tmsr - Search: i

61400+ entries in 0.347s

asciilifeform: i imagine most stations would do something in between.

Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, damn. is the point to prove to B that A holds A's key at time t? i feel dumb

sina: anyway, I guess this is a seperate question for smarter people, I will just stick to trying to update my thingo to match mircea_popescu description above

Framedragger: if incoming message is *not signed*, then i understand - it sets a fixed horizon in terms of how much you can spam.

asciilifeform: sina: say i take random string R and encrypt to pubkeys p1, p2,...,pN

sina: <+asciilifeform> Framedragger: because not signing but decrypting << I am not sure I understand this. Why is it decrypting? Considering everyone has the plaintext from broadcasts

asciilifeform: i.e. a signed(S) could not have practically come into existence before you broadcast S, if the latter is a long rng turd

Framedragger: i assumed that packets were signed by A

asciilifeform: i.e. when was last time of contact

Framedragger: i'm in fact curious why in your model lighthouse has to be unpredictable, asciilifeform. maybe it's something very obvious

sina: time for some food and stuffs, I will spend time later trying to implement this

Framedragger: asciilifeform: i never got to comandeer one from irc channel, am sad

sina: this clarification is much appreciated, I do think I can rework what I've got to fit the above model

Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well you did say "whenever operator feels like it, keys get nuked." (i guess that's not the same, tho)

Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, then i confused things by way of saying that "challenge-response needs to be ditched in gossipd model". hmm. i did think that the two items are not conceptually separable anymore

sina: mircea_popescu: I assume A generated that reference, and it is storing it until B has responded?

mircea_popescu: sina i imagine it's a keyid of some kind. that makes a session ?

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly. nmot that i'm against further exploring the lighthouse thing, but gotta be separate item for nao.

sina: mircea_popescu: while I appreciate the validty of issues about sessions, challenge/response dictates there must be something akin to a session, even if that isn't the most precisely fitting term

Framedragger: (in fact maybe that's an important point as well: lighthouse shits at a fixed rate; there is a discrete amount of auth strings which can be used. i guess this is obvious, i'm slow)

Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i fucking can't reckon right now why output of lighthouse has to be unpredictable. damn it :D *if* all packets are signed with peer keys that receiving peer already has, timestamp with defined validity window would avoid replay... (http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119045)

a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:28 sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?

Framedragger: sina: right, re future, i didn't make sense there

sina: also I can't see how the model can be *completely* stateless, there will always be some kind of minimal session which is "hi, I'm A" followed by a response tailored to A

sina: I'm not sure I understand how you can craft packets in advance if they need to be signed

Framedragger: i guess he'd say "read the article [implying read the comments, too]"

sina: Framedragger: really appreciate your patience, I get the feeling asciilifeform would be shouting at me again by now

Framedragger: well i guess it's the same thing, kinda

Framedragger: i believe this relates to asciilifeform's "traditional challenge-response creates DoS vector". so with a lighthouse auth string, one more important point is that a particular auth string cannot be reused.

Framedragger: A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session

Framedragger: yes i think so, and note that there is a time window there re. how recent challenge string has to be, to avoid replay. i.e., those strings expire. and yes that's how you send a msg to B iirc

sina: if I'm operator of peer A and want to send a message to peer B, what do I do? pick one of my stored challenge strings, sign it, send it along with my message?

Framedragger: i may fall asleep but shoot

Framedragger: ("well ok, let me generate this one just for you, and this for just for you", vs. "i'll generate this many auth strings per time unit, and distribute them to this set of destinations (or "shit them out via radio"))

Framedragger: so there's no way to DoS peer B with "hi plox to send me an auth string, i'm totally legit non sybil node"

sina: well, the next line is literally "This variant is not, incidentally, intrinsically incompatible with Mircea Popescu's - conceivably he might choose to hand out auth challenges to all-comers, while I operate lighthouse; while retaining the other basic mechanics."

sina: I guess I'll wait for some clarification from mircea_popescu ? challenge/response is a session based concept even ignoring the older post

Framedragger: (i know it's a hella lot of comments under the newer article but iirc his "DoS magnet!!" points are addressed there)

Framedragger: (but then, the newer article clearly states "This is an up-to-date draft specification for gossipd", so i'm not too sure about that, either)

Framedragger: sina: to clarify (hopefully lol), that ^ is for all intents and purposes outdated. asciilifeform did say "original mp algo". that said, i'll agree if you say "you guys have a documentation problem omg"

asciilifeform: and speaking of which i'ma bbl.

Framedragger: i even raised a (nonsensical) "but-t-t time complexiti!" concern re this

Framedragger: in fact that's a question i asked in comments, sina

sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer? ☟︎

Framedragger: god it's like quoting talmud at this point :D (i mean the long comments etc)

Framedragger: in fact i'd imagine that gossipd should ideally allow for arbitrary end to end encryption, would be up to operator?

sina: asciilifeform: yesterday you mentioned 2 articles, but I had only seen one, if you recall URL can you link second one?

asciilifeform: i thought this was pretty clear from the article.

sina: Framedragger: thanks, exactly what I meant

sina: what I'm asking is, does that behaviour match the intent? OR

sina: mircea_popescu: patience appreciated while I attempt to rephrase question.

sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675078 << my, I seem to have trouble phrasing my questions correctly :( ☝︎

Framedragger: i mean, scriba was supposed to have an mp emulator chatbot, so i'll keep it in mind :)

mircea_popescu: i got a whole silo fulla these btw, if you need.

Framedragger: healthy perspective to have, i guess

shinohai: !~later tell mod6 New makefiles test went smooth ... If you aren't head-banging over Ada I have question regarding Vim setup when you have time.

asciilifeform: and moreover, the mircea_popescutronic answer to 'rsi', is that one that i end up using: 'type less, fool'

asciilifeform: but given what % of time i spend in front of screen and touching kbd, the idea of using lusertronic rubbish has ~0 appeal

phf: i have to say though, from ergonomic perspective i've realized a while ago that none of this particularly matters. it's all significantly offset by fitness regime or lack of

phf: my setup is so "modern" that i can't really worry about permanence

asciilifeform: i'd still like to resurrect the su-era gold standard, the magnetic reed switch kbd.

phf: yeah, i think we had a conversation about putting piano forte into the firmware. if you type it fff it'll automatically uppercase and add random !!! etc.

asciilifeform: i like the key mechanisms -- unlike 'ibm m', no membrane, no rubber anythings, no rivets.

phf: yeah, i got two, i'm yet to do anything with them. (and yes, mine are steel and correct version etc.)

asciilifeform: currently i use one of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard#/media/File:Model_F_corrosion.jpg and it took eons to sand, deburr, paint, rf paint inside, ultrasonically clean the moving parts, reassembly takes ~day...

asciilifeform: aha, i found 100% of post-1980s kbds to feel ~same, all like this.

phf: i've at some point went through a mechanical keyboard site and ordered 6 different boards with all the available switches from different manufacturers. while they look "retro", e.g. http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/modern_selectric_keycaps_50529.jpg they all universally felt cheap with light frame and unpleasant lateral travel

asciilifeform: i'd buy a several$k kbd if 0 plastic.

mod6: those maltron boards look nice. i didn't get one because it's nearly 2x as much as the kinesis.. and had no idea if i could even get used to the concave thing.

phf: it's because their own design, "maltron switches". sometimes it's an option on those "mechanical keyboard" sites, so i wouldn't be surprised if the switches are good

asciilifeform: i wonder what the switches are like

asciilifeform: and at some point i might even do it.

asciilifeform: ( if not -- why not?! for 2000 i can have own motherfucking kbd machined. out of steel. )

asciilifeform: hence why i consider a box without fat, easy-to-reach 'f's, ~unusable

phf: yeah i wonder, i looked into it 10+ years ago, and punted at the $2000 or whatever price tag

asciilifeform: phf: i saw maltron for first and last time in 1980s-era b00k on 'fun of computing' or sumthing

asciilifeform: mod6: i like 'f' keys.

mod6: they annoyme... but really all i use is the ESC key, which i've since replaced the windows key with a new normal esc key and remapped.

a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:12 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)

phf: oh i missed that

asciilifeform: phf: i posted one of these for 'p' recently

phf: in fact i think i'm going to rip out some of the messier linked lists etc. management parts and simply wire in shiva. obviously wouldn't want to use it in the field, but mostly as a thing in itself

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Oh I thought we were talking awesome 2-strokes dirtbikes and pitbikes.

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674678 << mine was written in cweb, i.e. the literate programming thing for c. i haven't finished it, but i got bogged on configuration management. ☝︎

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun think the battery existed then

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and this thing did not at all resemble ordinary bicycle or 'moped' -- was miniature copy of 'kawasaki ninja' i think << Pit bike. Where I grew up if my parents were cooler,tis likely a thing I could have played with

asciilifeform: i'd like to know where i can get a comp pedal that i can REST FUCKING FOOT on

phf: freestyle 2 lacks numpad, but has an extra two columns of keys on the right, sun style, which is unfortunately bound to a bunch of windows/mac functions (like cut/copy). i mostly figured out how to change what those keys send though..

asciilifeform: kinesis ? i had theirs

phf: i actually like advantage, but it encourages chording, which you hate. those rubber f-keys definitely don't help, but after a while that extra travel time to f-keys gets annoying anyway.

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675084 << apparently it's the wrong keyboard :o i used to use advantage back in the day, but now it's https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-mac/ ☝︎

asciilifeform: and this thing did not at all resemble ordinary bicycle or 'moped' -- was miniature copy of 'kawasaki ninja' i think

asciilifeform: i had nfi this existed.

asciilifeform: speaking of which, i saw, i shit thee not, a child-sized motorcycle

asciilifeform: ... or possibly not, i have nfi what 'parking' costs for such a beast

asciilifeform: also not long ago i was bored on a train and found myself reading the tech docs to the diesel in that thing ( apparently a very common model.) surprisingly ( to asciilifeform ) the 'water going into the tailpipe when motor not running' is still considered an open engineering problem...

asciilifeform: i wonder, how long these typically sit around and rust

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I thought that was more of a PCP thing

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have difficulty picturing the protagonists of $redditardmarket using 'at party'

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams << Typical cocaine use is gram after gram after gram after gram, I imagine mp or Tiger Woods level is sugar bowl or candy dish set out in advance