485100+ entries in 0.297s
Adlai: (it
took a couple
tries)
ascii_field: and cannot be retrofitted without being clobbered by cpanel
the next
time it is used
to make any alteration
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: apache won't play along with python without a plugin 'mod_wsgi' which does not appear
to exist in cpanel
ascii_field: or for
that matter anything other
than pgp
jurov: trinque you were supposed
to run, not concern yourself with bitches
trinque: obvious "brought home
the wrong bitch" joke
there
jurov: and when she was sober,
there was no dog concern?
Adlai: she was all "this is not a good place for a dog" and i was all "bullshit my dog loves
this bar because it's EV patron loves dogs and my dog is lovable"
Adlai: no she exhibited sentient concern for
third party (my dog) while verifiably drunk
jurov: you mean, she exhibits ballmer peak,
thus suitable for
tech?
Adlai: the
typos resurface
thus zzz
Adlai: so,
there is hope for
the oppressed-in-tech yet!
Adlai actually spend
the alcohols chatting with a dark-skinned lady who was 100% coherent despite also partaking of alcohols
mircea_popescu: this is a problem which will have
to be solved, eventually. maybe not by us, maybe not in our lifetimes,
jurov: he can publish it on
trilema,
too. don't see how bag of disparate patches would be useful
mircea_popescu: it was going
to be a signed version of 448 lines of code
Adlai: tl;r: /me needs
to write a
thingy
that munges btc-dev into a darcs repo, jurov needs
to add a general-dev mailing list so mircea_popescu can send his apache paches, and we'll all live ethanolly ever after. ssavvy?
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:28:40; williamdunne: Maybe
there is a good reason why
this would not work, but could you not just generate an XML file
that contains
the names of all
the files, a hash of each file, and
then sign
the XML? Could be automated fairly easily and would work on
top of existing solutions
trinque: dunno enough about winfs
to say
trinque: jurov: calm down buddy; I don't have
the one
true way
trinque: I have
to run, dunno what hoon is but I'll see if I can find info on it
☟︎ trinque: relational algebra carries
the stink of SQL, and
this is unfortunate
jurov: go learn from
these mistakes
jurov: also, KDE folks
tried it in non-relational way, something kinda works but
they managed
to annoy everyone in
the process
trinque: but if
the AST of
the queries is represented as data you can find
that out by joining it against
the schema
trinque: obviously if information was lost in
the change, you cannot
trinque: lets say you alter a
table with some operation; were
that operation data, you could programmatically alter views against
the old version
to be compatible with
the new,
to some extent
trinque: mircea_popescu: what I was referring
to above is like
the system catalog in SQL
trinque: sure, last weekend was eaten by work, but I'll
try
to work it in soon
trinque: I can
then delete
the base
table and call
the new materialized
table
the canonical data
trinque: I can also easily produce a new
table which materializes
the output of some view
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Kludgy and bolted on
to original spec
ascii_field is blithering at
the sheer amount of litter
that cpanel leaves in every conceivable aspect of system
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it requires a hard guarantee you will never want more
than 10 categories at any level. << No, only on
the
top level... After
that you wade into
the horror of Cutter numbers
trinque: jurov: I cannot see how it *doesn't* solve
that
jurov: how will views solve
that in version 1 you have a name=value and in version 2 you need list?
trinque: so operations against
the system must also be data
trinque: and you can easily with something
that isn't braindead SQL imagine a model where
the canonical representation can be changed, and new views derived from
the operation
taken
to produce
the new representation
trinque: relational algebra is
the best model I'm aware of for deriving all needed representations of data
mircea_popescu: williamdunne it's exactly what it iwas, and exactly why i asked him
the question.
mircea_popescu: it requires a hard guarantee you will never want more
than 10 categories at any level.
williamdunne: Guessing some people wanted
to kick it old school and not move
to
the re-write, and
there was enough of
them
that apache updated got called apache2, but
thats just a guess
trinque: views and actions against
the reflection layer
trinque: yeah, so you need
to be able
to change structure easily
mircea_popescu: ascii_field but while we're doing
the "what dope"
thing, why
the fuck is apache "apache2"
jurov: trinque you need omniprescient entity
that declares forever usable schema
trinque: we were
trying
to build
this at my last job, and fucked it up entirely with braindead concepts from
the web space
trinque: in
the same way I declare data
trinque: I want
to be able
to declare into
that representation of structure new structures
trinque: it needs a reflection system; I want
to interrogate
the system about its structure
trinque: but it has
to know data structure and barf when it's not followed
trinque: "hm I didn't like
that change I made
to
the system" << rollback
trinque will yet have
to be persuaded
that
the relational model does not solve all
this
trinque: why is
the standard location not enforced?
ascii_field: what kind of dope had
to be
taken,
to conceive of
this ?
ascii_field: *why* is it not in
the standard location ?
trinque: the lack of a
turnkey solution here is absurd, just a shitty industry
trinque: every bakery should have
their own software
team because no real scotsman would pay someone else
to do
that
jurov: i have everything built as nginx OR apache(never both of
them) in extra process, PHP/Perl/Python in extra process(es)
ascii_field: and
that
the motherfucking cpanel
thing puts it fuck knows where
ascii_field: i was even about
to use
the apache (all i need is
to proxy
to my proggy which has own
http stack) but
then i find
that
there is no /etc/apache2
trinque: taking on
the whole goddamn space is an enormous challenge
to say
the least
mircea_popescu: the fact
that i own a gas station does in no way alleviate
the problem
that laurel&hardy cars.
ascii_field is still wondering how mircea_popescu can use
that cthonian horror, cpanel
trinque: this is why I'd like a small board for
the embedded space
that does very little, and runs a lisp
jurov: and you can not have
trilema running on php
mircea_popescu: there ISNT a bmw here. it's varnish or nginx.
that's it. not like i'm running unheard-of-software
mircea_popescu: see jurov,
the
thing is... i have
the OPTION
to not own obscure exotic cars whose maker went out of business shortly after starting because he sucked.
jurov: i have 14y old daewoo, we can split "never ever" hairs but
the end result and frustration is
the same
trinque: the changes which resulted in
the present state should be data
mircea_popescu: "musta been a different car - and - gasoline combination i guess. going back (on foot)
to gas station
trying some more combos"
mircea_popescu: "sorry honey, can't come
to dinner, i'm apparently unable
to find
the entry
to
the brooklyn bridge
today"
jurov: oh,
they did, until very recently
jurov: there's
this saying about inspiration and perspiration, you know
jurov: and i don't enjoy
that,
too. but such is life.
jurov: haven't i wrote somewhere
that every productive day ends with patch or bugreport?
mircea_popescu: it would have been cheaper
to buy a server. if i were
to bill 8 hours it'd be enough
to buy a fucking rack, and
that's for doing stuff i actually like doing.
mike_c: nginx always works. I have never been disappointed in it. Recommending shit
to people is always a -EV process, but..
☟︎ mircea_popescu: lesson learned ... do not
try
to actually use software.
mircea_popescu: finally found a way
to do
that. EXCEPT it injects random data at random intervals, i end up with "ips" like "8�b]"