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phf: so pressing anything from shiva graph is entirely senseless http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_tinyscheme_shiva_bridge

assbot: asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Prvdqq )

phf: i can change my toposort to consider first seen nodes first, which results in the full press like http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2

felipelalli: mircea_popescu, I know that you think expire a key is a bad idea. I saw you saying that in MPEx FAQ. But why? Could you elaborate more about that? Isn't that useful in case someone dies or lost the control over the key?

ben_vulpes: eg that `v press shiva stans_sweet_patch.vpatch && v press shiva stans_sweet_patch.vpatch' must result in the same tree as running the command once.

phf: ben_vulpes: so shiva 2 of 2 links to rest of tree, shiva 1 of 1 is a genesis with no descendants, and that whole tinyscheme_genesis_fixed tree presses into tinyscheme/ root that's not even inside bitcoin. i'm not sure what ascii is up to

phf: mircea_popescu: it's broken across multiple dom elements

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes https://archive.is/TtMr6#selection-83.9-83.27 < what's this select ?

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: highlights "uppose if we were all mentally retarded a la United States / Some O"

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: link me?

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes does the selection work on trilema for you ?

phf: ben_vulpes: yeah, i fixed more things since i last chimed in, but now end range is not being covered on safari

mod6: mircea_popescu: that part is just in reference to V's release in R.05, not the high/low S patch which is R.09

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you confirm that tinyscheme_genesis_fixed.vpatch does *not* depend on shiva parts one and two? ☟︎

mod6: mod6's vpatch, `mod6_der_high_low_s.vpatch' [R.09]

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you think i don't know this?

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo is actually right, there's some history of derpage in all this. << username high-s malleator used on social media was 'amaclin'

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes serenissima would rather buy coke whores from drexl than west coast web coders.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> since they agreed to only include low-s for whatever random reason / concern trolling / misinformed desire to be nice and good, they're stuck now. << It's power derps malleating tx on the way to miners, including on that realy network.

phf: gotta outsource it to ben_vulpes

BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> in that it's possible to malleate in either direction. ease i suppose doesn't figure into the question. << Someone malleating to high-s is why power derps started malleating to low-s

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nope was @phf's question

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes in what sense "just as possible"

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: meaning that transactions can only be malleated from high->low order?

assbot: asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud ... ( http://bit.ly/1QR7NvC )

phf: mircea_popescu: http://104.131.72.249/patches/asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud does selection work here for you?

mircea_popescu: !up ascii_rear

assbot: mod6_fix_dumpblock_params ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQHOC )

mircea_popescu: http://104.131.72.249/patches/mod6_fix_dumpblock_params << this is rapidly becoming very sweet. mind adding the select javascript too ? :D

mircea_popescu: !up ascii_rear

phf: ascii_rear: you tried fastmail?

BingoBoingo: !up ascii_rear

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if i understand the shiva rebake correctly, applying tinyscheme_genesis_vpatch, then tinyscheme_crud_snip, then tinyscheme_repl_fix_fixed bangs the tree into the correct shape?

assbot: Logged on 02-01-2016 21:57:55; jurov: deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160102/attachment_0451ec0ba3062d4608318f96270dd7c9f65e42e1.txt

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 14:42:22; mircea_popescu: just, if you want to add a patch, should be able to dump it as dpaste also.

adlai: ben_vulpes: archive.is the best -ception

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> so the '.' is both a line-break escape and string concatenation? << its not a line break. its just a string concatenation.

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 17:53:34; phf: mircea_popescu: hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? << like http://104.131.72.249/patches/? (is in no way bulletproof, so i expect it to be down by the time i come back from breakfast)

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 17:53:21; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" . \n "otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings << where do you see this? this is not a thing. that would fail to compile/pass-interpreter-smell-test.

mod6: so ben_vulpes, understand that there is like a jumble of different things he submitted, and if the wrong ones are incorporated, it might puke.

mod6: ben_vulpes: how we lookin' bud?

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 15:52:04; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390875 << i'd be surprised if you actually can ever find this.

assbot: mod6_fix_dumpblock_params ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQQHOC )

phf: so i added inline patch display to my patch display displayer instead http://104.131.72.249/patches/mod6_fix_dumpblock_params

adlai: mircea_popescu: in these early days, when Bitcoin does not yet fully Exist, it seems as though everything is an option. the full shiva vision, as i understand it from recent logs, opens the door to doing exactly that, if some energetic idiot decides it's a good idea

asciilifeform: fortunately for mircea_popescu , now i go and pet pet and wander around.

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 15:28:44; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because thiel got money and no self respect.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm the 'whale' that moves the 10 tonnes, there.

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 19:29:40; mircea_popescu: and i fear nobody does nor could anyone have such resources.

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 19:07:51; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390963 << look into clasp then, i'd just started digging into it when asciilifeform released shiva

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know what "not making the cut" is wqith a woman ? even if you're a saudi prince and your daddy buys her for you ; even if you're an afghan monkey and she deeply believes she has to. there's a point where you make the cut or don't, and that's what it is.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mno. in yudkowsky's case, it meant being kicked out of high school.

adlai: ben_vulpes: "standards-compliant" lol.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: clasp is one of those 'lisps without eval' isnnit.

asciilifeform: aha. mircea_popescu has it.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that's when you bring out the press depth knob. OR alternatively sign the ones you want! and then press using a wot that contains only ben_vulpes

ben_vulpes: because i want to press "shiva" into a tree that doesn't have, say, malleus_mikehearnificarum

asciilifeform: this automagically gives you 'mod6 & ben_vulpes release', or 'what mircea_popescu is willing to use', or ' asciilifeform's bleeding razor'

asciilifeform: i came back to console because i realized that mircea_popescu was making a VITAL point that is in danger of being glossed over

ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski another translation challenger appears: http://trilema.com/2010/inca-o-pozitie-sexuala/

phf: mircea_popescu: is that a list of names that correspond to .wot? i.e. each patch has (asciilifeform, mod6, etc.) and then there's a set of all wots for current press?

mod6: start without this patch : asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatchasciilifeform-programmable-versionstring.vpatch, or th mod6_der_high_low_s.vpatch

punkman: mircea_popescu: phf yes, the list of all signatures seen to reach that leaf. << that would just return "asciilifeform" :P

phf: mircea_popescu: touched signatures?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: jurov is not to blame, the original design tip was actually mine

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which 3

phf: mircea_popescu: nodes are clickable

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdatron_is_retarded_and_must_die.tar.gz << version string fix

mod6: ben_vulpes: ok, yeah, you through something into patches that it didn't die gracefully on: http://dpaste.com/1GJP2X4.txt

mod6: <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? << i've just run this again myselfand logged output here: http://dpaste.com/0P2QXYG.txt I'm not sure how what you saw happened there. :/ << im wondering if this could be related to a GPG version thing or something? because the line of code that is executed here is this:

mod6: ben_vulpes: thanks for testing V. i appreciate that.

mod6: <+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 https://7chan.org/pr/src/The_Little_Schemer_4th_2.pdf << a real joy of a b00k, i taught a gurl scheme once from it << hey thanks!

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 i believe i have a bug for you: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8d9ad794-4b47-407e-9db4-a9a8cb2c70b4/ << lol, what did you do to this poor thing!

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 stick a random file with .html suffix in the patches dir to reproduce the stale gnupg dir big << this is what I'll test with.

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 i got v.pl into a weird place where it didn't clean up its gnupg tempdir. perhaps consider using an "exit_gracefully" function where you're currently simply "die"-ing. << this basically /shouldn't/ happen. i'll follow your steps here and try to see what went wrong.

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> unrelatedly, while we're ripping the rug out from under mod6, is there a good reason to continue with the inconsistent directory structure of `./.seals' and `./patches'? << this was in alf's original POC. i think it can stay. especially because you *can* name the dirs whatever you wish.

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? << i've just run this again myselfand logged output here: http://dpaste.com/0P2QXYG.txt I'm not sure how what you saw happened there. :/

phf: mircea_popescu: hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? << like http://104.131.72.249/patches/? (is in no way bulletproof, so i expect it to be down by the time i come back from breakfast) ☟︎

mod6: <+ben_vulpes> yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" . \n "otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings << where do you see this? this is not a thing. that would fail to compile/pass-interpreter-smell-test. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 https://7chan.org/pr/src/The_Little_Schemer_4th_2.pdf << a real joy of a b00k, i taught a gurl scheme once from it

asciilifeform: la is their way of life and they wonder why nothing can ever get done because all available time and any available resources get wasted in an effort to sort a group. (The Italians are the exact same way, by the way, and from what I hear the Greeks idem.)' << from mircea_popescutron

assbot: Logged on 02-01-2016 16:39:19; ascii_rear: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine

assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 16:29:32; mircea_popescu: it's fucking ridiculous. the current cost of 14.7kb is something like

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason none of the 'not terrible' folk express the thing in correct terms, which is that tx is a ~cost~ to other people who run nodes

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 11:07:31; jurov: ben_vulpes: eulora code is several levels more crooked than satoshi's, i tried to ffi python and left that for later in disgust.

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 09:26:17; diana_coman: thanks ben_vulpes , I'll have a look; it's been ages since I last wrote anything in Scheme as such, but if there's a chance of moving the client away from cpp it's certainly worth having a look at

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:36:07; ben_vulpes: this is probably a purposes and causes thing, huh. avoid working towards the purpose of usable software for other people, and proceed from the cause of "hell is other people's code"...

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:35:23; ben_vulpes: is everyone who hacks on this thing to write and use their own vtronic cockpit controls? or is the production of /a/ vtron usable in other contexts a goal?

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:14:35; *: ben_vulpes goes digging through the gui for "never ever fucking toss my scrollback option"

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:12:20; ben_vulpes: "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"?

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 14:27:50; mircea_popescu: and thinking about it on the way from bed to machine, because this idea woke me up : it seems deedbot and the ml management really should be merged. any conceivable reason patches can't be submitted via deedbot's mechanism ? not necessarily to remove the email feeding, but as an add-on ?

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:13:19; ben_vulpes: punkman: by my read 'rebase' as mircea_popescu uses it means 'dump into the v tree'

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 06:54:12; ben_vulpes: http://www.northofreality.com/secrets/ << bit of a shame that aramcheck's not in the wot and on patreon, i like his weirdfic.

asciilifeform: http://lesswrong.com/lw/p0/to_spread_science_keep_it_secret << one of these pieces by y

asciilifeform: http://lesswrong.com/lw/lr/evaporative_cooling_of_group_beliefs << original piece on same

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 14:48:21; mircea_popescu: http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-99/ << this guy is fucking epic lol. "go is gone. Yudkowsky sounds the alarm." and links a fb posting.

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 06:49:42; ben_vulpes: what is "the leyla black"?

assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 09:36:51; diana_coman: well, there is no hard requirement as such to have the client written in cpp; but it's true that it's quite a huge effort to make an alternative, sane client (for one thing, I'd love a text-only client for instance)

jurov: ben_vulpes: eulora code is several levels more crooked than satoshi's, i tried to ffi python and left that for later in disgust. ☟︎