tmsr - Search: a

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shinohai: I'm so tired of seeing it when I troll for articles I'm thinking of writing a script that blocks it from my browser

mod6: Getting a way from bdb will be a huge long term scalability effort. And we've had some very interesting ideas suggested for replacement. So I think that'll be a whole part of the Ideal Bitcoin probably. Right now, tickets 6, 7, and 8 are on a disconnected graph, but could be easily joined to the greater "Ideal" effort.

shinohai thinks it is nice to finally read a Bitcoin development conversation that doesn't include the term `Segwit`

mod6: helping you (among many other end users), have a better/easier time with the wallet is a huge win.

trinque: a rawtx command would be *very* nice

mod6: It'll be a challenge, but good for all in the end.

mod6: So right now, the import/dump priv key is being reviewed/reground/updated/tested. Next, I'd say we take a hard look at maybe the rawtx one, or maybe even some of the log cleanup ones? There were a whole bunch submitted by polar_beard.

mod6: Well, short term, I think the current goal is to get through some of these vpatch submissions as we said we would. Hopefully get through a bunch by year end. (Jan 8th) However, the longer term goal is to work on Ideal bitcoin.

mod6: Perhaps you can see if there was an error. I didn't get a bounce message, yet. Will let you know if I see anything on my end.

phf: !~later tell gabriel_laddel fyi a handy hack for doing binary patching of deployed lisp images http://www.nicklevine.org/play/patching-made-easy.html i used a variation of that back when i was doing lisp consulting

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:48 gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560716 < it may be that CLIM itself sucks -- but the implementation is 100% common lisp and is easy enough to mechanically alter if you have problems with it. Should tmsr~ decide to strip whatever features from CLIM and alter the spec, at least we have a codebase and spec to argue about and something working to us

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:40 phf: gabriel_laddel: i wasn't thinking of selling your product, but i wouldn't mind trying to do the deployment on a own hardware

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560997 << this is exactly how it goes, on one end of that : everyone has his own boxes / his own process for acquiring boxes. you can't buy them boxes and mail them over, not really, and if you could it'd be a specialized job and wouldn't work like this. and this isn't even the only angle, people are also variously allergic to divers proteins involved etc. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:32 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm just selling them by hand at the moment in the bay area (going to google for a scheme meetup to hawk product here in ~.5 hrs)

mircea_popescu: shinohai you know where there's the src and everyone sane can ftjam it into a working binary within 20 minutes except you still get o spend your life telling people things ?

mircea_popescu: i think it's a very bad idea to misrepresent this (here) as "selling the box" because it'll cause you nothing but frictive grief.

BingoBoingo: A Republican Operating System Kernel+Userland should not be referred to by such hippy dippy terms like "Distro". It is a "Destro", a tool like a reciprocating saw, rotary hammer, or blasting cap.

trinque off for a bit

trinque: fwiw ben_vulpes already had a cl-V in the works

gabriel_laddel: Noted. When I get a chance I will look into V. This means _after_ the world replication works. Which, for whatever reason, produces a linux kernel that kernel panics on startup.

gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560799 < the only way to distribute CLIM using CL codebases IMHO is as a "world" that is a livecd + the ability to install itself on another x86_64 machine, with all the sources. ☝︎

trinque: get a new key already

trinque: and even without fancy shit like that, I don't notice a damn thing lagging

trinque: re alf's realtime rant, I can't see how that's not possible, perhaps by interrupting an ongoing redisplay with a condition?

trinque: found this out a few days ago

trinque: it turned out that I was using some ancient mcclim from a copy of their old CVS on a particular dev machine

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:45 phf: trinque: i'd like to at least try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is terribly over-engineered (in the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect

gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560716 < it may be that CLIM itself sucks -- but the implementation is 100% common lisp and is easy enough to mechanically alter if you have problems with it. Should tmsr~ decide to strip whatever features from CLIM and alter the spec, at least we have a codebase and spec to argue about and something working to us ☝︎☟︎☟︎

gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560440 < 2.5k usd. Per month, until I bitched about it and it was knocked down to $600/mo - anyways, it isn't about the money, it's about him doing absolutely nothing with it and making a mess that someone will have to clean up. ☝︎☟︎

deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/10/31/bugatti-translated/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Bugatti, translated.

trinque: and the "free" can be an excuse to not produce a complete tool

phf: gabriel_laddel: i wasn't thinking of selling your product, but i wouldn't mind trying to do the deployment on a own hardware ☟︎

trinque: my point of interest is developing climthings in a climthing

gabriel_laddel: trinque: as for what is included: McCLIM integrated with: macsyma, femlisp, MJRCALC, a manual, nope.js and more-or-less broken prototypes of everything else on the splash screen screenshot.

gabriel_laddel: When my life is less shit I'll be setting up a method by which in-WOT people can get it for free. You all, of course, will be able to sell the same product I am. ☟︎

gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm just selling them by hand at the moment in the bay area (going to google for a scheme meetup to hawk product here in ~.5 hrs) ☟︎

phf: oh i guess you pulled all the masamune material on account of selling it? i remember there was a bunch of dedicated content, that's no longer there (arsstep being one of them)

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 04:04 mircea_popescu: anyway, the linked github is like the first laddel piece over a few dozen words that nevertheless made sense from end to end.

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 03:33 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560415 << lol, I'm under the impression that gabriel_laddel trolls logs for highlights with a script, or would've provided better context

gabriel_laddel: phf: I have. It is called masamune, and you buy a discrete box from me that comes with everything on it.

ben_vulpes: didja bring trinque a vpatch, gabriel_laddel ?

asciilifeform: if you have a mechanical disk, add a second or so for it to spin up

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 19:37 mircea_popescu: i dunno who cares about boot times, a machine that's booted isn't intended for serious use anyway

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560936 << i care in a few special cases. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i dunno who cares about boot times, a machine that's booted isn't intended for serious use anyway ☟︎

asciilifeform: what i ~do~ have a strongly developed allergy to is attempts to redefine minimal expectations using 'new realities'

trinque: I will rape the thing with a huge benchmark and speak of it further at that time.

asciilifeform: phf: picture if your car gives out, a decade from now, and you walk into a dealership, grudgingly buying new one. there, you learn that all new cars emit phosgene gas, some of which leaks into the cabin, and you gotta wear a mask. but this does not help against the microwaves that slowly roast yer balls, from the new type of waveguide transmission they use.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, because you have a magic ball and know wtf he's looking at as he says that ?

phf: so depending on what sort of algorithms are used (i.e. knowing how mcclim works) a "get a faster machine" might be a valid response to "mcclim is slow", or it can be invalid, if, say, there's combinatorial exposition in the component interaction, or if there's a polynomial behavior in large text processing (those are two usual suspects)

phf: mircea_popescu: dog slow is same as intractable but applied to system design, solution that theoretically works but in practice takes too long to be useful. depending on the kind of algorithms involved dog slow has different solutions, like if it's a linear algorithm, then you can solve dog slow with a faster machine, but if it's a polynomial complexity algorithm, then dog slow might be solved by putting constraints on inputs

mircea_popescu: as far as anyone knows, dog slow kinda means exactly that "irritatingly slow to me", to which "i don't feel any delays" is a valid counter.

mircea_popescu: my call times out, thereby let us point out to phf that what calling something a term of art means is that you have a ready and perfect definition of the term in the respective context. no exceptions.

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 18:09 asciilifeform: if proggy's job is to let me fiddle something in real time, there must be 0 palpable delay. you would not put up with a light switch that takes random(5,10) seconds to light, and to switch off.

a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:58 asciilifeform: jurov: tank is a particular type of tractor, let's say. it cultivates sovereignty (or did, in the age of the tank, but why nitpick) rather than edibles.

asciilifeform: aha some don't walk. there was a photo leaked of a radar base, where they had one of the few completed elbrus. in the corner desk there was what looked like winblows. nfi, could be hangout, perhaps the 'indigenous base' happened, strictly in ru meta-nsa.

asciilifeform: let'em buy a new ~that~.

mircea_popescu: "CIA is cyber B-Team, yes? Where is cyber A-Team?" << i lollered. where, they're gone, locked in alf's basement.

mircea_popescu: they're not speaking english. like you know, most females that a) ever get fucked and b) someone'd ever contemplate fucking

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:45 asciilifeform: '... just over a week before the presidential election, top Democrats are demanding that he level the playing field and disclose what the FBI knows about Republican nominee Donald Trump’s possible ties to the Russian government.'

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 17:43 asciilifeform: '“I would highly doubt that they’re armed,” he said, “that poses a greater threat. Normally, standard operating procedure for the Secret Service is to never have armed security around our protectee—ever. Even working closely with sworn law enforcement officers around the protectee is a very delicate situation.”' << lel, no word on whether clitler and the monkey disarmed mr t's guards, but... we'll PRETEND! they did. appar

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560707 << it's not so simple though. a lot of revolving door, you know, same one dork could be both. ☝︎

phf: trinque: it's a cyberpunk-ish theme hack from back when you could customize os x's look and feel

phf: blit operations are your 80% in a traditional display framework), which usually is a sign of "too many layers"

phf: well, mcclim layers things in a way that i thought was part of the spec, but turns out it was beach's decision (to among other things support multiple different backends). when i was trying to optimize the x11 backend last time, i was hitting multiple "independent" layers, that all demanded attention. there wasn't really an 80/20 solution, which made me conclude that there's not a single subtrate that you can optimize (the way, say,

a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 00:19 trinque: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/clim << this would've been a fine use for V

asciilifeform: if proggy's job is to let me fiddle something in real time, there must be 0 palpable delay. you would not put up with a light switch that takes random(5,10) seconds to light, and to switch off. ☟︎

asciilifeform: then it is fine if it wants to run for a month.

asciilifeform: trinque can use whatever he likes on his box, but if i run a proggy and have to count '1, 2, 3,...' after pressing a key and before seeing screen draw, it goes in the shit bin.

phf: anyway, i want to try and deploy masamune, but i'm also trying to spin up clim2 to see if it's maybe less of a dog (i imagine it would be since it was probably battle optimized for all that ported-from-legacy contractor software)

asciilifeform: see, i am willing to buy 10k box, or whatnot, to get fast clim. but i am not willing to close eyes and call a turd sausage.

phf: trinque: i don't think anyone's telling you what to do, but to honestly consider what you can observe, and compare it to what we can observe. asciilifeform is saying that clim is slow for him, i'm saying that there's something in clim design that makes it tricky to make it fast. it's a converstion.

asciilifeform: but in many ways the move to multiuser os on home comp was a bait-and-switch scam

asciilifeform: trinque: i asked that you compare to a very factual 'yesterday', rather than imagined futures

phf: asciilifeform: inherent, because of how many layers message needs to pass through in order to do a key-press <-> render roundtrip. accelerator is not going to help there

asciilifeform: (but there first has to be such a thing)

phf: asciilifeform: i can feel delays in x11 emacs after working on a hardware terminal, which makes me conclude that "feels" kind of changes once you get used to it. i can't use popular hipster software for example, because it's definitely slower

asciilifeform: phf: i dun see why 'inherent', if i gotta buy a hardware accelerator, i'll buy

asciilifeform: the example earlier, 'word perfect on msdos 5', has ~0 perceptible delays. and this was on the junkiest hardware ~ever sold as a comp.

trinque: sometimes you're a completely ridiculous man, you know.

phf: trinque: "dog slow" is a term of art, and it's inherent in mcclim design, because of how it's layered. "feels fast to me" is the worst possible measure of it. asciilifeform is not being particularly precise with his terminology, but you will run into dog slow once you start trying out corner cases (long unwrapped lines, fast rapid draws, massive repl outputs)

asciilifeform: trinque: in all fairness, i have nfi what you used before, maybe it was a telegraphist drawing on chalkboard. so yes, faster.

trinque: ttf, just a screen with some gadgets that update periodically with new data

trinque: asciilifeform: running mcclim over here on a puny armhf without lag

trinque: And former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page is alleged to have visited with two Russian government officials in a possible effort to open a diplomatic backchannel with the Kremlin, according to U.S. officials. << my god, talking with russians!

asciilifeform: ooh i almost forgot, on the cray i'll need a $10k payware lisp, yes

phf: trinque: i'd like to at least try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is terribly over-engineered (in the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: '... just over a week before the presidential election, top Democrats are demanding that he level the playing field and disclose what the FBI knows about Republican nominee Donald Trump’s possible ties to the Russian government.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: '“I would highly doubt that they’re armed,” he said, “that poses a greater threat. Normally, standard operating procedure for the Secret Service is to never have armed security around our protectee—ever. Even working closely with sworn law enforcement officers around the protectee is a very delicate situation.”' << lel, no word on whether clitler and the monkey disarmed mr t's guards, but... we'll PRETEND! they did. appar ☟︎

trinque: phf: it's getting interesting right? it's not the final solution, but it'd be a step up from emacs if it works.

phf: well, if he thinks that's a good idea, he might potentially save me a bunch of work :}

trinque: the piece is a hit on his security practices

phf: !~later tell gabriel_laddel have you considered putting ~everything~ masamune into a single tree, prepatched, so that instead of "load X, then load my patch-foo-for-X" you just have everything under single hierarchy exactly the way you expect it to run in production?

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is a complicated point.

asciilifeform: incidentally here's a possible litmus: did mr t accept the 'free' guards traditionally given to candidates, or keep using own ?

mircea_popescu: note in passing that one of the more substantial objections "people in the know" aka niggers raise to a trump presidency is that "he won't be able to staff wh, he could barely staff his campaign".

asciilifeform: i always wondered if the very sad infrastructure in washington, a kind of frozen-in-time 1970s theme park, is at least partly on account of the expectation that anthill will be leveled 'any day' ☟︎

mircea_popescu: as ~everyone with two neurons to rub together has been disabused of this notion, the next guy who wants to change.org might as well point a nuke to the white house.