log☇︎
71800+ entries in 0.509s
asciilifeform: if he has half a brain -- knows which k.
mircea_popescu: there's a very directly computable homomorphism, the item being you know, the algebraic ring.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-30 17:29 asciilifeform: davout: 'ring signatures' are not the promised 'invisibility cloak', but more of a smoke grenade.
asciilifeform: the good noose : i don't know a proof that you ~can't~ do this...
mircea_popescu: for the needs of this contortion, K3, K4, K9, K11 is a subgroup of K3, K4, K7, K9
mircea_popescu: ie, if K3 owns input I5, and if K3 signs I5, then it can be verified that the ring composed of K3, K4, K7, K9 a) signed I5, and b) owned I5 to sign it ; but it can't be verified that any subgroup didn't own I5.
mircea_popescu: Let there be private keys K1...Kn. Let there be uxto associated with these, I1..Im so that any one I is associated with one and only one K. let there be a function S, so that the verification function V(Kx, S(Iy)) is always false, or uncomputable, or whatever whereas V(K1..Kn, S(Iy)) is always true if and only if the K Iy is associated to signed it.
shinohai: To be fair, trilema is a big place.
asciilifeform: metoo, i was quite convinced that i lost a set of l0gz to bitrot
asciilifeform: maybe it was a pm convo
a111: Logged on 2016-02-06 16:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "- He says current block ciphers suck. Why? It doesn't really become clear from the discussion, which seems to be between two people who have heard a little bit about cryptography, and are trying to outdo each other in what little knowledge they have."
a111: Logged on 2016-02-05 01:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: played around with a few graph-theoretical approaches (in particular, max-clique problem)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> 19yo female, bb. that's not occuring. << Frequent occurence. Typical hardware store is full of 19 year old girls. Even in the lumber section. Pinterest is a thing apparently.
asciilifeform: i.e. no known algo for constructing a known problem--solution pair, using rng, of ~known~ average complexity.
mircea_popescu: because we were doing a review of possibly weaponizable known problems
a111: Logged on 2016-02-10 20:10 mircea_popescu: basically showing that a+b < c is true or false for a, b, c in R is a harder-than-NP problem.
asciilifeform: rsa doesn't pretend to a known complexity class tho.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the encryption scheme is like this : you generate a large graph with a hamiltonian cycle ; and a homomorphic graph.
mircea_popescu: and there was a scheme proposed whereby you either show the graphs or the relation ; op keeps challenging you ; each correct response increases the probabiling of truth by a factor of 2
mircea_popescu: either i must show you A, or else an A - A' relation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's this scheme whereby i create a graph, A and a homomorphism of it A'. you get ot see A', and may challenge me
mircea_popescu: (note that the decomposition needn't be Vs but will likely be a homomorphism, which POSSIBLY tyakes us straight to the hardest code known to man, the see-or-pick homomorphisms)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re-reading i am pretty much convinced that the requirement that a) signatures are produced pairwise nevertheless b) no pairwise verification function exists yet c) verification works on a group of them is batshit insanity. might as well ask for a 5 smaller than 4.
mircea_popescu: in FACT, the MORE sigs it uses in a ring, the more expensive the tx fee should be.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even supposing that you had this, if you actually needed all pubkeys in use to-date to verify a sig... it'll be painful
mircea_popescu: it's not enough with a plain S.
asciilifeform: now let's say we have this primitive. how do you make, out of it, a bitcoinlike
asciilifeform: by owner of a particular K strictly ?
asciilifeform: reviewing definition of ring sig : some process , whereby a signature S can be verified against keys K1, K2, ... KN , but without revealing which K had produced it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is an "idea" item not a technological object, so bear with me. a "ring signature" is a set of signatures with a) arbitrary cardinality n which has the property that b) while it can be verified the correct signature was offered it c) can't be established wich signature that is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know that's not a half bad idea
asciilifeform: (and he cannot even begin to work on a block until he knows Z and goes, fetches the required old tx ! no other miner has any incentive to help him do this.)
asciilifeform: ( Z from here-on in this gedankenexperiment is simply a value that determines which 3 -- if arity==3 -- old tx's get xor'd )
asciilifeform: suppose that tx's (recall, fixed width) position in the block, is also kept inside it. (e.g., tx # 100 will start with a 16bit field containing 0x0064 .)
asciilifeform: (either this, or simply replace 'nonce' in the equation, with a Z, that is equal to a hash over the ~transactions in the candidate block~, considerably more painful to waltz than the nonce )
asciilifeform: theoretically it also means that a tx, as time goes to infinity, will have infinite number of confirmations...
asciilifeform: this also entirely annihilates the possibility that a future enemy could monkey with contents of old blocks by finding hash collisions.
asciilifeform: there is no way to practically compute this value without having a copy of the blockchain. and it also ends up being luby-transformable into any one of the 3 old tx if you have the other 2. a kind of perpetual redundancy in the storage . ☟︎
asciilifeform: say every new block , to be valid, must contain a tx-sized slot (not covered by the nonce hash, but see below) that is computed as follows:
asciilifeform: the one that blooms for a bit, and dies.
asciilifeform: gotta find a finesse around it.
asciilifeform: (for instance, can demand that the miner find a Q that depends only on the parts of the block he cannot easily spin.)
asciilifeform: the cheat -- works. say your hash is a keccak that eats 512b blocks and produces 512b block.
mircea_popescu: you can't turn out your wife without being married to a whore, alfie.
mircea_popescu: yes, but moreover he'll just keep a few blocks and go for new nonces more often
asciilifeform: (and even then may turn up short, and have to go back for a new nonce)
mircea_popescu: why ? statistically, only to a fraction.
asciilifeform: for sake of argument, an F, such that a substring S of old block B makes F(nonce + B) = true.
asciilifeform: say the miner has to find a string in an old block , as part of mining, that fits a nonce-derived pattern.
mircea_popescu: half the reason i'm a shitty scientist : unlike the good ones, i get laid.
mircea_popescu: im gonna be off in a minute, fucking a new slut.
asciilifeform: didn't mircea_popescu find a new chocolate icecream shop! he oughta go there, eat some, come back with theorem.
asciilifeform: it needs a fundamental breakthrough, i suspect.
mircea_popescu: he who knows a secret key is a bitcoin user ; he who can say if ia signed transaction is valid or invalid is a bitcoin node ; he who can include a bitcoin transaction in a block is a bitcoin miner.
asciilifeform: O(N^2) verification of each incoming block, is even worse of a 'heat death' rate than of traditional bitcoin
asciilifeform: a goxhead ?
asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, mircea_popescu's algo had two major effects -- a) nodes have something valuable to sell b) all users are protocolically forced to retain all blocks
mircea_popescu: turn on your livingroom lights, pretend you're "running a node". exactly the same as "bang on keyboard, pretend you're writing"
asciilifeform: anyone can bang on a keyboard, some folx still get paid for it, others -- not.
mircea_popescu: understand, there's no way to at the same time give nodes marketable data AND make it so any redditard can just pop a node
asciilifeform: an inevitable visaification, The Guild of The Three Nodes, etc, at t-->inf, is a downer.
mircea_popescu: "mining a block takes a century" currently, it's no bug.
asciilifeform: but if standing up a brand-new node from scratch, with full verification (rather than dumb bitwise copy of existing node) takes a century...
pete_dushenski: speaking of learning, "Core exists as dictatorship and tyranny, upholding speech control, colluding to attack people with different views, has become the biggest threat of the long-term development of Bitcoin". ~bitmain miner guy (http://imgur.com/a/mhEEd)
omraphantom: i've looked into crypto recently i've been poking at this key stuff last couple days been learning a lot
pete_dushenski: omraphantom: i'm sure BingoBoingo can mentor you on carpentry but he's a couple states away in mo.
pete_dushenski: speaking of wences, he was still pretending to be a person as recently as july 2015 (http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/21/wences-whacked-xapo-zapped/) though can't say i've heard a meaningful peep from him or about him since aside from 'swiss kyc blahblah' nothing-on-a-stick.
omraphantom: they have a carpenter friend that was in my state i should meet apparently. i have a furniture blueprint just zero skills lol
omraphantom: i might start and end up pursuing a different degree
pete_dushenski: omraphantom: aha just getting rolling then. eh no rush to start eng school. a chunk of the guys here started but didn't even finish
pete_dushenski: probably a slightly older kinkster engineer than omraphantom
asciilifeform: (subj can wait for eons, really, it's a running log of crapolade timer)
mircea_popescu: they've been doing this whole "add logos to a printed page" thing for years now, it did 0.
asciilifeform: in yet-other western tech, https://archive.is/YcSdC << 'A mid-2016 security incident led to Apple purging its data centers of servers built by Supermicro, including returning recently purchased systems... ... A source familiar with the case at Apple told Ars that the compromised firmware affected servers in Apple's design lab, and not active Siri servers. The firmware, according to the source, was downloaded directly from Supermicro's
asciilifeform: actually this is a mega-snoar, looks like the makers used 100% western toolchain, even macrocells ☟︎
mircea_popescu: wow check it out, a quarter of the baikal chip's unused.
ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/#comment-121460 << bug in screw examples?
trinque: BingoBoingo: no response eh? I'll take a look
a111: Logged on 2017-03-01 01:27 mircea_popescu: and a very fine point in case here, from my own personal experience, is that xapo sad faggot, wences casares.
shinohai: tfw a camho faves the State of the Bitcoin Address tweet
mod6: shinohai: did you just burn through a ton of tools or what?
mircea_popescu: here's a pic of a nice black girl going over backwards to suck some cock. http://68.media.tumblr.com/ca595189778e5688d585a0dbdda6f5e3/tumblr_mn2n4qplLe1s5v9c7o1_1280.png
mircea_popescu: and i do mean this. nobody. tom cook isn't a fucking ceo, and if i replaced him with hillary's daughter there'd be no perceptible difference anywhere.
mircea_popescu: koch is not some coder, he's a sad fuck who lies about where he gets the code.
mircea_popescu: this is the entirety of everyone. stallman is not some sort of graybeard, he's a sad fuck who lied about what laptop setup he is using.
mircea_popescu: i had since opportunity to verify all of them, and they are all false. he's as much of a businessman as any random redditard, which specifically includes pirate, the silk road dork, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: and a very fine point in case here, from my own personal experience, is that xapo sad faggot, wences casares. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: this is the power of the lazy retard, someone somewhere once counted airplanes, they got the conclusion they're msotly full, and everyone's just mindlessly repeating it hence. as per http://trilema.com/2014/a-practical-exercise-for-people-who-cant-afford-airfare/
asciilifeform: not even 'severe', as in a schizophrenic's disconnect, but total, as in vegetable.
mircea_popescu: this turned into a fashion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not entirely sure that ability to distinguish wasn't more of a symptom of the cockroach working than anything else. "i can distinguish tarantula that bit me from tarantula that did not" is scarcely a quote after linnaeus.
mircea_popescu: if we took samantha cocks or whatever her name was and made her "a scientist" and took the supurating jeoffrey and made him "an engineer", they'd what ? go right to it without skipping a beat, that's what the "revolving door" even denotes.
mircea_popescu: there has to be some sort of definite difference in something, legs, mandibula, reproductive organs, something somewhere must allow classification in the proper sense to have a classification.
asciilifeform: but the greeks only had access to a few types of hurrdurr
mircea_popescu: the etymology of the very word is instructive. barbarism comes from the greek hurrdurr, and it literally as well as onomatopoetically denotes that ... they do not have a thing.
asciilifeform: if some women grew from girls, and others - from abused iguanas, we would probably keep around a word to refer to the 2 types
mircea_popescu: the young girl is not "an alternate woman" but a not-yet-woman.
asciilifeform: dunno that all of the barbarians had ~same~ barbarism, tho. and you need a word to refer to the differences.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the importance of cutting short the gypsy's pretense that he lives in an alt-country ; the grubfilth's pretense that he has an alt-hygiene, the neoprotestant's pretense that he has an alt-religion (discoivered it himself, he did!) and so on is key. a "vegan" is not someone who "has an alternative cookbook" but an imbecile who doesn't know how and what to eat. and so on.
mircea_popescu: perhaps "if you had to" you'd climb to infinity on the left rather than descend to infinity on the right. but inasmuch as it's a nonsensical construction, the counterfactual will stay nonfactual.