74800+ entries in 0.021s
mircea_popescu: whether server A im talking to i'm talking so it adds 2 and 2 for me, or gives me a new friend, or shoots a missile, is not a part of design consideration.
mircea_popescu: but yes -- the standard here is that at no point will you know (or care!) whether box A is box A or box E.
mircea_popescu: the sad truth is that everyone is subject to key compromise at any time.
mircea_popescu: "has no internet connection, and no rng. can still use ?"
mircea_popescu: the solution is that some "people" will accept noobs and some won't. in practice, everyone will run multiple interfaces and thassat.
mircea_popescu: new guy walks in. how is he distinguishable from usg.pinoy ?
mircea_popescu: but -- the fact that A happens to already have a connection to B and therefore B can S for him does not imply or require either A or B be not behind a nat.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: any C could at any point be a S or not be a S (and because of encryption observer can't even tell which it is)
mircea_popescu: this is not what i see. what i see is that you have a list of C1..n machines ; some of which are included arbitrarily in a list of S1...j and some of which are not.
mircea_popescu: and yes the fact that the list of S must be at least a dozen different lists and each a grosse long is why we can't do this arbitrarily early.
mircea_popescu: back to it -- once A knows what ip B is at and B knows what ip A is at, they can exchange crafter packets to the point of parlaying it into an established connection. in order to find these, they both rely on their peers. if they have no peers, they don't properly speaking exist, and an angel from above in the shape of a tmsr lord will have to bless them with the spark of life.
mircea_popescu: next we're gonna what, come up with flip flops for computers ?
mircea_popescu: also gives the state of the art re mate finding in the greater uslandia. and it's the lulz of all time.
mircea_popescu: this is neither a solution nor a problem nor something fit for discussion.
mircea_popescu: amusingly i also put it in the log earlioer today. so what of it ?
mircea_popescu: a better world for computers where the rapist-racism of needing someone to introduce you has been resolved is truly not in any way different than the same re people.
mircea_popescu: there's no other way socialisation works than by introduction. this is not a problem. you are welcome to approach it, but you will be wasting your time.
mircea_popescu: yet, notwithstanding sina's concerns, we did manage to bootstrap trust out of nothing.
mircea_popescu: and, to stick to fundamentals : your whole argument "proves" that #trilema could not exist.
mircea_popescu: if i put up a box my S list will look nothing like yours.
mircea_popescu: what creates massive stars in practice is that the geeks doing this have no peers.
mircea_popescu: trb has problems resulting from being written by monkeys.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is only a problem in the sense of "i have decided to not work today so i can't"
mircea_popescu: ". A aiming to connect to B or vice-versa for any reason is accomplished through : A asks C for an ip for B. C provides A with ip for B and B with notification of A's request (at the least, its ip)." << A sends C a request. C sends A an ip for B and B an ip for A. both B and A start broadcasting at each other fixed packets until the conn is established.
mircea_popescu: and will discover peers and act as a peer beacon for others and so on.
mircea_popescu: as long as at least one of them actually works, the box is now connected. and will stay connected.
mircea_popescu: you put, on the box you own, whatever list of your peers as you deem fit.
mircea_popescu: you can put whatever you want in that list, and should put plenty of crap.
mircea_popescu: it can be solved, by peers, as above. as long as some kind of net exists. any kind.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not at all. strictly like as you see all around today.
mircea_popescu: again -- stop baking empire into your work. whether positively or negatively.
mircea_popescu: remember when amd would never have dared stopping contributing to coreboot because "public opinion" ?
mircea_popescu: "oh, the soviets could never x because market". da fuck do the soviets care.
mircea_popescu: the whole "will never as long as www" bullshit is just a larger cycle pwnat delusion.
mircea_popescu: nonsense. "the eternal hole" is worse delusion than proper fuckoff.
mircea_popescu: necessarily. if you grant nat implemented correctly, your problem is exactly that of the british girl on the deserted island. "so how was the sex ?" "i dunno, no star topoloigies!!!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "actual solution" will be exploiting hole in nat which depends on nat staying stupid in that specific way, which pwnat experience shows is worse than nothing.
mircea_popescu: there's temporary Sn. this is quite literally just how life is.
mircea_popescu: "i have boxes that don't respond to unknowns and no way to make unknowns known can has solution ?" alfian style problem.
mircea_popescu: you keep wanting the solution expressed in different terminology and upon delivery promptly proceed to change the terminology.
mircea_popescu: i dun follow what the problem's supposed to be with the above scheme.
mircea_popescu: a box you own can connect to the network through the usual process : asks all your peers for peers to connect to.
mircea_popescu: anyway -- the way to collect is that you don't have to pay for a S coming up. just like the car using less gasoline -- you do collect.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform will get reinstalled every ip change i guess.
mircea_popescu: this is ALSO good : breask the ip-box bijectivity, as was intention all along transparently throughout spec docs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the correct approach to that problem is for all boxes which can not obtain leased ips but only dynamic ips to own two internet connections.\
mircea_popescu: this is not a problem, but a good thing : provides monetary incentive to maintain node connections
mircea_popescu: should any Nq become isolated, it will require a S to be reintroduced.
mircea_popescu: you have nodes N1...Nn all behind a nat. Server S popus up and connects them in pairs such that no Ni is without at least one peer. Server S dies. The whole N1..Nn remains connected forever, notwithstanding how any NjNk connections may die.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: ie, D then asks B, "what about A ?" and B provides ip and notification to A.
mircea_popescu: ie, problem reduced to bootstrapping, significantly lower class.
mircea_popescu: B can now become C for D ; and A can now become C for Z.
mircea_popescu: suppose you have nodes A, B behind a nat. suppose A and B run gossipd, and have been introduced to C. A aiming to connect to B or vice-versa for any reason is accomplished through : A asks C for an ip for B. C provides A with ip for B and B with notification of A's request (at the least, its ip).