and their planet.
mircea_popescu: this is traditionally the view of rabbis re bulk of commentary mass.
asciilifeform: and this is the way it is.
asciilifeform: if microshit ends up back from the dead and intellectually dominating the darkfyootoor , it can continue the old branch, and old dead asciilifeform won't be able to do a thing about it
asciilifeform: i cut winblowz #ifdefolade out of trb because i did not read it and don't intend to.
asciilifeform: the kabbalist is intellectually ahead of the ifdefist -- he reads what he comments/copies.
mircea_popescu: seems the ifdef approach to the problem is more in the vein of the kaballah+commentary (ie, the right thing) than in the vein of the xtian "translated scripture" + "megachurch", ie, idiocy.
asciilifeform: what asciilifeform would like, is at the very least to stop elongating the dead branches himself. and to stop encouraging others. for this, it is necessary to actually cut the variants into branches.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 20:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the 2nd fold of the error : the NOTION of translation is pernicious, and stuff like the protestant lulz of "church of self-esteem" or "we choose to emphasize <bla>" are not unbound errors.
asciilifeform: granted if they differ in pointless/trivial ways, e.g. targeting extinct iron, that's on the conscience of the folx continuing to elongate (supposing any exist) those branches.
asciilifeform: they ain't same thing, tho
mircea_popescu: having 27 independent restatements of the ~same thing is not intellectually dirty ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno i'd go so far as that, but it definitely isn't great engineering.
asciilifeform: so author ended up producing a program that is really 27 disjoint proggies masquerading as 1.
mircea_popescu: or rather, because people would prefer a single trunk for all machines, diversely broken, than a trunk for each kind of breakage.
mircea_popescu: ifdefs don't flow from prime principles, they're no if.
mircea_popescu: but yes the reason ifdefs exist is because machines are broken.
asciilifeform: i dun object to junkyard wars -- if and where we must. but there is even there a 'up tree' and 'down tree' approach.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here. "1. we have these machines ; 2. we know they're broken ; 3. alf objects to the curative process either because he doesn't like its name or because that which cureth could make ill."
asciilifeform: it's perhaps the most illustrative argument, of folx who oughta know better, issuing the others with ladder with which to climb back into proverbial tree.
mircea_popescu: no argument. but what is the ibm xt compatible, climbing down or back up ?
asciilifeform: the 2 apes require very diff approaches. for one, it is possible to think of something like engineering. for other -- train, the way one trains circus seals.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 18:24 mircea_popescu: no, let's also de-equivocate think. there's two kinds of think, one's a forge/reflow/examination of trees resulting in analytical consumption of inputs with actionable outputs guaranteed ; the other is a neurotic behaviour perhaps best described as spinning, whereby specific emotional triggers / detriggers are visited in succession. the prussian model was never concerned with the former in any sense, but merely aimed to elimi
asciilifeform: recall thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1640167 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: so where do you put the killer micro ?
asciilifeform: 'specific countermeasures' are imho rather wrongheaded approach. step1 is to correctly sort the shaved apes into the type that tries ( with variable success ) to climb ~down~ from trees, and the type which (ditto) ~back up~, and proceed from there
mircea_popescu: to which alf answers "sorry, i only fuck 19yos, i can't tell you why the tits sag" and i go "sure you do, but other people not as fortunate."
mircea_popescu: because this is all i can make of it, #ifdef 3+5=11moron, let 3+5=8.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now that all this is out of the way : would you say specific countermeasures people with known physiology take to avoid known psychopathology are engineering or not ? and if yes, what to yoi object in ifdefs besides the name ?
mircea_popescu: which takes us straight back to http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/
trinque: commonalities among the preverbal gotta be built into the meat.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
mircea_popescu: this much is true, yes. "how come mothers always know what the kids' been up to ?!?!?!?!" "riiight. because kids are so fucking original."
asciilifeform: the multilayered pile of ??? produced by 'programmer', is not so diff from schoolboy's pile of layered , tottering excuses for not having done the proverbial homework
asciilifeform: ( same braincase, also observe, seems to be optimized -- in factory model -- for baking justifications/bamboozlements/'cheque is in the mail' nonsense; and when applied to the technical , reliably produces 'surprisingly identical' piles of shit, also not surprising )
asciilifeform: braincase that worx ok for walking around and not crashing into trees, is of limited use for moar complicated/abstract work, whod'vethunkit
mircea_popescu: the reliability is starting to get to me.
asciilifeform: re the 3+5=11's , for some small # of possible values of 11, it dun strike me as in any way astonishing that folx with the same physiology will suffer same psychopathologies.
asciilifeform: faraday threw hands over magnetic field lines, also, what of it.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, asciilifeform 's lizard hitler hypothesis is exact modern restatement of ye olde "civilisation started by aliens" theory, which was precisely because belle epoque thinking folk threw their hands up over this exact stability.
asciilifeform: dun differ so much from the , what, half of the planet that thought that they think with their stomach
mircea_popescu: stone age tribe unknown to mankind, lost in the endless wastes of today's "Sakha Republic" and stone age tribe unknown to mankind, lost in the guarani lands in south america all agree, 3+5 = 11.