asciilifeform: out of curiosity, do we currently have folx who irc via emacs ? ( ben_vulpes ? )
asciilifeform: if it dun cost much i'd surely like to retain orc glyphs.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform was going through gedankenexperiment, 'what can be jettisoned'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you dun do it in emacs, tho, afaik ?
asciilifeform: ( tho i can picture a hypothetical commonlisp-emacs that doesn't ever need to socket , because has compiler inside, like ye olde borland )
asciilifeform: phf: i dun think anybody will cry if we lose ssl. uniturds is tricker matter, e.g. asciilifeform routinely edits proggies with uniturds in'em , in ru, cn, etc, and they gotta at least display ( i'd be ok to swear off ~input~ of uniturds ) . socket of some form is prolly a must, to have either slime or anything like a replacement for it
asciilifeform: i.e. what exactly changed b/w 19 and 24 ?
asciilifeform: phf: this really calls for a ben_vulpes-on-trb-style archaeological dig
asciilifeform: ( even on my opteron, emacs is still a ~five second load , note )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was an ugly hack around the horrendously slow interpreted elisp
asciilifeform: ( and, just how much loss of load speed are we talking about, if it is thrown out entirely, and emacs gets to compile ~all~ of its elisp erry time it loads ? )
asciilifeform: phf: any idea how much this routine weighs ? what would it take to port to musl ?
asciilifeform: ( granted, a defective 'replacement for trb' will give you a reactor meltdown, whereas a climacs-like abortion will simply create grumbling would-be users who revert back to emacsism )
asciilifeform: it's about on par with full replacement of trb.
asciilifeform: but far costlier than, e.g., replacement of 'diff'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it ain't intractable, and ranks substantially below, resource-wise, e.g. replacement of gcc
asciilifeform: phf: if slime and ada mode can be made to run, it'll be a livable emacs per my lights.
asciilifeform: phf: it's a finite amt of work, that can be stretched out over time.
asciilifeform: phf: i don't have ~that~ many elisps that'd need repair.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: climacs was above a momentary wad of spit, a quite substantial amount of work was sunk into it. but it did not add up to something that can be used.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a stillborn thing, afaik.
asciilifeform: worse yet, climacs was afaik never properly finished ( the redraw is glacial, even on a heavy comp, and various pieces to this day broken ) because nobody could be arisen to properly finish it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was the philosophy that produced 'climacs', an ab initio rewrite. which afaik ~nobody uses.
asciilifeform: the gnarl begins with the fact that all of these modes, were created by different folx, with no coordination
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: emacs is a 'modal' system, i.e. every programming language gets a mode, implemented as a set of elisp proggies, that completely changes the behaviour of the editor to (ideally) make it entirely suited to writing that particular form of text
asciilifeform: eyeglass prescriptions are also in this sense 'independent and seekrit'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my current understanding , is that each emacs user alive , at some time in his life, took the thing and whittled away the spikes that his particular hands fell on most often.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: largely because idiots. however there's a number of structural problems (e.g inability to handle word wrap in anything like a reasonable way) that attract ~infinite kludge-hours from all sorts of folx
asciilifeform: in heathendom it is always either 'eh gnarly pos who needed it ever' or 'hands off my sacred animal, i'll shoot'☟︎
asciilifeform: we had no fewer than 3 'emacs is duct tape' threads here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the best object of comparison is imho trb.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: elisp is a gnarly surviver of dark age 1970s lisps, suffers -- unfixably -- from problems long ago solved even in 'scheme' (e.g. 'funarg problem')
asciilifeform: it's ~every emacsist's problem . at the same time, it is , like old arthritic pair of hands, better than no hands.
asciilifeform: phf: but unfortunately nothing like a workable replacement exists today.
asciilifeform: phf: it is 'harmful and oughta die' in same way as linux
asciilifeform: trinque: 'which emacs?' prolly deserves a thread. lessee what phf says, i bet he has an earlier one than mine
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's all yours, knock out the hanging stool whenever you feel like
asciilifeform: douchebag: it helps to learn to tell the truth, at least in spare time, as hobby. folx dun like liars. ( and yes lie is mandatory in usg/sv. but it dun win you any friends here. )
asciilifeform: douchebag: when you walked in, were all 'i'm making bank pentesting' etc. what happened to that.
asciilifeform: douchebag: this is not a catastrophe when you're 19 y.o
asciilifeform: douchebag: fully expect that it will take you yrs. you may have to learn a new profession.
asciilifeform: douchebag: i suffered from same thing for many yrs; go and find a slightly less all-consuming gulag
asciilifeform: thing is quite ripe for the trb treatment.
asciilifeform: douchebag: somehow asciilifeform , phf , et al, still able to work on interesting things ~and~ not homeless
asciilifeform: lol dropped. from my cold dead hands (tm)
asciilifeform: trinque: ( need a vintage snapshot ? i can supply. or for that matter phf has one. take yer pick )
asciilifeform: btw trinque which emacs is in your ebuildtron ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's not merely dead, but fossilized many yrs ago, all of the living users begin installation by scraping off more or less errything added since 2000 or so
asciilifeform: douchebag: you can point to any of the l1 folx, and find 1, usually several, useful things they've built. begin there.
asciilifeform: phf: dun look at me, my emacs bin reads 8 Apr 20 2013
