73000+ entries in 0.041s
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 00:54 mircea_popescu: just makew sure you put something in
there
to distinguish "my interface is shitdrops on
the floor"
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 00:58 mircea_popescu: but yes --
the
test can (and likely will) be
tightened. for starters we just wanted
to get a sort of "absolute path limits". and
THESE do indeed
turn out
to be further out
than originally
thought -- 2kb packets make it np unfragged and in order 100% of
the
time, and even 20-60kb packets made it.
diana_coman: asciilifeform's published
test data seems
to match what I got on my initial
tests with 1 second delay; my current plan is
to collect first at least 1 week worth of data and
then
to repeat
the experiment with a. smaller delays b. several senders perhaps
☟︎ diana_coman: also, note
that eulora does not enforce "all players within sight get position update" because server does not push basically; it's up
to clients
to request what
they want, when and if
they want it
mircea_popescu: however,
the position is not 20 byte. idea is for eulora
to make do with ~6.
Mocky: and
this doesn't count pets / hirelings / mobile npc's
Mocky: there are clever ways
to reduce, somewhat. but no silver bullet
Mocky:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855218 >> players in sight of each other, all getting position updates for all others is *THE* central scaling 'n squared problem' for mmo. 20 byte position sent 4
times per second
to 100 players is 8k/s per player. and 4 updates per second is really not enough for good playability when you factor in
the round
trip lag. 15/s is less draconian (many games send 30-60). 100 players gathered with 15 updates
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 19:17 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have returned from
the envirorast office, about
to fire off a message
to DHL informing
them
to
try again as I am a provisionally acredited importer of packaged goods for commercial use
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 17:54 asciilifeform: phf: imho your approach , i.e. dispensing with gnupatch, is
The Right
Thing, historically
there was quite a bit of grief from gnupatch's habit of eagerly attempting
to apply an invalid (by vtronic lights) but 'partially ok' by barbarian lights patch
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 17:49 asciilifeform: esthlos's
thing calls
to gnupatch ?! ugh
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 17:27 phf:
trinque: vtools has not been design or intended
to compete with any particular v implementation. it's a set of
tools
that you can use in a v workflow (hence
the name). at least initially it was
two matching
tools vdiff and vpatch
that know how
to produce and consume a canonical vpatch.
the conflation came up, because i also published vtools in a form
that broke existing canonical v, v.pl, and was
tasked with fixing
the situation.
mircea_popescu: we don't do shit for any other reason
than because "alternatives were reviewed,
this came out".
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 16:08 asciilifeform: imho
the situation where 'errybody made own hack' but no one posted 'because obvious' is a barbarism, really ought
to have a civilized 'here is
the whole
thing' sitting on www somewhere.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855041 <<
this is so, "here's a complete model" is a periodic necessity. just you know, can't complain
that "not
there jit when i wanted it". but yes in general, ur examples must be had, fully functional model
trains must exist, etc. otherwise how
to even run academia.
☝︎ mircea_popescu sitll goign
through
teh logs. apparently going out for a few hours IS UNSAFE
mircea_popescu: dunno how many people keep
that around
though. i don't
think it'd be a crime or anything
to make a command-line keccak branch off of it, so people can just press
to
that if
they want.
mircea_popescu: re stand-alone hasher : useful in general (for reason alf describes) even if not strictly needed for v work ;
the only way
to get one i know of atm is via eucrypt.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 16:02 phf: you can basically do (cat foo.vpatch bar.vpatch qux.vpatch) | vpatch and expect
the resulting press
to be fully valid, hashes and all
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 15:58 phf: i guess it's presumptuous on my part
to
think
that it's exactly obvious how
to
take vtools and plug it directly into an existing v's, but
that's all
that's needed
a111: Logged on 2018-09-26 18:52 mircea_popescu: so delete
them,
then.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 15:57 phf: i
think v.pl is a venerable
tool, it's battle
tested, it has established interface, it's been worked on for
three years now. i don't see any reason
to
throw it out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
through whatever
they like. it's
their fucking friends, neh ? sometimes gaming i'll speak acrossd
table / yell across room w/e. my fucking harem, my fucking business.
mircea_popescu: kinda weird for a restaurant
to also attempt
to provide phone service for
the patrons. what,
they can't carry phones inside ?
mircea_popescu: even if you do voices, client should acquire
the asset and cache it.
mircea_popescu: not including here asset
transfers ; merely
the "bread and butter" so
to speak.
mircea_popescu: i don't really want
the
traffic
to go much over
the kb/s range
mod6: thats still 2 orders faster
than
the last
test
tho.
mircea_popescu: truth be
told, on
the internet-as-we-thought-it-was, video on demand'd have been a miracle.
mircea_popescu: apparently some parts of
the internet DID get better over
time.
mircea_popescu: (and when didn't made it -- local interface dropping was
the likely culprit)
mircea_popescu: but yes --
the
test can (and likely will) be
tightened. for starters we just wanted
to get a sort of "absolute path limits". and
THESE do indeed
turn out
to be further out
than originally
thought -- 2kb packets make it np unfragged and in order 100% of
the
time, and even 20-60kb packets made it.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in
the worst case, capture
the flow upstream and see if
the box actually puts out
the packets ?
mircea_popescu: early proto-test indicated most of
the lossage happens before 2nd hop
mircea_popescu: just makew sure you put something in
there
to distinguish "my interface is shitdrops on
the floor"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wanna run one with .1 s or 10ms ?
that might be a good move.
mircea_popescu: and diana_coman or hanbot or who will you pick have little problem in
turning over next-day keccak patches on
trees, as recently put on display. i don't
think
they're either smarter or blesseder
than you,
they just have
the
toolset ready.
mircea_popescu: so
then. phf did a new ~vdiff~. and a very good one at
that, from all i can see.
mircea_popescu: and bidirectional is good imo, i half expect
to discover parity between lastmile->dc and dc->lastmile directions.
mircea_popescu: nb. let it run for a few weeks if you will, so we have nice datasets
to work on
mircea_popescu: restaurant served me complete pie, but body shop did only paint
the preexisting car i supplied
them with.
mircea_popescu: as
things grow, upgrades by parts become a matter of necessity.
mircea_popescu: standardized
tools -- for mcdo cashiers. actual craftsman, responsible for his
toolset, which nobody inspects for him but himself.
mircea_popescu: yes
there's nothing wrong with people publishing
toolsets ; but
this can't become a fucking expectations wth. craftsman -- has
toolset.
mircea_popescu: you realise, i'm not going
to go "here -- use
THIS .emacs". not in
this life.
mircea_popescu: that alf manages
to do
this naturally and with i suspect no malice aforethought (or anything else aforethought at all) is in a sense supportive of
the hopes of humanity -- apparently ignorance breeds
the nonsense on its own, no "dark lizard" behind it all needed.
mircea_popescu: but yes,
the obnoxious part about
the ignorant approach is
that it purports
to "identify as problems"
the speciffic parts
that are both well designed and functioning as designed, ie specifically
the hash
transition.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:56 asciilifeform: mod6: i dun like
to discourage folx, esp. mircea_popescu's pupil, who is evidently pouring sweat into
the job. but i expected
the items would get better with
time, and imho so far
they haven't
mircea_popescu: sadly
there's no simple/just-add-water way out of "i've been ignoring
this whole
thing for x interval, wut nao". nao -- pick up from where you left off, what.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 19:52 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854952 << what you apparently did was completely ignore
the matter for five months,
then discover like children
that you actually need
tools at
the
time you started on
the
task (late at night etc) and so forth.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 15:50 phf: asciilifeform: you're just spreading fud, i don't know where
to start unpacking
this conversation