log☇︎
751400+ entries in 0.497s
deadweasel: i wait for them to fucking beg me to explain it
ThickAsThieves: mp, did yo edit the url at some point?
ninjashogun: deadweasel - okay. So what happens when YOU explain bitcoin to a newbie?
deadweasel: ninjashogun: the mental hurdles people put up for themselves are far higher than the small mental hurdles you have bounded to understand it.
mircea_popescu: leads one to a random trilema page ?
mircea_popescu: can anyone explain to me why clikcion on pete's link in note 5 http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/there-is-no-bitcoin-2-0/#fn-197-5
ninjashogun: Normal users, for reasons we can appreciate, would then proceed to buy bitcoins if they had something they wanted to buy in bitcoins. (And only then.) This is currency working as it should.
asciilifeform: 'throw transport down the well, so yer country can be free!' (sasha baroncohen)
deadweasel: Cardono, TM, secures your btc and burns your jews, automatically!
ninjashogun: That would be the normal answer to the question you just stated....
asciilifeform: bitcoinpete: i wish people didn't spread messianic exaggeration re: cardano. it isn't a Final Solution, just intended to be a little oasis in the desert.
ThickAsThieves: they make zero effort to actually initiate a new user
ThickAsThieves: this is also why i find those BigFoot bitcoin brochures so out of touch
ninjashogun: deadweasel - what's wrong with the answer to your question "explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some" - bitcoin is just a currency like euros or pounds, except you don't need to involve banks, it works more like cash. If you want to buy something in pounds (let's say you visit London) you get some pounds at an exchange (using dollars). if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you get some bi
moiety: well done for managing this far deadweasel
FabianB: i sell euro if i want rmb to get around in china
deadweasel: ninjashogun, i seem to have lost you completely. but i know one thing, the last time I thought I had some insight on bitcoin I asked everyone here. turns out i was wrong.
ninjashogun: so as soon as people starting talking about "Buying things with bitcoin" then it's pretty obvious how it works.
moiety: I'm struggling with weighing up the frustration:lulz in relation to the ignore function
ThickAsThieves: except that your online banking has Undo
mircea_popescu: maybe they work, fuck knows. let people try.
ThickAsThieves: it's much more akin to your onlin banking username and password
ninjashogun: deadweasel, so if you were to say, "I bought $100 with my bicycle" it would - as you point out - sound like incoherent ramblings. It should be written, "I SOLD my bike for $100".
mircea_popescu: the jury in my head is out on the entire topic of bitcoin-backed ccs
ThickAsThieves: in this way i think it's unwise to use normal cash wallets as the intro to noobs
ninjashogun: deadweasel, sorry I wasn't clear enough. The difficulty with 'buying' a currency is that people don't think of 'buying' a dollar, or euro, or pound. It's a difficult concept for most people. People think of using currency, not buying it.
mircea_popescu: turns out you can rent hotel rooms w/o credit cards just fine. provided you wear a suit and your gangster roll is larger than the receptionists' penis
deadweasel: honestly, i can't follow your ramblings at present, ninjashogun, how could you possibly explain it to a newbie?
FabianB: andd germany is still more cash than credit cards as well
ninjashogun: deadweasel, it doesn't make much sense to say "I bought $100 with my used bike." It feels wrong. But it's accurate.
ThickAsThieves: mp, but for the things you use cash for, would you ever use bitcoin instead?
mircea_popescu: did in the us, also. never had a problem with it, contrary to what people say
ninjashogun: deadweasel, the major hurdle is that people who don't do forex don't normally talk of 'buying' currency. That's the only hurdle. Specifically:
ThickAsThieves: as you probly think you do about most things
mircea_popescu: i use cash only too.
deadweasel: stop thinking then
FabianB: mircea_popescu: but probably true for jp, korea and china, more or less
ninjashogun: deadweasel - I think i have some insight on this.
deadweasel: you'll find the hurdles
FabianB: mircea_popescu: that was a personal statement, not country statistics
deadweasel: ninjashogun, explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay thanks for the inspiration!
ninjashogun: unless there is some inherent conceptual hurdle that people can't understand.
mircea_popescu: FabianB where's that again ? japan ?
ThickAsThieves: common man also cant figure out to not open exe files from their email
bitcoinpete: i'll just quietly leave this here: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/there-is-no-bitcoin-2-0/
ninjashogun: I would very humbly suggest that in the long term it might be.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, but why such a strong statement above? "bitcoin really isnt for the masses"
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I understand this.
ThickAsThieves: like i said, you are comparing the wrong thing
mircea_popescu: (the first nymphlet to drink piss)
ninjashogun: So we've identified two differences (1) transactions are final (2) there is a history of transactions somewhere. Is there anything else that would be a conceptual hurdle for everyone using bitcoin?
gribble: Undine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine>; Undine (novella) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine_(novella)>; Undine (alchemy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine_(alchemy)>
deadweasel: do the undo
ninjashogun: But this is true with a wallet as well. When you hand someone cash you don't expect to be able to unhand them that cash.
ThickAsThieves: the difference really is that transactions are final
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I'm not sure why bitcoin can't be for the masses. A wallet is an extremely close analogy with a physical wallet. The only major difference is the history. Isn't it?
ThickAsThieves: i also told them not to do anything i said
ThickAsThieves: i told her to buy FIG
ThickAsThieves: bitcoin really isnt for the masses
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I guess I had a different market in mind, not the true bottom third of the Pyramid of society.
ThickAsThieves: i told her i wouldnt sell to them because theyd still need a wallet anyway
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, thank you for that link. I actually completely agree with it.
mircea_popescu: paypal is not a website, and the government is not some twerps.
asciilifeform: obstruct vision, living arrangements all thought through and everything.' (mp's http://trilema.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga)
asciilifeform: petent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or whatever they’re called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, they’ve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to ☟︎
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: 'Honest toil not so much, but honest cunning aplenty in this fabled subsection of the population, the offensively stupid poor. The costs of the strategic mistake of dealing with them are huge. Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations com
ThickAsThieves: yeah but can i just buy them with PayPal?
ThickAsThieves: i was like, dont you buy stuff online all the time?
ThickAsThieves: last night a couple asked me the easiest way to buy bitcoin, I said Coinbase, you just need to enter your checking account info, and the wife was all, I'm not putting my checking account info in some website!
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so if someone were to create something idiots could (actually) use then it would be (for them) as thought only it existed. Apple often does this and practically claims competing technology doesn't even exist.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so for their purposes, it might as well not exist. For example, for the purposes of most people in the world, bitcoin doesn't actually exist (theyu can't buy it at a western union currency exchange, or know how to install software for it.)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I've always heard that if you make things for idiots, you will always have a huge market, since most people don't use most technologies.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, link to "see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots." ?? This is about the opposite of what I've always heard.
ninjashogun: benderp, sorry!! I was very interested in your response, just a bit delayed. I'm doing a few different things.
benderp: with the bells
benderp: asciilifeform: link the goats again!
ThickAsThieves: idiots also suck all the joy out of a task
asciilifeform: fundamentally different problems. ones which only the folks with the cattle prods are properly equipped to handle.
moiety: remember the alfa concept they just produced one of for the boss
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots.
moiety: bahaha and *theres* the connection!
ThickAsThieves: i always thought car design moved much too slowly
thestringpuller: asciilifeform do you believe there is a hardware hole in most mobile devices?
moiety: lol "inspired by a turtles skeleton" -- i have *always* thought of beautiful cars when viewing turtles
benderp: ninjashogun: if you can't be bothered to respond to private conversations that you start, I don't see why I should arse myself to respond to your PMs.
ThickAsThieves: old school art deco did offer many intricate work too yknow
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. I'm not saying you'd need to pursue it. Just like I'm not saying you should build a shiny gui on a Unix utility and sell it to mac users for $49.
ThickAsThieves: in the vulva
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: this is catastrophically misguided.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was just thinking how mircea's current insights would imply that that is what you could actually sell to dumb users for a huge markup (e.g. $199), since they know what a leather wallet is and know that bitcoins are money. and that's it.
ThickAsThieves: i dunno how the fuck they can that a car
moiety: thanks ThickAsThieves
ozbot: The Germans Have Figured Out How to 3-D Print Cars | Autopia | Wired.com
ThickAsThieves: look at the german car thing in the news today
ThickAsThieves: well theyll get bigger
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i might theoretically, at some point, make something that fits this description, but the current product has nothing to do with bitcoin or wallets
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay. I was talking about that USB thing that escrows your private key. I know you only said it was about private keys - but most users don't know what that is.
moiety: ThickAsThieves: i think you might be right but i feel only at a trinket level?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, wouldn't your embedded device be used at some point as an offline wallet that you can connect?