log☇︎
43300+ entries in 0.321s
BingoBoingo: I suspect it could be the air quality here. Very little air polution, especially of the particulate variety.
asciilifeform: to this day i have nfi why.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The beard was longer before the trendy Latino haircut. Then I had to take it down to match.
asciilifeform: ftr i imagined BingoBoingo exactly like-so (possibly with slightly longer beard)
trinque: sure, I don't think there's a republican http any more than there's a republican linux
phf: these are silly criteria for protocol ~design~, because the absolute "if we don't have it we'll die" wartime mentality lets you make infinite circles in a turing complete situations. ascii wants the buck to stop at range, i want to stop it at head, it's an arbitrary decision
asciilifeform: and it also has to be 'then WE would lose', because if it's 'heathen derps will lose', than guess how many fucks i give.
asciilifeform: and recall, we (hypothetically) are making a ~server~, not a client. so i'm looking for argument like 'if we lose HEAD, there is then NO sane way to do xyzpqr , where xyzpqr are Important and Useful Things'
asciilifeform: phf: i believe it. and even believe that phf saw it. was curious where , exactly, is all.
phf: asciilifeform: one data point is that in e.g. nginx max_ranges is a parameter, which can be explicitly set to 0 to disable ranges, and if you search for it you get "how do i disable ranges" q's presumably by people configuring web servers. you don't have an equivalent for HEAD. likewise HEAD is part of the original spec, where's ranges is a later addition. it stands to reason that the number of times range fails would be non 0 even with "modern" setups
asciilifeform: i will admit to being at a loss what 'http dht' might mean.
asciilifeform: trinque: yer thinking of moar along the lines of dht, as i understand, rather than www-style server
trinque: maybe I don't want it; I want to tell my friend I know somebody who has
trinque: I ask you whether you have the hash. Is this the same request as "give me $hash"?
trinque: lets say for a moment we're designing the http-dht-tron. I have a hash, do not have the item.
asciilifeform: so i suppose we have different personalexperiencesingoodfaith ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( and yes i get it, for existing www, it's the only working knob, aside from get-with-0 )
phf: asciilifeform: because i don't remember specific names. the experience is not uncommon, because "interrupted download, let me try restarting from the middle" fails more frequently than not
asciilifeform: why not give example. e.g. 'i crawl www and google doesn't support ranged GET' ☟︎
phf: i'm talking from personal experience and in good faith
asciilifeform: well i thought we were having an argument, with facts...
phf: no you can't, i'm not on trial here to do discovery for you
phf: so i've used HEAD before, but not in a batch process. i use it frequently for two purposes, one is to verify that the request goes through and server is prepared to send me data. the other is to request file metadata before i start pulling it, i have a curl alias for that.
asciilifeform: i dun even propose to kill HEAD because it is complicated to implement -- it isn't, as i understand. but because 'nobody but pinoys ever seemed to issue a HEAD at asciilifeform's www, in decade+' ☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: i don't dispute that http is trisomy victim. q is, can the brute be properly lobotomized and harnessed and do useful work with minimal overseering expense .
phf: i thought you're answering trinque's point
asciilifeform: what am i missing
trinque: if you tell me offset 0 range 0 I should ignore you entirely ☟︎
asciilifeform: re HEAD, i began with the observation that 10+ yrs of reading UNPROCESSED www logs of my site, shows that HEAD is issued by no human browser ever, and in fact comes solely from obvious (in other ways) malware wormprobes
phf: "please be ready to send me this 1tb file, just kidding i only want 50b of headers"
asciilifeform: the first two, get answered if i GET-and-immediately-abort . nao let's have an example of the last ?
phf: i mean, i can see the argument for "no head", but it's one of those cases where "if we don't have head, we'll have to invent it", with e.g. manifests, or cgi scripts that you can use to query for changes, etc. but why not let resource answer things about itself as part of protocol rather than everyone for themselves?
phf: last time it was brought up was probably due to me, since i was looking into hipster gopher revival that's going on (was going on?)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-23 16:20 phf: re upstack, there's been a resurgence of sorts of gopher protocol, various hipsters spinning up personal websites, etc. whether the resurgence was shortlived or i'm just late to the game, but there's already a community of wreckers (one of them groups is coming from this federated twitter platform, mastodon) discussing all the various ways that they want to "improve" gopher, tls, utf-8, markdown renderer, "minimal subset of html", etc. but at the same
asciilifeform: phf: i strongly suspect that nobody but gringo rubes ever order from these Official catalogues, or pay ANY vat, EVER ☟︎
phf: i suspect local orcs have alternative paths for procurement, was sop in russia in the 90s. you could go to "official dealer" type place and pay 10x, or you would haggle for price at Gorbushka, bazar style ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: also BingoBoingo wtf, they don't sell samsung -- i.e. the only ssd worth using
BingoBoingo: TomServo: This is why I am emailing. See if I can get that shit knocked off
TomServo: I would rather not.
asciilifeform: ( granted , i make'em out of a mix of new and used components, like mp makes his bmw fleet . but even so. )
asciilifeform: i'd even be satisfied with something exactly like BingoBoingo's link httpd but minus the nulltermed pointeristic string warcrime. (i.e. direct adaization)
trinque: anyhow, I will not begrudge a muntzed http server
asciilifeform: likewise i do not ever want to see FARTs.
asciilifeform: i want to write proggy with zero httpism baked in. is whole point of a library.
asciilifeform: trinque: that's exactly the kind of thing i wouldn't do. my hypothetical http serv would be strictly for fully adatronic app. like hunchentoot in cl world.
asciilifeform: trinque: i dun have a replacement, can relax for nao. but would like to know which of the knobs actually do something useful.
trinque: however if your replacement can't cough up arbitrary answers *about* items it serves, I wont use it
trinque: I'm just telling you tools will want things you're muntzing, so why bother trying to fix
asciilifeform: i'd like to shoot it behind the shed already.
trinque: I'm not here to defend HTTP, you are, by trying to fix it
trinque: "do I already have the item at $path" and "how big is the item at $path" are interesting questions without the server beginning to transmit the item itself. ☟︎
asciilifeform: 'sorry i only have 1 bit of storage', picture this.
asciilifeform: what other http knobs are there that, despite that neither i nor deedbot nor anything any of us have made , ever use, but somehow essential ??
asciilifeform: something that i actually keep around
asciilifeform: i'm trying to find something that does
asciilifeform: i dun see why this requires a 'send ONLY the header' special knob to exist.
asciilifeform: well naturally you wouldn't ctrl-c with hands, but break yer connection after you got what you want, i.e. the header
trinque: I will not use an item that can't give me metadata for a given path without loading the potentially gigantic item itself
trinque: I have the gentoo distfiles on http
asciilifeform: i've never written proggy that issues 'HEAD' ☟︎
asciilifeform: even in this one, i can already see obvious candidates for snippycutters
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that's more or less exactly what i was looking for, ty. not to use, of course, but to adaize.
trinque: well, it's why I always beat vendors with either other vendor quotes or other quotes from same vendor
asciilifeform: i suspect that it has better boxes than the one linked above
BingoBoingo: Still, they get an email along the lines of "I am scaling up my business here in Uruguay and need a bunch of 1U server boxes. What can you get as whole computers or empty cases? ☟︎
BingoBoingo: <trinque> BingoBoingo: when do you anticipate having a final number for 1U of space, and when do you plan on beginning to rack customer machines? << I am putting out solicitations for hardware again to the local shops today. Will squeeze in a pricing post today for the Republic's consideration.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mod6: try as i might, i can't picture how a photo would help to exploit yer box ( aside from the 'tells enemy which rack to dynamite' aspect, but mp_en_viaje addressed that one earlier ) << Ah, datacenter fellow expressed some bemused curiosity about the unbranded Qntra machine. Apparently everything else is plastered in brand names because latino rather than assembled into generic steel chicom chassis
ave1: strange that in disasm I see call <fz_...>, but will try more!
ave1: Ok I will check further into the code, bbl
ave1: So, I started to try commandline options
ave1: I was debugging the code and saw that the functions where not inlined "FZ_Clear", "FZ_*" etc.
ave1: but also adacore docs i see: http://sandbox.mc.edu/~bennet/ada/gnat_ug/gnat_ug_4.html#SEC46
asciilifeform: do i misunderstand what ave1's complaint is ?
asciilifeform: i'm not a telepath, but somehow nobody thinks to preface their observations with 'i was using gnat xxxxx, which i got from...'
ave1: i.e. when running with "-gnatwa", I get " warning: pragma appears too late, ignored"
ave1: asciilifeform, I'm reading trough chapter 2 and I've tried to get inlining to work, but so far have failed, nothing gets inlined outside of the defining module!
trinque: I would rather see a sampling of potential machines than to guess at what might be available.
asciilifeform: technically it wants ~three~ ttys, one for normal i/o, one for eggogs, one for rng
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 19:00 asciilifeform: i have 'p' structured such that all it wants i/o-wise is a 'getbyte' and 'putbyte' that operator can replace with whatever
asciilifeform: ^ for reasons unknown to me, ada's standard character i/o routines mutilate newlines. so ffacalc imports the standard unixland ones.
mod6: this may be an asinine thread i started here, but i'd rather be thinking this way - defensive, even if asinine, and then think/talk it out.
mod6: (i don't really care, just sayin')
mod6: and besides, what if i AM embarssed about our packerd bell 1U boxes?
mod6: yeah, I don't think ours will even have that anyway. BUT, the point stand that, I didn't build it; who knows what nasty pitfalls are in there.
asciilifeform: ( on every box i know of , it's a separate jack )
mod6: so, i've heard like nasty things about some of these boxes with like the lights out management thing, and whatever.
asciilifeform: hey i was curious re whether the hypothetical can be made to make sense
mod6: well, yeah, i didn't mean physically, i meant "remotely pwn"
mod6: As enemy, I may want 'em all, but I'd take one if I could.
mod6: aha. so thats why i came to "silly" conclusion. they'll just send 'em anyway so w/e.
asciilifeform: mod6: try as i might, i can't picture how a photo would help to exploit yer box ( aside from the 'tells enemy which rack to dynamite' aspect, but mp_en_viaje addressed that one earlier )
mod6: <+mp_en_viaje> if your box is remotely exploitable by photograph... << Well, thinking it all the way through, I guess it's a bit over the top. My first, kneejerk reaction is "fuck that. no pics." But ya, that may be silly.
mod6: I may yet reconsider on the pictures thing.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-28 00:34 mircea_popescu: if i want 5 boxes, what do i do now ?
mp_en_viaje: anyway ; i am still waiting for my http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-28#1777538 aswer ☝︎
asciilifeform: incidentally i also have a working example of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1644 box, which so happens is 1u high and tops my current list of 'pogolike but still in production'
mp_en_viaje: what is the problem that is being approached anyway ? i thought the tower thing was mostly from a "see rack is sized so" / art instllation perspective
asciilifeform: i even have a couplea left here
mp_en_viaje: i still have them
asciilifeform: last i knew , mp_en_viaje had the complete crate , i dun recall any mention of throwing out