839400+ entries in 0.65s
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 207.48043, Best ask: 208.28998, Bid-ask spread: 0.80955, Last
trade: 208.28998, 24 hour volume: 5828.45863154, 24 hour low: 204.02000, 24 hour high: 209.79000, 24 hour vwap: 206.99371
pankkake: however it's interesting
to node
that wtogami contributes a lot
to bitcoin
pankkake: skinnkavaj: could you point out
the commits? I have a feeling you don't know how git works
pankkake: skinnkavaj: *I* made changes
to
the litecoin source code. are you flabbergasted yet?
jurov: at least
they are classy. unlike xrrrrrp
skinnkavaj: And you
think LTC is uselesss? You are useless for
thinking
that
skinnkavaj: So
tonight Gavin Andresen made changes
to Litecoin source code
ozbot: The perfect escrow pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
nubbins`: from
the next zine we're publishing
ozbot: imgur:
the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: “There is a cult of ignorance in
the United States, and
there has always been.
The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant
thread winding its way
through our political and cultural life, nurtured by
the false notion
that democracy means
that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
dexX7: ah, i
think you mistake it with www.litecoininvest.com?
Kleeck_: I was
told
that
the site was coming back into operation?
dexX7: he was
the admin
there
the whole
time
VanCleef: say you spent 100grand on a bus
ticket right and instead of
the bus driver picking you up he crashes into your living room and starts raping your grandmother
lurker: asciilifeform/mircea_popescu: bitcoin is a bus. do you care what engine it has? (on
this, night night / arrevedere)
VanCleef: what do buses have
to do with scamming people out of money?
VanCleef: taking satoshi
to court over
this
dexX7: hey asciilifeform, do you have a blog or something similar,
too? it's not
the first
time i see you posting something interesting
VanCleef: looking at what happening
to mining
mircea_popescu: and
they had a pretty good solution for
the byzantine generals, rtoo.
mircea_popescu: VanCleef you're not even kidding, i get a lot of (mostly, older, mostly white, mostly male, republican
types) very indignant at how
they knoiw btc
to be a scam
lurker: mircea_popescu: I don't see anything
that would put value before demand.
VanCleef: bitcoin is a new global scam
tho
ozbot: Bitcoin pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: the fact
that it gives better answers
to several classes of problems
lurker: OK, so what, for you, creates
the value of bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: but in more advanced applications,
there's little way
to distinguish between "tech" and "the rules of
the world"
mircea_popescu: in a sense,
the
tech creates
the ontological limits of
the discourse.
this is not visible as much in "classical" applications, because somehow it's obvious
that your particular abilities
to deal with weak nuclear force are involved.
lurker: asciilifeform: I'm not looking at it from
the
technology standpoint.
mircea_popescu: this is why
the qe does not improve
the position of
the us.
mircea_popescu: for
that matter, demand does not create value. value creates demand.
lurker: Then comes demand for
the quanta and
that creates value.
lurker: Many miners (many copies of
the blockchain) builds
trust in
the blockchain itself.
lurker: Trust is what
the blockcahin builds.
mircea_popescu: yes, it does. being happy always boils down
to 1. identify what
to do
to be happy and 2. doing
that.
lurker: It comes down
to
the same
thing: can you be sure
that system is doing what you expect it
to? (= do you
trust
the system)
mircea_popescu: as
the implementation becomes less centralised (for instance
through
the workings of democracy, and lawmakers pushing agendas etc),
mircea_popescu: in a centralised system,
the assumption is
that
the implementation is friendly
to
the design, and
the cop will do what
the fuck
the law says he should do.
mircea_popescu: what makes
the actual cop at your door (implementation) follow
this principle (design) ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, a very simple example
to understand what i mean : suppose
the law says nobody may search your house without a warrant.
lurker: back
to my earlier questions: are you discussing
technology or market (money)?
mircea_popescu: the particular way bitcoin forces
this is
through
the blockchain.
mircea_popescu: if you
take
the latter, you can't so asume.
the implementation has
to be somehow forced
to stick
to
the design
mircea_popescu: if you
take
the former, you can asume
the implementation is friendly.
lurker: are we
talking markets or
technology?
mircea_popescu: looky here. you decide
to make a system. next step, is
to decide whether it shall be centralised or decentralised.
mircea_popescu: those
things are by and large irrelevant in
this discussion.
mircea_popescu: the 51% attack is a weakness of
the particular solution used
to implement decentralisation.
mircea_popescu: the system is not based on "trust/demand/decentralization".
the system is based on
the blockchain because it has
to use some solution for
the byzantyne problem once it's decentralised.
lurker: when you have centralization, you lose
trust and without it you lose demand and value.
lurker: that means
the weakness of bitcoin IS centralization
lurker: the fact
that
there is a "51%" problem at all for a system based on
trust/demand/decentralization
lurker: anyway,
the centralization/decentralizatio n"issue" in bitcoin always struck me as ironic.
lurker: (and it's late - I'm not particularly articulate at
this hour)
lurker: that's
the kind of
thing you "just know" but you can't put it into works (2 different parts of
the brain)
mircea_popescu: i
think you're jumping
to conclusions on very little data, and
the shape of
those conclusions is visibly more influenced by your own ideas of
the world
than
the actual reality of
the matter
lurker: If
the winkelvoss
types start "attacking"
the bitcoin market, it will have
the effect of a middlecoin on
the latest scamcoin.
lurker: The problem is getting from where we are
to
there.
lurker: I can see
this if
these 2 miners are, say, banks, with lots of customers, all using bitcoin.
lurker: However,
that means a lot of centralization will have happened.
lurker: mircea_popescu:
there might be a way
to attack
this mathematically but I don't know if
there is an exact answer
to "how much".
The extreme min. would be
to have 2
trusted but untrusting miners.
Bugpowder: Looks like my call
to short it at 1BTC would have been profitable, if I had pulled
the
trigged and not gotten stopped out. :-P
Bugpowder: ThickAsThieves: Did you short your AM PTs all
the way down?
pankkake: yeah,
the advantage is
that
there is no shortage of
them :p
pankkake: perhaps
they'll buy DPR's coins!
gribble: This order would exceed
the size of
the order book. You would buy 37088.785 bitcoins, for a
total of 6626978770.6762 USD and
take
the price
to 99999999999.0000. | Data vintage: 113.4446 seconds
gribble: This order would exceed
the size of
the order book. You would buy 37088.785 bitcoins, for a
total of 6626978770.6762 USD and
take
the price
to 99999999999.0000. | Data vintage: 107.4166 seconds
gribble: A market order
to buy 20000 bitcoins right now would
take 4511753.5588 USD and would
take
the last price up
to 248.6458 USD, resulting in an average price of 225.5877 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 94.1080 seconds
pankkake: it's probably only looking at mtgox
though
lurker: samn, I wanted
to buy for 20M$ in BTC. I guess
the Vii will have
to be patient...
gribble: This order would exceed
the size of
the order book. You would buy 37088.785 bitcoins, for a
total of 6626978770.6762 USD and
take
the price
to 99999999999.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0037 seconds
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 206.99000, Best ask: 207.40932, Bid-ask spread: 0.41932, Last
trade: 206.96100, 24 hour volume: 10522.93290146, 24 hour low: 200.42000, 24 hour high: 209.79000, 24 hour vwap: 206.35675
jurov: RIP.
these fkn chemtrails, you know.
dexX7: he should open a
thread on btctalk