log☇︎
60400+ entries in 0.444s
asciilifeform: mod6: aha. i wanted to see how the bounds checks are done, and whether gcc4.9 takes any liberties with'em
asciilifeform: of gnat, i mean
asciilifeform: i've been reading, btw, the output
mod6: now if i could just my head out of my ass....
mod6: im just dumb. it seemed to be smarter than i am.
mod6: all i can say thus far is; stuff seems to be strict. my code may compile, but indeed blows up at runtime.
asciilifeform: quite possibly i'dve given up long ago if not for this repeated experience
asciilifeform: every time, to date, when i bashed head against wall and went 'WAI DOES IT DOOO THAT!1!!1' i ended up repenting
mod6: so recently, i've done some multi-d array programming in ada..
asciilifeform: ada is a thing for a reason, i found. hence this entire thread.
mircea_popescu: i see.
mircea_popescu: but can i overflow THE SLICE ?
mircea_popescu: what particular can i prove re the relation between an array slice and the index fixer variable ?
mircea_popescu: i am sitting here wondering if this is "getting rid" as in, rid or rid as in, hid.
mod6: i've read, so far seems ok -- i've got to wrap my mind around the second ("high loop") as I did before.
mircea_popescu: i didn't say practical, i was just going with proper
mircea_popescu: i realyl don't like this "and now we magic-variable the numbers". it's one step up from magic constant
asciilifeform: though i also found it at first difficult to understand why.
asciilifeform: incidentally, (imaginary) prize to the first d00d who understands why this had to be rewritten with the loops indexing from 0 .. L-1, rather than, e.g., for i in X'Range ... as formerly
asciilifeform: mod6: i was running with -g -O0 previously, lol
asciilifeform: ( alert reader will ask, what did i change ? answer : 1) comba 2) gcc -O2 (this keeps all bounds checks and dun do anything aggressive, just peepholes) )
asciilifeform: there is no 'gold standard' to which i could compare fg, etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, i recall.
mircea_popescu: i would very much like an exact bound, rather than an exact solution
mircea_popescu: they have the p k, 1 < 4 ** (2 - sqrt(k))* k**2 , which is useful, but i also want the p k, m
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had actually read this text, though pretty sure not in this paper. but i recall the 100,10 bounds etc
mircea_popescu: now i gotta read a pdf
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's another thing i would like : a graph of the relation of the m-r failure rate to the a) entropy quality and b) margin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i had also.
mircea_popescu: o it was ? i was murdering the logsearch
asciilifeform: i can think of other considerations, as in the thread with the exponents
mircea_popescu: not so. why i said do the math : cracking 4kb key the hard way exceeds the universe. this is a categorical argument, substantially different from "i could compute 2 bit key by enumeration on napkin"
asciilifeform: i ain't putting idiot magic numbers in. anywhere.
asciilifeform: i'm writing a proggy meant to be wholly devoid of 640isenoughforeverybody-isms
mircea_popescu: i don't want 8kb keys
mircea_popescu: yes, but i mean as the middle of distribution
BingoBoingo: Other critics on said "cultural milestone": "Rooney attacks that pie like a cake person, engineering such unusual fork scoops (she stabs the pie at least four times before each bite) that I started to wonder whether the actress had even ever seen a pie before. We all do weird things when dealing with grief, but I was tickled by the fact that Mara’s bizarre pie-eating method still managed to leave the crust mostly intact."
asciilifeform: aha, i can't think of any good reason to.
mircea_popescu: i also do not expect we will ever call anything outside of the "pussygraber" "yesmeansanal" etc antipantsuit set
mircea_popescu: i eagerlyexpect the imperial "fuckgoats" bowdlerization
mircea_popescu: funny how nobody from the "concerned" peanut gallery is there on the congress floor uninvited every day, "hey guise, remember that time when oyu decided to rechristian french fries ? what happened to that ??? I THINK THE USD IS WORTHLESS!!!"\
asciilifeform: at this rate i'ma end up keeping paper notebooks again.
phf: ... i quoted it from qntra apparently
a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 16:14 asciilifeform: i dun get the fixation with 'universal db language for all walks of life'
mircea_popescu: http notably gets this half-right : there's no such thing as an error message the server ever expects to see from a client, such as i dunno, "this page has porn on it, unacceptable, send me another version" or whatever.
mircea_popescu: i am ok with chunks of machine word size, ie, quantify data by n bits rather than by 1 bit.
mircea_popescu: phf i would be friendly to the notion of a machine word yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect you're entirely correct.
mircea_popescu: i don't care if it's a "gui" or a telex or whatever it may be.
mircea_popescu: and if asked for "bitcoin block", i do expect to be asked a number according to that exact type.
phf: i also doubt that's what we'll ultimately go to. wire/remote is tied to cmucl, and nobody's going to untie it
phf: well, wire/remote is cavalier with byte packing, it knows how to pack various sized types, but variable sized stuff is probably not the most bullet proof (i vaguely suspect it's similar to bitoind, i.e. <typetag><count><item><item>...
mircea_popescu: moreover, and here's where it gets biting : if we go with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1681006 ; which i expect we should, you can end up with implicit types. "you asked me for the 999999th bitcoin block, fucker". what about that ? you will need bounds adnotation yes ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i thought this was native and standard for lisp.
mircea_popescu: what happens if i do data like "1 byte|fff|2bytes|fff" ?
mircea_popescu: what happens if i do data like "1 byte|ff|2bytes|fff" ?
mircea_popescu: alright. i thought that was actually on the table.
phf: like i said elsewhere, sexp is not a data exchange format, it's a way of writing common lisp code. various extensions are there to facilitate the process of programming. it's a folly to look at sexp and go "oh, so simple! lets just store our data in it! lets rpc with it too!" because that's not really what it's designed for
mircea_popescu: ah i thought you were just loading a parser spuriously.
mircea_popescu: did i misread the intention ?
phf: well, i put it there ~intentionally~
phf: did you intentionally put #. or it just happened to be there? i think that you're looking at that sexp and you recognize its form, but #. is just some fluff?
asciilifeform: i thought the solution there was... chalkboard
mircea_popescu: for the curious : yes, i also have this problem in speech, especially when discussing complicated things with complicated women, and the solution THERE is the sort and short rule. which in relevant part says here that "(1 #.(+ 1 1) 3)" could NEVER be interpreted as "(+ 1 1)" because "(+ 1 1)" was a shorter statement of that and it wasn't used.
mircea_popescu: phf serialization can at best be a packaging. the issue is, can i say "here's a function that takes a parameter and outputs "your mom's a python" and the data payload is function(is that you daddy)" in order to convey the string "your mom's a python" ?
mircea_popescu: phf yeah, i get that.
mircea_popescu: i need someone hacking on my bitcoin like i need someone feather-tickling my spleen.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly what i said!
phf: well, i brought up the whole mutability of readtable, because that fact usually trips up novices when dealing with lisp reader. "oh i can just use sexps for everything" and then you do (format ...) on your largish data structure and you get something that's rather non-trivial to parse (an example would be the WOT.sexp)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it never caught on for large machines, i will leave the reason for this as an exercise for reader
mircea_popescu: but i can say you not merely should, but absolutely must. the cornerstone of wire protocol is a firm, protocol-derived guarantee of there being no such thing as bad data.
mircea_popescu: phf i don't know if you can or if you can't, not sufficiently experienced with the thing.
phf: can't you say the same about lisp? you establish your data format (i.e. a READTABLE that you're going to use for reading it), at which point modifications to that readtable makes for broken machine. the standard specifies how, e.g. number reader works, so if your readtable uses standard number reader 5 is 5
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i might have what you want ( supposing i correctly apprehend what you wanted. ) it was called 'harvard architecture', i even have a few here, it was once popular in single-chip fiddycent microcontrollers
mircea_popescu: the very possiblity of even having such a thing as "broken data", by eg naming your kid "-- DROP table students;" is why i agree with the sql sucks sentiment.
phf: i mean, any system can be tweaked into "number five to have the capacity to really be four". pretty much a standard exercise "oh tweak this memory location and now all your TRUEs are FALSE111"
asciilifeform: zip you or i can do about it.
mircea_popescu: i STILL don't want my number five to have the capacity to really be four.
mircea_popescu: it's bad enough for my letters abx to have the capacity to really be smileyface or whatever. and i dun like that, either.
mircea_popescu: yes, but i don't want my number five to have the capacity to really be four.
phf: there's ISLISP standard, which was supposed to create a subset of multiple different lisps (like common lisp and scheme, but also eulisp, since designed by europeans). i don't think anyone (particularly sexp library authors for other languages) ever tried to conform to it. typical solution is to have a JSON-like subset of sexps, so that you can express (FOO "abc" 2), i.e. symbol, string, number and list and nothing else
phf: (common lisp sexps are backed by a full blown reader, with multiple non-trivial dispatch macros, so for example '(1 #.(+ 1 1) 3) is a valid sexps that's read as '(1 2 3), i.e. (+ 1 1) is evaluated at read time. there's a dispatch for structs, like #S(FOO :A 1 :B 2) results in a structure foo with two slots a and b set to 1 and 2 respectively, but there's no corresponding constructor for classes. there's a reader for arrays, but that one doesn't let you
mircea_popescu: and in other "i have no idea if alf will think this is a human face or no", http://68.media.tumblr.com/ec2b3b3a67382908205ac498e1fc22ab/tumblr_o84ox08CwI1uu3p4bo1_1280.jpg
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 07:23 sina: mircea_popescu: I am guessing tmsr is not fond of things like JSON or YAML
mircea_popescu: i don't see why they couldn't.
phf: i thought it would be kind of cool if bots could sling signed lisp strings in privmessages, 0ldsch001 scenetech!
mircea_popescu: phf no, i ~know~. he doesn't expect, i don't expect either, but the difference is im being actively optimistic about it.
phf: mircea_popescu: i think you could design a pretty straightforward discovery protocol once you decided on the wire. we can see this process with irc bots here
asciilifeform: i'd enjoy being proven wrong about this. but don't expect.
asciilifeform: i dun get the fixation with 'universal db language for all walks of life' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you are running a computer. (not crap, an actual tmsr is happy with machine). when i start mine up, i want to get some bits from you. maybe it's "what sina said about mp on gossipd". maybe it's "the nth block in the current blockchain". maybe it's whatever it is. how does it do this ?
asciilifeform: colour me thick, but so far i have difficulty re what this is about
mircea_popescu: in a very harsh example : i somehow knew how to say "like ukr girls" above. i found this out somehow. how does the lisp instance find out what to say so it's meaningful ?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 15:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1680939 << actually it optimizes beautifully and needs 0 bignum anythings. but i've been holding back on spoiling this olympiad for phf et al
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1680947 << actually this is interesting, and i mean from a metaperspective. consider, randomly defined cult, they come up with some crankwagen, whatever it may be, say the mpfhf or the correct way rto diet or to cure cancer or w/e. at which point ranking member promises to come out with proof it's shit, and the result is ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i suspect gypsydom is a lot like brazildom. they dumped all the slaves in there, the results are rather varied, but strong contingent of fair brasileiras, even if lots and lots of mulattos.
phf: right then, that's what i thought
phf: lotta "romanian" girls now, i.e. darker, gypsy looking ones. is that normal for romanian girls, or that sort of type is purely gypsies? ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 08:36 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, i took girl + car out on a survey of local brothels tonite.
phf: i haven't had time to do any of this