492200+ entries in 0.325s
trinque: felipelalli: "this guy
that uses
these handles scammed me; here's
the
transaction on
the blockchain, blah blah"
williamdunne: trinque: I was mindfucked for
the past 12 months or so, but I didn't dive in and read blogs etc first
felipelalli: trinque: it's
true! deedbot solves
the blacklist problem, I
think.
trinque: asciilifeform: I was utterly mindfucked for
the majority of
the
time I first spent here
trinque: the point when saying something about a person of obvious identity is identifying
the *author*, not him
trinque: felipelalli: if you want
to say something about your president, put it in
the deedbot
felipelalli: trinque: not everyone, but at least
the important people
to me.
trinque: that world may never have everyone in
the WoT
felipelalli: decimation: you're right. But would be so cool and useful if I really could use WoT
to
things in day
to day and not only in dreams.
☟︎ decimation: felipelalli: understand
that
the 'us community' doesn't 'move
to here' either
felipelalli: but it would be at least funny. I'd rate
the president of Brazil,
the "mirror" user "twitter-dilmabr" as -10 as "scammer!" for example.
mats: the br community doesn't deserve or want
to be here, so don't bother
mats: interfacing
the real WoT with some federated, poorly implemented imitation is a recipe for disaster
felipelalli: trinque: I know
that. I am
trying
to convince
the Brazilian community move
to here, but it is being hard.
The main community is still on Facebook.
☟︎ trinque: felipelalli:
the WoT *is*
the social network
felipelalli: asciilifeform: in
the car I was
thinking about a solution and I
think I found it: what if
the "derivated mirrored user" was just an ID of a social network like Facebook or
Twitter? Before strike me, let me explain my motivation:
decimation: and
then
they steal your "you were stole from"
williamdunne: But
they don't just deprive you of your livelihood,
they also strip you of your reputation and in many cases remove your ability
to defend it.
trinque: decimation: now
they deprive you of your livelihood before you ever reach
the courthouse
trinque: makes me
think of assembling someone's L1
to judge him someday
decimation: assessment on oath of reputable men of
the neighbourhood."
decimation: nope. as
the magna carta says: "For a
trivial offence, a free man shall be fined only in proportion
to
the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly, but not so heavily as
to deprive him of his livelihood. In
the same way, a merchant shall be spared his merchandise, and a husbandman
the implements of his husbandry, if
they fall upon
the mercy of a royal court. None of
these fines shall be imposed except by
the
decimation: williamdunne: exactly, presumably
the point of
the jury was
that
they were able
to judge
the credibility of
the witnesses because
they knew
them
felipelalli: well,
thanks asciilifeform
trinque decimation and williamdunne - I have
to go
take my wife, bye!
decimation: felipelalli:
that's a fact for a jury
to decide upon
felipelalli: decimation: I said injustice in
the meaning of someone uses a fake ID
to blacklist someone unduly, just
that.
williamdunne: A group of people you don't know without
the full information deciding whether or not
to lock you in a cage?
decimation: what's a jury
trial other
than having your wot judge your actions?
☟︎ trinque: neither wots, cops or gods can prevent
the former, and
the latter's easier
to do with a WoT
trinque: if I
take a big shit in every business deal I'm ever a part of, I'll either outsmart everyone and win, or
the shit's going
to catch up
to me
felipelalli: asciilifeform: I am convinced
the idea is broken at
the point where you can not identify someone accurately.
This could easily lead
to injustice. But I will
try more mature
the idea. williamdunne raises a good point: if you follow
the WoT, maybe someone is "good" or "trustful"
to identify others.
trinque: I mean...
this is no different
than life
trinque: there are societal benefits
to maintaining good rating
trinque: maybe someday you must maintain over a certain rating
to deal in certain spheres of influence
☟︎ trinque: and as
they are found out
they are buried in negrate
williamdunne: I'm not saying its a good idea, I just
think its interesting as an idea
☟︎ williamdunne: trinque:
The idea is
that people can do reputation exit-scams because
they can just move on
to new idents
trinque: your connections on
the wot and your ratings, and your pubkey *are* you
trinque: what's
the point of
the ID verification aside from gpg and
the wot?
williamdunne: Who verifies
the WoT? You just ignore
those you don't
trust
decimation: note
that historically passports were used
to keep people from leaving
trinque: it's social behavior
that shouldn't be policed centrally.
trinque: also should people find you using many alternate IDs,
they can negrate all of
them knowing
this
trinque: the incentive
to use one identity is
that your cred builds upon
that name
trinque: it's akin
to hoping no one ever lies again
felipelalli: can be impossible, indeed. I didn't mature
the idea. Maybe it is
true: it could be impossible.
williamdunne: It should be possible
to make it more expensive
to do so
trinque: felipelalli:
the
tool
to apply is a WoT, but you can't force people
to identify only once
felipelalli: the only flaw in
this idea is
that
there is no reliable way
to identify someone only. I understand
that. But if
there were, could be very useful
to create blacklists. Especially in Brazil where
there are many scammers
that exposes all of your personal life, and we know
their real names,
their documents etc.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: I
think he is really just looking for a way
to make sure
that each person only carries one identity, and
the best way he can
think of is a passport
felipelalli: asciilifeform: ahaha no,
that is not
the point. Maybe you didn't understand my initial motivation for
that.
trinque: not easy
to clean; going
to need
the powerful stuff
trinque: ^ what I put as
the headful of shit
felipelalli: trinque: yes,
this is
the fail asciilifeformci rises with reason.
trinque: or whatever inputs create
that identity hash
thing
trinque: felipelalli: so
then I lie about my name when I deal with you
felipelalli: trinque: a "mirror derivated user" like br-8d255152 (deriveted from my doc) would be useful only as "INPUT".
There is no output from br-8d255152.
This is useful for make a blacklist of scammers
that don't use OTC. It could be derivated from my full name, for example: "Felipe Micaroni Lalli"= br-89402f8d
trinque: felipelalli: an observation about myself: cleaning out a headfull of shit
takes
time.
felipelalli: trinque:
the "doc number" is just a way
to identify a user globally, but could be another
thing.
trinque: meaning no offense
to felipelalli, he seems
to not realize
that his reverence for said govt official who names and numbers
the people is a mystical belief
trinque: say a fool staggers in and he wants
to learn; where
to even begin?
trinque: asciilifeform: hard
to grasp how incorrectly one's been
taught