82900+ entries in 0.05s
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 21:23 ben_vulpes: so accounting's job is
to provide a reasonable, non-malicious estimate of
that value, and let investors perform
their own valuation based on whether
they
think
that a high or low value for
the
tangible in question.
mircea_popescu: jurov
that'd be what criticizing IS, lol. not
that
there's anything wrong with criticizing.
lobbesbot: spyked: Sent 4 days, 8 hours, and 44 minutes ago: <mircea_popescu> any interest adding ^ functionality
to spykedbot ?
a111: Logged on 2018-08-02 00:04 mircea_popescu: !Qlater
tell spyked any interest adding ^ functionality
to spykedbot ?
jurov: mod6: ben_vulpes: i'm not criticizing, only nudging you
to write your accounting standards down
BingoBoingo: In other propaganda campaigns, OG Pantsuit Patrick Stewart has been signed
to do a revival of his clasic series: Bipeds Sitting In Chairs And Stairing At Screens While Wearing Pajamas
phf: also shiva situation is different. shiva pressed files,
that are not otherwise referenced in subsequent patches, but which are required for
the operation of final product. an out of band genesis
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 22:57 asciilifeform: !!later
tell phf
http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc << is not a valid vpatch !!!!!! and yer viewer should have rang
the alarms. it references files not in
the genesis !
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839743 << probably a multiroot situation. otherwise btcbase does sound alarm (e.g.
the "deprecated" patchset has some examples). ftr btcbase is a visualizer of extant patches, it is
to some extent more permissive by design
than production vtron
☝︎ mod6: ben_vulpes:
thoughts on jurov's questions?
mod6: jurov: um, not sure? i would venture
to guess
that we depreciate monthly as it's possible
that a piece of equipment might die before a year is up, or even come DOA.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform:
The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform:
The operation succeeded.
jurov: So far I'm not doing depreciation at all. Only have
to
take care when an item is broken/sold,
that
the correct amount is subtracted from
tangibles.
jurov: second question is, are you clear how exactly are you doing it.
tracking and depreciating every item is imo unnecessarily hairy
jurov: mod6: won't it be sufficient
to do depreciation once per year, if at all?
☟︎ mod6: but let's leave
this for another day.
mod6: I've gotta run for a bit here, maybe later when you're availble we can go
through calculating
that customer equity. i did some adding, but I came up about 50% short. clearly missing something
there.
☟︎ mod6: ok, so I've gone
through
this
table, aside from
the customer equity line, and it looks good.
mod6: dear lord,
this customer equity line
ben_vulpes: i'm here, we're close
to
the bottom. may as well finish it out.
mod6: thanks for stopping in
to help fill in
the gaps, I appreciate
that.
mod6: go do what ya gotta do. i said I was gonna go
through
this whole
thing, and learn some stuff.
ben_vulpes: mod6: what else
troubles ye, i have other sisyphean boulders slipping back downhill as we speak
mod6: gonna check out
this liabilities
table
mod6: actually, no
that's right. not rounded at all.
mod6: rounded down
though >D
ben_vulpes: show me
the perl
that doesn't mangle double floats...
ben_vulpes: a bitcent says
that's
the difference between purchased usd and expenses denominated in usd, redenominated in btc.
mod6: yeah, i noticed
this before
that it's not quite
the same number as listed in netchange
ben_vulpes: some .04 btc discrepancy from
the report
ben_vulpes: right, so factor out
the invariant and let's calculate
the net change since
that's where we'll find discrepancies.
mod6: Which is:
The number from
the beginning of
the month <first number> + DC payment <second number> + living expenses <third number> + sum of depreciation from
the
tangibles
table
ben_vulpes: i mean
to say
that
the .3 btc was spent on usd, some fraction of which was not in
turn spent on expenses.
ben_vulpes: first off,
the .3 btc was spent on cash
ben_vulpes: how about we just look at
the net change, first
ben_vulpes: (to be used in next months reports, etc. hence "reports as ground
truth and not your account balance")
ben_vulpes: ayup,
this is how
the bottom-of-the-report
tables work: summing
the previous months values against
the current months values
to derive a current number.
mod6: Yeah, didn't realize
that I had
to add in
the number from
the beginning of
the month (end of last month), in
this case "4.77078675"
ben_vulpes: calculated per "sum
the value of all non-capitalized purchases (DC, fiat spent denominated in BTC, and
the sum of depreciation charges), and mark
that as net change for intangibles and goodwill"
mod6: oooh ok. lemme check
that.
ben_vulpes: sum of previous month's goodwill and
this month's goodwill
mod6: ok, so where do we get
the month-end number for intangibles, g/w "5.59699926" ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 04:47 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how does
the server rental fee make sense as "intangibles and goodwill"?
ben_vulpes: mod6: what is unclear about
that line?
ben_vulpes: mod6: 10.4 is more of a note about what happens in various scenarios
than instructions relevant
to anything happening in
this month's report
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> i do not
think
that
this coupling is necessary, however. a photo of
the exchange rate from BingoBoingo at
the same cambio on
the 27th every month may be adequate. <<
This I can do
mod6: gonna read
through
the steps again
mod6: I'm on step 10.4 here... having some
trouble.
ben_vulpes: so accounting's job is
to provide a reasonable, non-malicious estimate of
that value, and let investors perform
their own valuation based on whether
they
think
that a high or low value for
the
tangible in question.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: yeah, keep in mind
that
the
tangibles line is, again per "Accounting for
the nonzero asset corporation" "any and all assets
that could reasonably be expected
to be exchangeable for BTC, even if at a loss"
mod6: I
think I'm alright with
that, again, if it's considered a "notional" number.
mod6: ahh, alright. i get what you mean. so it's a bit simpler
to just get
the forex number at
the
time of
the statement, rather
than having
to old up
the previous months statement until a BTC/USD price point is established.
ben_vulpes: i do not
think
that
this coupling is necessary, however. a photo of
the exchange rate from BingoBoingo at
the same cambio on
the 27th every month may be adequate.
ben_vulpes: value for
the previous month's closing value of
the uyu/btc rate (which is also
the opening rate for
the next month)
ben_vulpes: the past
two statements i have pulled
that value from xe or forex.com at
the
time of statement generation. if you want
to couple
the UYU/USD price
timing
to
that of
the USD/BTC price
timing, you'd have
to hold off on issuing
the previous month's statement until you have a btc price signal /for
the month after
the statement/, and
then ask BingoBoingo what
the uyu/usd rate is on
that day in order
to provide a
mod6: ok np at all, just
trying
to get
the process of getting
these numbers.
take your
time. i feel like I'm learning a lot here with all of
this, it's super helpful.
ben_vulpes: we're
talking
tiny amounts of btc, but good process and understanding are important at
the outset
to forestall
tears later, so bear with me
a111: Logged on 2018-08-05 20:51 mod6: ben_vulpes: gotcha. any idea what number you used?
This should go into my notes so I know
to record
the UYU/USD exchange rate at
the
time of
the setting of
the monthly price point.
ben_vulpes: mod6: i did not update
that row after using
the wrong conversion factor for fiat liabilities on my first pass;
thank you for spotting
that
mod6: and btw,
the steps are very helpful!
thank you much for writing
themup
mod6: i was just following your steps, and since it was actually in use, figured
that maybe we just forgot about it.
ben_vulpes: can prorate depreciation if you'd like, i elected not
to.
mod6: ok so now
that i've figured out
that cash number from
the Assets
table,
there will still
two other questions for you above ^ when you get a chance:
the depreciation of UY3, and
the sum of
the book values.
ben_vulpes: mod6: for what it's worth, i
twice audited holdings while generating statements and
they both came out correct. i suggest you use
the statement generation process (combing
through ledger/invoice output)
to generate statements first, and audit against your personal accounts as a check.
mod6: i honestly
think
that would be a much clearer accounting way
to go.
ben_vulpes: anyways yes, if you want
to audit
the correctness of
the statement against
the value of cash held on behalf of pizarro, you will have
to deduct your personal
transactions from whatever account pizarro
transactions flow in order
to calculate a correct number.
mod6: i've
thought about it. maybe further discussion around
the
topic will help change my mind.
ben_vulpes: mod6: nothing stops you from doing
this
ben_vulpes: book
truth lies in
the statements; it is useful
to verify
that
the cash line is correct but i would use it as a check, not
the starting point from which
to generate statements given a) payment
timing b) personal use of accounts
mod6: it would be nice if pizarro had it's own key and could keep it's own ledger, but
then who would control or hold said key, and
that doesn't work either.
mod6: well, at lesat, until I send
them
to BingoBoingo, in which case, he might have his own subtraction he'll have
to do.
that's
the messiest part of doing
the pizarro
thing
through personal deedbot accounts.
mod6: it's
the amount
that mod6 himself had in his deedbot account before I was sent Pizarro's 6.21445021 BTC.
ben_vulpes: oh,
this is summing accounts and pulling your change out of your deedbot balance?
ben_vulpes: what is
that .08 you're subtracting out?
mod6: perfect,
that's exactly
the number I was looking for.
ben_vulpes: usd/uyu are fiat assets. get booked as
tangibles. see
the
tangibles
table.
mod6: or just
the fiat or other cash lines?