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mircea_popescu: so to have closure, i suppose http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763975 should read "80 cols plox what is this" ☝︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: 'if i can't use my drum printer, i dun want yer revolution' or how did emma goldman put it..

mircea_popescu: i can't come up with any good counters.

asciilifeform: phf: i force-format my ada. this only affects indents tho

mircea_popescu: phf i've little problem with people writing code in whatever line lengths they want to. but comments of arbitrary cut are infuriating (though admittedly 80col not nearly so much as 50whatever)

asciilifeform: i.e. if function call simple, i.e. fits on 1 line -- then 1line; if not -- then 1 arg per line.

asciilifeform: and if i can't print it without indent-destroying reflow, or use of tiny letters, ditto

asciilifeform: whereas if i find myself EVER horizontalscrolling, insta-barf

mircea_popescu: i tell you if the shit was multiple lines per line i would just exudate my lungs through the skinpores on my back out of sheer fury.

mircea_popescu: oh oh oh I SEE HOW IT IS

asciilifeform: i dun write those, wtf

mircea_popescu: but i guess if emacs feels the sentence needs more random gibberish instilled who am i to not permit it.

asciilifeform: fwiw i linebreakulate by hand

mircea_popescu: why not also the interjection "you know ?" or i guess "mon"

mircea_popescu: i dunno, you want it to stuff \n in there for you.

mircea_popescu: while i watch mad max the future or whatever the fuck i'd do in this weird crapsack world

mircea_popescu: the day i want the machine to write text for me ima just buy all the girls strapons and they can fuck each other too

mircea_popescu: it is, but i was curious re what he meant.

phf: might need a screenshot, i'm not seeing that on my machine (or possibly also being dense)

mircea_popescu: phf do i have to screenshot this ?

a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 19:23 ben_vulpes: > i haven't tried this test yet << and you don't know that it only works on the feeble minded, literally anyone else is going to see exactly what you're doing and give the canned response that you want: "the patriarchy keeps women down and what is really called for is demoting and docking mens wages, and promoting science education for little girls, and generally eradicating the constructed gender binary so

mircea_popescu: phf a 120 col line will contain a number of words distriburted around 23.7 ; this means your spaces being elastic works to some degree. i will hold up trilema as an example of this, would you say elastic spaces are not working for it ?

phf: no no, the reason why i bring up space is that you basically have two things that k&s can play with: hyphenation and elastic spaces. the two are balanced in some magical way

a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 18:58 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 << "Oh really? I never guessed he was an actor. Touche." if only tlp was around...

mircea_popescu: i do not wish to see de-hyphenate or chumpa-tron split up.

a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 18:44 asciilifeform: why am i reading about e.g. '...ignorance about the lived experience of women compiler writers, say, can lead to hurtful behavior...' ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764186 << so i dutifully follow, and i duly end up on " I have a new interview question, and you can have it too: "The industry has a gender balance problem. Why is this?" [ed: see postscript]" ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i suspect at level where might well enjoy it

mircea_popescu: btw, you ever read tiganiada ? did i ask this before ?

mircea_popescu: but in any case, i'm satisfied this ass was well beaten to pulp.

asciilifeform: it's true, whether or not i restate it, lol

asciilifeform: this is again the 'i can tell gabriel_laddel from maxwell' . asciilifeform , and mircea_popescu , and any sane folx can trivially distinguish 'less malnutrited japanese' from 'mcfood-eater' transformations

mircea_popescu: the epicycles, before removal, a) had a history whcih b) was understood by the removers. the "alien problem" is how lazy jwz say "i don't want to read", by and large.

mircea_popescu: now then, back to the issue : i suspect "alien problem" is a worse than useless heuristic, in the exact sense "web metric" are a worse than useless management aid.

asciilifeform: the litmus asciilifeform lives with is, roughly: show him a pertinent item made of 'maths he hasn't learned'; is response 'hmm, lemme disappear for a week into my study and come back' or ... 'I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO !111'

a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 01:18 mircea_popescu: it should be evident that 1. i can argue for epicycles and 2. unless you're at least this tall to ride (which is -- MUCH taller than average college professor), you CAN NOT dispel them out of my hand.

asciilifeform: and i'll point out that orig term was not coined in pantsuitistan, but by ilkka k, a surprisingly sane mathematics d00d

asciilifeform: the memory gymnastics in mpi. and 'for your convenience, we will package the defective transistors separately!11' , i'll call it here

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wish to see text where this item is called "alien problem".

asciilifeform: more dangerous is the gabriel_laddel-style confusion, 'i dun need no book-larnin', classical mechanics is for squares, i'ma straight to genius and discovery'

mircea_popescu: it should be evident that 1. i can argue for epicycles and 2. unless you're at least this tall to ride (which is -- MUCH taller than average college professor), you CAN NOT dispel them out of my hand. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: hang on i'm working through them monsterlogs.

asciilifeform: and i find it especially infuriating when they slither into islands of sanity like ada

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what concerns me is the man's self-evaluator. "i went to battle with the electric fence ; i won, but..."

mircea_popescu: it's not even "i wrote something that DIDNT WORK". that, is one thing. here, he wrote something, he evaluated it as "works", BUT.

ben_vulpes: shinohai: i'll put it on the budget lolz shelf

mircea_popescu: i quoed.

asciilifeform: in any adatron that i know of

mircea_popescu: but WHY would someone involved DO THIS. it's like dentist going "and here's a squirrel i put wooden teeth into. they were plywood and didn't work very well, it's not intended for geriatric care"

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the secondary stack thing worx correctly in modern-day gnat. but i banned it. ( because it makes reading disasmed binariolade harder; reasoning about the semantics of the latter -- also harder; and consumes very scarce, on small embedded chips, memory , imho needlessly ) ☟︎

mircea_popescu: is not intended as a final implementation." (the original 80wrap braindamage has been fixed). I CAN SCARCELY APPREHEND ETC

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763745 << /me dutifully follows, and duly falls upon "2) What was not implemented until recently was functions returning unconstrained arrays. This is a very tricky thing to do, as I'll describe in a moment. The week before Tri-Ada, I added a temporary, kludgy implementation to GNAT. About the only thing it had to say for itself is that it worked, but it creates serious memory leaks. It ☝︎

mircea_popescu: yeah, i expect so. certainly they didn't go about collecting best-kim-ung's oppinions.

mircea_popescu: i don't get it, what else is there ? usg wrote its fanfic itself too.

diana_coman: asciilifeform, theoretically yes; at that time though I did not even go that far and it still proved to be wishful thinking

diana_coman: fwiw I take asciilifeform to mean the engineering approach vs current "programming" approach; that has little to do with "engineer" diploma or not,sadly

diana_coman: phf might be onto something in that functional programming was not mandatory for instance; I took the course because I wanted to but I could have had no idea of it at all even, easily

Matthew: i dont go there

Matthew: where did i speak to u at

danielpbarron: i'm dpb on efnet, but i was never in that channel

phf: wut, half the horrible code i've seen is from actual engineers. usually unstructructured reams of potato code like they were taught to write matlab or fortran

danielpbarron: i was never in that channel, btw

danielpbarron: well i don't wanna bore the channel with stuff you can easily learn from atruechurch.info

Matthew: i heard about u on EfnetNews 47

diana_coman: heh, add to that the fact that I specifically got interested in computers initially for the very promise (to my mind at the time at least) that they are... reliable; because programmable, see? such silly 17-yo mea

Matthew: danielpbarron: i was just trying to get some free cyrpto

Matthew: i wantd to talk to him

diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, not really; studied at polytechnic uni Bucharest, automation and computers i.e. electrical engineer; followed with data mining and that got totally fed up after "software engineering"

asciilifeform: phf: aha, i can always and immediately spot somebody who did not use slime or equivalent autoindenter

phf: it is habit, and convention and all kinds of easily iconoclastible things. for example i can usually recognize a proper lisp program by its shape, but those are usually written by people who have established those conventions to begin with

diana_coman: I suspect all of it, one way or the other IS a matter of habit really; it might even be that I simply programmed overall too little compared to reading non-programming (programmed at school+uni+few years after that and then ran for the hills until I got drawn back because eulora)

diana_coman: basically this would make some sense only if writing code in columns pretty much newspaper style I suppose

diana_coman: and paper+writing a lot before any need for keyboard, but I still get annoyed at multi-line stuff that is ... one thing otherwise, ugh

diana_coman: I do a lot of code-reading WITH paper + pencil; but that means more writing than printing really

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i am one of those weirdos who still does a large amt of his programming -- and the bulk of his code-reading -- on paper.

diana_coman: I do try to keep otherwise lines relatively short mainly because no reason for very long but that in code not in comments, admitted; and certainly not with some strict 80 char limit per se, true

diana_coman: asciilifeform, tbh lines chopped tend to bother me; I repeatedly tried (years/ages ago) the whole thing with 80cols, quick to read etc but... it still bothers me, what can I do; that being said, I see there long comments line not code; possibly some printfs in the tests that might be long I suppose

asciilifeform: >> '...when I look at Scheme programs that try to do more than trivial tasks, or at Scheme systems that try to give people a framework to work in, I get the "perl experience" -- heaps of ugly but useful hacks to get some short-term job done. seems to me that the flip side of the "only the most elegant are admitted" argument is that there is no lower bound on the ugliness of what is _not_ admitted, yet necessary to get there in pract

a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 19:13 phf: i was going to quote some choice naggum on guile, but it's 3 pages on xach's site, and it's very very unkind. interested parties are welcome to https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=guile

asciilifeform: comments, i suppose, can be reflowed. but CODE DOES NOT REFLOW, it destroys indentation

danielpbarron: https://youtu.be/tNXyichewJw << the link btw. i'm mentioned a little past half way

phf: yw, the process is becoming streamlined. next i need to make it pick up just new patches, rather than refresh the whole lot

danielpbarron: i guess he's gonna learn himself some ada, or lisp if anyone wants. feel free to instruct him

danielpbarron: he was asking for a job so i asked if he had tits, he didn't, so i said do you know lisp or ada

danielpbarron: !!rate jpxe 1 aspiring ADA coder i found in the l0de chan

ben_vulpes: that is one of the nicest things about this little town that i've moved to, all of the girls make eye contact and act feminine

phf: i think the second one was in the logs

ben_vulpes: hm i cannot find this wonder in the logs

ben_vulpes: yes i know, in ro ☟︎

ben_vulpes: phf: i haven't watched much television or many movies full stop

phf: or read for that matter, though i'm not sure if i prefer the book in this case.

ben_vulpes: k i guess i gotta see or read this now

ben_vulpes: > i haven't tried this test yet << and you don't know that it only works on the feeble minded, literally anyone else is going to see exactly what you're doing and give the canned response that you want: "the patriarchy keeps women down and what is really called for is demoting and docking mens wages, and promoting science education for little girls, and generally eradicating the constructed gender binary so ☟︎

phf: i was going to quote some choice naggum on guile, but it's 3 pages on xach's site, and it's very very unkind. interested parties are welcome to https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=guile ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763735 << hey i never heard that before. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 18:05 asciilifeform: i can't speak for the good doctor newton. but asciilifeform specifically ~did~ target , for extermination, 'git' & related idiocies.

esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 << "Oh really? I never guessed he was an actor. Touche." if only tlp was around... ☝︎☟︎

phf: "Oh, good evening my hackfriends! I am just chuffed to share a thing with yall: tomorrow we release Guile 2.2.0. Yaaaay!"

asciilifeform: why am i reading about e.g. '...ignorance about the lived experience of women compiler writers, say, can lead to hurtful behavior...' ? ☟︎

esthlos: I've spent the last year or so trying to figure wtf happened to computing post-symbolics. still can't see the complexity which lead to the current disaster