log☇︎
53400+ entries in 0.371s
asciilifeform: ( i.e. every time you write down a '+' that's a minimum of 2N LUTs used up, that cannot be used for anything else, where N is the operand width )
apeloyee: I think http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722402 will win over quadratic gcd. ☝︎
asciilifeform: and incidentally i was not joking when said 32kb, it is fully my intention to eventually put whole thing on fpga where there will be certainly not even half MB of working space.
asciilifeform: (i.e. you still win if you take 500x the cpu cycles, so long as you don't get cache-evicted)
apeloyee: the fact that i don't need the batch aspect for anything, for starters << so don't.
asciilifeform: the fact that i don't need the batch aspect for anything, for starters
asciilifeform: why the hell should i keep random crud in a table to pick up later.
asciilifeform: because i'm on a chip with 32kB of memory, say.
asciilifeform: i used bernstein's tree in phuctor, where it made actual sense
asciilifeform: ( and potentially for other primality tests, though i can think of some cryptosystems where it is handy )
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 21:28 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << i thought bernstein's "how to find smooth parts of integers" suggests a remainder tree, not gcd?
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722400 << hey, I offered you an idea for GCD. you: "it stinks". I point you to bernstein ( https://facthacks.cr.yp.to/batchtrial.html ). you: "it stinks". maybe GCD is not a sane option ofter all, eh? ☝︎
asciilifeform: when i say 'week' it does not mean on a particular test.
apeloyee: anyway, I was saying that, if spending a week, may spend a small fraction of the time on the supposed-deterministic test
mircea_popescu: i know no proof of r-m convergence in terms of factorization.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i don't actually see how 'test for a week' is crackpottery when speaking about a key that is intended to stand up for 50 years ( or longer )
mircea_popescu: no, i get it. you want a prime index function.
asciilifeform: and incidentally if there existed an UNBIASED constructor of primes, i'd use that
asciilifeform: ( i.e. i regard the proof behind strength of the probabilistic ver, as fundamentally stronger than the other's )
mircea_popescu: as per the ancient "doctor, random things in the house are talking to me, am i losing it ?" "have you started answering ?" "not yet" "then not yet"
asciilifeform: i'll take the p(failure) to the week's power, over the possibility of hypothesis falling and ALL keys fucked.
apeloyee: doesn't run in geological (e.g. saxena) time << if you have faith in generalized riemann hypothesis and correctness of work on deterministic miller test - you have it. I don't, but running test for a week is imo greater crackpottery than believing in that.
asciilifeform: i'm not aware of a fully deterministic test that doesn't run in geological (e.g. saxena) time
jurov: hi mircea_popescu, s.qntr is still traded? i have got some frozen mpex orders
mircea_popescu: well that's what i'm saying.
apeloyee: I think so.
asciilifeform: i can't think of why to do any such thing
mircea_popescu: which i assume we won't be doing ?
asciilifeform: i suspect that for any probabilistic test, you can construct a boojum (e.g. you know that he will do 300 rounds, you make one that needs 301 )
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i don't see what is wrong with standard modexp
apeloyee: each round of miller-rabin is mostly a modexp which makes some tests on the intermediate results. so I don't see how you can avoid a different version of modexp
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192'
asciilifeform: just like i did everywhere else.
asciilifeform: understand, this thing is 800 lines right now and i consider it too big.
apeloyee: well, I thought it's not a problem, each round of m-r can be implemented by slightly different version of extant modexp
asciilifeform: ( i linked to a concrete algo for this attack some months ago )
mircea_popescu: i don't see what the problem is, practically. so you leak ... how many times you had to try to get a prime ?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i see your point. either we dispense with the sieve, or decide to count from the moment after sieve.
apeloyee: on a different topic, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722429 and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721484 seem to contradict each other. what's an initial sieve for if the algo must run in fixed time? i've interpreted it as "successful test must run in fixed time, failures can be variable-time", and make proposal accordingly. ☝︎☝︎
apeloyee: your choice to not implement it. i've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort anyway.
asciilifeform: i even threw out ability to have mul operands that are not power of 2.
apeloyee: i.e. the lower part.
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722397 << I was unclear. Let A be the number to be reduced mod N, R the approximate reciprocal, K the ffa bitness fitting the modulus, then we know that 0<A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) < 2*N <2^(K+1). So might as well calculate A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) modulo 2^(K+1). ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( karatsuba, i will note for n00bz, parallelizes , but i deliberately omitted parallelization logic because i want ffa buildable on msdos and for machines with 1 cpu )
mircea_popescu: i was going to say, the calculated %s rarely match. but theoretically, it should be less than 0.1
asciilifeform: and then bernsteinian karatsuba, possibly, and whatever else i can think of.
asciilifeform: which i will also make, and decide if it was worth the cost
asciilifeform: for instance unrolled comba wins 20-25% speed, but i did not use it in place of the generic because it is longer and harder to read.
apeloyee: i'ma try it next<< for less than 15% speedup (or 10% for 8192-bit operands)? converting to classical barrett should be much more productive
mircea_popescu: apeloyee i'm curious, what do you do for a living ?
asciilifeform: i'ma try it next
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 00:38 asciilifeform: mod6: you will notice that the barrett in 'crc handbook' is more complicated : it shrinks the x and then compensates later. this relies on normalization , and constanttimeized incarnation of it would have to work as apeloyee described ( i'ma try it much later, once i see what can be had re speed strictly from having asymmetric karatsuba instead of the current mega-waste )
asciilifeform: currently i'm aiming for <1sec (opteron 3GHz) 4096b modexp, with minimal new moving parts. after that -- releasing.
apeloyee: I mean, W_Mul doesn't do karatsuba
danielpbarron: ah ok, i did read that part
trinque: isn't reflected until I actually credit the account
phf: trinque: i'll fix http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721087 in a bit. obviously such a change will require deedbot to not ever quote arbitrary log lines in channel ☝︎
trinque: today I learn autossh will sometimes exit wtf
phf: i was going to say maybe it's hardcoded to mircea_popescu, but lobbes was using it too
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, i get no response from the bot
mircea_popescu: I GUESS THE WORLD WILL NEVER KNOW.
danielpbarron: what am i doing wrong?
mircea_popescu: i don't think such a thing as randfomly polarized female wave ever existed or ever could exist.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason i can't help but think of the old lul with chinese on footstools synchronously jumping
mircea_popescu: anyway, the whole meeting went in that vein, ceausescu pointed out to soviet troops still at praga, gorby was liek "oh, that is a bilateral matter" "da, stiu, este un acord bilateral incheiat dupa ocuparea cehoslovaciei" (yea, i know... post-occupation bilateral). then gorby says they can't agree in this matter and ceausescu agrees with him.
mircea_popescu: "nu-i adevarat (that's not true), romania nu a iesti din aceasta problema (romania didn't exit the matter), romania nu a intrat in cehoslovacia (it never entered) asa ca nu avea de unde sa iasa (had not what to exit)"
asciilifeform: in tito's case , and for that matter kim ir sen's -- 'throne is mine, i won it as partizan commander in the war, took no payola from foreign devils' was tru. but how did the shoemaker get ~his~ throne
mircea_popescu: guy never saw himself as much more of a su ally than saudis see themselves us allies i dun suspect.
shinohai: ^ I heard the above was edited by sjw on Google translate. It used to be "Take a look at the nigger"
asciilifeform went on a tr kick and noticed that dulap is a turkish, i.e. dolap ( crate )
asciilifeform: ( or possibly i misread re habitation. but still fountain of lulz. )
mircea_popescu: I suppose i could do a phonetics of this.
phf: i've started writing blog posts to "toughen my hand", but it's rough going, i'll add it to the list of things to write about
phf: fwiw all our production lisp runs on sbcl, including btcbase. as much as i'm pimping cmucl, it's not "modern" enough to host a website on unix. i still think it's a better target for a hypothetical on the iron common lisp
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see eggog
spyked: anyway, I have much of Scheme in head. I'm looking at tinyscheme mostly to figure out what "subset of r5rs" they've implemented. though I'm expecting tinyscheme subset isn't necessarily the same as tmsr-needed subset.
phf: spyked: i'd also recommend staying away from continuations, they are a cute hack and flow out of some of the classical scheme interpreter designs (i.e. CPS transform), but they are not very useful in production. instead i'd go for a tagbody that gets compiled to a bunch of jmps. in practice tagbody solves 99% of cont problems
phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory ☟︎
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1720982 <-- considering this as a "learn Ada" project. will share code once I have minimum item worth of showing (processing r5rs and tinyscheme meanwhile) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: no it's not a fucking bit. even if i sometimes sound just like a character, it's purely fucking accident!
mircea_popescu: assistence went "you don't remember esr ?" and i went "what would i remember him for ?" and they went "is this a bit ?"
a111: Logged on 2017-10-08 13:27 mircea_popescu sits here trying to remember the name of the irrelevant dork with the guns. after a while the best lead i have is "hacker lexicon" was it ? google produces nothing but wired crap ; if treated with a -wired sprinking, suddenly catb.org "jargon file" is top result.
mircea_popescu sits here trying to remember the name of the irrelevant dork with the guns. after a while the best lead i have is "hacker lexicon" was it ? google produces nothing but wired crap ; if treated with a -wired sprinking, suddenly catb.org "jargon file" is top result. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: phf i dun think they got off cloudflare tbh, this looks like exactly the sort of crap.
shinohai: Weirdly enough when I dig archive.is I get:
mircea_popescu: phf i see the same ip as you do.
phf: my specific ip was a cloudflare ip 104.28.25.2. current dig for archive.is resolves to 195.123.218.180, which is a netherlands "mobicom ltd" range. i suspect that archive.is took themselves off cloudflare in the last some months, so now i'm hitting cloudflare proxy servers and they are complaining that the host: is no longer served
spyked: ftr, I have archive.is in hostsfile with a different IP than the one currently returned by DNS, and not getting a cloudflare page.
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. so you had a specific ip, which used to work, but now they changed it and instead of failing they self-advertise ?
phf: it was confusing because i was getting legitimate cloudflare issues all the while i was in russia. now i wonder if it's some dns "firewall" propagation issue
phf: oh never mind false alert, i have an explicit archive.is host in my hosts file
phf: so i wonder if my machine has been fingerprinted somehow
phf: well, i've been getting that error for the past two months. while there was still a heavy archive.is exchange in the logs, os i thought it's something to do with russia. i'm still getting it in u.s. though :o
mircea_popescu: also fwiw, i see it.
mircea_popescu: i hope we all got zips.
phf: BingoBoingo: is that archive.is link working for you? i've been getting routing resolution errors from cloudflare, pretty consistently part few months
spyked: mircea_popescu, I'm not sure how I would evaluate it other than by looking at the "boy has no aspirations of his own; boy meets girl; boy gets in trouble; boy gets face stomped by boot" trope that's repeated throughout dystopian novels; there's probably more to it than that, but if there is, I'm not equipped with the literary baggage to see it. Orwell is fashionable nowadays because pantsuit equates Trump with big brother, and... so
phf: nope, it was started by john tye, https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/meet-john-tye-the-kinder-gentler-and-by-the-book-whistleblower/. i suppose he should be classified as a chair shuffler
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722496 << heh i was marveling at the same ad couple of days ago, which i assume means they are all over the trains. i wonder if it's sunlight foundation project ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i would agree that zamyatin is a brilliant pamphleteer and an interesting ethnological/"historical" source.