log☇︎
412400+ entries in 0.25s
mod6: trinque: just have to wait until next block before it shows up in the deedbot.org list?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: take me to this planet of 'healthy relationships.'
mod6: asciilifeform: sounds good. thanks for doing that.
ben_vulpes: in a healthy relationship, the consultant keeps the customer from making bad decisions in areas in which the customer has no business making decisions.
asciilifeform: mod6: it will be part of the formal release of 'v'. but for now, can use this.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6 et al: http://dpaste.com/1PHPHRE.txt << ok thanks, I can just point at the deedbot submission then.
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
asciilifeform: not unless the customer agrees.
trinque: but the consultant does.
asciilifeform: my point is that the craftsman DOES NOT GET TO REDEFINE THE JOB
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:13:22; asciilifeform: that does not work with gimp.
ben_vulpes: go talk to the cfo about the cat pictures.
asciilifeform: see also the 'gimp and photoshop' thread from a few wks ago.
asciilifeform: 'i want the boldface, italics, and cat pictures retained !!!1111'
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:00:15; trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255910 <<< this is not true. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: sometimes one goes to a cafe to meet a customer instead of demanding they come to ones office.
trinque: also this is a matter of sales, not education
trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e ☟︎
mod6: I'm currently working on the SoBA to close out the month, would like to point at the vdiff.sh that creats w/o timestamps in the document. Only reason that I bring it up. Thanks for taking a look. Wasn't sure if I missed it somehow.
asciilifeform: aha so why not also ask him to bring s-expression or fuck off
punkman: asciilifeform: customer can learn to export csv or fuck off most of the time
asciilifeform: punkman: not same thing
phf: i think gnu awk closes implicitly but a bsd one keeps the fd's open and eventually runs into open file limits
punkman: asciilifeform: trinque: go and sell 'it' if it doesn't read&write microshit excel format. i'll watch. << I've written lots of these, it's called .csv
phf: by the way that script above needs a close i.e. ... if (s) { close(s); ...
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:35:24; asciilifeform: i mean, why would i want to do ~any~ per-user work in distributing something ~for free~ ?!
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255824 << no per-user work, just a single pubkey to which anyone could find the corresponding privkey ☝︎
asciilifeform: mod6 is right, i think
mod6: bah, well disregard the above -- as this came from my orc.sh script with escaped shell vars, but you get the point i think.
mod6: so i see, obv., the one that was submitted with The Full Orchestra, but i don't see your updated one that looks like:
asciilifeform: on account of the resemblance to human programmers, engineers, and other 'slave artisans' who build civilization but are rarely seen in mercedes
asciilifeform: phf: the paper became a 'viral meme' and nicknamed 'codemonkey paper'
asciilifeform: phf: the animals were placed in a room where there was a set of levers, which, if pulled correctly, would dispense food. result was that, at any given time, a handful learned to pull the lever, but would not get to eat the treats. instead, would be beaten for non-performance by the others if they stopped.
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, qq: are you going to post the modified vdiff.sh (creation of vpatch w/o timestamps) to the ml, or will it be included with your next submission of the full working solution?
asciilifeform: ^ not even re: chimps! funny how forgot this
asciilifeform: 'Group Responses to Specially Skilled Individuals in a Macaca fascicularis Group' (Stammbach 1988)
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:40:56; phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255852 << i will let mircea_popescu explain himself, by himself, but iirc this thread began long ago with the mention of an infamous paper, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/codemonkey.pdf (mirror) ☝︎
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu potentially interesting observation: dulap has been ~50 blocks behind semi-permanently since reboot. in as far as i can tell, it is not mainly from 'blackholing' but due to cpu starvation! on account of phuctor re-grinding the product...! ☟︎
trinque: ah but who wants to be that big and bloated
asciilifeform: same reason you won't get to be 'the next exxon'
asciilifeform: usually you find that there is a reason why nobody gets to be 'next microshit' every year.
trinque: right, you're a scientist. meanwhile I'd love to have the market on traffic cones cornered.
trinque: and it farts out reports I give to my accountant
trinque: this needs no perfect solution to be better than what's available
trinque: yeah but you're thinking like a scientist
asciilifeform: 'consumer has come to expect !!'
asciilifeform: and using their dev environment and joke of an os.
asciilifeform: trinque: aha, it can ?! now you're married to microshit. because there is no way of reliably speaking the format in any and all cases except by linking their libs
asciilifeform: phf: mircea_popescu has a marked tendency to go with lenin's 'intelligentsia is not the nation's head but its arsehole'
trinque: you derive specific solutions and sell those
trinque: I could see a scheme where you make a general solution to that problem which you do not sell.
phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies ☟︎☟︎
trinque: and the tools are all shit
trinque: every business on earth needs tools to classify and count their things, and to answer useful questions with this information.
phf: there's greenblatt, tom knight, david moon, daniel weinreb, guy steele, peter norvig, abelson&sussman, jack holloway. stallman and minsky. not to mention cracauer, eller, fahlman, maclachlan, rme, ron garret of the later people that i know of, tons of people i'm forgetting.
phf: graham and naggum are probably not the best examples of lispers. graham wrote cgi scripts for clisp in vi and had unhealthy obsession with macros, did a web startup and sold it at the right time. naggum if he was a little bit dumber would've just been a kook, considering his completely insane angry rants. (and i learned a lot from naggum, but i don't think the manner of his death was a surprise)
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 14:17:13; mircea_popescu: and yes, the "scam money rots your brain" think is also a very powerful theory.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform> perhaps ben_vulpes can become the hero who makes that unicorn, a software worth paying for.. << Eulora bots.
asciilifeform: and as i gather, most of the folks involved on anything but the ultra-successful 'lottery winner' end of it, want out.
trinque: well, that seems to be the only way to amass the capital to do interesting things, at least from where I sit.
asciilifeform: it isn't especially interesting to talk about, imho
trinque: meanwhile inside the company building tools to make the crapping ever easier
trinque: could instead decide that you'll use your software powers to cynically crap out anything with a price tag.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:23; mircea_popescu: mkay. lemme explain something about markets to you. the sun is infinitely valuable, to the exclusion of all else. nobody (tm) would consider paying for it, and in no case would they pay anything close to fair value (why this is so should be thermodynamically obvious). meanwhile, ipads have no utility and go for hundreds by the million. on top of them, jackpot machine simulations sell for more $$$.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
asciilifeform: to the conversation
asciilifeform: and wouldn't know anything useful to add
asciilifeform: if there is, ~i~ certainly am not blessed with the gift of crapping it out
asciilifeform: trinque: but we have yet to establish that there is or could be such a thing as software that is genuinely worth paying for
trinque: that speaks more to the "for free" than to the work, doesn't it?
asciilifeform: it'd be like those crackpot bums who stand on street corners and beg folks to take their self-published 'book'
asciilifeform: i mean, why would i want to do ~any~ per-user work in distributing something ~for free~ ?! ☟︎
asciilifeform: but what's that get me ?
ben_vulpes: regarding the "may i" spamola, you could issue a license to a trivially-generated pubkey.
ben_vulpes: it has to be commercially viable in this wot.
ben_vulpes: oh it's even harder than that, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: perhaps ben_vulpes can become the hero who makes that unicorn, a software worth paying for..
ben_vulpes: you've not made anything worth paying for, then.
ben_vulpes: no but if they pay.
asciilifeform: ~i~ don't have time to sit and issue 'licenses' to 10,000,000 schmucks
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this is asking for mountains of 'mother may i' spamola
ben_vulpes: as, of course, verified by your signing a license to their key.
asciilifeform: but it would be an interesting ceremonial flag, in the spirit of mircea_popescu's license thing.
ben_vulpes: right, and there's why.
asciilifeform: (on a sane planet, you won't need lawsuits to enforce this. no reasonable person will run code that doesn't have a wot signature)
ben_vulpes: nah, we don't traditional courts.
asciilifeform: would be interesting to see.
asciilifeform: if anyone here has the muscles to turn this concoction into a formula which might threaten to work in traditional courts, in some major country - go right ahead.
asciilifeform: 'this program may be redistributed provided that 1) this notice and 2) the original copy of $program, with my pgp signature thereof - are included; and any changes you made to $program must be represented in the form of a vdiff patch signed with a pgp key registered in the Web of Trust.'
asciilifeform: i recently thought of an equally-ceremonial 'software license'. would go roughly like this,
asciilifeform: 'no you may not use this code, except if you piss on law'
asciilifeform: how come nobody asks how well 1958 state of the art would handle on unix ? the batch proggies, on punched cardboard ?
asciilifeform: and talking about how nifty it would be to get 1978 state of the art.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i also can't help but laugh a bit at the phrase 'modern nixy proggies' - we're sorta stuck in 1968 state of the art...
asciilifeform: lispm was only possible because 'consumers have come to expect' was not fully a thing yet.
asciilifeform: it is like asking to not only have campfire, but mammoth hunt, in the kitchen.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: afaik no one was ever dumb enough to demand this.
asciilifeform: yes, if you provisioned for this, poured concrete floor - you can.