log☇︎
500000+ entries in 0.321s
asciilifeform: mr mold decided that he was anxious to remain alive. i can't really see why.
mircea_popescu: there was a very apt summary in that physicits's criticism. i suppose i should look it up.
asciilifeform: The youth: ‘So that I can get on with my work, of course.’
asciilifeform: Orwell: ‘But why are you so anxious to remain alive?’
asciilifeform: The youth: ‘That would be just too bad.’
asciilifeform: The youth: ‘Nonsense! You don't suppose the Germans are going to encourage Fascism in this country, do you? They don't want to breed up a race of warriors to fight against them. Their object will be to turn us into slaves. That's why I'm a pacifist. They'll encourage people like me.’
asciilifeform: Orwell: ‘Do you really want to see your children grow up Nazis?’
asciilifeform: brings to mind,
mircea_popescu: im starting to notice a pattern here, he reads exactly like yak guy, once i read yak guy
asciilifeform: but can't even tell now.
asciilifeform: i actually read his 'all bitcoin users will be gassed' thing as honest defeatism
asciilifeform: and sorta wanted to get back to these two highlights of his youth
mircea_popescu: right. but that's half the story.
asciilifeform: close. exists because y dropped out of grad school to play original 'dotcom' chumpamatic
mircea_popescu: so i guess two can't admits make it a mindblowing evil thing.
mircea_popescu: for the other it's not ok to admit urbit exists strictly because a) yarvin's chumpatron attempt failed just at the time b) usg was looking for a particular tool
mircea_popescu: well for one thing it's not ok to admit yarvin is orlov in a different color scheme
asciilifeform: they'll eat their pants before admitting it's 'usg bitcoin'
mircea_popescu: i liked that part.
mircea_popescu: As a development methodology it's often useful to write hoon that tracks an existing C routine rather than the other way around, but even this needs to be done quite carefully to avoid jet discrepancies."
mircea_popescu: "Writing an empty stub is an extremely bad practice and should only be done in desperation, because at the urbit level it produces a system event log that is nonrepeatable, or at least noncompliant with the nock spec. Discrepancies propagate rapidly in any kind of replay. You should be able to turn off all jets and get the same result. This is not practical, but it is practical if you disable everything but a few ba
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084446 << lol wait, they came full circle to the actual goal, usg's own bitcoin ?
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 23:42:12; asciilifeform: for the benefit of n00bs, i will briefly elaborate
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you recall the 'specificity of diddling' thread ?
mircea_popescu: nobody is disputing it's a very useful tool for many things.
asciilifeform: my brother had one - i had the other
asciilifeform: (and the occasional floppy/pc)
asciilifeform: must add also that the possibility of emulating a reasonably unix-capable computer is relatively recent. in university 'operating systems' courses in '99 folks were still rebooting actual pc, with floppy, 500 times a day. in 2006 - qemu.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:34:58; jurov: even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084405 << the reason they're doing this is obvious. they want to find bugs.
mircea_popescu: well yes. im chasing the culprit. i wish to know who the fuck thought this is a good idea.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:32:29; nubbins`: but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes?
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:17:35; asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it
asciilifeform: (dns removal. but one more tumour growth left, the external-ip getter)
asciilifeform: i think we shot (a) in the head
asciilifeform: that we tried to fire and somehow surprised
mircea_popescu: so far, i'm a) chasing whoever the fuck broke the world by making an idiotic libnss and b) unconvinced the problem's more than that dns bs.
asciilifeform: but none of it changes the fundamentally bowel-loosening fact of discovering that 1) extant linuxen are incompatible in eldritch ways 2) that impact bitcoind build
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with trying it.
asciilifeform admits he tried
mircea_popescu: we're still atthe principle of the matter.
mircea_popescu: no, we've not even come to the discussion where "it's entirely unclear desktop with bitcoind in quemu can even process blocks in 10 minutes each"
asciilifeform: but what is the alternative whereby each of us ends up with 1) EXACTLY same machine 2) one we can still get 1000 years later
asciilifeform: which is what emulator amounts to.
asciilifeform: ideally i would not even suggest something as terrifyingly unpleasant as - in effect - giving everyone a 486.
mircea_popescu: but that's a different discussion.
mircea_popescu: i don't have anything against running test versions of golden-bitcoind on anything, including toasters, gameboys, toasters emulated on gameboys etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is right, but in the same way as a fella taking penicillin is 'swallowing poison'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't see this as anything but "adding more bad code".
asciilifeform: or my mips-on-fpga that exists nowhere but my living room
mircea_popescu: with who knows what dirty hacks everywhere to make it "portabler"
mircea_popescu: so you want me to pull in more code than the openssl. with worse risk outlook.
asciilifeform: but think of it as a skyscraper foundation. there is tremendous pressure on it
asciilifeform: that's the thing, bug in emulator is catastrophic
mircea_popescu: how do you distinguish a bug in the os from a bug in the emulator from a bug in the code ?
asciilifeform: in the way that we are too poor (yes, poor) to do with tangible machine yet.
asciilifeform: that'd be a monumentally strange thing to do. but not what suggested.
mircea_popescu: this is the last thing we want.
mircea_popescu: you essentially have managed to divorce a new academia out of engineering
mircea_popescu: if your binary that runs can not be run by your golden standard
asciilifeform: yes, the bin. small enough to eventually disasm & read.
asciilifeform: as in 'here they are and this they shall be in 3015 running on Aldan-XVIII cpu'
mircea_popescu: but this is essentially naive. because, again, the bitcoind is not the code you read, but the binary that runs.
asciilifeform: as in, putting an actual cork in the os/libs/cpu/etc
asciilifeform: but to cross-compile for normal machine (ibmpc, pogo, vax, whatever)
asciilifeform: anyway the point, again, would not be to ever -run- bitcoind in the dog-slow emulated linux
asciilifeform: win turing prize.
asciilifeform: why not << because no reason to take 25x cpu hit
mircea_popescu: are you running this in an emulator ?
asciilifeform: for fucks sake, they exist and i use them every day for past decade.
mircea_popescu: inb short : it'd be great if emulators as you conceptually represent one existed and work. they do not. what we need is a distro to set in stone.
asciilifeform: (if fella who turns, is 'rotor') ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is lieke 90% of what i'd want a 2nd pet for
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't propose this for anyone else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sometimes, you can take the contents of the emulator and - if it exists and you have it in your collection - run it on physical iron
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'll need to get a map to check that
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: you're closer to derpbama than i to ford ;)
mircea_popescu: plenty of 32 bit run on 64 bit that way for instance.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: not that anything does, but "Wabafiyebazu" isn't that canadian
asciilifeform: emulator can be of anything you like, whether the computer from 'apollo' space probe, or one that i made up for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: and there you have your problem.
asciilifeform: hypervisor requires host and guest architectures to be same.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski "The teens are the sons of Roxanne Dubé, who only recently assumed the role of consul general in Miami. A former Fulbright scholar, she has extensive diplomatic experience, having worked as an aide in Parliament and as the ambassador to Zimbabwe."
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I dunno, what's going on in the Canadia
pete_dushenski: why can't they just buy coke from a classmate like normal kids of consuls ?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: how stupid and ballsy are these consul's kids that they "planned to rob the drug dealers "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the short version of the difference is that a 'hypervisor' emulates -certain- instructions, that are understood to modify the global state of the machine in ways which would allow the guest os to monopolize the hardware (e.g., write a block to the disk at index I) whereas an emulator emulates -all- instructions executed by the guest
mircea_popescu: but this because hypervisor is badly implemented.
asciilifeform: actually the rub with hypervisor is that the 'guest' -can- affect the 'host' quite often.
mircea_popescu: yes. that special meaning is "runs vms"
asciilifeform: because we are essentially interpreting the snes instructions
mircea_popescu: so far this is a hypervisor.
asciilifeform: and regardless of what the nintendo proggy does, cannot crash the elbrus
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have a confusion of terminology here. an emulator is, for instance, 'zsnes' - popular 'super nintendo' emul
mircea_popescu: but only provided the underlying os behaves.
asciilifeform: when used as classical qemu (with accelerator) there is no hypervisor
mircea_popescu: but pretending like magic works isn't a solution to it.
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFWV-mfMdw8 << if this be the same weiner that keeps derping with seamonster
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that the pc architecture (as a standard that you can hard-hold a vendor to) is dead.