log☇︎
88300+ entries in 0.663s
mircea_popescu: understand, from the fact you observe deedbot has accepted my order you do not know anything other than that - to DEEDBOT it is acceptable. ie, you're uysing a priest. this is fine.
mircea_popescu: except a working model of 1 is already both deployed and theoretically understood, as described above.
asciilifeform: a working gossipd must combine two seemingly-contradictory features: 1) friend-or-foe identification on single packet - no such thing as ddos or replay remains possible -- 2) enemy on the wire can learn nothing about relation graph.
mircea_popescu: and a priest will do whatever you want him to do.
mircea_popescu: if you have signed matter, then definite things can be said. otherwise - you need a priest.
mircea_popescu: it quickly becomes dubious. because a signature permits a certain relationship. whereas gossipd rests on dubious relationships.
mircea_popescu: i'll just continue using my current system, because such a gossipd would be an outrageous degradation of everything.
mircea_popescu: a gossipd that requires me to sign anything is not to any degree interesting.
mircea_popescu: this is not only a ridiculous hope, but contrary to design principle. the point of gossipd is that he sees.
mircea_popescu: third party can check a signature as well as you can.
asciilifeform: a gossipd link of degree 1 ( 'private message' in mircea_popescu's version of the sketch ) operates on signed matter
shinohai wonders if asciilifeform has a binder full of napkin drawings in his lab
mircea_popescu: on a vapkin!
mircea_popescu: still, you know - most everything extant today started life as a nodule on something else. nothing wrong with this in principle.
mircea_popescu: most designs suffer a lot of changes when one tries to actually implement them, which is why prototypes exist in the first place.
Framedragger: right. wonder if it's any harder to have the p2p part be separate. it can create a local mountpoint which would just be additional folders/files for V to process
mircea_popescu: anyway. this "separation of concerns" objection would have a lot more meat on its imaginary bones if there actually eixsted any sort of gossipd. as there doesn't, the objection has no legs to stand on.
asciilifeform: a lynx, a manticore, a leucrota...
asciilifeform: why not also build it into not only gossipd but a shortwave antenna, a kalash, a cement mixer, stradivari, and van gogh...
a111: Logged on 2016-09-09 10:50 mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform mod6 trinque et all : what would you think about adding a p2p client to V ? it'd be like a daemon which listens for connections from peers and maintains lists of pressables.
Framedragger: OT, http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/teach-a-man-to-fish
mircea_popescu: "who are you ?" "i am my V and .sig machine" is a perfectly fine response.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-09: [00:55:24] <mod6> This hypothetical solution, even if it does work, wouldn't make it a one-button-push solution. Why? A person would need to get V + V.sig, verify, create a .wot dir, sync the patches + seals, manually or automatically, press the tree, then navigate into the pressed tree, and then `make`.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160909/#23 << yes mod6 but to clarify : "one button" refers to the situation where the user already has a trusted copy of V, and a .sig directory populated as per his taste. these are part of the definition of identity, and going forward can and should be assumed present.
mircea_popescu: we could make it work on udp, and initiate sessions through encrypting a large prime to the destination's key or some equivalent implementation, so we get to test alf's new-internet-order ideas also.
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform mod6 trinque et all : what would you think about adding a p2p client to V ? it'd be like a daemon which listens for connections from peers and maintains lists of pressables. ☟︎☟︎
pete_dushenski to take a few long blinks
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537575 << this ties in very neatly the never-ending thread about the meaning and definition of intelligence, particularly the angle about 'intelligent' being best used to describe an individual's actions ex post facto. injun is a genius only for as long as his world is of low complexity. when whitey comes over and opens pandora's box on his ass, complexity explodes and ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 18:49 mircea_popescu: gavin is ~a used cumsock.
pete_dushenski: nvm that jalopnik is a gawker property. if you stick with their hungarian writers, particularly peter orosz and mate petrany, you'll learn some mega-nifty and uber-arcane shit.
pete_dushenski: petard, it's a rare treat for yours truly to be able to say as much in this company.
pete_dushenski: re: taleb, it's also worth noting that way back in 2014 i was ~the sole voice saying that camgirl vids weren't going to turn his crank and bring him here, in the face of "oh but he's still a dude, pete" opposition, no less. whereas alf regularly gets to say "i told you so" whenever another flaw in the shitstack of personal computing is revealed, or mp whenever another usg muppet hoists himself on his own
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537375 << there are a few references on contravex as well. eg. http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/24/bitcoin-year-in-review-2014-the-price-went-down-so-we-prepared-for-war/#footnote_8_1928 ☝︎
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537331 << as with pack of gum, it's not a bad little psychological tactic, this. gets (l)users to experience the pringles-esque "once you pop you can't stop" phenomenon. ☝︎
mod6: ah, ok then. have a good night.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-09 02:22 asciilifeform: mod6: dunno that vtronic builds will ever be a 'most people' affair.
mod6: <+trinque> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537908 << this may point to the whole thing having too much "end user friendly" concern << fair enough, but many moons ago it was requested that it be a one-button-push launch. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-09 02:22 asciilifeform: mod6: dunno that vtronic builds will ever be a 'most people' affair.
asciilifeform: what's wrong with pulling a tarball and using v like normal people ?
trinque: http://trinque.org/src/logbot/ << v.pl sync pulls from a URL structure like this one, populates patches and seals
a111: Logged on 2016-09-09 02:17 mod6: i'll see where i can get to with this new idea. however, a person would have to do this to build the entire thing: get v; verify v; put vpatches, seals, and keys in place; press; then navigate to pressed dir, then `make`.
asciilifeform: but it's always worth a try.
phf: asciilifeform: have you tried contacting one of the dedicated bible printing shops? they could possibly do a small batch for you. spend int, sell the rest through wot
asciilifeform: but that is still far too much. (consider how a single american pack of paper holds 500 sheets, and its dimensions )
trinque: in no small part because V is utterly useful as a tool on its own
a111: Logged on 2016-09-09 02:11 mircea_popescu: why does make run a v anywya ?
phf: one day orcs perhaps will use it to last through the night, as a kindle
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's a bbc faggot
asciilifeform: nth generation xerox in a 3ring, aha
phf: i have an ansi copy, it's a piece of shit though
phf: fwiw dpans has a copy of tex source, first or second to last draft before the standard was sent over to ansi. there's two projects that cleanup that tex, one is dpans2texi which produces texinfo formatted (this is what i use from emacs) and another by some russians that produces a clean pdf with hyperlinks
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537758 << i never understood why the thing was published as html and not as a sexpr thing that gets htmlificated when you like ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( most cl-using folk keep a copy on own disk. it is even a gentoo port . )
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 21:58 mircea_popescu: wait, the clim authoritative spec exists as a html ?!
asciilifeform: mod6: dunno that vtronic builds will ever be a 'most people' affair. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: was there a major point ?
mod6: not a problem then.
mod6: ok. that's a minor consideration.
mod6: i'll see where i can get to with this new idea. however, a person would have to do this to build the entire thing: get v; verify v; put vpatches, seals, and keys in place; press; then navigate to pressed dir, then `make`. ☟︎
mod6: well it's earliest implementation, was a clone of our build scripts, which, used V to pull and press the source.
mircea_popescu: why does make run a v anywya ? ☟︎
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#1160 << so basically we got v running twice ? << yeah, which wont do. after my monologue earlier, I have a hunch that I might be able to get it down to a single press.
asciilifeform: like firing a pistol.
asciilifeform: i admit that the thing where v is invoked from inside a make always bothered me.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-08: [23:59:57] <mod6> Altogether, since we have V, I like the idea of keeping things like makefiles and buildscripts out of the main source tree. One can get V, press the makefile project. Run a `make`, which will in-turn, press everything via V and then build with buildroot.
boolcrap: its a solid gig
mod6: The simplest solution would be to perhaps have a deedified tarball of makefiles, much like trinque already has, get the deed, verifiy it, decode it, extract it, navigate to the make script and `make`.
mod6: This hypothetical solution, even if it does work, wouldn't make it a one-button-push solution. Why? A person would need to get V + V.sig, verify, create a .wot dir, sync the patches + seals, manually or automatically, press the tree, then navigate into the pressed tree, and then `make`.
mod6: oh yeah, we're not reall messing with any of that stuff. stator hasn't been a part of the 'orchastra' for some time now.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 23:46 mod6: It was my first hunch, during a pre-emptive go around with this to not place the makefiles in with current source base -- as pressed out via V.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 22:08 gabriel_laddel: Does anyone know of / has created a database of hardware offerings from various vendors?
mod6: Altogether, since we have V, I like the idea of keeping things like makefiles and buildscripts out of the main source tree. One can get V, press the makefile project. Run a `make`, which will in-turn, press everything via V and then build with buildroot.
mod6: I think that keeping the Makefiles as a separate V tree would keep things a lot more clean.
mod6: When creating a makefile vpatch (for examplehttp://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ebmj3/?raw=true), and then you press this out, you end up with something like this:
mod6: It was my first hunch, during a pre-emptive go around with this to not place the makefiles in with current source base -- as pressed out via V. ☟︎
mod6: And in doing so, it kinda brings us back to a previous discussion.
gabriel_laddel: Does anyone know of / has created a database of hardware offerings from various vendors? ☟︎
gabriel_laddel: and a .pdf
mircea_popescu: wait, the clim authoritative spec exists as a html ?! ☟︎
gabriel_laddel: Fucking Yegge and everyone else who was involved with CL, even tangentially did a huge disservice to the language. He (and rich hicky) complains and complains about issues that can be solved with a few macros.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 21:35 mircea_popescu: (apparently a badly balanced something or the other by steve yegge - you know, the supposedly notable derp behind http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com2006/04/lisp-is-not-acceptable-lisp.html and a whole load of java, ruby etc)
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1536791 < they're not bad. ~A power bar you buy in bulk. ☝︎
gabriel_laddel: Hey there. On a much better connection today.
a111: Logged on 2015-02-20 00:46 asciilifeform: if it takes a batshit king and world's thickest minefield to keep out 'mcdonalds', it might yet turn out to be worth it.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 19:42 ascii_field: trinque: virtually everything printed in english re: north kr is a bold-faced lie out of the mouth of south kr
Framedragger: from a friend mentioning release of iphone 7 and seeing this pic http://i.imgur.com/SAkZ0C4.jpg i just realized that apple didn't put a fucking 3.5mm jack into their newest shit"phone". srsly.
asciilifeform: is that a 100amp mains cable feeding into the cow skull ?
Framedragger: like, there's a line between stimulating the forum and trolling that should not be breached
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:840/to:840#840 << freenode kinda leaks ips, so the hostmask is not THAT strong a protection anywya.
asciilifeform: >> http://trilema.com/2013/a-simple-example-as-to-why-fiat-institutions-cant-stand <<
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: secret bot is an irc user in a channel which no-one knows to be a bot (or a bot of particular use). scriba also has that kind of hostmask (unaffiliated/framedragger/bot/scriba) but everyone knows what scriba is for.
mircea_popescu: wtf, they're going to carry a plant by the backpack so the enemy has to take 10 minute breaks after every two minutes of shooting ?
asciilifeform: actual 1man nukes were a '70s item iirc.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-news-latest-soldiers-nuclear-backpacks-kim-jong-un-tensions-us-south-korean-military-a7217401.html << typical gargle, '“Outstanding soldiers were selected from each reconnaissance platoon and light infantry brigade to form the nuclear backpack unit the size of a battalion,” the source from North Hamgyong province was quoted as saying. The supposed weapons were
mircea_popescu: Framedragger what's your notion of a difference between a public and secret bot ?
a111: Logged on 2014-03-05 02:44 mircea_popescu: bad wolf busts into snow white's cavern, offers her a simple deal :
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if u.s. lost 400 mn heads, you will have a gaping black hole in which ~80 mn. randos will get immediately sucked in. or the like.
mircea_popescu: but more's the pojnt : even in very genetically diverse populations (such as yurpeans, because colonialism! such as not redskins, because stoneage losers), a good portion of the population has poor vaccine response.
asciilifeform: soooo mircea_popescu knows of a case of indian suffering smallpox 2+ times ?
mircea_popescu: vacciness work through stimulating the expression of pre existing genes/proteins/complexes, not by creating a magical forcefield around your dick.)