537700+ entries in 0.347s
mircea_popescu: when put
together with
the nix discussion on github it gives me spots on
the spline.
mircea_popescu: anyway :
the quote you
took carries a certain meaning in its original context (physics - esp "natural" is a
term of art in physics) and is an entirely different
thing in
the new context (coding). i fully agree with
the quote as it is on
the source blog
gabriel_laddel: wtf is
this, we're discussing a footnote in something I posted.
mircea_popescu: all
the various foregoing rants are not directed at you personally as if you were somehow in
ther wrong on some score.
mircea_popescu: you know it's not your
trial for being a badman,
this.
gabriel_laddel: That said, I've had
the experience several
times of reading
trilema or
the logs, not immediately grokking it, returning a day later
to have it all 'click'. I'm
thinking
that might happen here.
mircea_popescu: aye, i suspect notation and structure are actually closer married
than we generally realise.
mircea_popescu: it's even difficult
to establish what kids of infinite are involved.
mircea_popescu: the right structure is
that structure which expresses
the sum
total of all
the concepts in can express in
the smallest
total count of expression units. note
that both fields being infinite,
this is a difficult comparison
to evaluate.
gabriel_laddel: the only reasonable basis for discussing such
things is how much power
they afford you
mircea_popescu: mebbe i should dig
that article where i murder some guy over leaving out
the outside paran or something.
gabriel_laddel: becuase of
the "various subsidiary problems
that fall away"
mircea_popescu: (ps.
the lisp notation of basic arithmetic would win "least likely
to succeed" "ass-ugliest award" from a vast majority of all
the people who understand basic arithmetic. it "doesn't feel right" for almost anyone. 3+4 does.
mircea_popescu: which is why a flimsy repackaging of "popular advice"
that doesn't even work on
the fucking plane is horribru. not only it doesn't work in practice, but
the mind
that
tends
to make such confusions is probably in a very poor state
to
think about anything.
mircea_popescu: dna is exactly
this : worst code ever, wouldn't even parse, let alone compile.
mircea_popescu: so yes, you can do just fine as a human interacting with humans on broken structure. just as long as it's broken in
tolerable places.
mircea_popescu: re game of balance : fucking is an extremely poor metaphora for what we're doing here, because computers are actually
turing machines, whereas cunts are not.
gabriel_laddel: hoever it was, and I'm fairly sure I grok ASCII's plan and will be handling some intro documentation for it + figuring out how
the PGP code needs
to interface with it exactly.
gabriel_laddel: as for my id, I'm currently fixing <irritant
to livelihood>. First chance I get I'm sitting down and sorting out
the whole GPG
thing. As it stands I was not particularly happy with
the documentation it supplied and wasn't sure which parts I'd have
to rewrite. My previous key got destroyed in a failed backup becuase I didn't spend enough
time on it
the first
time around. Also, I don't
think gossipd is happening via w
mircea_popescu: but you, in your own description (well, in
their description which you seem
to underscore) of "how
to meta-structure" in fact revert
to what is
the equivalent of pattern matching.
gabriel_laddel: at some point you've just got
to
try something different.
gabriel_laddel: using regexes for
that is something like...
trying
to impregnate a woman
through her arse.
mircea_popescu: just you know, pattern match and all will be well (when it's
truely well)
mircea_popescu: after all... when you hit
the language with regexp just right you know.
mircea_popescu: but in any case : what do you figure is
the difference bewteen "When you strike
the natural structure, a sort of resonance occurs" and "perl is a fine way
to do nixos" ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: yes. you've written about
the game of 'balance' wrt fucking. when playing
this game you /know/ somehow
that you're doing it correctly, via various signals.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i actually was kinda disinterested in fucking as a young adolescent, was
taught by older girls.
mircea_popescu: the entire basis for
that quote is
the reverbalisation of
the concept
that "when
true love comes around you'll know". empirically, most people do not.
gabriel_laddel: feelings, and
trial and error were not involved at all?
mircea_popescu: the fact of it being a pile a kludge is an excellent indication of it not being
the best way, but rather heuristic in nature.
mircea_popescu: listen here :
the fact
that it feels right is no indication of it being
the best way.
gabriel_laddel: well, when someone is
tweaking
the design of something and it produces extremely complex and counter-intuitive behavior I point
them
to
that quote.
mircea_popescu: what
the fuck already, if
the planet crossed
through a bogon ray one evening in 1988 and made everyone's brain essentially batrachian in nature i could never know.
mircea_popescu: these kids are so fucking stupid i can't believe i've just read "when you meet
the right someone it'll feel special" in code-words.
mircea_popescu: What you hope
to find is
the natural structure of what you're describing — a structure
that affords a really beautiful, simple description. When you strike
the natural structure, a sort of resonance occurs, in which various subsidiary problems you may have had with your description just melt away, and
the description practically writes itself."
mircea_popescu: "Suppose you're
trying
to find
the best way
to structure your description of something. (Examples: choosing
the structure for a computer program
to perform some
task; or choosing
the structure for a
theory of physics.)
mircea_popescu still vividly remembers
this event when he was maybe 13 or so.
this kid "got really psised off" and was going
to hit me. every
time he launched his fist, he also closed his eyes. every
time i'd dodge and he'd mash his fist into
the nearby wall. his hits got softer an softer, but he never figured out why exactly he's not making contact.
gabriel_laddel: as for
the fight in our realm, I'd like
to buy 10ks of AMD opterons K8 chips and reverse engineer
them. Give designs
to China.
gabriel_laddel: Seriously. Where is
the
tree of all hardware as nodes with drivers as sub nodes? Oh, it doesn't exist? right.
mircea_popescu: the sad reality is
that
the earlier "linux is a failure but doesn't have
to stay
that way" is slowly coming
to
the sobering reality
that "it is a failure and systemfuck it."
mircea_popescu: "There are very few classics in
the field of computing. We are at
the very beginning of
this journey and it hasn't even begun
to get interesting yet. IMHO,
the Cathedral vs. Bazaar isn't in anyway a dilemma or a classic. Linux was a failure 20 years ago, it is a failure
today and any posturing otherwise is just
that. "
mod6: no need
to worry about r00tkit, r00tkit pre-installed!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i didn;'t mean you, i'm stikk in shock over
the quote above
mircea_popescu: let's just assume
that it's ok
to override
the user imperatives. because.
mircea_popescu: like you know, plaintext emails and unauthed
telnet. because "who would ever hijack an account!"
mircea_popescu: no but
this is out and out "everythingwillbefineism" imported back into
the software stack.
mircea_popescu: "For instance, for ELF executables, we set
the RPATH in
the executable such
that it will find a statically determined set of library dependencies at runtime, rather
than using a dynamic mechanism such as
the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable
to look up libraries" holy shit.
chetty: it's more like expecting
tramps
to ballet. spontaneously.//you mean
they don't? I see in
the movies all
the
time
mircea_popescu: only correct solution
to political problems, b-a ness.
mircea_popescu: in MPWorld
this is implemented as a sort of api, and languages either
talk
to it or are stuck doing 100% of
the work
themselves.
gabriel_laddel: Politics is harder
than writing code. Who would have
thought.
mircea_popescu: "Examples: at what point is appropriate
to leave package management up
to a language's ecosystem? Is
there ever a reason
to? " << one hell of a problem.
gabriel_laddel: mistakenly posted
that issue, not fully grokking how bad of an idea it was
gabriel_laddel: ^ Correct. I ended up using it because I needed
to quickly build a linux distro and someone
told me it could do some
things it couldn't really do.
mircea_popescu: kids are expecting
to do it and do it well but it's never
taught. it's not like expecting virgins
to fuck like pros on
their first date. it's more like expecting
tramps
to ballet. spontaneously.
mircea_popescu: the problem starts in 5th grade.
there should be a class called Abstraction.
gabriel_laddel: yeah. also,
they don't document anything, or so much as
tell you
that
they're going
to move
the whole C
toolchain.
gabriel_laddel: using shell scripts and regexes, because
types and haskell
mircea_popescu: i imagine you know, if you can't say it for yourself, you're stuck
trying
to find people
to support you
fluffypony: mircea_popescu:
they're part of
the "pat-on-the-back" crowd
that constantly need
to be
told what a good job
they're doing else
their paltry raison d'être will crumble
mircea_popescu: and somehow
these natural and necessary modes of speech are "forbidden". /rant.
mircea_popescu: fuck (not heck. fuck!) it's probably even why people don't enjoy writing comments and specs. because
they require "this is great" and "im so fucking proud of
this" ands "i bet you wouldn't have come up with
this in five lifetimes"
to be either worth reading or worth writing