490600+ entries in 2.672s
Citizenfive: I will consider it
the compliment
that it is, in
this "country", and am grateful for it.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 23:32:14; Citizenfive: Yeah. Seemed
to have a specific reason,
too. I don't expect I'm a regular conversation
topic.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I was just pointing out
that its quite rare,
they can go at
their own pace;)
williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any backstory
to
the 'twitter' association?
williamdunne: Citizenfive: Mircea just offered you a rating, and a compliment
to go with it.
☟︎ Citizenfive: For politeness and
the convenience of
the asseteers, I will register if I stick around.
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated
to use
the rating system.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 22:45:24; pete_dushenski: heh,
this murphy douglas fellow gets it.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:18:32; kakobrekla:
thats not around.
Citizenfive: Trinique wins, with bonus points. I usually use
the bit about knowing
the name of a bird.
mircea_popescu: "Slack brings all your communication
together in one place. It's real-time messaging, archiving and search for modern
teams."
trinque: the magnetism one came
to mind because he goes from a superficial understanding of
the
thing
to a deeper and deeper description, ultimately saying "we have no idea"
trinque: Citizenfive: reminds me a bit of
the vid where he discusses magnetism
Citizenfive: The above is Feynman's favorite XKCD, and whoever can
tell me why becomes my favorite asseteer
Citizenfive: It automates collecting and remembering-correctly certain
things.
These actions were previously done in one's own head, usually with less fidelity and in ways
that required more effort or energy or whatever. Idk, I call it automation, but it doesn't really matter.
Citizenfive: I'm not prepared
to
type enough
to really explain my
thinking at
the moment
Citizenfive: But we'll get
there.
That's
the difficulty with anything.
The WoT automates some rep stuff, but doesn't automate KNOWING what really is and isn't automated, or something like
that
trinque: and
the chain of connections from
that point onward is known
trinque: you connect
to some node
that's
the all-welcoming orifice and it forwards it on
trinque: gossipd as I understand it readily supports
that
trinque: however in
the process of doing said leaking, and especially in
the process of *establishing*
trust one may want deniable messaging
Citizenfive: I guess
that, and more critically, amoung its users, I see
too much overreliance on it (which is
to say, people who don't fully grip
the CAPS&LIMS of it as a
tool)
trinque: true enough, and one might want
to know later he's dealing with
the same citizenfour as last
time
danielpbarron: the identity doesn't have
to be
tied
to a slave name
trinque: why in hell would I communicate with you using something
that requires I create a (for all reasonable measures) permanent identity
trinque: danielpbarron: say, oh I don't know, I'm deep within
the NSA... and I want
to leak some documents
danielpbarron: what's
the objection
then?
that not enough net effect yet?
Citizenfive: Without searching, if he
tells me [user X] also uses it properly, I would probably
trust
that. All subject
to
the extent
that I
trust MP's intentions and motivations, which is sorta
the point of a WoT
Citizenfive: MP appears
to know how, in his description of how
to use it he explains what it is and isn't
danielpbarron: the users who do know how
to use it "properly" are
the only users worth dealing with
Citizenfive: Right now,
too few users of
the WoT know how
to use it *properly*, so it's not super important
to me at
this
time. When
that changes, I will use it.
☟︎☟︎ trinque: take
the namesake of
this nick ^
Citizenfive: fuck's sake,
the WoT is fine, lol; it
too is a
tool
trinque: danielpbarron:
there is a place for non-WoT authenticated communication
danielpbarron: must be in WoT -- until
then, generate your own
temporary keys for "off
the record" communication
Citizenfive: The visual breaks down, but I'm amenable
to a solution
that uses both pegs in some way.
trinque: Citizenfive: it appears one of
the goals of
the gossipd network is for
the
topology of
the network
to be
the
topology of
the WoT
Citizenfive: Both are very good
tools. At present, I see many solutions
trying
to fit
the square peg of PGP into
the gaping goatse of "maintaining OPSEC in an adverse environment of well-heeled adversaries".
That is, it fits, but a large round peg, perhaps OTR, would allow less... spillage.
trinque: I want
the former without question
trinque: well
there's a distinction between saying "I am connected
to
the node I
think I am"
williamdunne: Citizenfive:
They would effectively need
to be mutually exclusive if deniability is what you're going for in any group chat setting would
they not
trinque: take
the example in
the logs above, asciilifeform is using an alternate nick while
traveling, and it appears someone decided
to spoof as him
trinque: Citizenfive: I don't
think off-the-record is what's wanted here
trinque: Citizenfive:
thanks, I will read
this
trinque: nah not
the only
thing
there, as I understand it, it opts for deniability
williamdunne: Citizenfive: my familiarity with OTR is very slim, having only used it in conjunction with jabber. But what does it offer
that GPG doesn't?
Citizenfive: Just
the RFC.
The general spirit of it is sound.
trinque: Citizenfive: read
the spec?
Citizenfive: A properly-done "better IRC" would pretty much fix most objections I have with
the current WoT, btw
williamdunne: trinque: maybe, I might just not be
thinking creatively enough
trinque: if it passes messages between nodes as described, and does
that perfectly,
that's a fantastic place
to stop,
then build separate
things which make use of
that
trinque: williamdunne: hassle
to whom?
williamdunne: trinque: Maybe, if it works well
then awesome. Will be a great
thing. But seems like it could end up more hassle
than it is worth
trinque: williamdunne: I
think
the idea is eventually
to have a full stack within
the WoT
☟︎ williamdunne: danielpbarron: What reason would
that matter in particular? All our messages are public anyway. I doubt your OS was written exclusively by a member of
the WoT (even if you did compile it yourself)
trinque: williamdunne:
tangentially related it was rather
trivial
to make point-to-point chat with gpg, awk and netcat
trinque: probably better
to design
the
thing from
the ground up eh?
trinque: you could probably make something
that was sort of like
the proposal by cramming all
the
traffic, both gossip and direct messages
through pm
trinque: williamdunne: what's
the
thought
there,
that
the messages within
the IRC protocol would be GPG messages?
williamdunne: Could many of
the same goals not be achieved by just integrating GPG into IRC?
trinque: williamdunne: good
thread in
the comments
williamdunne: trinque: Sounds good, although how would
that work with dynamic IPs?
trinque: williamdunne: of course, I'm asking a more fundamental question about "why
the hell still mostly centralized services using HTTP"
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Plenty of
things law enforcement can use
to leverage
Theymos, most prominently
the GLBSE shennanigans
trinque: am I not able
to get packets
to you myself?
trinque: williamdunne: why for example does freenode need
to be involved in
this exchange I'm having with you now?
williamdunne: Then again, I also wouldn't still be in
the US
williamdunne: cazalla: If he didn't comply straight away, it would still end up with
them
threatening him personally. I would do exactly
the same if I was in
the US. Best not
to mess with
the guys with guns
trinque: the idea
that a forum is something which is hosted in one particular place instead of distributed among its members is absurd
cazalla: BingoBoingo wrote on it, might have a better recollection of events
than i