log☇︎
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snsabot: Logged on 2019-05-18 02:05:52 mp_en_viaje: because it takes a certain dose of insanity to think the equation you solved was the equation that was being presented. you recall that episone in married with children when christina applegate was saving cereal box K's to buy car ?
phf: asciilifeform: well i gave you timeframe, it's easy for me to provide a few hints right now, significantly harder to unwrap a ball of yarn
asciilifeform: i genesised 5000ln+ of fucking asm!! last month. and scarcely expect that anyone will read, aside maybe from mp_en_viaje's gurlz as a punishment detail. but it has to be done.
phf: also znc is incidental, i have a trivial flask (or maybe "bottle") server that parses znc logs and gives the result out in the log-format
phf: just one, this provided enough redundancy, but also allowed for a trivial merge algorithm. i suspect with multiple znc you'll have to work harder to discover consensus
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 13:14:01 asciilifeform: this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928700 << in general this hasn't happened to a111 (though i don't have full netsplit coverage, since that requires a bot per all the possible servers we are connected to), i've described the solution in logs, though i can't find it now. when a111 falls over, on reconnect it asks the znc machine to give it all the messages since the timestamp of last known message (+3 hours to
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's logger intended moar as ice breaker ship, to make the subj navigable, than final solution. and 'final' -- as already detailed by mp_en_viaje -- would be a constellation of heterogeneous items that know how to speak a common sync, operated by diff people.
asciilifeform: unlike the gurlz, i dun need particularly anyone to 'feel for', but would like something resembling a sustainable algo.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: no, i get. but i dun have a squad of people who will immediately report ' asciilifeform broke leg, is in ditch ' . have 1, who is trained to report -- if doesn't simultaneously break leg/neck with asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: i admit, i half-expected mp_en_viaje to pick up his skepter and declare 'this here is only working logger atm, and the breaking turd is a uniturd from bot, let errybody else lose the 6lines'
mp_en_viaje: i expect large portions of lobbesbot actually salvageable ; spyked was making a lisp one too iirc.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not married to a particular set of junkyard wrecks out of what people to make loggers. but the solution has to be reasonably automatic, or e.g. asciilifeform for the rest of his days will be doing nuffin but munging db, and it ~still~ won't be satisfactorily correct
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/ << Trilema -- What is a blog ? Complete spec inside!
mp_en_viaje: this is kinda-sorta where my "add logger to mp-wp pages" thing goes towards. conceivably one could have a reconcillation process as part of one's blog
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, then we be sad. what can we do ? http://trilema.com/2015/a-lunatic-with-a-bloodied-axe-could-be-ringing-at-your-door/ !!!
mp_en_viaje: in my mind, the process works through -- everyone, mp included, has to make ~a judgement~, their own judgement, at any given point, re the logs.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to make argument 'eh i have drinking to do , rather than sync logs'. but if it takes fleanode 100msec to make a split, and asciilifeform -- 5min to fix it, this is not tenable to maintain promise of 'ultimate log'
mp_en_viaje: the costs to defend / benefits to attack mount exponentially, it is not a stable design.
mp_en_viaje: i do not believe such a thing as ~a~ cannonical copy may exist.
mp_en_viaje: and in month 4 or so of this traveling, where in other words mp was relying on other people to establish for him what is log, mp threw up because could not obtain a copy he could trust to scream at mod6 on good basis rather than on weak basis.
asciilifeform: erry single incident of 'fleanode weather' can create , within <1sec, a split that -- with hands -- will take 10min (of practiced hand) to fix
asciilifeform: fleanode chan is not 'solid' object, it is a fecal object. in light of not only falling bots, but e.g. netsplits
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re the log indices, there's a deeper q, that i'd like to lay out and ask mp_en_viaje to actually take halfhr+ to think about, with brain in full throttle, before answering, cuz it is very easy to spec this in such a way that asciilifeform's (or anyone's) pair of hands will not in fact be long enuff or fast enuff to handle
mp_en_viaje: if i really manage to make the damn thing fit in a deck fo cards ima celebrate.
mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/
mp_en_viaje: a) put missing lines in b) bump all references accordingly.
asciilifeform: this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode
snsabot: Logged on 2016-06-19 23:21:04 mircea_popescu: I myself used a Hole Hawg to drill many holes through studs, which it did as a blender chops cabbage. I also used it to cut a few six-inch-diameter holes through an old lath-and-plaster ceiling. I chucked in a new hole saw, went up to the second story, reached down between the newly installed floor joists, and began to cut through the first-floor ceiling below. Where my homeowner's drill had labored and whined
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 12:29:47 mp_en_viaje: billymg, im actually working on a universal blog spec. it atm looks like
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928640 << awesome! even if implementation of tests change billymg would find this a useful map
asciilifeform: former -- 'success', a la 'lamp. latter -- 'failure', i guess
asciilifeform: there was a 1990s piece re how chumps walk into ameri-'hardware store' and buy 'contractor-grade!111' plasti-tools that fall apart after 5 uses
asciilifeform: i recall a mp_en_viaje piece where explained which parts of vacuum cleaner are best for this
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 12:08:00 asciilifeform: and in short order you get the lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'
asciilifeform: imho a++ likbez of subj.
asciilifeform: a
mp_en_viaje: billymg, im actually working on a universal blog spec. it atm looks like
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:18:36 mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then they fucked it all up.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928499 << this also interesting in light of now-~forgotten 1990s wrecks. at one time there was a product called 'be' (and in its early yrs came with own machine, designed from 0, 'bebox') and was , to many folx, 'definitive machine for video', unlike unixlikes or microshit, the kernel was built for realtime response above-all .
asciilifeform: here's another somewhat obscure example of the progression. recall in 1990s there were 9000 makers of pocket comps ? the kind could pull out on train and type into. all but 1 such, ended up in thralldom to microshit, and packaged (in rom!) winblowz 'ce', abominable liquishit, but somehow '100% market dominant'. the 1 holdout was a brit outfit, 'psion' . i have 1 here in torture room, it has better responsiveness than most pc ! the re
asciilifeform: and in short order you get the lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'
asciilifeform: so, to return to thrd, historically when tree grows through pavement 'successfully', a la lamp, the naggumocalypse is not far, eventually around tree is built 'city park', with 'rules & regulations', 9000 idlers & hobos with imagined 'rights' etc
asciilifeform: asciilifeform was drawn into bitcoin (specifically as portrayed by mp_en_viaje ; was never in the tardstalk forum , and http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939 until encountered mp_en_viaje ) specifically because appeared, to asciilifeform , to be the 1st known instance of a successful defense against the 1-5 rot progression .
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje had a piece ( where is it, grr ) where '1) actual people make a thing 2) herd finds it 3) herd 'also wants' 4) herd 'regulates', 'manages' 5) actual-people pack it ...' etc
mp_en_viaje: i dunno about wwwtards! redditards i can see, but in the period between 93 and say digg days as the end, up to about 2010, having a website was rather a promise of sanity.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if i find a piece by actual human being on subj, will post.
asciilifeform: to pile on the upstack thrd tho : lamp, as i see it, was linux's great ~calamity~. w/out rise of www, linux (or, moar likely, the bsd's) would have stayed small, obscure ( like many of the other systems asciilifeform worked with , that actually work and mp_en_viaje never heard of, or heard of strictly in 'facebookized' variants ) but... working. i.e. remained a green shoot in the pavement, for however long .
asciilifeform: but imho worth a try
mp_en_viaje: yeah, but probably correct approach is to have client not split such a line wrongly.
asciilifeform: i see the wwwism fad as tumour mass, rather than giraffe. yes from 'who's got the most cells, haha' tumour in yer chest the size of basketball is a 'success' .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:18:36 mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then they fucked it all up.
mp_en_viaje: a yes
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:21:21 mp_en_viaje: so, not to put too fine a point on it : i really don't give so much of a shit what peculiar buttdildos you use in your own special universe to make yourself feel "different from the rest", "poetic", "not understood" and whatever other such highschooler personal investments. the fact of the matter is, linux exists for and through and by and because apache, mysql, and the glue gluing these together : php. that's wha
mp_en_viaje: this is also true, as a broad trend. it is unfortunate but true that the inept king prefers crossbowmen over archers, because archers take lifetime to train and dedication from puberty to craft, whereas crossbow can be operated by... outsourced labour. it takes a certain sort of short-sightedness to not notice the implicit band-of-brothers vs your own nobles cutting down your own mercs
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:16:47 mp_en_viaje: the 1990s "tech support" kiddo (perhaps best typified by thorne, who is a faggoty "designer" ; though i'm aware everyone'd rather it be "BOFH" or whatever similar self-wank) running grep over everyone-workking-at-the-videostore's hoemdirs never had any say or pulled any weight. toxicfact or haetfact or wha
mp_en_viaje: so the idea is, somehow a better use for linux will be found ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:47:31 mp_en_viaje: i get it, the concept grates, "but mp, i could design so much better systems" no you couldn't. the linux thing was successful ~coincidentally~. a space of possibilities was explored, and this is what STUCK. you can't design a better pile of nonsense for the exact reason you can't design a better elephant trunk : it wasn't fucking designed! it's what stuck!
asciilifeform: and from certain pov (e.g. scrap dealer's, who only melts it down) all the rusty carcasses in junkyard are ~exactlysame. but from pov of the folx who go in when mp_en_viaje asks 'build a tank by mid august' -- not quite same.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 01:00:50 asciilifeform: phf's bot, incidentally, ate. now would be a notbad time for the fella to come the hell out of his coma and say how.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-21 14:44 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546322 << this behavior has nothing to do with znc (unless you explicitly configured znc to recode your messages), it has to do with the fact that irc is encoding agnostic. used to be you had koi8-r only channels, or latin-1 only channels etc. now utf-8 is the "standard" but from back in those days you have a peculiar hack surviging in a lot of clients. everyone's expected to be able to read latin-1,
mp_en_viaje: ant to continue : https://internet.com/ ; much like IAC, QuinnStreet is a "S&P 600 Component", you know, with supposed revenue out of those shit "properties" and assorted other self-imagined bullshit. believe.
mp_en_viaje: it's not there because it was designed ; it's there because it was selected, which is a different thing. selection produces things that work, definitionally, that's what it is. not well or correctly or properly but AT ALL.
mp_en_viaje: yes, i'm aware, if you made the giraffe it wouldn't have the laryngeal branch of the vagus go a mile around the heart. whopee for you, but do you know what ? galen was fucking aware this is happening in people too! it's called ~recurrent~ because it goes away and comes back, this is the case in all fucking mammals, equally "for no reason".
mp_en_viaje: i get it, the concept grates, "but mp, i could design so much better systems" no you couldn't. the linux thing was successful ~coincidentally~. a space of possibilities was explored, and this is what STUCK. you can't design a better pile of nonsense for the exact reason you can't design a better elephant trunk : it wasn't fucking designed! it's what stuck!
mp_en_viaje: yet ~the thing that runs python~ is already apache. definitionally. it's a broken half-way implementation of apache, but this doesn't make it either lighter or better or faster or anything. doing half the job ain't being "agile", it's being costly in a hidden manner : someone somewhere downstream will have to implement what you left out at the proper level, and it'll be more expensive then.
mp_en_viaje: then they're going to implement apache in php, because totally, this ~can~ be done. then they're going to have a lightweight apache to run their php and you're welcome to a) attempt to start three "servers" of this nonsense and b) wonder about the impedance mismatches.
mp_en_viaje: yes, guido von fucktard is going to "invent" a "language to make programming easy for everyone", hurr. it's exactly as needed as a tin-foil-covered-kitchen-knife makes a great birthday present. yes, a bright 5yo / retarded 12yo might give you that for your birthday ; you may even briefly interact with it. it's still not a fucking thing --
mp_en_viaje: python/perl/whatever are not "better php". they might be more comfortable php, which is exactly like "i feel weird buying condoms otc, i really need a brown paper bag". fine, whatever works for you. don't tell me though stories about "the really cool store with the really better condoms". they're not better just because the clerk awkwardness-matches you and the SAME EXACT fmcg offering is proffered in an extra brown paper wrapper.
mp_en_viaje: i don't give a shit what you tell the orcs back home, or your crying inner 6yo at night or anything else -- buy the ticket, take the ride.
mp_en_viaje: when you get a job with microsoft, you ~also~ buy the 90yo "representative" from iowa being "senior" just as you buy the add treatment for your kids and the wood frame house in vinyl siding and "black culture" and everything else.
mp_en_viaje: so, not to put too fine a point on it : i really don't give so much of a shit what peculiar buttdildos you use in your own special universe to make yourself feel "different from the rest", "poetic", "not understood" and whatever other such highschooler personal investments. the fact of the matter is, linux exists for and through and by and because apache, mysql, and the glue gluing these together : php. that's what it is, that's what it's for, th
mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then they fucked it all up.
mp_en_viaje: the 1990s "tech support" kiddo (perhaps best typified by thorne, who is a faggoty "designer" ; though i'm aware everyone'd rather it be "BOFH" or whatever similar self-wank) running grep over everyone-workking-at-the-videostore's hoemdirs never had any say or pulled any weight. toxicfact or haetfact or whatever, fact stays fact.
mp_en_viaje: Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing.
mp_en_viaje: ill say ftr what while ~decade ago this was actually standard deployment, i've not been bothered to have it for a long time now
mp_en_viaje: ad, la cual cosa motiva a la competencia entre las empresas de este sector por la captación de clientela, intentando diferenciarse ofreciendo alternativas, precios o agregados." rank imbeciles are simply denoting FAST MOVING Consumer Goods.
mp_en_viaje: you have a much better chance of spending your night drinking with washington equivalent, local psycho dolls, through walking the street of wash dc randomly talking to people,
mp_en_viaje: we're seriously talking some heavy duty 1e12 orders of dampening magnitude here, how to take a trillion and make a tenth of a cent
mp_en_viaje: you're proposing to re-do all that to shave a second offa some webapp you misconfigured somewhere ? gimme a break, put 1/1000000 that much time into talking to internet randos about pizarro, get 1000000x the benefits.
mp_en_viaje: symbolics never in ~its entire life~... actually fucking strike that. all of mit cs lab, ALL OF IT, from csail onwards, never had a tenth of the fucking engineering man-hours that went into turning a patchy server into apache.
mp_en_viaje: it's roughly your personal implementation of "getting a sepsis"
mp_en_viaje: in this context, a working equivalent to apache's workers.
mp_en_viaje: "box is not doing, routerallah is doing", how shall i put this. there's no way to prevent a stampede as the guy being stampeded, it should be self-obvious
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 13:55:23 asciilifeform: i'm beginning to suspect that nginx, apache, etc. are intrinsically dead weight, when sat in front of a programmatic html shitter
mp_en_viaje: The characters 128-159 are not used in ISO 8859-1 and Unicode, the character sets of HTML. MS-Windows uses a superset of ANSI/ISO 8859-1, known to experts as "Code Page 1252 (CP1252)", a Microsoft-specific character set with additional characters in the 128-159 range (also known as the "C1" range).
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, right, they're going to "alt-pay", which is a speshul argentina thing, and it totally isn't not-pay, it's pay. because they say, and if they say then fucking totally.
a111: Logged on 2019-08-14 02:31 lobbesbot: Logged on 2015-08-26 20:04:33: <mircea_popescu> "Or in my case, re-write a cooking book. So ladies and gentlorans, I give you Foxy’s Euloran Cookbook V1.1,"
asciilifeform: phf's bot, incidentally, ate. now would be a notbad time for the fella to come the hell out of his coma and say how. ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( is there a standard 'this is a dud orcogram' glyph ?? )
asciilifeform: if i don't find a mechanical method of somehow 'dwim'ing out the intended orcograms, i'ma have the bot replace'em with hammer-an'-sickle . unless someone has better idea.
asciilifeform: i.e. we have a http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928340
lobbesbot: Logged on 2015-08-26 20:04:33: <mircea_popescu> "Or in my case, re-write a cooking book. So ladies and gentlorans, I give you Foxy’s Euloran Cookbook V1.1," ☟︎
lobbes: would be a good discovery in any case. at this point I just wanna know why/what it is specifically
lobbes: seems to be a saner method
lobbes: lemme see if I can get a good example
lobbes: may be a better way to check bitrot, but I am pretty novice at this stuff
asciilifeform: lobbes: you prolly have a 7bit console
asciilifeform: lobbes: a++ . i'ma try it in coming days ( need #a , #p eaten )
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928256 << it is inconclusive if the eggogs are a result of the znc2tmsr converter, or the znc logs themselves. Now that I have your logotron pressed onto my cuntoo workstation, I aim to get some irssi #e logs and run them through diana_coman's irssi2tmsr converter, and then snarf that into your logotron to see if I also get barf.